[iknowexactly]

It's interesting how we want different things at different stages of life. I've busted ass for twenty years to get a small passive income, and stuffed my brain with about four degrees worth of knowledge.

I WANT someplace where people take their time, pay attention to each other in spheres not related to the next deal, and don't get angry because a slow driver costs them 15 seconds of commuting time.

But for sure from what I've seen America is the place to start a business, get a high salary, get leading edge education, prove yourself. Not a place to relax for me unless I had much more money.

[Saweeep]

Spain is a basket case.

It's a developing country that was put on financial steroids by the EU; it may look modern now but that is just a veneer.

I remember arriving at an airport in the 90s in Spain to find that the terminal was made of wood!!

[Elster]

I via recently came back to Spain for a shortbsta and visit:
I can see where the reasoning from OP is based on but I wold agree that he is making an all too common mistake of applying his own cultural maxims to a society not built around these.

[Baldrich]

(08-11-2016 09:32 PM)pater familias Wrote:  

(08-11-2016 08:26 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-11-2016 07:30 PM)pater familias Wrote:  

I’ve lived in Spain for a while.

Deep discussions, yes, I got them, and deeper than in the US. But for this, you need to have friends, and having friends in Spain is much more "complicated" than in the US: it takes time. In Spain, friends are for real and not just temporary acquaintances to do activities as most Americans just have. Actually, after having lived in the US for several years I came to the conclusion that Americans don’t have friends, just acquaintances. You guys move too much/too often to have any real friendships. The family component is very important, as well. It looks like you have not had

Question: how many times did you move during these ten years?

Feminism? Yes, it is exactly the same shit. Spain is importing American feminism, not the other way around. Thank you, USA.

Jobs/Career? I totally agree. If you are ambitious, get out of there ASAP.

Re: Friends -

My experience has been the opposite. For the exception of a FEW PEOPLE who I can count on on hand, I find the Spanish quite shallow. It is not uncommon to spend time with someone here and then travel abroad and have them forget you or just not care to keep in touch or send a card. I'm not discarding your experience, but my experience has been the opposite.

I agree, to some extent, about "acquaintances" in the US...but that's because we are very individualistic and love our personal freedom. We do not like to be limited to a location or "tribe". That's one of the things I really find limiting about Spain. People are obsessed with "what their family" thinks or what others think, but not enough individualism for my taste. People in many cases would rather choose unemployment instead of moving from their town. Most Spanish dress the same, eat the same, NO DIVERSITY whatsoever...very dull people in general and one thing I find really scary is that, for example, if you wear a red shirt (just an example) and one person says "oh aren't you hot with that?" I swear EVERY SINGLE Spaniard will make the EXACT same comment. It's almost like they conspired beforehand to make the same comment.

As to your question about moving, I have lived here actually more than ten years and have not moved anywhere else. But I find Spanish people like to put people in boxes. If you are American, you will ALWAYS be "El Americano" and make comments that are totally ignorant as in, if they are serving hamburgers people say crap like "oh you should feel at home, hamburgers for dinner". As if Americans only ate hot dogs and hamburgers.

I do consider myself ambitious and even the Spaniards ask me astonished "WHY ARE YOU HERE??" They are right and that is why I have decided to pack my bags and leave this place. I can get sun and palm trees in many US locations if that's an issue.

As I thought, you tried to have an American life in Spain.

Friendship: travelling abroad is fine, but you should do it with your friends, not solo. Spaniards hardly ever travel solo. It is too boring/loner for them.

Spaniards are not "obsessed" with family, they just care about it, because it is important to them. Spain is not like the US, where people divorce 300 million times and move home 100 million more. Social relationships are Spaniard’s lives.

"People in many cases would rather choose unemployment instead of moving from their town." Yup. Spaniards love their people.

"Most Spanish dress the same, eat the same, NO DIVERSITY whatsoever..." In Spain, there are Spaniards, same culture, same tastes, why the hell should they dress differently? "Diversity"? Fuck that. The only ones who want diversity in Spain are the leftards that copy the American left.

About the red t-shirt comment. It is not a conspiracy, it is just that they have the same culture, same cultural references. That would happen in every other country of the World. Actually, the t-shirt thing is more of smalltalk than anything else.

About the "el Americano" thing, I don’t know where you live, but probably in Catalonia that would have not happened (conditional on you learning the Catalan language). They are more used to immigration, more of a merchant culture there.

And yes, I also asked myself why were you there...

Living in a foreign country requires an integration effort that seems you were not ready to do. It happened to me in a couple of countries I lived. It is tough decision. Roosh recorded a video, talking about these things recently.

I hope it helped!

