[Hazaer]

(03-31-2018 09:06 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

Prefers hanging out with guys rather than girls. Huge red flag.

Yeah it is. Having any kind of relationship with her is actually not recommended considering all the factors. I remember her also mentioning that she is in the army reserve or something. Guess that might be why she is more used to hanging with guys and therefore tougher to game but also less appealing in a way. Actually, now that I think about it, I got to next her. But it is worth learning from this experience and use the knowledge on other more feminine girls, if there still are, in australia..

[Dulceácido]

Even worse. Military chicks (regardless of what nationality) are, quite possibly, the most despicable chicks on the planet. They set the lowest of standards for themselves and routinely fail to meet them.

[Mufasa]

(03-30-2018 10:46 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

----->the only thing that matters is what she feels in response to what you say.[/i]<-------

Do you see the difference?

So the question isn't "what do I say?"

The question youre looking for is "What do I want her to feel?"

+1 (edit: already rated you)
This is the soul essence of seduction. You aren't going to logic her into giving the pussy up. You can't make sense outta nonsense.
Some people are able to do most of the seduction from across the room without ever laying eyes on the girl first. Body language, presence, how they dress.
When they see the girl: eye contact, body positioning, smile, etc
When they talk to them: body positioning, kino, spacing, sitting or standing, etc.

These things reach for a girls feelings and make her subconsciously feel some type of way about you as a mate. This stuff eventually works its way into some secret society shit but I digress.

My advice: step up your non verbal communication to create feelings. If your verbal game is on point but you're non-verbal is off she will pick up on it. XX chromosomes=double dose of intuition

(03-31-2018 05:36 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

Update: She replied with 'hey man how is it going?' Something was off about the message but I replied saying I got some wine I wanted to try with her and if she was up for wine tasting. She replies 'sorry but i am busy...'

Dont know if that convo was the reason. Or maybe it was some advanced form of attention seeking behavior I dont know about that 1st years engage in. Wasnt really attracted to her so well, its her loss I guess.

(03-31-2018 05:04 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 11:33 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Edit: If you still want to bang her you have one more shot. Next time you see her make a direct move (number, coffee, Netflix...whatever). She needs to know that youre thinking of her as a sexual target (discreetly of course) in order for her attraction wiring to kick in.

You either

-You care more (not the girl as much as about this opportunity) than you let on and therefore were afraid to wait try in person

or

- You are missing some some fundamental understanding of attraction principles.

Combination of the last two and being too patient. Whether or not you waited on the guy to be gone in her eyes you kinda did.=youre not a man

You didn't pick up that she was available and even stuck up for the other guy= you're not interested and/or not a man

She texted you on some friendzone shit and didn't shut it down or display some high value= not a man and/or uninteresting
(ps. the wine comment is for when you know the sexual attraction is there. without the escalation its kinda weird/creepy)

You've let off a string of non-assertivenss and in my experience thats hard to recover from. Its like she was in your bed and you didn't go for the kill. I've never made it back from that.

I do think PT is right and that you can win this but I don't necessarily agree with the process.
It doesnt matter at this time that she sees you as a sexual being or not--youve shown multiple times that you aren't. Direct is the logical assessment and puts the ball in her court if you've helped her see she needs to shot the shot--homie has not helped her see that.
The nonsensical move would be low key show some interest in one/multiple friends of hers--shows you do have the balls to go for what you are attracted to while simultaneously causing her to wonder why she couldn't get you to do that...now she has to chase to prove her attractiveness.

She is now friendzoned without you saying it and this will create the image of you as a sexual being even though its with her friends. Get the girls out to a party or something and try to seduce them while keeping old girl involved in he festivities but freezing her out. Women are territorial and if she starts competing good for you if not you've got new prospects so who cares.
The trick her is getting her to get her friends out without her taking your attraction to them personally and tanking it.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-02-2018 02:00 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

I do think PT is right and that you can win this but I don't necessarily agree with the process.

I think he unadvisedly fired his shot via text.

I think given what happened and the additional info about this girl a near "apocalyptic option" is likely the only thing worth trying. Full on direct with only the thinnest veil of plausible deniability. The following (sample) exchange has worked several times for me:

Note: This has to be done in person, with no one else around and logistics have to be air tight (close by, and private).

And caution must be done with extreme confidence and playfulness. Not for the feint of heart (Full disclosure- I did this kind of stuff when I was younger, half drunk, and during a different time)

PT "Hey"

Her "Oh hey"

PT "Whats wrong with your hair?"

Her "Huh...errr what do you mean?"

PT "Come here...turn around"

When she does slide fingers up the back of her head and grab a palm full of hair then give it a good gentle but firm tug.

Her "What the ?"

PT Looking straight into her eyes "You had something in your hair"...smirk "Was I wrong?"

If she laughs its game on

Change the subject

PT "Want to come over and watch a movie / glass of wine?"

She now knows without a doubt you know whats up. She's either into it or not

(04-01-2018 10:41 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(03-31-2018 09:06 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

Prefers hanging out with guys rather than girls. Huge red flag.

Yeah it is. Having any kind of relationship with her is actually not recommended considering all the factors. I remember her also mentioning that she is in the army reserve or something. Guess that might be why she is more used to hanging with guys and therefore tougher to game but also less appealing in a way. Actually, now that I think about it, I got to next her. But it is worth learning from this experience and use the knowledge on other more feminine girls, if there still are, in australia..

Hazaer

Again Im not trying to rag on you but...there's thirst leaking into your game. The fact that you would even start to consider whether a girl is LTR worthy before you've gone on a date much less even banged is a strong tell.

