[Baldrich]

scrambled Wrote:

Name these "forums and groups"--not internet ones like this, which are international, but real life ones in the United States, as such as better than Spain. Roosh's attempt to have even one day of meet ups ended up in their cancellation in the US.

Oh I was just referring to hundreds of clubs and organizations that exist in the US for people of ALL persuasions. Just look at any college club list or civil society. There are THOUSANDS. Not here in Spain...good luck with that. Try starting a book/reading club in Spain. LOL.

scrambled Wrote:

Job changes are difficult in Western Europe because of the difficulty of firing people; this has been known for some time and is a 'package deal' for most countries. The cost of living ruins higher salary thing is almost universal and applies to the US as well.

I agree. But that's why you get crap jobs for the most part and an unwillingness to be flexible. Also, in the case of Spain, you really think it's difficult to fire people? ALL contracts now are temp contracts and they can most definitely get rid of you when they want and THEY DO. Do you really think employers here follow labor laws? You're having a laugh!

scrambled Wrote:

As opposed to Americans, almost half of whom pay no income tax! Nothing could be as shallow as the Walmart / McDonalds thing we have going on here.

Right, because Spaniards all pay taxes right? What a joke. Not even their mafia-corrupt politicians pay any taxes! Have you ever done business in Spain? I highly doubt it because this is the country known for not paying VAT...since they don't do receipts in exchange for a lower price.

Walmart, Mcdonalds? You must be hanging out with the wrong Americans...I don't know any American who hangs out all the time at Walmart or Mcdonalds. Do you suggest more edifying stores in Spain? I can't wait!

scrambled Wrote:

Offer evidence or argument for your statement-- sounds totally bogus, in not impossible. They aren't nearly as obese, for one thing.

Err...you have PLENTY of posts about Spanish women from different men right here on rooshvforum.

scrambled Wrote:

Sounds like you don't grasp the concept of the hot blooded and more fatalistic Spanish temperament; despite living there for 10 years.

Maybe so. The beauty of this is that I don't HAVE TO "grasp" it or rather, live with it. I'm a free man. But I do grasp it and precisely that's why I can criticize it.

scrambled Wrote:

Misuse of terms, applied to an entire country's population.

There is a reason, as I said earlier, why any Alphas in Spain LEAVE the country. Heck NOT EVEN THE KING studied here!

scrambled Wrote:

You can't be that young if you worked abroad for ten years, but you did not realize you have contracted yourself a bit; I thought Spain was the economically backwards place that doesn't appreciation ambition? Like the above poster, I at first thought you were some entrepreneur inventing new things when you are just teaching your native language in a rather comfortable western European country, a country of which you seemed to have learned little from.

I'm not too young but still at a youngish age. I'm not inventing things but I do run a business here and pay myself a salary...which is more than what I could say for more than 70% of people here. And I do not only teach English...I teach other subjects as well and guess what? Most of my students for those classes aren't even Spanish! I have learned a lot here...all the things as to why nobody with ambition should bother with this place. I don't think you really know this place.

[Vronski]

(08-12-2016 09:04 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

I find many more Spanish women closer to a man--lots with really short hair or tattoos, loud...AWFUL language using cuss words...

Yeah, that is pretty much the image I have of spanish women.

This girl is repulsive (too bad as song is quite good):

[Rocha]

I feel you Baldrich. Just get out of Spain and move on. If you keep thinking like that you will feel that you wasted 10 years of your life, wich is not something good or positive that you will bring to your future.

Try not to come here in 10 years and bash on the US and americans too.

My friend moved to Switzerland after 10 years (also as you) living in Spain.
He tripled his income (though with more expenses) but he dearly regrets nowadays having abandoned Spain and the "good life" in there for the rich, dull and boring Switzerland...

[Sp5]

I recently lived in Spain for several months, in the south. I am older, have reasonable Spanish but don't have things like subjunctive tense mastered.

It is true that Spanish run in packs, more like schools of fish. One hour the town square is empty, the next it's packed with families and groups. The restaurant hours and siesta rule street life. Forget about eating at the American lunch at noon or dinner hour of 6pm.

Had no luck with Spanish women, they run with their own and could not find an attractive one to date. My own fault to some extent, did not break into the groups and approach enough, did not follow up on every possibility. Ended up dating easier Russians, Brazilians and a Moroccan.

People were more or less friendly. On the lower end of that it is a correct formal politeness. On the upper end, people engage in lengthy conversations and make you feel welcome. I was able to discuss a lot of things, like the indefinite government formation process going on, without rancor and in depth. Social equality is high, so service people like bartenders have less obsequious servility and more genuine friendliness.