No, on the contrary. If one thing characterized my stay in Spain is that I DID NOT have an American life AT ALL in ANY respect. I follow all the "usual" habits. But even if I do that, many people still will consider you "the Americano".

Friendship: Yes, I prefer traveling solo. Maybe I am very American when it comes to that. Spanish people tend to do everything in packs/groups...which I find very annoying. There is no way to even go out here just to read the newspaper by yourself. You never see a woman by herself either in any bar or restaurant.

I agree about the "social relationships" too. That is why I do not think the country lends itself to being dynamic and individualistic. I find it very tribal in so many ways.

Diversity: I was referring to differences in style, tastes, opinions...everybody doing the same and eating the same and thinking the same gets old fast. Even Spanish people tell me that the one thing they find interesting in the US is how no two Americans are really alike in almost anything. Here, meet one Spaniard, you've met probably many more that are almost identical in habits, tastes, food, culture...it's just not for me.

But I insist...integration was no problem for me because I have family here and speak the language fluently and do ALL that they do. My point is that it's just not a place I'm into anymore. I don't like the mentality here. At first it was ok, it was different and in many ways refreshing to try new things. But if you have other plans/ambitions in life, Spain is not the right place.

And by the way, Spain is importing the WORST of American culture rather than the best. I could tell you that more than ten years ago, the country was actually very interesting. Now, it's not really worth it to live in - much more expensive, many more rules than before, outrageous feminism, and beta culture.

[The Beast1]

I call spaniards "Spantards" .

Of all of the Spaniards i've met, only two were worthwhile. One was originally born in Germany and the other the Canary Islands!

Small minded, not very intelligent, arrogant, and above all obsessed with some of the most vain things. The women were more miserable and surprisingly harder to game than English women.

They're all perpetual students working minimal wage jobs in Schengen.

I'll never live with Spaniards ever again nor will i willingly enter into any contract with one. It's almost certain the Spantard on the other end will break the deal and you'll be left holding the bag.

I'm 100% in agreement with the OP. Spain and it's citizens are basket cases.

Brexit happening was the best thing possible. It means them and their miserable lot have to leave because none of them do anything of value except for what 2%?

Spain is a nice place to visit once and never again.

[Baldrich]

(08-11-2016 11:54 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

It's interesting how we want different things at different stages of life. I've busted ass for twenty years to get a small passive income, and stuffed my brain with about four degrees worth of knowledge.

I WANT someplace where people take their time, pay attention to each other in spheres not related to the next deal, and don't get angry because a slow driver costs them 15 seconds of commuting time.

But for sure from what I've seen America is the place to start a business, get a high salary, get leading edge education, prove yourself. Not a place to relax for me unless I had much more money.

Good post. It depends on what you want definitely. Those things you mention -- "people not getting angry because of slow drivers" just annoy me now. Or when you are waiting in line at the supermarket and the cashier just has a conversation with the people she knows...holding up everyone else.

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 02:32 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I call spaniards "Spantards" .

Of all of the Spaniards i've met, only two were worthwhile. One was originally born in Germany and the other the Canary Islands!

Small minded, not very intelligent, arrogant, and above all obsessed with some of the most vain things. The women were more miserable and surprisingly harder to game than English women.

They're all perpetual students working minimal wage jobs in Schengen.

I'll never live with Spaniards ever again nor will i willingly enter into any contract with one. It's almost certain the Spantard on the other end will break the deal and you'll be left holding the bag.

I'm 100% in agreement with the OP. Spain and it's citizens are basket cases.

Brexit happening was the best thing possible. It means them and their miserable lot have to leave because none of them do anything of value except for what 2%?

Spain is a nice place to visit once and never again.

ABSOLUTELY. I just had this happen to me, in fact. The owner of the old apartment I was renting still owes me 80 miserable euros and now he comes up with excuses like "ohh sorry I had to fumigate the apartment for the new tenants, bla bla" what THE F do I care? There are MANY other examples of what you say.

The best Spaniards I've met have been Canary Islands as well or Catalans. And I've met hundreds and hundreds of people here because of the nature of my work. I can't think of more than about 5 worth my time.

"They're all perpetual students working minimal wage jobs in Schengen." QUOTABLE. I'm going to steal your quote because it is the truth. The fly around Europe and can't even muster the courage to fix their own pathetic system. If Britain had the level of unemployment Spain has, there'd be massive riots. The country would be burning. So would the US. Here? Oh no. "Mami and Papi" will fix everything and if that fails, they can always go to the "abuelo" for help. Pathetic.

If you ever teach English in Spain you will see how small minded most of the country really is...and not small minded in a good way...just plain ignorant.

Spain is a really popular destination so lots of people will be angry when we criticize it but this is the truth for many people who just don't bother to write about it.