If I can pick up on via your writing...what do you think girls are getting from you in your interactions?

Looking for a girlfriend is the best way never to have one. This is especially true in the 18-25 yo western girl demographic (Am I correct in assuming the age group youre targeting?)

The vast majority of younger girls arent looking for a "boyfriend". They're looking for:

1.) Attention
2.) Validation
3.) Fun
4.) Experiences

...pretty much in that order. The irony is that they end up wanting the guys that provide those elements, but are less emotionally "invested", to be their boyfriend.

I'll elaborate on the aforementioned "attraction fundamentals" in a subsequent post but for now...

In boot camp they breakdown new recruits so that they can be built back up "correctly"

Step 1. Make having sex, one time, with a girl your primary goal. (You cant bang a girl for the 2nd, time much less subsequent times until after the first time right?)

You need to forget relationships for now because those thoughts are like a gas leak when you interact with new girls. They can smell it and they are repulsed by it

[Mufasa]

(04-02-2018 04:51 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

I think given what happened and the additional info about this girl a near "apocalyptic option" is likely the only thing worth trying. Full on direct with only the thinnest veil of plausible deniability. The following (sample) exchange has worked several times for me:

Note: This has to be done in person, with no one else around and logistics have to be air tight (close by, and private).

And caution must be done with extreme confidence and playfulness. Not for the feint of heart (Full disclosure- I did this kind of stuff when I was younger, half drunk, and during a different time)

PT "Hey"

Her "Oh hey"

PT "Whats wrong with your hair?"

Her "Huh...errr what do you mean?"

PT "Come here...turn around"

When she does slide fingers up the back of her head and grab a palm full of hair then give it a good gentle but firm tug.

huge nuts
almost choked on my own spit reading that lol

[PapayaTapper]

[quote] (04-02-2018 05:00 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

[quote='PapayaTapper' pid='1761023' dateline='1522705907']

I think given what happened and the additional info about this girl a near "apocalyptic option" is likely the only thing worth trying. Full on direct with only the thinnest veil of plausible deniability. The following (sample) exchange has worked several times for me:

Note: This has to be done in person, with no one else around and logistics have to be air tight (close by, and private).

And caution must be done with extreme confidence and playfulness. Not for the feint of heart (Full disclosure- I did this kind of stuff when I was younger, half drunk, and during a different time)

PT "Hey"

Her "Oh hey"

PT "Whats wrong with your hair?"

Her "Huh...errr what do you mean?"

PT "Come here...turn around"

When she does slide fingers up the back of her head and grab a palm full of hair then give it a good gentle but firm tug.



huge nuts
almost choked on my own spit reading that lol[/quote]

This is NOT for girls you've never met and at least talked to via social circle or at least know peripherally.

I thinks its better than the "Want to go home with me?" apocalyptic opener at last call. I also actually did this several times in clubs with girls who I had at least had flirty banter and we'd already broken the touch barrier via teasing / tickle/ hugs / arm punch. Its amazing to see the full spectrum of surprise to shock to feigned outrage to lip licking sequence when it works

I stumbled on the power of hair pulling years ago and worked it in whenever I could ever since

[quote] (07-14-2017 12:15 PM)Kaligula Wrote:  

[quote='PapayaTapper' pid='1611574' dateline='1500049367']
Sounds like you are good at making girls comfortable around you. Thats good. Very good because comfort is a critical part of the process

Here are a few tips to build on the comfort and create attraction .

Accidental / casual touching is a way to break the contact barrier.

1.When possible sit next to her not across. This way your knees can "accidently" form time to time. This "innocent" cotanct helps build the sexual tension...aka "tingles"

2. If she's wearing jewelry ask her about it. If she's wearing a bracelet grab the hand she's wearing it on and say "That's a cool bracelet. Where did you get it?" Keep looking at it as she tells you the story then just make something up "It reminds me of the bracelets the women in Bali wear when they want to signal that they are single" (or some other such bullshit story...have fun with it....the more you do this the better at it you'll get)

The same thing works for necklaces, and earrings (just put your finger tips behind the item as you ask)

This does two things: Allows you to casually make physical contact without it seeming like a big deal and the story allows you to indirectly drop important information "value" on yourself : you travel, youre experienced, cultured....interesting. That is the most important thing to "be" if you want to create "attraction". The worst thing to be is boring Youre going to need stories to tell (but thats another topic)

3. Look her in the eye when speaking to her. Holding eye contact is super important. When she's talking alternate between her eyes and her lips. This is very suggestive to girls. They know you want to fuck their mouth and are thinking about it but the fact that its not being talked about is very exciting....the opposite of boring

4. Sexual-ize the conversation subtly as quickly as possible. For example for years I used a routine I called "Evan and Mongo" (this works really well with groups of two or more girls) Basically Id ask girls what they wanted in a guy (this is automatically leading the discussion towards sex...the most interesting subject there is to girls) . Id always get the "Im looking for a guy who's funny, sensitive, smart....yadayadayada" Then Id say "ok Well I have two friends Evan and Mongo. Tell me which one sounds more interesting to you. Evan is sensitive guy who writes poetry, plays acoustic guitar, does volunteer work at the homeless shelter,,,,blah bla blah" Basically to girls this guy sounds like a boring phag

Her/them "What about the other guy, what's his name?...Mongo?"

This is where I'd smile to myself

PT "Well Mongo is the complete opposite of Evan. He's more of a cave man"


Her "Oooh how so?"

