Quote:Quote:

You can't even handle a thot, how the hell are you going to handle a wife for the rest of your life ?

Lol, ok. Any reading material that you can recommend then?

Quote: (01-24-2018 02:35 PM)JayGould Wrote:  

But somehow, my emotional side always immediately said: "Since I am not 100% sure, why not try a little bit longer, just to see if I was right...perhaps, I might even have been wrong".

Ignore your emotional side, just like you should ignore hers. It's 'tarded. Look at her actions, tune out her words.

If you have any doubt, you should have no doubt. This is a valuable lesson to apply anywhere. Not so sure about this contract you're about to sign? Don't sign it.

Quote: (01-24-2018 02:56 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

Ignore your emotional side, just like you should ignore hers. It's 'tarded. Look at her actions, tune out her words.

If you have any doubt, you should have no doubt. This is a valuable lesson to apply anywhere. Not so sure about this contract you're about to sign? Don't sign it.

Well said and absolutely right.

Which contract are you referring to though? You mean marriage? Won't marriage this girl, and when I do it'd be with a prenup.

Quote: (01-24-2018 03:03 PM)JayGould Wrote:  

Quote: (01-24-2018 02:56 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

Ignore your emotional side, just like you should ignore hers. It's 'tarded. Look at her actions, tune out her words.

If you have any doubt, you should have no doubt. This is a valuable lesson to apply anywhere. Not so sure about this contract you're about to sign? Don't sign it.

Well said and absolutely right.

Which contract are you referring to though? You mean marriage? Won't marriage this girl, and when I do it'd be with a prenup.

I mean in life in general.

If it feels like something's wrong, it's probably because something's wrong.

Quote: (01-24-2018 03:06 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

Quote: (01-24-2018 03:03 PM)JayGould Wrote:  

Quote: (01-24-2018 02:56 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

Ignore your emotional side, just like you should ignore hers. It's 'tarded. Look at her actions, tune out her words.

If you have any doubt, you should have no doubt. This is a valuable lesson to apply anywhere. Not so sure about this contract you're about to sign? Don't sign it.

Well said and absolutely right.

Which contract are you referring to though? You mean marriage? Won't marriage this girl, and when I do it'd be with a prenup.

I mean in life in general.

If it feels like something's wrong, it's probably because something's wrong.

Ah, gotcha . Sometimes you kinda feel like you might wanna take a chance though, even though the odds are against you. You might not lose much anyway. My plan was always to leave after 6 months regardless of what happened, as settling down with someone from outside my own race wasn't ever an intention.

I did get tempted to maybe start a family here for a couple of years though, then leave once the "loving" feelings had disappeared and get a more permanent one somewhere else.

In the end I had a (mostly) good experience and learned some good lessons for the future.

Quote: (01-24-2018 02:35 PM)JayGould Wrote:  

I set the frame of me being a player early on, but that right now I was tired of that and was looking for a long term relationship, potentially marriage in the future. After the first 2 weeks she spent here (while I was simultaneously working at my computer for a couple of hours a day) is when I agreed to try an exclusive relationship. I was new to South Africa, so I didn't have any friends etc here yet. I also told her that my plan was only to stay for 6 months while focusing on my business, then I would return back to Europe.

Nothing of what you said was setting the frame of being a player:

-You barely met this chick and basically said you're looking for a potential LTR
-You're hamstering away the fact you let her spend 2 straight weeks at your pad - working from your computer doesn't matter.
-Being new or having any friends are not excuses to spend that much time with a chick you barely know at your place.
-Regardless of what you said about being around for 6 months - your actions showed different.

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When she suggested we'd have an exclusive relationship, I said: "Well, I'm not really looking to hook up with a bunch of different girls right now anyway, especially with the high HIV rate here, and I like you, so why not try it?"

Ok so she DID initiate the "what are we" but that's a weird way to state it to a girl.

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But yeah obviously, this isn't the way to go. The problem was that she lived 1500 miles away, so she has been driving back and forth to see me during all this time. Given those circumstances, it was a bit tough to offer the "lets start non-exclusively"-way.

Why on earth are you dealing with this girl whose so far away ?

Long distance rarely or never works.