[atlant]

Quote:

But even if I do that, many people still will consider you "the Americano".

Welcome to every fucking country in the world outside the USA.

Southern Europeans being family oriented and having rigid social structures is hardly news. Getting friends and girls is tough but once you do, they tend to be fiercely loyal.

Don't work a Spanish job and Spain is fantastic. Ideal for anyone who is location independent.

[britchard]

It's pretty well known that Southern Europeans (definitely the Spanish) have some of the most laid back lifestyles on the planet, especially for first world countries.

Why do you think Greece, Spain and Portugal are in such bad financial trouble? They wanted to keep the lifestyle of a 30 hour week, retire at 55, and spend all their time in cafes and restaurants.

They're not inherently lazy as a race or group of people, but their culture encourages it.

The only group I feel sorry for in this whole thing is the Catalans. They make up 20% of Spain's GDP, despite only being 15% of the population, and they work hard.

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 03:10 AM)britchard Wrote:  

It's pretty well known that Southern Europeans (definitely the Spanish) have some of the most laid back lifestyles on the planet, especially for first world countries.

Why do you think Greece, Spain and Portugal are in such bad financial trouble? They wanted to keep the lifestyle of a 30 hour week, retire at 55, and spend all their time in cafes and restaurants.

They're not inherently lazy as a race or group of people, but their culture encourages it.

The only group I feel sorry for in this whole thing is the Catalans. They make up 20% of Spain's GDP, despite only being 15% of the population, and they work hard.

Yes...the Catalans are definitely the most productive and serious in Spain in my experience. No wonder they want independence! They are also much more freedom loving and not as "herd mentality" as the rest of Spain in many regions. Even in Christmas, most Spaniards who travel solo will only be Catalan. All the other Spaniards will be "in mei vilash guith mei femili".

[kirdiesel]

Finally someone who tells it how it is!!!!!!

Ive never been to Spain but finally someone who drops some real experiences on how it is. This man has had 10 years of experience in Spain and I believe every word he is saying. I have been in Germany for 5 years and have experiences some of the same things you mentioned. It seems it is better here especially in terms of making money and moving ahead in life. As a math major why dont you move here and make some big bucks? They are always looking for people like that here and you don't even need German!

Thanks for your input bro.

[Lime]

There is the topic about crime in Latin America and how to solve it: thread-57405.html

A common opinion in that topic is that many things are because of the 'defeatist' attitude.

My take is that this 'defeatist' attitude has partly Spanish/Iberian roots. Take a look at how for example toilets look in Spain vs more northern European countries! I don't want to derail this thread with the crime topic in Latin America, I'm just wanting to point out that that 'defeatist' attitude might have Spanish roots.

See: http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-the-spa...epreneurs/

Excerpt:

Quote:

Many say the Spanish are just lazy, but that's not it. There's something else, intangible, that's developed in the culture and history. The children of Spain aren't raised to follow their dreams. School has become, for the most part, just a place for passing exams, never for debate, discussion or critical thinking. Your curro, or job, is to endure from nine to nine, pushing buttons until the next break. A history of civil war and a 39-year dictatorship, followed by a construction boom and crash, to now, where it's taken for granted that politicians will be corrupt, has led to a nation that's devoutly proud of being Spanish, but that can't define what that even means.

Other examples: in Germanic languages such as English we have words for 'delinquency' and 'crime'. In Spanish these words exist as well. Interpretations vary slightly, though.

Beating somebody up, for example, is seen in Germanic languages as a 'crime', and rightly so. In Spain, this might be seen just as a 'delinquency'.

With regards to stealing, people are much more lax. For example: in the city where I lived, in Spanish discotecas, jackets were stolen all the time. If you reported that to the bouncer, he said: "just steal another jacket then"! Unheard of in Germanic countries.

[Saweeep]

I'm afraid Spain never recovered from Queen Bess's encounter with their Armada.

Never get in too much debt to the Jews or your country can be ruined for 500 years!

[britchard]

Also, I've noticed this after only about 3 weeks of learning Spanish, but Spaniards talk with a fucking annoying lisp compared to other Spanish-speaking countries.

[The Beast1]

(08-12-2016 03:10 AM)britchard Wrote:  

It's pretty well known that Southern Europeans (definitely the Spanish) have some of the most laid back lifestyles on the planet, especially for first world countries.

Why do you think Greece, Spain and Portugal are in such bad financial trouble? They wanted to keep the lifestyle of a 30 hour week, retire at 55, and spend all their time in cafes and restaurants.

They're not inherently lazy as a race or group of people, but their culture encourages it.

The only group I feel sorry for in this whole thing is the Catalans. They make up 20% of Spain's GDP, despite only being 15% of the population, and they work hard.