PT "Well Mongo is the kind of guy that will just come over to your house, pull you down by your hair (if possible reach around the back of her /their head(s) and grab a palm full of hair as a demonstration), rip your clothes off and jungle fuck the shit out of you within an inch of your life"

Girls reactions then progress from



to



then



"OMG!.."

Convo sexualization achievement unlocked. Note though I did this indirectly by making it about third parties (Evan and Mongo) they know that I knowwhat's up. From there its a playful mock hair pulling, grab assing, manhandling and a very short transition to make out then bang. Pulled a few 3 ways this way

Customized for situation, personalty, etc...this was my go to for years

Hope this helps

Play on[/quote]

[Genghis Khan]

This was on Tinder, so might not mean much - still, I figure it might be a good learning opportunity:

I wanted to be more direct:

me (first message): "I don't have time for this Tinder shit. Let's fuck" (h/t to Rocha who I got this idea from)
her: "straightforward, I like it"
me: "My phone number is XXX. Text me, we'll set up plans for tonight"
her: "how would you rate yourself on 1-10?" (the shit test)

I wasn't sure how to respond, so I decided to just ignore:

me: "Text me"

She unmatched me.

How would you guys have responded to the "Rate yourself" question?

[Genghis Khan]

(04-02-2018 04:51 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Looking for a girlfriend is the best way never to have one. This is especially true in the 18-25 yo western girl demographic (Am I correct in assuming the age group youre targeting?)

The vast majority of younger girls aren't looking for a "boyfriend". They're looking for:

1.) Attention
2.) Validation
3.) Fun
4.) Experiences

...pretty much in that order. The irony is that they end up wanting the guys that provide those elements, but are less emotionally "invested", to be their boyfriend.

You need to forget relationships for now because those thoughts are like a gas leak when you interact with new girls. They can smell it and they are repulsed by it

Thanks for this. Every now and then, I need to be reminded of this.

[realologist]

(04-02-2018 05:52 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

This was on Tinder, so might not mean much - still, I figure it might be a good learning opportunity:

I wanted to be more direct:

me (first message): "I don't have time for this Tinder shit. Let's fuck" (h/t to Rocha who I got this idea from)
her: "straightforward, I like it"
me: "My phone number is XXX. Text me, we'll set up plans for tonight"
her: "how would you rate yourself on 1-10?" (the shit test)

I wasn't sure how to respond, so I decided to just ignore:

me: "Text me"

She unmatched me.

How would you guys have responded to the "Rate yourself" question?

"I'm so ugly I broke the scale" or some variation.

[Hazaer]

(04-02-2018 02:00 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

(03-30-2018 10:46 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

----->the only thing that matters is what she feels in response to what you say.[/i]<-------

Do you see the difference?

So the question isn't "what do I say?"

The question youre looking for is "What do I want her to feel?"

+1 (edit: already rated you)
This is the soul essence of seduction. You aren't going to logic her into giving the pussy up. You can't make sense outta nonsense.
Some people are able to do most of the seduction from across the room without ever laying eyes on the girl first. Body language, presence, how they dress.
When they see the girl: eye contact, body positioning, smile, etc
When they talk to them: body positioning, kino, spacing, sitting or standing, etc.

These things reach for a girls feelings and make her subconsciously feel some type of way about you as a mate. This stuff eventually works its way into some secret society shit but I digress.

My advice: step up your non verbal communication to create feelings. If your verbal game is on point but you're non-verbal is off she will pick up on it. XX chromosomes=double dose of intuition

(03-31-2018 05:36 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

Update: She replied with 'hey man how is it going?' Something was off about the message but I replied saying I got some wine I wanted to try with her and if she was up for wine tasting. She replies 'sorry but i am busy...'

Dont know if that convo was the reason. Or maybe it was some advanced form of attention seeking behavior I dont know about that 1st years engage in. Wasnt really attracted to her so well, its her loss I guess.

(03-31-2018 05:04 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 11:33 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Edit: If you still want to bang her you have one more shot. Next time you see her make a direct move (number, coffee, Netflix...whatever). She needs to know that youre thinking of her as a sexual target (discreetly of course) in order for her attraction wiring to kick in.

You either

-You care more (not the girl as much as about this opportunity) than you let on and therefore were afraid to wait try in person

or

- You are missing some some fundamental understanding of attraction principles.

Combination of the last two and being too patient. Whether or not you waited on the guy to be gone in her eyes you kinda did.=youre not a man

You didn't pick up that she was available and even stuck up for the other guy= you're not interested and/or not a man

She texted you on some friendzone shit and didn't shut it down or display some high value= not a man and/or uninteresting
(ps. the wine comment is for when you know the sexual attraction is there. without the escalation its kinda weird/creepy)

You've let off a string of non-assertivenss and in my experience thats hard to recover from. Its like she was in your bed and you didn't go for the kill. I've never made it back from that.

I do think PT is right and that you can win this but I don't necessarily agree with the process.
It doesnt matter at this time that she sees you as a sexual being or not--youve shown multiple times that you aren't. Direct is the logical assessment and puts the ball in her court if you've helped her see she needs to shot the shot--homie has not helped her see that.
The nonsensical move would be low key show some interest in one/multiple friends of hers--shows you do have the balls to go for what you are attracted to while simultaneously causing her to wonder why she couldn't get you to do that...now she has to chase to prove her attractiveness.

She is now friendzoned without you saying it and this will create the image of you as a sexual being even though its with her friends. Get the girls out to a party or something and try to seduce them while keeping old girl involved in he festivities but freezing her out. Women are territorial and if she starts competing good for you if not you've got new prospects so who cares.
The trick her is getting her to get her friends out without her taking your attraction to them personally and tanking it.