Cultural resources and the social opportunities attached to those were great. There is always a festival, seminar, concert, or exhibition going on. Nightlife is great, goes on all night. Cops not heavy handed, do not hassle people, but very low crime. Weather was close to perfect.

Spain has a per capita GDP of about $35,000, the UK about $41,000, the USA about $55,000. Despite this, public infrastructure was superior to that in the USA. Good airports, roads, high speed rail, and public transportation. Free wifi on city buses. Cause they're not spending money on wars and nuclear weapons.

Because Spain is an agricultural and fisheries powerhouse, perhaps no better place in the world to eat healthy. Always outstanding selection of fruits and vegetables, meat and fresh fish in municipal markets and supermarkets. Great products like iberian ham and varieties of cheeses. Bakeries everywhere. Excellent wines, as known, but also growing beer culture with local microbreweries.

It's a more settled, less dynamic culture than the US, but if you put ambition aside or are location-independent, an excellent place to live. I plan to go back there. I predict the OP will, too, after a few years of making bank in America.

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 09:27 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

I feel you Baldrich. Just get out of Spain and move on. If you keep thinking like that you will feel that you wasted 10 years of your life, wich is not something good or positive that you will bring to your future.

Try not to come here in 10 years and bash on the US and americans too.

My friend moved to Switzerland after 10 years (also as you) living in Spain.
He tripled his income (though with more expenses) but he dearly regrets nowadays having abandoned Spain and the "good life" in there for the rich, dull and boring Switzerland...

But that's just it Rocha. Depending on your lifestyle and personality, that's what matters. For me, I much prefer dull and boring, but rich. What can I say? Sue me?
I just don't dig the whole "fiesta, siesta" repeat, lifestyle. I prefer a much more serious approach to life.

I've bashed the bad things about America many times, MANY MANY times. But when I did the comparison, I can now say confidently that Spain is just not for me and many others who think likewise and who have similar ambitions or styles.

@Vronski:

Actually that one is not too bad in comparison to what you will find in the street on a daily basis. And the nice looking ones have terrible attitudes. One thing that WILL help you though is if you are foreign and speak English. They LOVE that. But even so, I'd tread carefully. Spanish women are just not worth my time or effort. I much prefer Scandinavians.

[Lime]

I find these cultural analyses topics very interesting. There should be more of these topics on RVF, about Brazilian culture, Chinese culture, Russian culture, et cetera.

Just be mindful that the bad things are more emphasized than the good things in these discussions. Sometimes the reverse is true (maybe if talked about Eastern Europe or Russia): then the good things are too much emphasized in spite of the good things. Finding the 'balance' in stressing the good or the bad aspects of cultures is difficult.

And Baldrich:

Quote:

Oh I was just referring to hundreds of clubs and organizations that exist in the US for people of ALL persuasions. Just look at any college club list or civil society. There are THOUSANDS. Not here in Spain...good luck with that. Try starting a book/reading club in Spain. LOL.

Completely true! But come to the European countries UK and Netherlands: student clubs of all kinds.

@Sp5

Quote:

Despite this, public infrastructure was superior to that in the USA. Good airports, roads, high speed rail, and public transportation. Free wifi on city buses. Cause they're not spending money on wars and nuclear weapons.

Or cause our hard earned EU money? .

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 09:40 AM)Lime Wrote:  

I find these cultural analyses topics very interesting. There should be more of these topics on RVF, about Brazilian culture, Chinese culture, Russian culture, et cetera.

Just be mindful that the bad things are more emphasized than the good things in these discussions. Sometimes the reverse is true (maybe if talked about Eastern Europe or Russia): then the good things are too much emphasized in spite of the good things. Finding the 'balance' in stressing the good or the bad aspects of cultures is difficult.

And Baldrich:

Quote:

Oh I was just referring to hundreds of clubs and organizations that exist in the US for people of ALL persuasions. Just look at any college club list or civil society. There are THOUSANDS. Not here in Spain...good luck with that. Try starting a book/reading club in Spain. LOL.

Completely true! But come to the European countries UK and Netherlands: student clubs of all kinds.

I don't doubt it. Northern Europe is WAY MORE CULTURED and dynamic than Southern Europe. They actually understand the meaning of true debates, as opposed to shouting matches.

[britchard]

Spain (currently) is the perfect country for retired couples. A relaxed lifestyle, great weather, nice food, reasonably cheap.

But for anyone who is up and coming? I think the 45.6% (forty five point 6) youth unemployment rate speaks for itself. If there were those rates in other countries, there would be a huge inquest or initiative to boost job opportunities; otherwise you'd have to deal with youths rioting. But it seems like the Spanish aren't doing anything.