Strangely enough, i've met Italians and Greeks here in London who have been nothing less than stellar. Highly professional and on point. It's probably why they're here.

Most of the Spaniards i've met were academics and students which probably explains their miserable behaviour.

Chalk this one up to the deplorable souls who hang out near academia whether professional or student.

Still, I'm distrustful of most Spaniards. I've been fooled one too many times.

[Rocha]

Stop with the nonsense Britchard.

This thread turned into a bashing of Spaniards and Spain. Would be good to read the opinion of one of our Spanish members.

Though never lived in Spain I travel frequently there (5, 6 times per year, sometimes more) for both fun and work. And of course they are not perfect people, but very rarely do I got a bad interaction with someone. To me it seems a simple case where the OP is "burned" or jaded by the many years living in there. The willingness and will to progress in life and experiment new cultures/ways of life is a healthy thing. Should not be turned into some negative thing blaming the Spaniards for your frustrations. I feel the same about where I live, and can tell you that if you find Spaniards shallow and passive, the Portuguese are has shallow and much more passive.

To Britchard, the previous post I can say from personal experience that is utter rubbish.I work in a multinational environment and the UK branch is the joke of the company. British professionalism is a myth, that is why nowadays Britain is importing people worldwide to do the jobs, because the brits do not want to work. Do not come here telling that all those migrants are muslim scum living on welfare, because while that can be true with the current wave of migration and many of the old migrants, hospitals are packed with foreign workers, spanish, portuguese or pakistani doctors and nurses, and company offices filled with Poles, Ukrainians, Spaniards...etc.

As for Germany, I can tell that they are masters in not assuming their faults and in making apologies. When I go to Germany the office environment is much more relaxed and less stressful than in my southern european country.
For your knowledge Portugal is the number one european country inOCDE country where people work more hours. It is also the european country with most non remunerated working hours. The huge Public sector machine, EU dictatorship, corrupt system and incompetent leadership is the main factors holding these countries back. People in Spain work hard, that is reason for the unemployement, when you have a person working for one and a half. Do not know about Greece, though I think that they fit better the stereotype you wrote

[stavastano]

Totally disagree with the OP. Lived in Spain for 1 year.

Politics are actively debated. What they probably don´t accept is to be lectured by a foreigner. Just like any american wouldn´t.

Comparing american and anglo women to spanish is nonsense. Spanish woman are much, much better. In every department. American woman are like man. They are a complete turnoff. All the filth invading spanish woman minds come from england and US. I don´t even go to movies with girls so much in order for them not to see the american brainwashing crap.

You call america a democracy? How? Hillary Clinton is the wife of an ex-president. George W. Bush the son of an ex-president. America is an oligarchy. If Trump wins. Then maybe I´m wrong.

American food is shit. Just like all the other anglo countries.

He´s right about the lack of ambition. But that´s because Spain expelled the jews. And wether we like to admit or not the fuckers are ingenious. Also the exchange of information and service associated with them. There´s also a lot of red tape and bureaucracy.

This is not a bad thing though. You can easilly standout in the sea of mediocrity. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Be the fucking king. Open a school a business or whatever. But stop complaining. Your an 1 hour flight from Paris, London, Berlin, Rome. What´s stopping you?

What the OP didn´t mention and to me the most severe sin in southern countries is envy. Envy is the most corrosive sentiment in this countries. People will rather loose if it means their neighbor looses even more. They don´t want the other to succeed. And this is critical in all relationships. There´s not the idea if the other is doing good I should learn from him to get better also. The principle is if the other is doing good I hope he fails and will do everything in my powers for it to happen. But here´s where the jew mentality of the anglo countries are superior. Even though you pay the price in everything else.

[Lime]

(08-12-2016 07:21 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

This thread turned into a bashing of Spaniards and Spain. Would be good to read the opinion of one of our Spanish members.

The best of a culture is usually the worst as well.

Good points about Spain (inexhaustive):

-Very open towards foreigners in nightlife, very friendly nightlife in general.
-Family oriented.
-Proud of their country.
-Not bashing their own culture.
-Cannabis smoking is tolerated, mostly.
-Cheap living.
-Good climate.
-Siesta.

I suspect alcohol drinking at lunch and bad eating habits sap away productivity as well. It is not widely known but Spaniards are among the ethnic groups that drink the most in Europe. And sweets for breakfast? Come on, that's asking for insuline dips. So your proposition about working many hours might be true, but productivity in these hours might be lower.

[Beirut]

Every country has pros and cons, and with time the pros wont shine as bright and the cons will annoy you more and more.

Its the same with women.

That said, I disagree about OPs logic.