(04-02-2018 04:51 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-02-2018 02:00 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

I do think PT is right and that you can win this but I don't necessarily agree with the process.

I think he unadvisedly fired his shot via text.

I think given what happened and the additional info about this girl a near "apocalyptic option" is likely the only thing worth trying. Full on direct with only the thinnest veil of plausible deniability. The following (sample) exchange has worked several times for me:

Note: This has to be done in person, with no one else around and logistics have to be air tight (close by, and private).

And caution must be done with extreme confidence and playfulness. Not for the feint of heart (Full disclosure- I did this kind of stuff when I was younger, half drunk, and during a different time)

PT "Hey"

Her "Oh hey"

PT "Whats wrong with your hair?"

Her "Huh...errr what do you mean?"

PT "Come here...turn around"

When she does slide fingers up the back of her head and grab a palm full of hair then give it a good gentle but firm tug.

Her "What the ?"

PT Looking straight into her eyes "You had something in your hair"...smirk "Was I wrong?"

If she laughs its game on

Change the subject

PT "Want to come over and watch a movie / glass of wine?"

She now knows without a doubt you know whats up. She's either into it or not

(04-01-2018 10:41 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(03-31-2018 09:06 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

Prefers hanging out with guys rather than girls. Huge red flag.

Yeah it is. Having any kind of relationship with her is actually not recommended considering all the factors. I remember her also mentioning that she is in the army reserve or something. Guess that might be why she is more used to hanging with guys and therefore tougher to game but also less appealing in a way. Actually, now that I think about it, I got to next her. But it is worth learning from this experience and use the knowledge on other more feminine girls, if there still are, in australia..

Hazaer

Again Im not trying to rag on you but...there's thirst leaking into your game. The fact that you would even start to consider whether a girl is LTR worthy before you've gone on a date much less even banged is a strong tell.

If I can pick up on via your writing...what do you think girls are getting from you in your interactions?

Looking for a girlfriend is the best way never to have one. This is especially true in the 18-25 yo western girl demographic (Am I correct in assuming the age group youre targeting?)

The vast majority of younger girls arent looking for a "boyfriend". They're looking for:

1.) Attention
2.) Validation
3.) Fun
4.) Experiences

...pretty much in that order. The irony is that they end up wanting the guys that provide those elements, but are less emotionally "invested", to be their boyfriend.

I'll elaborate on the aforementioned "attraction fundamentals" in a subsequent post but for now...

In boot camp they breakdown new recruits so that they can be built back up "correctly"

Step 1. Make having sex, one time, with a girl your primary goal. (You cant bang a girl for the 2nd, time much less subsequent times until after the first time right?)

You need to forget relationships for now because those thoughts are like a gas leak when you interact with new girls. They can smell it and they are repulsed by it

Yeah, at this point, she must be feeling pretty weird/confused. You are right in saying that hitting on her friends might work. Infact one of her friends was always chatting me up when they were together. I guess that made her more interested.

When i meant relationships, it included the ONS as well. She is kind of average interms of attractiveness to me but when I list her attributes, like hanging out with guys most of the time, being in the military etc., I find that her attractiveness going below the average level even for a ONS let alone a longer term relationship so i don't know if I am still interested in her enough. And her having minimal friends who are girls who are nothing to write about does not help. It is a good idea to go direct when I catch her alone again but the best chance for this semester has probably just passed.

The issue for me has been that when I start talking to a girl with the intent of making plans to hang out after getting IOIs, thats when her attraction quickly wanes. I am coming to realize that like the others have mentioned, I tend to talk too much in a way that contradicts the image I have given them before while also losing track of making plans to meet later. I learnt the hard way that the key is not to follow her lead in the convo topics but try to bring it back to attraction building topics or go into making plans to meet in a better setting. Using material/lines/routines that you guys mentioned above might establish attraction while reducing the chance of saying something that might kill the attraction. In this case, i didnt do that because I thought she was pretty into me already so the convo went into directions that it shouldnt have gone into.

[Dulceácido]

You're seriously over-thinking this Hazaer.

Obviously you've, at least some knowledge of pick up, but you haven't put in the groundwork. This reminds me of back in the old days when dudes would read the Mystery Method and completely geek out on terms of reference and statistics, but put no time into actually approaching girls and learning from that.
There are some things that are only going to come with experience--and not just experience in pick up. Just experience in life. "Materials/lines/routines" are history, Man. Can you still pull it off from time to time? Yeah. But, that's not what Game is about now. There's no more fake earrings, wigs, top hats, magic tricks--none of that shit. If you pull that stuff off, can it still work, maybe, but you look like a fool. Make yourself more valuable. That's what it's really about. After that, her "attention wanes" stuff is down the drain. Be the most interesting person in the room.

[Mufasa]

(04-02-2018 05:52 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

me (first message): "I don't have time for this Tinder shit. Let's fuck" (h/t to Rocha who I got this idea from)
her: "straightforward, I like it"
me: "My phone number is XXX. Text me, we'll set up plans for tonight"
her: "how would you rate yourself on 1-10?" (the shit test)

Me: nice try
thought you were going to avoid my question like that (thinking emoji and winking emoji)
Nope whats your #

Also the "lets fuck" is very nuclear and definitely forces her to buy or not but after that at any point the ASD could sky rocket and tank you. Go with something more subtle that leads to sex.