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 09:53 AM)britchard Wrote:  

Spain (currently) is the perfect country for retired couples. A relaxed lifestyle, great weather, nice food, reasonably cheap.

But for anyone who is up and coming? I think the 45.6% (forty five point 6) youth unemployment rate speaks for itself. If there were those rates in other countries, there would be a huge inquest or initiative to boost job opportunities; otherwise you'd have to deal with youths rioting. But it seems like the Spanish aren't doing anything.

Right and they won't do anything...just like they did relatively nothing for 40 years of Franco. It's the same old passive attitude....defeatism at its worst.

Spain is perfect, as you say, for retired couples or to have a good time for a cheap price. Sure, I will always say that. If you want parties, excellent weather in most places for most of the year, by all means come to Spain. But I was taught there is more to life than games, laughs and parties. Spain is good if you have an apartment here and can come when you want (which is my case). But anyone else who has any good plans for their professional and personal improvement should get the hell out. Everywhere you go here, young people are dreaming to leave. Go to the dentist, tell them you're from the US, immediately they say "I wish I'd live there!" or "I've got family there, best thing that ever happened to them, now they just come here on vacation"...you get the picture. Spaniards are leaving in droves as well, not just "mean anglo Americans" who are critical. Spanish people are even more critical of Spain, so to those here who criticize me for talking about the negatives, they clearly haven't been hanging out around young Spanish people who trash the place and make me look like a tamed village priest in comparison.

[Rocha]

@sp5

That was an excellent post and very unbiased observations. I think we, and specially young fellows like myself, tend to have a perspective of a country biased by the level of success with the local ladies. Great that you did not fell for that.

@Baldrich

Where did you get that Northern Europeans are more cultured and interested in debates/politics?
Walk around in Stockholm or Bremen for an hour and you will see 95% of the people with f***ing headphones in thwir heads and staring at their smartphones, completely out of reality.
Also that aculturement that you speak, is not synonim with political correctness?

And let me just ask how do you rate your success with spanish chicks vs northern european chicks (or americans for the matter)

@lime

No, not because your "hard earned EU money" for sure. Spain recovered well from the Franco Era right after his death, and there was already some infraestructure. Mind that Spain only joined the EU in 1986, Franco died 10 years before. Also another note is that I do not recall for example any automotive industry in the Netherlands, whereas Spain is ranked 8th in the world by car manufacturing countries.

[Baldrich]

Rocha pid= Wrote:

@Baldrich

Where did you get that Northern Europeans are more cultured and interested in debates/politics?Walk around in Stockholm or Bremen for an hour and you will see 95% of the people with f***ing headphones in thwir heads and staring at their smartphones, completely out of reality.
Also that aculturement that you speak, is not synonim with political correctness?

And let me just ask how do you rate your success with spanish chicks vs northern european chicks (or americans for the matter)

Because most of the people I have had the most interesting debates with as well as seen the associations they have are Northern European. People are walking around with their headphones? Nice! Sounds like they mind their own business. I do the same in Spain...walk around with headphones. Better listening to some music as opposed to some people round these parts. Walking around with headphones doesn't prove your point about lack of debate. What's the connection between listening to music on your headphones and debating when needed? The two are not mutually exclusive.

No, not political correctness.I was referring to general culture. Northern Europeans are much more culturally aware than Spaniards. Spaniards are also VERY politically correct when they know they have to or in the things they already know not to discuss.

When it comes to success rate, here's the deal:

Spanish women are more into long-term marriage BS. So my success rate will often be about how well I can lie to them...which is pretty good. But that being said, I'm just not really into Spanish chicks. I don't like loud and obnoxious attitudes as well as the constant nagging against men so prevalent here. Spanish women tend to constantly nag and annoy their husbands/bfs. That's why the attitude here of men is so passive.They let their women scream their heads off and get all moody while they go out and take a walk.

Northern European women: I always score if interested.

By the way, there's a Spanish guy who writes about how awful the women here are. If you can read the Spanish, read this - SPANISH WOMEN are much more likely than the men to suffer a fit of rage - no, no anglo conspiracy here. Just a SPANISH newspaper reporting the facts:

http://www.elperiodicomediterraneo.com/n...59989.html

Here are SPANISH MEN giving an opinion on the awful women here. Priceless -- they compare their raspy voices to truck drivers, critique how they all smoke like there's no tomorrow and their aggressive manly attitudes. THAT'S THE REAL SPAIN if you care to read: Note how all SPANISH men are unanimous on the women from Spain. Awful:

http://misandria.info/f2/insoportable-fo...olas-1765/

[Elster]

I've made the hobo maths,if you take away the fact that sleeping outside is less likely to kill you and *some* cheaper fresh sea food;Germany is cheaper living than Spain

[Lime]

(08-12-2016 10:57 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

@lime

No, not because your "hard earned EU money" for sure. Spain recovered well from the Franco Era right after his death, and there was already some infraestructure. Mind that Spain only joined the EU in 1986, Franco died 10 years before. Also another note is that I do not recall for example any automotive industry in the Netherlands, whereas Spain is ranked 8th in the world by car manufacturing countries.

