[TheWastelander]

Whenever one of these events happen the usual suspects want to take the guns away from the millions of people who didn't commit the crime and let the politicians keep theirs.

[Samseau]

(06-19-2015 07:15 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Correlation is not causation.
Mentally unstable people, especially of the sort to eventually start killing people, are more likely to be taking psychiatric drugs to begin with.

My opinion is that they (drugs) are vastly over-prescribed and aren't helping much, possibly harming to a degree, but to solely blame Prozac for all such acts is kind of ridiculous.

Possible, but these guys were taking the drugs from tender ages of 6-7-8 all the way until they are 18. There's no way it did not fuck them in the head.

Source: I've used some of these drugs myself, they are powerful.

[JacksonRev]

(06-19-2015 06:41 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Wouldn't some adjustment in gun ownership laws that saved even a few lives a day be worth it?

No.

Lax guns laws save lives. It's insurance.

I was in Iraq during the Arab Spring of 2011. Let's just say I had a very good view of what was happening in the multitude of countries involved. And I've continued to have a rather good view since.

When a lot of people don't have guns, very bad things happen to them.

Having guns spread throughout the population is what prevents genocide. The US has been over due for another civil war for over a century. But unlike almost every other country with split demographics, it's managed to keep on keeping on (see Thomas Chittim for some good research on demographics and civil wars). It's the only country with guaranteed gun rights for private citizens. The founding fathers may have shit in buckets, but they still had a pretty good grasp of governments and human nature.

Insurance is paid with what you are insuring. You pay money to compensate for unexpected monetary loss. You have to pay in lives to prevent genocide.

It's unfortunate. This was a tragedy. That evil bastard needs to be strung up to pay for his crimes.

But, there is no reason that any organization in the US should not have at least one adult male with a firearm ready to protect those people that he cares about. Guns are too easy to get, too easy to learn how to use effectively, and it's not like this shit is a complete surprise that nobody has ever seen before.

Military members like myself, and police officers, don't magically become perfect gun wielding implements of the state because we put on uniforms. We're pretty much the same people we were before. Give me 30 minutes, and I can teach any man how to safely use a firearm for the rest of his life. And then he can protect those people that are dear to him, instead of defenselessly praying while he waits for another man to save him.

[renotime]

Knives killed more people in 2013 than rifles did.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11/kniv...e-control/

And for those of you that propose gun control, how do you plan to implement that?

I imagine if and when the the gov't decides to take the guns, they will achieve this by breaking into your home and forcefully taking your gun with their guns.

The gov't doesn't want gun control, they want total control.

On a similar note, crime is actually going down.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/no...3-released

[Brian Shima]

Edit. Delete.

[Captainstabbin]

When something like this happens, the most beta response is to willingly give up freedoms for "safety". These shootings already take place in "gun free zones". Laws are already in place to prevent this. The problem is that no laws are going to deter people intent on harm.

This kid hates blacks, does he kill gang members? Of course not, the little coward goes to a church. The Batman shooter went across town to the theater that didn't allow CCDW. They specifically target places where no one can fight back.

We have to look to ourselves for safety. Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. And that doesn't count the number of times people were deterred from attempting crimes. The Clinton administration tried to claim that civilian-used firearms have never (or extremely rarely) been used to save lives. They said it so many times - and the media so completely participated in the lie - that it became part of the public consciousness (see my earlier post about controlling the narrative). Yet even when they tried to skew the numbers and throw out as many questionable instances they could, even then they had to admit that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense.

[samsamsam]

Some people are too attached to their positions to look at something objectively. It is just an emotional response of feeling like something is being taken from him or her. Much like if you take a dog from a bone.

But the sign of a growing mature man is to at least question and ponder. I have always wondered about why some people are so addicted to their guns. This manufactured oppressed feeling some people have. I always want to ask people's upbringings but I know that is too private to ask. Obviously, different parts of the country have different views.

But rather than take a position on for or against guns. How about a stand on improving safety in our country? That seems like a reasonable comment, it could be about anything to improve safety in our country.

I always seem to find those that need to use words like alpha and beta a little too insecure. I never see the solid posters ever go to that sort of discussion, they seem not even to think in those terms, they seem to have evolved and playing on a different level of thought. We are just discussing stuff here. Different perspectives.

(06-19-2015 07:28 PM)kleyau Wrote:  

... .

kleyau, thanks for presenting the info through a different lens. Is there a way where there can still be the insurance you speak of but with a better handle on the acceptable loss? Is delaying someone's access to a gun for a few days while some background work is done considered unreasonable? Or is not being with one's gun for even a day an unreasonable price? I'm just curious, you seem like a reasonable voice. Or nothing should be changed? Thanks.