"Drinks"
"wine"
"dinner at my place"
"hang out"

[Dulceácido]

(04-02-2018 05:52 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

This was on Tinder, so might not mean much - still, I figure it might be a good learning opportunity:

I wanted to be more direct:

me (first message): "I don't have time for this Tinder shit. Let's fuck" (h/t to Rocha who I got this idea from)
her: "straightforward, I like it"
me: "My phone number is XXX. Text me, we'll set up plans for tonight"
her: "how would you rate yourself on 1-10?" (the shit test)

I wasn't sure how to respond, so I decided to just ignore:

me: "Text me"

She unmatched me.

How would you guys have responded to the "Rate yourself" question?

I would have said, I'm sorry, if you're going to give me an "interview," then you have to read and agree to the terms and conditions of my services.

First part of the agreement is that I don't respond to stupid questions or demands.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-02-2018 05:52 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

This was on Tinder, so might not mean much - still, I figure it might be a good learning opportunity:

I wanted to be more direct:

me (first message): "I don't have time for this Tinder shit. Let's fuck" (h/t to Rocha who I got this idea from)
her: "straightforward, I like it"
me: + at ABC Bar 9pm C U there.

^ Fixed

[Hazaer]

(04-02-2018 10:54 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

You're seriously over-thinking this Hazaer.

Obviously you've, at least some knowledge of pick up, but you haven't put in the groundwork. This reminds me of back in the old days when dudes would read the Mystery Method and completely geek out on terms of reference and statistics, but put no time into actually approaching girls and learning from that.
There are some things that are only going to come with experience--and not just experience in pick up. Just experience in life. "Materials/lines/routines" are history, Man. Can you still pull it off from time to time? Yeah. But, that's not what Game is about now. There's no more fake earrings, wigs, top hats, magic tricks--none of that shit. If you pull that stuff off, can it still work, maybe, but you look like a fool. Make yourself more valuable. That's what it's really about. After that, her "attention wanes" stuff is down the drain. Be the most interesting person in the room.

Its true that some routines+confidence will go a long way and I have experienced it myself but for some reason despite the attraction that created, when it comes to the actual escalation for isolation, she backs out most of the time unless she was escalating in the first place. But its also true that I havent put in the groundwork as much as I would like partly because of the amount of orbiters around a girl at anytime where I am at and the resulting entitled attitude/lack of manners from girls to any guy other than the guy she was interested in from the start.

Back to this example, the one that didnt respond to the txt. She appears again after 2-3 days and is looking to start convo with me as if nothing happened. I am keeping it disinterested at the moment. This kind of IOI after rejecting a first date has been a pattern for me from most girls. Why do you reckon girls do that? Engaging her even with better game means that you got to set up a date a second time at some point and might get rejected a second time.
I am not really into being their friends but it makes me think if some girls just want to appear friendly so that they can feel better about rejecting the guy, smooth things out and possibly add him into their orbiter circle.
Have you guys experienced it?

[Mufasa]

(04-04-2018 06:06 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

for some reason despite the attraction that created, when it comes to the actual escalation for isolation, she backs out most of the time unless she was escalating in the first place.

she's judging you on your entire body of work and stringing you along for attention.
A big part of game that I learned is to present yourself as a sexual being first. If you don't/didnt do that then when its time to be interested it needs to be a noticeable change in demeanor (to show you do in fact go after what you want).

Also I feel like you're trying to lead without knowing how? Escalation is more non-verbal like PT said earlier, youre trying to escalate her feelings not the dialogue.
leading is very non-verbal in itself. A rockstar doesnt wait till he's checked all the boxes before he moves venues he just does it. That leadership and her complying is a psychological and sexual escalation. if she pulls away or doesnt follow you just shrug it off--they usually will follow because its interesting and its a behavior that they don't experience often.

Quote:

But its also true that I havent put in the groundwork as much as I would like partly because of the amount of orbiters around a girl at anytime where I am at and the resulting entitled attitude/lack of manners from girls to any guy other than the guy she was interested in from the start.

would this stop a king or a millionaire from approaching? Do you need something to validate your worth so she would be receptive? Are you working on it?

Quote:

Back to this example, the one that didnt respond to the txt. She appears again after 2-3 days and is looking to start convo with me as if nothing happened. I am keeping it disinterested at the moment.

1) call her out on it. The sole purpose here is to set the precedent that she doesnt get to treat you like an orbiter--set yourself apart. shut down her friendzone shit; do not ask her out. In a womans world they associate men with experiences: the fun guy, the sex guy, the weird guy. You are trying to make her feel like she is the "mean girl" in an effort to spark her chasing you

or

2) avoid her with purpose--non verbal. you see her coming turn around and walk away or alter your path. Seeing her and going into your call phone is a good move as well.

Chasing isn't going to win her over at this point, you have to spark the chase.

Quote:

This kind of IOI after rejecting a first date has been a pattern for me from most girls. Why do you reckon girls do that? Engaging her even with better game means that you got to set up a date a second time at some point and might get rejected a second time.
I am not really into being their friends but it makes me think if some girls just want to appear friendly so that they can feel better about rejecting the guy, smooth things out and possibly add him into their orbiter circle.
Have you guys experienced it?

Youre right about something finally lol
They do it to see if you are like every other spineless man that will let a weaker woman walk all over you or are you an alpha man that will put her in her place (you can nicely and non-chalantly put them in their place as well).