You are not more of an individual in the US. You are simply more distant from others. You may or may not prefer that, thats another issue.
To me, the sight of an american suburb is the furthest thing from individualism ive ever seen. It depresses me. And i actually quite like the US. But i dont know how you can say "no two americans are alike".

To have deep conversations, you have to have a deep relationship. Friendship or otherwise. Looking as an outsider, i dont think one could place either the US or Spain as superior in that regards.

Secondly, no offense at all ment since its not like i hold a better position, but to hear you talk about job and ambitions and lack of it, i had assumed you were on your way to be the next Elon Musk. You cannot really criticize a country for "being perpetual students on minimum wage jobs" when your job is private tutoring. That to me is pretty much the cliche job for a perpetual student on minimum wage. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing. Some people find happiness in a more relaxed life, others in the pursuit of wealth.

I realise im coming off as personnaly harsh but i think you would benefit from some more self criticism. You even mocked them because they spend christmas with their families! Thats ridiculous.

I Havent seen you admit or reflect upon anything that you might have done wrong, or just didnt do enough of.

[britchard]

(08-12-2016 07:21 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 03:10 AM)britchard Wrote:  

It's pretty well known that Southern Europeans (definitely the Spanish) have some of the most laid back lifestyles on the planet, especially for first world countries.

Why do you think Greece, Spain and Portugal are in such bad financial trouble? They wanted to keep the lifestyle of a 30 hour week, retire at 55, and spend all their time in cafes and restaurants.

They're not inherently lazy as a race or group of people, but their culture encourages it.

The only group I feel sorry for in this whole thing is the Catalans. They make up 20% of Spain's GDP, despite only being 15% of the population, and they work hard.

Strangely enough, i've met Italians and Greeks here in London who have been nothing less than stellar. Highly professional and on point. It's probably why they're here.

Most of the Spaniards i've met were academics and students which probably explains their miserable behaviour.

Chalk this one up to the deplorable souls who hang out near academia whether professional or student.

Still, I'm distrustful of most Spaniards. I've been fooled one too many times.

That's a case of selection bias. You most likely met the most successful and highly motivated Italians and Greeks in London, your average 30 hour per weeker isn't going to be working in London.

Academia is just a mess in general.

(08-12-2016 07:21 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

Stop with the nonsense Britchard.

This thread turned into a bashing of Spaniards and Spain. Would be good to read the opinion of one of our Spanish members.

Though never lived in Spain I travel frequently there (5, 6 times per year, sometimes more) for both fun and work. And of course they are not perfect people, but very rarely do I got a bad interaction with someone. To me it seems a simple case where the OP is "burned" or jaded by the many years living in there. The willingness and will to progress in life and experiment new cultures/ways of life is a healthy thing. Should not be turned into some negative thing blaming the Spaniards for your frustrations. I feel the same about where I live, and can tell you that if you find Spaniards shallow and passive, the Portuguese are has shallow and much more passive.

To Britchard, the previous post I can say from personal experience that is utter rubbish.I work in a multinational environment and the UK branch is the joke of the company. British professionalism is a myth, that is why nowadays Britain is importing people worldwide to do the jobs, because the brits do not want to work. Do not come here telling that all those migrants are muslim scum living on welfare, because while that can be true with the current wave of migration and many of the old migrants, hospitals are packed with foreign workers, spanish, portuguese or pakistani doctors and nurses, and company offices filled with Poles, Ukrainians, Spaniards...etc.

As for Germany, I can tell that they are masters in not assuming their faults and in making apologies. When I go to Germany the office environment is much more relaxed and less stressful than in my southern european country.
For your knowledge Portugal is the number one european country inOCDE country where people work more hours. It is also the european country with most non remunerated working hours. The huge Public sector machine, EU dictatorship, corrupt system and incompetent leadership is the main factors holding these countries back. People in Spain work hard, that is reason for the unemployement, when you have a person working for one and a half. Do not know about Greece, though I think that they fit better the stereotype you wrote

I didn't mention anywhere that Brits are the epitome of the 'hard-working, northern European' stereotype. Neither did I ever mention Muslims or Eastern Europeans, which you strangely have.

'People in Spain work hard, that is the reason for the unemployment, when you have one person working one and a half'. What a load of rubbish. In that case, how come the economy in Spain is so bad? Don't blame the EU, Spain is one of the few countries that actually has a net benefit from being in the EU.

Your post is just as anti-British as mine was anti-Spanish. If we're so unprofessional, how come our economy is so much better than yours?

Our offices are not filled with Ukranians, Spaniards and Poles. Load of nonsense. There is a large Polish community in the UK, but they most work blue-collar jobs. From my personal experience, most Spaniards here are usually involved in science or research. Ukranians I have no clue.