She should hardly be on your radar and sounds like she was using you for a place to stay while she was in town (and possibly had another guy).

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Well, she had that manipulative, sociopathic belief in herself being innocent which made me doubt my own intuition and gut feeling. I never actually caught her doing anything wrong, it was just small changes in her behavior, the way she talked on the phone, the way she texted or things that she said that had my gut screaming: "Get out!". But somehow, my emotional side always immediately said: "Since I am not 100% sure, why not try a little bit longer, just to see if I was right...perhaps, I might even have been wrong".

This is another example of why you always trust your gut

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But if she's had 15 boyfriends (all lasting on average 3-6 months) during the last couple of years, wouldn't at least one of them have been playing the game good enough to keep her around? To me it seems like this is a mentally ill person who won't ever end up in a happy relationship, no matter with whom.

If she really did date that many dudes that's an automatic red flag that you should avoid.

No they aren't playing the game to keep her around as an LTR - they're playing the game to milk her for bangs, then she bails and swings to another dick.

She definitely has ALOT of issues and is to be avoided.

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Is it really fair to say that all women are like this? Not from my experience. Now of course, I have always played the relationship game differently in the past...but just thinking back on some of the girls I have been with, I very much doubt they would be as toxic and backstabbing as this bitch.

The term AWALT (All women are like that) rings true (to varying degrees)

They might not be super toxic or crazy as this chick, but women are capable of alot of things.

I never doubted this wouldn't come from as you said, "my" girl. My gut told me all of this would happen from Week 1. My mistake was not trusting my instincts, somehow wanting to believe that it could work in the end and that my instincts were wrong.

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Seems like you are contradicting yourself? You're saying, like I did, that crazy and fun women are only to be used as fuck buddies. So that means they aren't LTR material. I haven't met any very feminine, low notch count girls that I wanted to hang around with for very long. Sure they make good wives, but there is no excitement there.

No, I'm not contradicting myself.

I'm driving home the point that you tried locking down a crazy chick who wasn't worth her salt as an LTR

Instead you should've just kept her solely as a fuck buddy and that's all.

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You can't even handle a thot, how the hell are you going to handle a wife for the rest of your life ?

Lol, ok. Any reading material that you can recommend then?
[/quote]

thread-47487.html

thread-43687.html

thread-54169.html

thread-46342.html

Screeners:

thread-47878.html

Most importantly:

thread-50002.html

Quote: (01-24-2018 03:58 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Nothing of what you said was setting the frame of being a player:

You barely met this chick and basically said you're looking for a potential LTR

Yeah, guess I won't be saying that stuff again. Girls don't seem to like it, even if you're just being honest. I thought I could keep my frame as a desirable man regardless, and I think I did pretty well with it overall. But it's back to keeping an LTR only as something potentially possible, in the right circumstances, with the right woman...and only promising something much less serious to start out with.

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-You're hamstering away the fact you let her spend 2 straight weeks at your pad - working from your computer doesn't matter. Being new or having any friends are not excuses to spend that much time with a chick you barely know at your place.

Fair enough. And every time she has come down I've let her stay for as long as she wanted to. Haven't had motivation to work for quite some time, so guess my sense of purpose have been weak and it obviously showed.

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Regardless of what you said about being around for 6 months - your actions showed different.

True. These were my intentions from the beginning but after a while I got bouts of "well maybe I should stick around for a year instead, see what happens..." and "maybe there is truly something special about this relationship".

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Why on earth are you dealing with this girl whose so far away ?

Long distance rarely or never works.

She should hardly be on your radar and sounds like she was using you for a place to stay while she was in town (and possibly had another guy).

Well she didn't tell me she lived in another town until she suggested she'd come visit me for the weekend. Initially I thought: "Why not? She's hot". I had no further intentions than that. Then I got to really like her, and she suggested she could come down and visit me continuously.

She never once left my place alone except for going to the hair salon a few times etc (which I could always verify since her hair was different). So it's impossible she was seeing someone else during the time she was here.

She even quit her relatively well paying job so that she could come and see me, as driving 1500 miles (one way) just for short weekend visits would be too much. I actually told her from the beginning that a long distance relationship would be very tough and rarely works, hence she suggested coming to visit me every week. I never went to visit her.