"Spanje heeft met 15.554 kilometer het grootste snelwegennetwerk van Europa. Het meeste asfalt is in de jaren negentig met Europese subsidies, naar schatting zo'n 90 miljard euro, aangelegd."

Spain has with 15.554 kilometers the biggest highway network of Europe. Most of the asphalt is constructed in the 1990s with European subsidies, estimated to be around 90 billion euro

Source: http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/5009/Archief/a...lweg.dhtml

For a big part it is money well spent, though .

[stavastano]

(08-12-2016 11:15 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Rocha pid= Wrote:

@Baldrich

Where did you get that Northern Europeans are more cultured and interested in debates/politics?Walk around in Stockholm or Bremen for an hour and you will see 95% of the people with f***ing headphones in thwir heads and staring at their smartphones, completely out of reality.
Also that aculturement that you speak, is not synonim with political correctness?

And let me just ask how do you rate your success with spanish chicks vs northern european chicks (or americans for the matter)

Because most of the people I have had the most interesting debates with as well as seen the associations they have are Northern European. People are walking around with their headphones? Nice! Sounds like they mind their own business. I do the same in Spain...walk around with headphones. Better listening to some music as opposed to some people round these parts. Walking around with headphones doesn't prove your point about lack of debate. What's the connection between listening to music on your headphones and debating when needed? The two are not mutually exclusive.

No, not political correctness.I was referring to general culture. Northern Europeans are much more culturally aware than Spaniards. Spaniards are also VERY politically correct when they know they have to or in the things they already know not to discuss.

When it comes to success rate, here's the deal:

Spanish women are more into long-term marriage BS. So my success rate will often be about how well I can lie to them...which is pretty good. But that being said, I'm just not really into Spanish chicks. I don't like loud and obnoxious attitudes as well as the constant nagging against men so prevalent here. Spanish women tend to constantly nag and annoy their husbands/bfs. That's why the attitude here of men is so passive.They let their women scream their heads off and get all moody while they go out and take a walk.

Northern European women: I always score if interested.

By the way, there's a Spanish guy who writes about how awful the women here are. If you can read the Spanish, read this - SPANISH WOMEN are much more likely than the men to suffer a fit of rage - no, no anglo conspiracy here. Just a SPANISH newspaper reporting the facts:

http://www.elperiodicomediterraneo.com/n...59989.html

Here are SPANISH MEN giving an opinion on the awful women here. Priceless -- they compare their raspy voices to truck drivers, critique how they all smoke like there's no tomorrow and their aggressive manly attitudes. THAT'S THE REAL SPAIN if you care to read: Note how all SPANISH men are unanimous on the women from Spain. Awful:

http://misandria.info/f2/insoportable-fo...olas-1765/

American cuisine? English? Are you kidding?

Name me an american dish? Or anglo?

You manage to call a fried fish with chips a dish...

Spain: Paellas, Tapas, sangria. Southern europe cuisine is the best in Europe if not the world. Northern food is horseshit.

They had a war you tool. A civil war which devastated the country in the 40´s. How´s that for a fucking political debate??? The wounds are not healed. Also I once heard politicians are people with unhappy marriages. Spanish people who live with around 5-10k´s/month have the best life in the world. They don´t care for politics. Because they´re life is good.

So what they had Franco? Dictatorships are exclusive from Spain? Hitler was from Sevilla...

Spain and latin americans. Sure. English don´t treat americans with a hint of superiority? All empire capitals have a complex of superiority towards their ex-colonies.

You go to north of Europe or US to earn cash. Not to increase your quality of life.

The el que diran is what keeps woman in check. Southern europeans don´t go to Eastern europe or northern europe because woman are better. They go there because they are EASY. They are easy lays. Period.

The best crop of spanish girls is taken when they have 18 years old. Only pshycotic leftovers are single when they reach 30.

Travelling 8 hours and 1 hour is the same for you?

As for the rest of your posts. The only question I have is why did you live there for 10 years if it´s so fucking awful?

Also Spain is so diverse. Basques, Catalans, Andalucians, Islands. How can you put all these people into the same package and generalize.

As for people criticizing their woman. The grass is always greener and all that shit. But spanish woman are clearly superior to americans. In every possible form. When was the last time you´ve been to the US?

South america is a shithole because of the US. Spain has no influence in zone of the world for a long time. Everyone knows SA is the backyard of the US.