Might be a good time for me to get in touch with my mentor a Vietnam vet and get his perspective.

[Conscious Pirate]

(06-18-2015 03:23 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

TLDR: media has more power than ever now, and since one of its primary objectives has been pushing the "white racist" narrative, it's no surprise that the incidence of media shitstorms over "white racism" grows in tandem with the media's power.

From Alain De Botton's excellent book, The News: A User's Manual

Alain De Botton Wrote:

Societies become modern, the philosopher Hegel suggested, when news replaces religion as our central source of guidance and our touchstone of authority. In the developed economies, the news now occupies a position of power at least equal to that formerly enjoyed by the faiths. Dispatches track the canonical hours with uncanny precision: matins have been transubstantiated into the breakfast bulletin, vespers into the evening report. But the news doesn't just follow a quasi-religious timetable. It also demands that we approach it with some of the same deferential expectations we would have harboured of the faiths. Here, too, we hope to receive revelations, learn who is good & bad, fathom suffering and understand the unfolding logic of existence. And here too, if we refuse to take part in the rituals, there could be importations of heresy.

[Spectrumwalker]

(06-18-2015 10:53 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

Have there ever been any left wing domestic terrorist assaults?...

The Communist Party of Peru once spawned a little well known organization called the Shining Path. Their dear leader was of course of a Leninist university philosophy professor. They really caused a lot of damage back in the day, even bringing the government to declare martial law in Lima at times. They are still an organization, but not nearly as active as they once were. Though from time to time, they will make their presence known and blow something up, or rob someplace. Shining Path has been classified by the US, EU, and Canada as a terrorist organization.

Tarata bombing in Mirafores. 92'

[Fortis]

Let's shut up about a race war. We're men with ethical codes. I'm not taking up arms against my neighbour for something he didn't do and you're probably not taking up arms against me for shit I didn't do. I will leave everything behind before I slaughter innocent men and women for a battle I don't believe in.

I know we're tough alpha men who don't fuck around with women, but we're also supposed to be good men. I know alpha has no morality *eye roll* but we all know we're not debased creatures. Let's all calm down. Nine human beings died over something pointless. Literally, some dumb shit. Let's stop making this about race relations and let's keep this about the people. At the end of the day we have to live with eachother and we cannot have shit like this happening.

[Captainstabbin]

(06-19-2015 10:28 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Let's shut up about a race war. We're men with ethical codes. I'm not taking up arms against my neighbour for something he didn't do and you're probably not taking up arms against me for shit I didn't do. I will leave everything behind before I slaughter innocent men and women for a battle I don't believe in.

I know we're tough alpha men who don't fuck around with women, but we're also supposed to be good men. I know alpha has no morality *eye roll* but we all know we're not debased creatures. Let's all calm down. Nine human beings died over something pointless. Literally, some dumb shit. Let's stop making this about race relations and let's keep this about the people. At the end of the day we have to live with eachother and we cannot have shit like this happening.

I agree. I don't think there will be a race war. I don't even think events like this happen often enough to be significant. 9 people have been murdered in Chicago alone since this occurred. Where is the outcry? The media doesn't care because there's no way to create a race debate about it.

Things like this will happen, and it's sad, but I'm more outraged by the race baiters trying to turn it into a political advantage.

[Sketness]

I think that the event that would solve this race issue would be an alien evasion... we need one. Thats the only way we will see ourselves as human.

and a side note; I like reading Heartiste for his game but his is a low key raciest ( and i dont say that very often)

I think he has a strange hard on for black people because he ties all of his political rants back to black people

[jariel]

I think people just love saying "race war", in some twisted way it excites them.

Tell you want, if there's ever a "race war" in modern times in the U.S., this will be my view of it:

[renotime]

One thing I think that is being overlooked is the fact that Charleston isn't being burnt to the ground.

Considering what they've been through with an indicted killer cop and this massive hate crime, I'd have to assume most of its citizens are level headed and know that that will get them nowhere.

The people of Baltimore could learn a thing or two.

[Fast Eddie]

(06-19-2015 07:28 PM)kleyau Wrote:  

And then he can protect those people that are dear to him, instead of defenselessly praying while he waits for another man to save him.

This. How can any man worthy of the name possibly be in favor of putting his life in the hands of others, and accept that at the end of the day, life and death decisions over his life will be made by other men? That smacks of being a bitch.

[samsamsam]

(06-19-2015 11:02 PM)renotime Wrote:  

One thing I think that is being overlooked is the fact that Charleston isn't being burnt to the ground.

Considering what they've been through with an indicted killer cop and this massive hate crime, I'd have to assume most of its citizens are level headed and know that that will get them nowhere.

The people of Baltimore could learn a thing or two.