Obviously she probably banged some guys in her hometown when she wasn't here though. Or at least flirted on Instagram/Whatsapp/Tinder.

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If she really did date that many dudes that's an automatic red flag that you should avoid.

No they aren't playing the game to keep her around as an LTR - they're playing the game to milk her for bangs, then she bails and swings to another dick.

She definitely has ALOT of issues and is to be avoided.

Some probably. Others probably got hooked. Apparently she had a boyfriend already when she met me who she later dumped a month into ours. Apparently they hadn't had sex in 6 months, but I very much doubt that's now in hindsight, given the guy's reaction on social media etc.

Quote:Quote:

The term AWALT (All women are like that) rings true (to varying degrees)

They might not be super toxic or crazy as this chick, but women are capable of alot of things.

Yeah I agree with that and I think even if this chick wasn't as crazy as she is, I'd probably still have fucked it up even with a "normal" woman, given my mistakes on setting the frame correctly from the beginning (as you pointed out), letting her stay at my place for as long as she wanted to and so on.

Quote:Quote:

thread-47487.html etc

Thanks for the reading material. Will check it out.

Quote: (01-24-2018 04:31 PM)JayGould Wrote:  

Some probably. Others probably got hooked. Apparently she had a boyfriend already when she met me who she later dumped a month into ours. Apparently they hadn't had sex in 6 months, but I very much doubt that.

This right here explains everything you need to know about her.

This is female hypergamy at it's worse.

This right here is what automatically disqualifies her as anything relationship material.

If she cheated on her boyfriend with you and then got with you....what makes you think she won't do that to you ?

At this point it's almost a given she will do that to you.

Quote:Quote:

Yeah I agree with that and I think even if this chick wasn't as crazy as she is, I'd probably still have fucked it up even with a "normal" woman, given my mistakes on setting the frame correctly from the beginning (as you pointed out).

Exactly, so now should be a time to reflect, correct, and apply this lesson to all girls in the future.

Hey JayGould,

First things first: Regarding HIV, if you haven't already, seek urgent medical attention for post-exposure prophylaxis and testing: https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/pep.html

Regarding LTRs, I've only just (2 days ago) broken up with a girl with BPD traits; the relationship was also highly emotionally charged. I posted the story and received some great advice – if you have a read you might find some interesting parallels: thread-66879.html


Some observations:

1. Break-ups are always hard. Logically, you know there is more than enough reason for you to kick her to the curb. You guys lived together for months and it was passionate  – there's going to be strong attachments from both sides. Moving on will be tough… that's normal and to be expected. To paraphrase Dream Medicine: "If you are the one doing the breaking up, there will always be lingering doubt. If you are the one who is left, there will be feelings of inadequacy". And of course there the desire for intimacy, to take care of her etc.


2. I agree this girl's background and her behaviour matches Borderline personality disorder. I'm going to fall short at diagnosing her from the other side of the world. But. If she is BPD, consider the following insights from author and US psychiatrist Dr Livingston:

"… These people are full of surprises and are often identifiable simply because they are surrounded by emotional chaos. Those in their orbit often find themselves behaving in confusing and impulsive ways as a reaction to the sudden mood shifts of the borderline.

"…You know you are in the presence of a borderline when you feel in danger of developing emotional whiplash from their sudden mood changes and their seemingly bottomless need for support. "I hate you, don't leave me" is the mantra of the borderline (and the title of one of the best books on the subject). Marry one and you risk a lifetime of confusion and unhappiness."

Take home point: You might be crazy, I don't know. But even raising this question can be another hallmark that you are in the presence of a BPD girl.


3. As other members have pointed out: use this as an opportunity to dust off and move on, reconsider what your strategy is. Are there any lessons to be learned? Will you allow girls to move in so quickly in the future? Do you plan to openly game girls in front of future girlfriends? What sort of LTR/girlfriend do you want and why?


4. Avoid the temptation of resuming ANY contact. If she is BPD, she has game. The temptation will be very real. Have a look here:

thread-39626.html

thread-52478.html


Best,

Phin

This OP reads like a bad episode of COPS. I feel like I just banged a close relative, smoked meth, and dropped out of high school having just read it.

Not gonna lie. I read the OP and skimmed the rest.