Yes we all have, you have to experience it and be out in the field testing what doesnt work so you can find what works

[Hazaer]

(04-04-2018 11:05 AM)Mufasa Wrote:  

(04-04-2018 06:06 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

for some reason despite the attraction that created, when it comes to the actual escalation for isolation, she backs out most of the time unless she was escalating in the first place.

she's judging you on your entire body of work and stringing you along for attention.
A big part of game that I learned is to present yourself as a sexual being first. If you don't/didnt do that then when its time to be interested it needs to be a noticeable change in demeanor (to show you do in fact go after what you want).

Also I feel like you're trying to lead without knowing how? Escalation is more non-verbal like PT said earlier, youre trying to escalate her feelings not the dialogue.
leading is very non-verbal in itself. A rockstar doesnt wait till he's checked all the boxes before he moves venues he just does it. That leadership and her complying is a psychological and sexual escalation. if she pulls away or doesnt follow you just shrug it off--they usually will follow because its interesting and its a behavior that they don't experience often.

Quote:

But its also true that I havent put in the groundwork as much as I would like partly because of the amount of orbiters around a girl at anytime where I am at and the resulting entitled attitude/lack of manners from girls to any guy other than the guy she was interested in from the start.

would this stop a king or a millionaire from approaching? Do you need something to validate your worth so she would be receptive? Are you working on it?

Quote:

Back to this example, the one that didnt respond to the txt. She appears again after 2-3 days and is looking to start convo with me as if nothing happened. I am keeping it disinterested at the moment.

1) call her out on it. The sole purpose here is to set the precedent that she doesnt get to treat you like an orbiter--set yourself apart. shut down her friendzone shit; do not ask her out. In a womans world they associate men with experiences: the fun guy, the sex guy, the weird guy. You are trying to make her feel like she is the "mean girl" in an effort to spark her chasing you

or

2) avoid her with purpose--non verbal. you see her coming turn around and walk away or alter your path. Seeing her and going into your call phone is a good move as well.

Chasing isn't going to win her over at this point, you have to spark the chase.

Quote:

This kind of IOI after rejecting a first date has been a pattern for me from most girls. Why do you reckon girls do that? Engaging her even with better game means that you got to set up a date a second time at some point and might get rejected a second time.
I am not really into being their friends but it makes me think if some girls just want to appear friendly so that they can feel better about rejecting the guy, smooth things out and possibly add him into their orbiter circle.
Have you guys experienced it?

Youre right about something finally lol
They do it to see if you are like every other spineless man that will let a weaker woman walk all over you or are you an alpha man that will put her in her place (you can nicely and non-chalantly put them in their place as well).

Yes we all have, you have to experience it and be out in the field testing what doesnt work so you can find what works

You are right man. Now that I think about the times, I tried to isolate, it might have looked like I was somehow waiting for her to agree to it. I should just start moving in that direction I am proposing to go without looking like I am waiting for her to say something.

Things like calling her out on that and especially ignoring in an obvious manner can be quite risky because it can look as if you are butthurt. Normally, I prefer just being disinterested and giving her the barest niceties upon running into her.

Also, what do you mean by her chasing you? Is it just initiating convo or her throwing looks at you or are her suggesting a date in some manner? I would think that after a first reject to a date, her re-starting convo would not be considered chasing. She has got to do something more but at what point can the guy know that he is not going to be rejected again by asking her to hangout again? Acting disinterested and putting her down will definitely increase her attraction but how do you know when to go for the isolation move again or do you even make a move after some time?

Edit to my previous post: She replied she was busy this weekend but didnt propose another time but i guess its about the same as not replying

[Dulceácido]

(04-05-2018 07:10 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

You are right man. Now that I think about the times, I tried to isolate, it might have looked like I was somehow waiting for her to agree to it. I should just start moving in that direction I am proposing to go without looking like I am waiting for her to say something.

Things like calling her out on that and especially ignoring in an obvious manner can be quite risky because it can look as if you are butthurt. Normally, I prefer just being disinterested and giving her the barest niceties upon running into her.

Also, what do you mean by her chasing you? Is it just initiating convo or her throwing looks at you or are her suggesting a date in some manner? I would think that after a first reject to a date, her re-starting convo would not be considered chasing. She has got to do something more but at what point can the guy know that he is not going to be rejected again by asking her to hangout again? Acting disinterested and putting her down will definitely increase her attraction but how do you know when to go for the isolation move again or do you even make a move after some time?

Edit to my previous post: She replied she was busy this weekend but didnt propose another time but i guess its about the same as not replying

You know what would work great for you, Man? Do you have just one friend that is an attractive female who you can semi trust or she just loves playing games? A female wing would work wonders in this situation. You could teach her a little game and have her give you social validation or you could go nuclear, introduce them, and have her pretend to be secretly crushing on you... If the other girl likes she'll be triggered for sure.

[Hazaer]

(04-06-2018 08:50 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 07:10 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

You are right man. Now that I think about the times, I tried to isolate, it might have looked like I was somehow waiting for her to agree to it. I should just start moving in that direction I am proposing to go without looking like I am waiting for her to say something.

Things like calling her out on that and especially ignoring in an obvious manner can be quite risky because it can look as if you are butthurt. Normally, I prefer just being disinterested and giving her the barest niceties upon running into her.

Also, what do you mean by her chasing you? Is it just initiating convo or her throwing looks at you or are her suggesting a date in some manner? I would think that after a first reject to a date, her re-starting convo would not be considered chasing. She has got to do something more but at what point can the guy know that he is not going to be rejected again by asking her to hangout again? Acting disinterested and putting her down will definitely increase her attraction but how do you know when to go for the isolation move again or do you even make a move after some time?