I think part of that is:

1) Guy is caught quickly
2) The relatives, despite their tremendous pain, actually forgive the crazy mother fucker today during his bond hearing. I am not sure I could do that so quickly, if ever. They led by example.
3) The police were not the shooters/aggressors

If we want to be objective.

[LeeEnfield303]

Charlie Manson's motive for his crimes was....he was trying to spark a race war.

Didn't happen then, won't happen now.

[Fortis]

@samsamsam

Exactly. You're dealing with real christians, not fake ones. They're good people.

[Conscious Pirate]

(06-19-2015 10:51 PM)Sketness Wrote:  

I think that the event that would solve this race issue would be an alien evasion... we need one.

This is not far from the truth. As crazy as it may sound & as much as I would like it not to be so, I don't see any other way around it.

I have been saying this for a long time. And copped many WTF looks for it.

The only thing I can see that will put an end to the infighting amongst human beings on whatever level you like - race, religion, culture, borders etc will be when/if we finally realise we are not alone in the universe. We will have no choice but to put all this bickering & bullshit aside & band together to face a potential common enemy.

Unfortunately, that is the depressing reality of human nature.

[Fortis]

That sounds like the plot of Watchmen.

It would definitely work. I'm surprised the government hasn't tried to use it against us in some way to finally control us like Ozymandias did.

[Atlanta Man]

(06-19-2015 10:28 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Let's shut up about a race war. We're men with ethical codes. I'm not taking up arms against my neighbour for something he didn't do and you're probably not taking up arms against me for shit I didn't do. I will leave everything behind before I slaughter innocent men and women for a battle I don't believe in.

I know we're tough alpha men who don't fuck around with women, but we're also supposed to be good men. I know alpha has no morality *eye roll* but we all know we're not debased creatures. Let's all calm down. Nine human beings died over something pointless. Literally, some dumb shit. Let's stop making this about race relations and let's keep this about the people. At the end of the day we have to live with eachother and we cannot have shit like this happening.

I go to a lot of white supremacist sites, HBD sites, Black power sites and liberal sites and I noticed the oddest thing-They ALL condemned this shooting, even Stormfront. I have never seen all the different political spheres in the various corners of the web in agreement like this. What this 21 year old dipshit who committed this horrendous act did was cause a spontaneous agreement among everybody in the United States that this was a disgusting and inappropriate travesty committed against good decent people who were completely undeserving of it, even on Stormfront. I really think this may be the turning point in race relations where we see this tragedy bring us together as Americans, everyone is disgusted by this stupid boy's crime, and I mean everyone- even white nationalists and white supremacists. It is like everyone is valuing humanity like they should, and the inhumanity of this slaughter has caused a visceral reaction of uniform revulsion across all racial and political lines. Seriously, I am kind of proud of my fellow Americans across the board- this gives me hope for a better future.....

[Fortis]

Serious question: are you a stormfront man? I'm interested in why they even consider this a bad thing.

[Atlanta Man]

(06-19-2015 11:48 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Serious question: are you a stormfront man? I'm interested in why they even consider this a bad thing.

No I am not a Stormfront man. I just like to read things from every angle. I can sometimes catch myself only going to sites that reinforce what I already believe, so I make sure to go to sites I disagree with like Jezebel, Salon, Stormfront, Feministing, ect.(you get my drift) just to make sure I am not in an echo chamber. I used to be a progressive judgemental self righteous asshat and I would only read sites that reinforced my world view and I do not want to make the same mistake again, it was hard to admit to myself I was wrong for so long.

Stormfronts take was he was a coward for going into a church where the "good ones" were and not the ghetto where the "irresponsible ones" were and that he set the "movement" back and made them look bad. A few posted claimed it was a conspiracy. Stormfront is weird, They hate Rossiey with a passion, and think Roosh is the worst, and they worship white vagina like it is Jesus.

[LeeEnfield303]

(06-20-2015 12:10 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

They hate Rossiey with a passion, and think Roosh is the worst,

Why is that?

[Chauncey]

The statements by the families of the victims in court was pretty powerful. Hopefully their message of peace, love, forgiveness, and justice will be heard by the angry (justifiably) black folks, the racist and hate filled white sociopaths, and the blood thirsty media and their sheep.

It is sad that so much of the racism in this country is fueled by liberal media, extreme hateful conspiracy websites, social media, and the influence of backwards family members. When two people of different races can sit down with no agenda and share a meal, drink, conversation, or even bible study they usually find that people are generally good and have more in common than not.

This terrible tragedy could cause a paradigm shift in race relations if politicians, media, and we the people focused on these families responses rather than bicker about mental illness, gun control, terrorism, flags, which race kills more of the other race, etc.

Unfortunately messages of love and peace do not increase votes, bank rolls, or web clicks.