If you're getting into arguments with your landlord and having your life turned upsidown by law enforcement while sweating over a dime bag then you need to put bitches out of your life and get your fucking shit together.

You are actually managing to make the homeless 16 year old bum Leonard look accomplished and mature.

Quote: (01-25-2018 04:52 AM)Phineas Wrote:  

Regarding LTRs, I've only just (2 days ago) broken up with a girl with BPD traits; the relationship was also highly emotionally charged. I posted the story and received some great advice – if you have a read you might find some interesting parallels: thread-66879.html

Read the whole thing. Yes, very similar situation indeed. The way these broads can look you in the eye and lie even when the proof is right in front of you...it's almost spooky. Even makes you doubt yourself sometimes, as you said was normal when being around BPD people.

Thanks for the links and advice, will go through it.

Funny thing is, just as you, I had a checklist for what an LTR should be. But then with these girls, you get the feeling of "Well, she may not fit the checklist, but what if this one is different?". Lol. I am sure you can relate.

From now on I trust my gut.

Quote: (01-25-2018 05:13 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

This OP reads like a bad episode of COPS. I feel like I just banged a close relative, smoked meth, and dropped out of high school having just read it.

Not that I care, but if you need to know no drugs were found in the apartment (except some weed, which the cops stole). The landlord is psychotic and called the cops on me because she wanted me out before my lease period had ended. The reason? I accidentally broke a glass, and hence were ruining her precious apartment.

Quote: (01-25-2018 08:39 AM)JayGould Wrote:  

Read the whole thing. Yes, very similar situation indeed. The way these broads can look you in the eye and lie even when the proof is right in front of you...it's almost spooky. Even makes you doubt yourself sometimes, as you said was normal when being around BPD people.

The word "confusing", used in the quotes above, is key here. Two major early warning signs to look out for:

1) Deeply incongruous and confusing communications. Imagine a woman demanding that you cuddle and be close to her in the same angry tone of voice you'd expect from someone telling you to stay away from them and get out of their house.

2) They appear to not remember their episodes. This may be intentional gaslighting, but there are also many descriptions out there where someone with BPD will destroy someone's property and then appear to sincerely have no clue what happened to it.

Both of these are addictive for their partners. A lot of people thrive on proving someone wrong or trying to figure out someone who seems "complicated", but these should both be clear "get out" signs.

Quote: (01-25-2018 08:53 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

Quote: (01-25-2018 08:39 AM)JayGould Wrote:  

Read the whole thing. Yes, very similar situation indeed. The way these broads can look you in the eye and lie even when the proof is right in front of you...it's almost spooky. Even makes you doubt yourself sometimes, as you said was normal when being around BPD people.

The word "confusing", used in the quotes above, is key here. Two major early warning signs to look out for:

1) Deeply incongruous and confusing communications. Imagine a woman demanding that you cuddle and be close to her in the same angry tone of voice you'd expect from someone telling you to stay away from them and get out of their house.

2) They appear to not remember their episodes. This may be intentional gaslighting, but there are also many descriptions out there where someone with BPD will destroy someone's property and then appear to sincerely have no clue what happened to it.

Both of these are addictive for their partners. A lot of people thrive on proving someone wrong or trying to figure out someone who seems "complicated", but these should both be clear "get out" signs.

Yeah, this girl would often have an episode out of nowhere while we're laying in bed cuddling, and all of a sudden get hysteric over some Whatsapp text from some old Tinder chick from earlier in the day and start crying etc. I would always pour gasoline to the fire so you can imagine some pretty explosive fights with broken things etc.

In an hour or two (or the next morning, depending on whether she slept on the couch or not) she'd often have no memory of why we were fighting in the first place. Just that "it was stupid, and lets not do it again".

Yeah I think this was exciting to me somehow. I like letting people know when they're out of line and make them realize their mistakes, but I never once succeeded with this one. I guess the challenge kept me coming back for more (until I realized, thanks to this forum, that she's mentally ill). I thought perhaps this is just how black people are.

Of course she didnt feel secure in the relationship....youre suppossedly a high value man that just commited to a skank like her in one week and moved her in after the first date. ( thats how they think).
Why are you selling so low ,so quick? She didnt even have to work for it . At that point, it was over for you.