Edit to my previous post: She replied she was busy this weekend but didnt propose another time but i guess its about the same as not replying

You know what would work great for you, Man? Do you have just one friend that is an attractive female who you can semi trust or she just loves playing games? A female wing would work wonders in this situation. You could teach her a little game and have her give you social validation or you could go nuclear, introduce them, and have her pretend to be secretly crushing on you... If the other girl likes she'll be triggered for sure.

You don't even have to say anything sometimes. Just you with one or more girls will get you attention and then its a simple exercise of talking to her. The amount of game required would not have to be high. I won't go as far as teaching girls game though, lets keep it a secret haha.

But I think the bigger question is as I said above is, given how many guys there are, esp in the anglosphere who don't have any close female friends, it is important to know when to try again, if at all after a rejection a first time. You freeze her out after the first reject and she almost always will give out more IOIs and you game accordingly. But, will there be a point of time you will ask her out again and how do you time it for success the second time round?

[Hazaer]

Like this girl I was talking about, today, she saw me talking to some other girls while she was with her friends watching a movie. Then, she changed her seating position to seat closer where I was. Then as I was passing her to go on, she turns her head quickly in my direction and I said 'Hi' and she quickly turns back mumbling 'Hello'. I don't know what to make of this wishy-washy behavior. Does she really expect me to make another move to call her out again?

Obviously, the general advice is to move on after the first rejection and that still has to go on regardless, but there isn't much here about what happens if she continues displaying interest and how to distinguish attention seeking behavior from interest after she has said no (perhaps due to bad game the first time) to a hangout once.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-04-2018 06:06 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

Back to this example, the one that didnt respond to the txt. She appears again after 2-3 days and is looking to start convo with me as if nothing happened. I am keeping it disinterested at the moment. This kind of IOI after rejecting a first date has been a pattern for me from most girls. Why do you reckon girls do that? Engaging her even with better game means that you got to set up a date a second time at some point and might get rejected a second time.
I am not really into being their friends but it makes me think if some girls just want to appear friendly so that they can feel better about rejecting the guy, smooth things out and possibly add him into their orbiter circle.
Have you guys experienced it?

You care more about the outcome than she does. Girl's game recognized

[Dalaran1991]

For me the biggest shit test is still the most fundamental one: eye contact.

Ive managed to do a lot of the heavy lifting with girls thanks to just eye contact, but got caught off guard today.

At a bar tonight talking to some new friends including an incredibly aggressive "thousand cock stare" girl for some banter. We were talking about dating martial artist and she talked about some one finger strike that hurts like hell. I look at her with suggestive eyes and said "Anything that gives pain can also gives pleasure, you know" Wasnt flirting or anything, I was on auto-pilot.

She gave me the biggest wildest eyes and look me straight through like she wanna grab my soul and tear it open "I love it when you say it that way"

I held eye contact with a victorious smirk, but lost it and looked away first.

It was a small thing but for me I lost the dominance battle. It still went relatively well, she was telling her friend "you should be more like Dalaran" but I have nothing to show for it.

Gotta nail down the basics like reflexes.

[PapayaTapper]

Its apparent that some guys aren't "getting it"

Its ok for a girl to know that you want to fuck her. In fact she NEEDS to know that you do. The "aloof / indifferent" factor ONLY affects the exchange when she knows that you don't give a shit if if you don't.

[Hazaer]

(04-04-2018 06:06 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(04-02-2018 10:54 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

You're seriously over-thinking this Hazaer.

Obviously you've, at least some knowledge of pick up, but you haven't put in the groundwork. This reminds me of back in the old days when dudes would read the Mystery Method and completely geek out on terms of reference and statistics, but put no time into actually approaching girls and learning from that.
There are some things that are only going to come with experience--and not just experience in pick up. Just experience in life. "Materials/lines/routines" are history, Man. Can you still pull it off from time to time? Yeah. But, that's not what Game is about now. There's no more fake earrings, wigs, top hats, magic tricks--none of that shit. If you pull that stuff off, can it still work, maybe, but you look like a fool. Make yourself more valuable. That's what it's really about. After that, her "attention wanes" stuff is down the drain. Be the most interesting person in the room.

Its true that some routines+confidence will go a long way and I have experienced it myself but for some reason despite the attraction that created, when it comes to the actual escalation for isolation, she backs out most of the time unless she was escalating in the first place. But its also true that I havent put in the groundwork as much as I would like partly because of the amount of orbiters around a girl at anytime where I am at and the resulting entitled attitude/lack of manners from girls to any guy other than the guy she was interested in from the start.

Back to this example, the one that didnt respond to the txt. She appears again after 2-3 days and is looking to start convo with me as if nothing happened. I am keeping it disinterested at the moment. This kind of IOI after rejecting a first date has been a pattern for me from most girls. Why do you reckon girls do that? Engaging her even with better game means that you got to set up a date a second time at some point and might get rejected a second time.
I am not really into being their friends but it makes me think if some girls just want to appear friendly so that they can feel better about rejecting the guy, smooth things out and possibly add him into their orbiter circle.
Have you guys experienced it?

(04-07-2018 07:21 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(04-06-2018 08:50 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 07:10 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

You are right man. Now that I think about the times, I tried to isolate, it might have looked like I was somehow waiting for her to agree to it. I should just start moving in that direction I am proposing to go without looking like I am waiting for her to say something.

Things like calling her out on that and especially ignoring in an obvious manner can be quite risky because it can look as if you are butthurt. Normally, I prefer just being disinterested and giving her the barest niceties upon running into her.