[RexImperator]

Greeks work the most hours per week in Europe:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarth...fographic/

[Rocha]

(08-12-2016 08:03 AM)britchard Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:21 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 03:10 AM)britchard Wrote:  

It's pretty well known that Southern Europeans (definitely the Spanish) have some of the most laid back lifestyles on the planet, especially for first world countries.

Why do you think Greece, Spain and Portugal are in such bad financial trouble? They wanted to keep the lifestyle of a 30 hour week, retire at 55, and spend all their time in cafes and restaurants.

They're not inherently lazy as a race or group of people, but their culture encourages it.

The only group I feel sorry for in this whole thing is the Catalans. They make up 20% of Spain's GDP, despite only being 15% of the population, and they work hard.

Strangely enough, i've met Italians and Greeks here in London who have been nothing less than stellar. Highly professional and on point. It's probably why they're here.

Most of the Spaniards i've met were academics and students which probably explains their miserable behaviour.

Chalk this one up to the deplorable souls who hang out near academia whether professional or student.

Still, I'm distrustful of most Spaniards. I've been fooled one too many times.

That's a case of selection bias. You most likely met the most successful and highly motivated Italians and Greeks in London, your average 30 hour per weeker isn't going to be working in London.

Academia is just a mess in general.

(08-12-2016 07:21 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

Stop with the nonsense Britchard.

This thread turned into a bashing of Spaniards and Spain. Would be good to read the opinion of one of our Spanish members.

Though never lived in Spain I travel frequently there (5, 6 times per year, sometimes more) for both fun and work. And of course they are not perfect people, but very rarely do I got a bad interaction with someone. To me it seems a simple case where the OP is "burned" or jaded by the many years living in there. The willingness and will to progress in life and experiment new cultures/ways of life is a healthy thing. Should not be turned into some negative thing blaming the Spaniards for your frustrations. I feel the same about where I live, and can tell you that if you find Spaniards shallow and passive, the Portuguese are has shallow and much more passive.

To Britchard, the previous post I can say from personal experience that is utter rubbish.I work in a multinational environment and the UK branch is the joke of the company. British professionalism is a myth, that is why nowadays Britain is importing people worldwide to do the jobs, because the brits do not want to work. Do not come here telling that all those migrants are muslim scum living on welfare, because while that can be true with the current wave of migration and many of the old migrants, hospitals are packed with foreign workers, spanish, portuguese or pakistani doctors and nurses, and company offices filled with Poles, Ukrainians, Spaniards...etc.

As for Germany, I can tell that they are masters in not assuming their faults and in making apologies. When I go to Germany the office environment is much more relaxed and less stressful than in my southern european country.
For your knowledge Portugal is the number one european country inOCDE country where people work more hours. It is also the european country with most non remunerated working hours. The huge Public sector machine, EU dictatorship, corrupt system and incompetent leadership is the main factors holding these countries back. People in Spain work hard, that is reason for the unemployement, when you have a person working for one and a half. Do not know about Greece, though I think that they fit better the stereotype you wrote

I didn't mention anywhere that Brits are the epitome of the 'hard-working, northern European' stereotype. Neither did I ever mention Muslims or Eastern Europeans, which you strangely have.

'People in Spain work hard, that is the reason for the unemployment, when you have one person working one and a half'. What a load of rubbish. In that case, how come the economy in Spain is so bad? Don't blame the EU, Spain is one of the few countries that actually has a net benefit from being in the EU.

Your post is just as anti-British as mine was anti-Spanish. If we're so unprofessional, how come our economy is so much better than yours?

Our offices are not filled with Ukranians, Spaniards and Poles. Load of nonsense. There is a large Polish community in the UK, but they most work blue-collar jobs. From my personal experience, most Spaniards here are usually involved in science or research. Ukranians I have no clue.

Percentage of native people working long hours is not synonim with excellent economic indicators.

Economic indicators are not synonim with quality of life/income/inflation.

OP wrote that you can live comfortably with 1000€ in second tier Spain. How much do you need in 2nd tier UK? Not to mention horrible girls, weather and food.

You sure did not mentioned that Brits are the epithome of Hard-working northern europeans, but you implied that southern europeans are lazy, or have a lazy culture, wich is no more than stereotyping. With whom do you want me to compare when you have the England flag in your avatar? I am no anti-Brit at all, amazing people comes from those Islands. Just pointing out some truths.

On the offices jobs I may have exaggerated due to my experience. Of course I do not know all the offices. But know some Ukrainians and poles who work white collar. Many Portuguese too.

[Vronski]

(08-12-2016 08:36 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

Percentage of native people working long hours is not synonim with excellent economic indicators

Right. The French work the least amount of hours per year in the world but according to a data from the OECD, France is n°2 (after Germany) in a ranking of the world's most productive employees - and are actually more productive per hour worked than Americans.