I see an ignorant here but it ain´t the spanish people.

We always criticize our culture. That´s what makes the west the best civilization in the world. But you´re talking a lot of trash here.

[Rocha]

(08-12-2016 11:28 AM)Lime Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 10:57 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

@lime

No, not because your "hard earned EU money" for sure. Spain recovered well from the Franco Era right after his death, and there was already some infraestructure. Mind that Spain only joined the EU in 1986, Franco died 10 years before. Also another note is that I do not recall for example any automotive industry in the Netherlands, whereas Spain is ranked 8th in the world by car manufacturing countries.

"Spanje heeft met 15.554 kilometer het grootste snelwegennetwerk van Europa. Het meeste asfalt is in de jaren negentig met Europese subsidies, naar schatting zo'n 90 miljard euro, aangelegd."

Spain has with 15.554 kilometers the biggest highway network of Europe. Most of the asphalt is constructed in the 1990s with European subsidies, estimated to be around 90 billion euro

Source: http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/5009/Archief/a...lweg.dhtml

For a big part it is money well spent, though .

"Ass or cash, nobody rides for free" - West Indian Archie

Spain is a big market for the other older EU members...

[Beirut]

Quote:

Things I did wrong? When you have a purpose, when you are clear, when you know what you are talking about, that's what's important. Nobody is perfect. I am sure there may be mistakes, but why dwell on the personal negatives?

So you would rather dwell on a countrys perceived negatives, over which you have no power, than to dwell on your own personal negatives, which you can work on, have the power to change, and who would make you a better man?

[Rocha]

Not trying to make you like Spain. Its perfectly.clear you do not fit in there, and are better off somewhere else with less soul. Spain probably does not like you too.

As for the articles, I found them simply rable and they made me laugh.
the below quote of the second article is totally false, much more likely a russian lady will leave you if you ran out of money than a Spaniard. Just check out the divorce rates over there.

" 3) Las españolas no aguantan las crisis. España es un país donde se vive bien y la mujer no está acostumbrada a padecer, por lo que a menudo el matrimonio salta por los aires con la primera mala racha que llega. Si se atraviesa una crisis económica fuerte y las deudas se amontonan, la española suele verse superada por las circunstancias y dice: “Ya no aguanto más. Quiero el divorcio”. Pero una rusa ha crecido con dificultades y se ha acostumbrado a salir adelante, por lo que considerará una mala racha pasajera lo que a una española le parece un problema insuperable motivo de ruptura."

[ElFlaco]

(08-12-2016 07:21 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

Would be good to read the opinion of one of our Spanish members.

Would it really? The keenest observers are usually outsiders with some kind of substantial interaction with the host society.

This has quickly turned into one of my favorite threads on the board. I've never been to Spain but virtually everything that OP Baldrich has described about Spain applies as well to Latin America, where I have lived for a decade. For example, no ambition. Try Roosh's 'What Is Your Project?' test and you'll get an answer like 'my goal for the next year is to paint my bedroom'.

If you visit a country on vacation, or party there for a year (I did both of these at first), or work in an international company where you don't have to build a business or interact directly with local clients or government, or you don't have to build a social life with friends/family who aren't foreigner-seeking groupies, your experience by definition is limited. That's fine, of course -- in some ways the best of both worlds -- but you aren't getting a complete picture. This is doubly true if you aren't highly fluent in the language.

[pater familias]

A lot has been said in this thread. I just will make some comments:

"Diversity": when you have a real culture, you don’t care about others', you just work for yours. The need of diversity is for rootless, shallow, people. French-Spanish-Italian food is the best in the World. Period. Why should I care about fucking Chinese shit, tacos, stupid sauerkraut, or spicy indian crap? When I want that, I take a plane.

PS: which percent of meals Americans eat them with their hands OR plastic tools OR while walking OR not sat down?

Women: the feminism here is mostly political. Spanish women are orders of magnitude thinner than American/Anglo. And I repeat: 100% of feminism in Spain comes from ABROAD. Spain has NOT generated any feminism, ever. Don’t blame them for that.

Everybody is the same? Only in Catalonia there are SEVEN political parties in the parliament. And all of them matter. Bi-party system? They don’t know about that. American democracy is a joke, my friends. America is a lobbycracy, not a democracy. Of course they don’t have clubs in college: they have them outside, my friend. Spaniards have a live outside college during college years, Americans don’t.

And I have to disagree here, Americans are much more similar among them than Spaniards: 55% of Americans live in suburbs. Exciting! So much diversity in their lives!

Economics: yes, they are risk-averse. Country is ruined because of real estate bubble. And they cannot change the country because young people are a minority. Spain is kidnapped by their elders.