And accusing you of communicating with others and cheating is projecting 100% of the time.

Yeah, stay away from commitment at this point in your life.

You used the term "we both fell in love"

Know this... what you feel as love as a man is 100% completely different for a woman. Their actions prove that. Stop with the oneitis. You need to think of things as a buiness decision, a game. Play accordingly becuase it if you dont, she will find someone that does.

Also ,when you break up with someone ( in your case 5 times) and go back on your stance by taking them back ( puss out). Youve just proved youre a beta to be used. She has lost respect for you, doesnt trust you, and would never feel secure...at that point youre being used for attention and resources. If she can manipulate you like this, in her mind, so can everyone else, including the alpha shes ready to fuck behind your back. In her mind youre so pathetic that youll take her back no matter what she does.

Quote: (01-25-2018 02:54 PM)MVPnis Wrote:  

Of course she didnt feel secure in the relationship....youre suppossedly a high value man that just commited to a skank like her in one week and moved her in after the first date. ( thats how they think).
Why are you selling so low ,so quick? She didnt even have to work for it . At that point, it was over for you.

And accusing you of communicating with others and cheating is projecting 100% of the time.

Yeah, stay away from commitment at this point in your life.

While I agree with that in general I don't think everything is so black and white. No, I did not let her move in after the first date. And I had many logical reasons for why I'd be selling so low, so quick as you said it.

Like:

1. I wasn't in the mood for being a player with multiple girls, because I didn't have time and this country is full of HIV.
2. I'm going to be here for 6 months to focus on work, then I'm going home. I'm actually in this country to avoid distractions like women. I said this immediately.
3. I agreed we could try having an exclusive relationship after the first week, because why not? After all I'm here to work, not to socialize.

So even with those facts in mind, was the frame still fucked?

Some things I know I could've done better is to sometimes say no to her coming here, and sending her away after a certain period of time (not letting her stay for 10 days at a time). Because when she was here I wasn't really working much either. Other than that I can't see how the frame was lost?

She also wanted to have a tattoo with my name on it and a heart around it. I told her not to, several times. If I was too much of a beta, would she have wanted to do this? Serious question.

I feel stupid for having to tell you but - YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.

Now work on yourself and find a woman worthy of you.

She should be dead to you know.

Quote: (01-24-2018 04:55 AM)JayGould dip='1724765 Wrote:

The first time I dumped her I did it after she said she'd had 25 sex partners before me, and I said "you can't turn a hoe into a housewife, get the fuck out". Since then I haven't gotten any honest revelations like that from her again, just "girl game". But maybe it's understandable because of the way I reacted.

People with BPD and NPD tendencies are skilled manipulators and vindictive. You have to go no contact and cut people like this out of your life completely because they will work very hard to create problems for you and torture you emotionally. People like this have a strong need to hurt you, specifically in a similar way to how they have been hurt.

This is another case where I think we have to take a step back and realize that we can never fully understand how women think or how crazy people think. It may seem ridiculously illogical to us but it is very reasonable for this type of person to continue spending months or even years with you and continue having sex with you while they are plotting how to torture you and ruin your life.

Quote: (01-24-2018 03:27 AM)Synezthetic Wrote:  

Definitely did the right thing.

If this is the *5th* time breaking up - you need to make sure it's also the last time. That means going full-on no contact. You remove every method of contact which you have to her and she has to you, no exceptions. It will feel awful, and you'll have an inner voice that'll make you hesitate, that will tell you that it can't picture her not being in your life - you need to ignore that voice. The longer you keep her around, she'll take up real estate in your head, and that'll really fuck with you.

Thank you for this post. I just went through a similar situation with a girl I dated for 1.5 years, and we just broke up for good. This was after countless other breakups and getting back together, petty arguments, and not-so-great sex. How do I know this last breakup was for good? She blocked my number I guess she had enough too at some point. To be honest, I miss her. So many memories of us doing shit together, despite the fighting. We even visited her family in her home country together. Hard to believe that that's over now. But your post was very helpful in convincing me that this was the right move.

This chick sounds like a complete sociopath. Good riddance! Block and delete her number and never look back--maybe even change your phone number. You'll be glad you did.