[scrambled]

(08-11-2016 01:33 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

In the US, there may be a lot of idiots, but you have many more options if you REALLY look for it and want to have discussion on this or that topic. There are forums and groups for everyone there.

Name these "forums and groups"--not internet ones like this, which are international, but real life ones in the United States, as such as better than Spain. Roosh's attempt to have even one day of meet ups ended up in their cancellation in the US.

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you can really live a relatively comfortable existence (NO LUXURIES THOUGH) for about 1000 euros/month. That may sound nice, but of course, the salaries are among the lowest in the world. You can easily work (as is my case) for 40 hours per week and make 1000 € net pay. So you get "free" healthcare (you pay for it and your employer through taxes, so it's not really "free"). Rents are cheap where I live.

Job changes are difficult in Western Europe because of the difficulty of firing people; this has been known for some time and is a 'package deal' for most countries. The cost of living ruins higher salary thing is almost universal and applies to the US as well.

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3. Shallow culture. If all you like is sun, party and tapas, sitting outside all day and drinking beer or whatever, then yes, by all means come to Spain. But for me there are other things in life. [cut the rest of long-winded emotionally driven fallacies]

As opposed to Americans, almost half of whom pay no income tax! Nothing could be as shallow as the Walmart / McDonalds thing we have going on here.

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4. Women: Women here are just as feminist if NOT MORE than in the US.

Offer evidence or argument for your statement-- sounds totally bogus, in not impossible. They aren't nearly as obese, for one thing.

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5. Climate: People tell me oh but the weather where I'm from in the US is terrible, but so what? USA has a climate for all tastes: you can get tropical, Mediterranean, continental....it's a non issue for me at this point.

Fallacious comparison, they are the same but different?

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6. No true democracy: Yes, yes, I know the US system "sucks" for many people and probably a lot of guys here will tell me it's terrible over there but trust me, when you see how Spain's political system works you will think the US is a paradise when it comes to legitimate representation.

Sounds like you don't grasp the concept of the hot blooded and more fatalistic Spanish temperament; despite living there for 10 years.

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The country is majority Beta, certainly not Alpha in any way.

Misuse of terms, applied to an entire country's population.

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The difficult thing for me is going to be finding a job in the US. Getting hired over there seems to be much tougher for my profile.

You can't be that young if you worked abroad for ten years, but you did not realize you have contracted yourself a bit; I thought Spain was the economically backwards place that doesn't appreciation ambition? Like the above poster, I at first thought you were some entrepreneur inventing new things when you are just teaching your native language in a rather comfortable western European country, a country of which you seemed to have learned little from.

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 03:43 AM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

Finally someone who tells it how it is!!!!!!

Ive never been to Spain but finally someone who drops some real experiences on how it is. This man has had 10 years of experience in Spain and I believe every word he is saying. I have been in Germany for 5 years and have experiences some of the same things you mentioned. It seems it is better here especially in terms of making money and moving ahead in life. As a math major why dont you move here and make some big bucks? They are always looking for people like that here and you don't even need German!

Thanks for your input bro.

No problem. This is the truth for many people who have LIVED here as opposed to just coming here for 2 weeks as a tourist.

With regard to your question about Germany, at this point I have decided to just go to the US. I can always come back when I want.

@lime:

ABSOLUTELY. Spaniards hate it when they are compared to Latin Americans, but the truth is that a Spaniard, whether he likes it or not...a born and raised Spaniard culturally DOES have more in common with a Mexican than with a Canadian or German. That's another one of the problems I neglected to mention about Spain: a really false sense of superiority with respect to Latin Americans. Many , many Spaniards mock the "Latino" accent...when Spain would be the Mexico of Europe if it were not for all that European Union money.

The defeatist attitude is definitely real. Franco lasted FORTY years in power and nobody did a damn thing about it. Fidel Castro FIFTY/SIXTY years of Castroism and Cuba is very similar to Spain...passive attitudes, the "qué será será" that I find absolutely annoying and just unacceptable.

And yes, THEFT is VERY common here and is seen as normal. I was robbed by North African thugs ages ago in Madrid and the police said "why were you out walking alone so late"? RIDICULOUS. The police here are a joke too but that's another story for another time.

Almost all tourists to Barcelona have been robbed at least once and the authorities don't do anything about it. There are countless stories of this all over the place so I need not belabor the point.

@Rocha:

I never said your interactions will be "bad". Most Spaniards are actually pretty good at faking they like you...kind of like the stereotype about "passive agressive" regions in the US. All I am saying is that just because it LOOKS like a happy place with sun and beaches, it is not all fun and life here can be very depressing as well. I am not blaming anyone for frustrations - simply pointing out to the fact that I'm done with Spain. There is nothing wrong with that and I am entitled to not like Spain. It seems with some people that any criticism of Spain turns into a highly charged issue, as if some blasphemous beliefs were being uttered.