[Rocha]

I think your post is correct in the limited experince of someone who does not lived permanently in a place. But an insider can give a constructed and critical think thank as an outsider, just need to not be biased, there are the love phases and hate phases, probably Baldrich did not have the same opinion in the first years, and it changed along the time. A guy tired of the souless northen europe can find the plus of Spain amazingly overwhelm the minus, a another guy can be disgusted with the minus. Some locals for sure hate Spain and want to get out of there, many love it. If for example was local and had troubles fullfiling my manly needs, then go to another place and got laid like a champ, then I would find that place awesome whitout even.questioning the flaws (the love phase). OP seems to want to fullfil his.intelectual needs and does not manage to do it in Spain (hate phase).
Many inside guys can make an unbiased analysis not taking into account his personal needs.

Definitely I would like to read the opinion of a Spanish guy.

I speak Spanish as good as a native.

[semibaron]

Many of the complaints mentioned here could be applied to most countires of the world in comparison to the US.
What I always find very interesting when talking to Americans, that they don't realise that the US is a very special place.

This "herd mentality" described here, like going back to your family on christmas even if you don't like to, is the norm basically everywhere. People care about what the people around them think. You do not turn simply away from people once you know them. I would call this healthy social relationships. So this "issue" can be found in Europe, Africa, Middle East, Far East, Latin America. Well, everywhere.

If I would have to rate Spain on the Individualism - Conformatism scale for the whole world, Spain would be halfway from the middlepoint towards the individualism extreme (which is the US). Spain is actually far away from Conformatism, if compared to the rest of the world.

[Baldrich]

stavastano Wrote:

American cuisine? English? Are you kidding?

Name me an american dish? Or anglo?

You manage to call a fried fish with chips a dish...

Are you an American? You sound like a resentful Continental European living in the US.

"I" don't decide what the names of dishes are nor did I say anything about "fish and chips" (that's British by the way, not American) although let me remind you that Spain ALSO has fish and chips in the South...particularly in Cadiz.

Look, I'm not going to waste my time arguing about cuisine because if that is the measure of how you rate a country, then you are most shallow indeed. What you say about Southern European cuisine can be said about Latin American or North African or Middle Eastern...it doesn't mean SHIT. Those countries would still be third world hell holes for the most part...DESPITE their cuisine, so I'm not really sure what you are trying to prove here.

It's also a matter of taste. Do you really think everyone like paella and sangria and tapas? NO.

stavastano Wrote:

They had a war you tool. A civil war which devastated the country in the 40´s. How´s that for a fucking political debate??? The wounds are not healed. Also I once heard politicians are people with unhappy marriages. Spanish people who live with around 5-10k´s/month have the best life in the world. They don´t care for politics. Because they´re life is good.

Pathetic nonsense. What the hell does that have to do with anything? I know my history...and it was NOT IN THE FORTIES. READ. The Spanish Civil War was from 1936-1939. You're welcome. Guess what genius? My GRANDMOTHER escaped the Civil War in Spain. What "wounds are not healed"? OH RIGHT! I get it: you mean the ones that the government REFUSES to heal because this is the only country in Europe with TWO HUGE monuments to fascism - one in Madrid, arco de la victoria, the other in Valle de los Caidos. Oh and of course, all the graves of people who were murdered and with which no historical memory or justice has been done.

Their life is good? Tell that to all the unemployed and to the people you see eating from trash bins near Mercadona or sleeping on the streets of Madrid and Barcelona. And who the hell was talking about debating the Civil War?? I was referring to SIMPLE debates about everyday affairs that in any other normal country or rather, sorry, civilized country are debated with ease and normality. NOT HERE.

Dictatorships are not exclusive to Spain but they are certainly NOT something you will find in any English speaking country. Sorry, but that is fact. No English speaking country has had a dictator in CENTURIES...except England with the brief period of Cromwell. Europe, even in the 20TH Century has had their fair share. But that's also irrelevant to my earlier points. You brought it up so I am answering you.

English do treat Americans with some superiority, yes -- but they are much much better at hiding it in a professional setting. Read what I said.

You can't have a good quality of life (not for me) if your professional and academic goals are not met and if you don't have money. Why? Because then you end up like Greece and Spain -- "living la vida loca" and expecting those "awful mean serious anglos with no good food" to fucking pay for your siestas and excessive holidays. I'd love to see the quality of life in Spain if there were no EU handouts. It'd be back in the 60s with rampant poverty and even more unemployment.

stavastano Wrote:

The el que diran is what keeps woman in check. Southern europeans don´t go to Eastern europe or northern europe because woman are better. They go there because they are EASY. They are easy lays. Period.