Also, what do you mean by her chasing you? Is it just initiating convo or her throwing looks at you or are her suggesting a date in some manner? I would think that after a first reject to a date, her re-starting convo would not be considered chasing. She has got to do something more but at what point can the guy know that he is not going to be rejected again by asking her to hangout again? Acting disinterested and putting her down will definitely increase her attraction but how do you know when to go for the isolation move again or do you even make a move after some time?

Edit to my previous post: She replied she was busy this weekend but didnt propose another time but i guess its about the same as not replying

You know what would work great for you, Man? Do you have just one friend that is an attractive female who you can semi trust or she just loves playing games? A female wing would work wonders in this situation. You could teach her a little game and have her give you social validation or you could go nuclear, introduce them, and have her pretend to be secretly crushing on you... If the other girl likes she'll be triggered for sure.

You don't even have to say anything sometimes. Just you with one or more girls will get you attention and then its a simple exercise of talking to her. The amount of game required would not have to be high. I won't go as far as teaching girls game though, lets keep it a secret haha.

But I think the bigger question is as I said above is, given how many guys there are, esp in the anglosphere who don't have any close female friends, it is important to know when to try again, if at all after a rejection a first time. You freeze her out after the first reject and she almost always will give out more IOIs and you game accordingly. But, will there be a point of time you will ask her out again and how do you time it for success the second time round?

(04-07-2018 10:01 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Its apparent that some guys aren't "getting it"

Its ok for a girl to know that you want to fuck her. In fact she NEEDS to know that you do. The "aloof / indifferent" factor ONLY affects the exchange when she knows that you don't give a shit if if you don't.

Doesnt every girl have to know that you dont give a damn even if nothing happens?

Often, there is no need to be aloof, especially for first interactions with a girl. But when she shows poor manners like not replying to texts or she rebuffs a date, it helps to be distant to somewhat create that pull. The question is how and when to then escalate after this period of aloofness.

Infact, I dont know if being aloof actually helps at all apart from not making you look needy like every other guy. In the end, it probably might spike her interest but is she really going to say yes to your advance the next time after your disinterested behavior?

[RedPillUK]

(03-31-2018 08:52 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(03-31-2018 10:34 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

"Hey man how is it going" = You have been friendzoned.

No more Mr. Nice Guy from now on.

I still think it's possible to turn this around, just be more of a dick and don't take her seriously at all. Definitely do not be her friend.

Do you mean acting aloof and disinterested? She doesn't usually talk to me when her friends are around except for 'Hi'. And there are tons of orbiters around her. For some reason, she also prefers hanging out with guys than girls. Also, would you try again if the girl rejected you once? I don't know if its worth it for most girls to be honest although I agree I got to rebuild the frame with her after what happened.

Yeah, i kind of thought that her reply was not good but I carried on with the wine idea to get away from the friendzone and also express the intent even though I knew there was a big chance of rejection. Hopefully, she is at least confused by the mixed message haha

I only just read through the rest of this thread and noticed your reply.

Yeah I would go for it again, what have I got to lose?

But not in this wishy washy playing game type thing that's been talked about on the last page which I don't really understand.

It looks butthurt ignoring her on purpose. You don't need to act aloof and disinterested, just not like an eager puppy. You shouldn't really have to act here, it should just be natural.

I also would not try that funny hair pulling routine on this girl. It will most likely come off as extremely incongruent and weird for you judging from your posts. Maybe if it fits your personality and with a new girl in the future though.

I would just call her out in person, I would talk to her for one minute (I don't do too much small talk with girls I'm not seeing) before I would playfully tease her for rejecting that date and tell her she needs to plan something better to make it up for it. Maybe even joke about the great time you missed. (This shit works when you're good at making people laugh).

You get extra points for having balls if her orbiter friends are around, they're not your friends, so fuck what they think.

Then if she tries to laugh it off and reject me again, I would still not be angry or upset, I would probably just tell her she's boring and neg her for being a masculine butch army girl and go do something else.

It seems you had another chance to do this and you didn't say anything about it at all? Like you were the one who was acting as if nothing happened. Girls act that way because they're girls and they don't want to make things awkward. You have to be a man and defy social conventions and take risks sometimes.

HOWEVER, if she texts you first, then it would be ok to do this through text.

By the way, if I was trying to get with this girl I would be taking the piss out of her masculine ways every single chance I get. She needs to feel insecure about that so she at least acts like a girl around me.

Being with more feminine latina girls has made me very spoilt. I need a girl to be feminine for the attraction to spark for both of us. Otherwise our relationship is just like a couple of male friends and never goes anywhere.

Recently I met this tall Australian girl, very attractive maybe a 7, I was sharing a kitchen with her. She was very friendly and generous and she asked for my phone number so we could hang out. That right there is enough normally to think a girl is interested in you, however I was turned off due to the following things:

She's Australian.
I never saw her cook anything apart from eggs a couple times, and she praised my Mexican friend as being a really great chef, implying she couldn't cook.
She drank beer most nights.
She said she was in an open relationship.
My friends said she got really angry when drunk.

Even though she looks prettier than the girl I'm currently seeing, I know from experience I do not do well with these types of masculine girls, especially if they're taller than me.

Add the fact that the one you're talking about is from the army and has a group of orbiters, she may as well be a dude, it doesn't matter how attractive she is. I think it would make sex awkward and a relationship even more awkward.

I didn't even bother trying to game her, it probably would have been pointless anyway and I just kept it to friendly conversations. If I was trying to game her I would actually have to take bigger risks in conversation like I've been talking about.