With regard to Portuguese, DEFINITELY. But my post was about Spain, not Portugal. Portugal is much, much worse.

People in Spain work hard, but working hard is stupid if you are not productive. Spaniards are not productive and DO NOT CARE to fix the system. That is my criticism of Spain. People just DON'T CARE. They know they are not productive but look at the politics. STILL no government. What kind of "serious" country is that?

@stavastano:

So you lived in Spain for ONE YEAR versus me for MORE THAN TEN. Who has more experience? Right.

Politics are "debated". If you call what you see in Spain a "debate", then I'm sorry but you have never seen a real debate. Here after 4 minutes discussion, you are either labeled "facha" or "rojo" and not much else gets said. C'mon this is so easy to see unless you yourself are a poor debater or don't come from a country where there are good and real debates. Can you name anything close to Oxford Union debates in Spain or US Parliamentary College Debate teams? NO, you can't because it doesn't exist here.

So they don't like "being lectured by a foreigner". But they sure like to dish it out against foreigners. At least Americans don't openly bash you in your presence. If you teach here, they will speak like you do -- they will say to your face "American food is shit" (it isn't, that's just your ignorance coming out)...America has WAY MORE VARIETY of food for ALL tastes than Spain could ever dream of. ALL ingredients are available for a wide range of cuisines. Try finding some "exotic" ingredients in a normal Spanish supermarket.

If any American insulted an immigrant's food in a professional work setting, that American would be fired on the spot. In Spain? Not only will they act unprofessionally in a work environment, but their bosses will ALSO agree. It's the "old boys network" here all the way.

Spanish women? You must be joking. They are LOUD, dress SCANTILY and are just as feminist as any American or British girl. At least in Britain or the US they aren't so hypocritical when it comes to going out with a guy. Hint: there's a REAL reason why Spanish men are so thirsty for Northern European women. Better attitudes, better looks, less complexes. I find many more Spanish women closer to a man--lots with really short hair or tattoos, loud...AWFUL language using cuss words...even South American women point this out. You clearly don't know Spain well.

Did I say America was a "democracy"? It was never meant to be. It is a Constitutional Federal Republic...a representative system. Yeah, Bush and Clinton...how about Reagan? How about BILL Clinton? Or Lincoln? Many presidents have had humble origins. In Spain? You can't name ONE. NOT ONE. Oh, sorry, yes you can: FRANCO the dictator.

You say: "American food is shit. Just like all the other anglo countries."

That's just an ignorant statement that doesn't even need a response. See above.

I do have my own business here and yes I agree you can stand out DEFINITELY. But I can always get that when I want. Planes exist. I don't need to be close to Paris...or Berlin or Rome. If you live well, 8 hours flight makes no difference to a 2 hour flight. Nothing is stopping me, but when you live in a country for so long you start to mature about it and see it for what it really is.

ENVY: ABSOLUTELY. Spanish are EXTREMELY ENVIOUS. No disagreement there.

I feel like you need to live in Spain longer to appreciate what I have posted.

@Beirut:

I disagree about individualism. In the US the individualist is respected a LOT MORE than anywhere in Europe, to be fair, not just Spain. Even in places like Ireland, standing out is not well seen. Europe is far more intolerant of individualism than the US. That's why non-conformists and dissidents fled this place and went to America.

Suburbs: Right, ok. I agree but not ALL of the US are suburbs. We have cities and towns too, you know?

No two Americans are alike because if you were to ask a group of Americans about a comment on your dress, you'd get different responses. In Spain, people are much more fashion victims and will definitely have more of a herd mentality. Those are not just my words...a LOT of thinking Spaniards say the same. It is called "borreguismo" in Spanish. Look it up and you will see plenty of posts written by Spanish people about that national trait.

You say: "You cannot really criticize a country for "being perpetual students on minimum wage jobs" when your job is private tutoring. That to me is pretty much the cliche job for a perpetual student on minimum wage. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing. Some people find happiness in a more relaxed life, others in the pursuit of wealth."

No, because in my case it is the business I run...so I make a salary above the minimum wage. Precisely this is why I meet so many people here and can have the authority to speak on these matters.

I did NOT mock Spanish for spending Christmas with their families. I mocked them because MANY do it just out of PRESSURE and "el qué dirán" (what others will think) than personal feeling.

Things I did wrong? When you have a purpose, when you are clear, when you know what you are talking about, that's what's important. Nobody is perfect. I am sure there may be mistakes, but why dwell on the personal negatives?