Of course...but so are Spanish WOMEN when they go to London. How seedy is that? So at home many pretend to be really good girls and then they get on a plane to Paris or London and act just as sleazy as those "bad English" you hate so much.

stavastano Wrote:

Travelling 8 hours and 1 hour is the same for you?

Not the same numerically but it makes no difference to me in terms of making a decision about where to live.

stavastano Wrote:

As for the rest of your posts. The only question I have is why did you live there for 10 years if it´s so fucking awful?

You didn't read what I said apparently. In the beginning I fell for the easiness of life in Spain...but it gets OLD fast and nothing ever changes for the better in a professional or academic sense. That was my point and I said that IF, and ONLY IF, you have other ambitions, this isn't the right place to be long-term.

You also neglect to mention that MANY SPANIARDS agree with me and can't wait to leave. Are they also mean and vicious Germans or hordes from the North?

stavastano Wrote:

Also Spain is so diverse. Basques, Catalans, Andalucians, Islands. How can you put all these people into the same package and generalize.

Trust me, you don't know Spain more than me. As I said before I HAVE FAMILY here so I know! I have some Catalan origins and I have even mentioned how different it is in Catalunya. I LOVE it up there and go often. I was talking about living in Spain generally, not in those specific regions, although Andalusia is the worst for me.

stavastano Wrote:

As for people criticizing their woman. The grass is always greener and all that shit. But spanish woman are clearly superior to americans. In every possible form. When was the last time you´ve been to the US?

I go TWICE a year, EVERY year. So I know what's going on and still think American women are nicer than Spanish women as a whole.

stavastano Wrote:

South america is a shithole because of the US. Spain has no influence in zone of the world for a long time. Everyone knows SA is the backyard of the US.

No. South America is a shithole BECAUSE of Spanish culture. Even LATIN AMERICANS will tell you that the reason they are really fucked up is because of shitty Spanish empire's legacy. At least the English knew how to colonize well. Do you really think that SA would be in better shape if Spain was still controlling them? PLEASE. That's the joke of the day. Spain cannot even manage its own internal affairs politically (that's why Catalans WANT OUT and I support them) let alone control other people's problems.

Everything you say just shows how much you hate America...but see that's the difference. I don't "hate" Spain....I limit myself to pointing out its deficiencies. Why don't you open a post about American deficiencies? Unlike insecure you, it won't offend me in the least bit. You seem personally touched by this. Are you Spanish? Are you a Med?

------------------------------

elflaco Wrote:

Would it really? The keenest observers are usually outsiders with some kind of substantial interaction with the host society.

This has quickly turned into one of my favorite threads on the board. I've never been to Spain but virtually everything that OP Baldrich has described about Spain applies as well to Latin America, where I have lived for a decade. For example, no ambition. Try Roosh's 'What Is Your Project?' test and you'll get an answer like 'my goal for the next year is to paint my bedroom'.

If you visit a country on vacation, or party there for a year (I did both of these at first), or work in an international company where you don't have to build a business or interact directly with local clients or government, or you don't have to build a social life with friends/family who aren't foreigner-seeking groupies, your experience by definition is limited. That's fine, of course -- in some ways the best of both worlds -- but you aren't getting a complete picture. This is doubly true if you aren't highly fluent in the language.

Definitely. Spain and Latin America are VERY similar despite what Spanish racists will tell you. The only thing that helps Spain is the fact that it is in Western Europe, receives a ton of European Union money and has American military bases. It is in the US interest to make sure it doesn't go to hell. But this country would never be stable and would be like Mexico were it not for those factors. And if you walk around any Spanish city, the streets tend to be very dirty and smell of urine. People have "botellon" (they DRINK IN PUBLIC in parks, massive crowds of youths) and then urinate on doorways, sidewalks...you name it. Definitely not a behavior you would see in Switzerland or many parts of central and northern Europe.

pater familias Wrote:

A lot has been said in this thread. I just will make some comments:

"Diversity": when you have a real culture, you don’t care about others', you just work for yours. The need of diversity is for rootless, shallow, people. French-Spanish-Italian food is the best in the World. Period. Why should I care about fucking Chinese shit, tacos, stupid sauerkraut, or spicy indian crap? When I want that, I take a plane.

Again, I was referring to diversity of styles and thoughts, not culture. US had no diversity (culturally speaking) until recently. But it always had diversity in terms of individualism. Your statement "French-Spanish-Italian food is the best in the world PERIOD" is shocking to me how categorical, absolutist and ignorant it sounds. There are MANY other cuisines which I find just as good (if not more). This is the typical cultural arrogance I was referring to about many Southern Europeans. Do you expect to be taken seriously with those kind of statements about food? Calling Chinese food "shit" or "spicy Indian crap", dismissing entire nations just because YOU don't like their food. Wow wow...

Many Americans eat on the go, you're right. Americans don't live to eat. They eat to live. That's another fundamental difference - if all you care about is living to eat, then you are shallow. There is more to life than food. Enjoy your paella every single Sunday with the same people in the same village for a century though. Keep it.


Women: Spain didn't generate feminism, but like everything else, it has DEFINITELY COPIED IT INTENSELY. You gotta love the Spaniards. They shit on American culture but COPY IT and fill the place with Mcdonalds, Starbucks and Burger Kings and guess who the customers are? SPANISH. HAHAHA. "Oh I hate American food" but you sure love Mcdonalds. Fucking hypocrites.

You wear American CLOTHING BRANDS. MAKE YOUR OWN. If you guys are so talented as you claim to be, why don't you make your own stuff?

Spain not only copies, but imports and copies the WORST aspects of US culture. Not the good research universities, not the Scientists, not the respect for the individual...no,no,no....the worst aspects: petty regulations, fast food restaurants, feminism....people seem to love it here...THE MOVIES. Not a single Spaniard I have met prefers their own cinema - they ALL like and prefer AMERICAN cinema. Why is that? Aren't you guys so cultural? Give me a break.

You say America is a lobbycracy. Sure...because money is not necessary in Spain right? What's so good about having 7 parties if none of them can govern anyway and you have to ask Europe for permission on sneezing?

Spain has NO CLUBS either inside or outside college. Catalunya certainly is a bit different in this regard, but try starting a reading club in Madrid. Tell me how it goes.

You say 55% of Americans live in suburbs. So do many Spaniards. Not as high as that, but all you have to do is see what people do in the Summer and not much diversity of activity either. You all have the "abuelo house" in the village and go there in the Summer or on the weekends...you eat with the same people day in day out, nothing going for you when it comes to dynamic change. And that's fine, if you like that that's OK. But my original point was that it's not for me.


I agree with you on the economics part.That's depressing too. Basically you have a country filled with old people, a very LOW BIRTHRATE (well , you do have lots of Muslims breeding) but the Spanish birthrate is among the lowest in the world, no future at all, no prosperity, no jobs and young people hanging on by a thread from "abuelo's pension". What a sorry state of affairs...and what's even sadder: nobody is doing anything to fix it.

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 01:20 PM)semibaron Wrote:  

Many of the complaints mentioned here could be applied to most countires of the world in comparison to the US.
What I always find very interesting when talking to Americans, that they don't realise that the US is a very special place.

This "herd mentality" described here, like going back to your family on christmas even if you don't like to, is the norm basically everywhere. People care about what the people around them think. You do not turn simply away from people once you know them. I would call this healthy social relationships. So this "issue" can be found in Europe, Africa, Middle East, Far East, Latin America. Well, everywhere.

If I would have to rate Spain on the Individualism - Conformatism scale for the whole world, Spain would be halfway from the middlepoint towards the individualism extreme (which is the US). Spain is actually far away from Conformatism, if compared to the rest of the world.

I AGREE with you -- the US is an exceptional place. That's why I have said in this thread things about Europe too, as a whole. From what I gather, Europeans just don't really like non-conformists or dissidents or people who stick out too much. I much prefer the American way of turning away from people I don't care for. That's freedom to CHOOSE who I associate with and under what terms. There is always some pushy pressure as you describe. Although, I must say, England is quite similar to America in the family sense.

[Baldrich]

(08-12-2016 11:50 AM)Beirut Wrote:  

Quote:

Things I did wrong? When you have a purpose, when you are clear, when you know what you are talking about, that's what's important. Nobody is perfect. I am sure there may be mistakes, but why dwell on the personal negatives?

So you would rather dwell on a countrys perceived negatives, over which you have no power, than to dwell on your own personal negatives, which you can work on, have the power to change, and who would make you a better man?

What I have said is clear: I move on, I fight to win. There is no need to dwell on personal negatives. Why bother? You seem obsessed with personal failure and mistakes. We learn from the mistakes, of course! Of course! And we move on. But I also have many, many good points. And the country negatives? I have also written about the positives elsewhere...but there was no similar topic to this here on this forum. Many people agree with me.

[Vronski]

(08-12-2016 01:53 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

You wear American CLOTHING BRANDS. MAKE YOUR OWN. If you guys are so talented as you claim to be, why don't you make your own stuff?

Never heard about Zara ? Spanish brand as we all know, world's largest retailer with some € 12.000 billion revenue/year and about 2200 stores in the world ....and as a side note, just a few dozens in the US .... Americans are too big (obese) for Zara clothes.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/fat-shaming...d=17725146