[Noir]

@Vaun, I understand your point.

Just for discussions sake, are the signals you gave her the same ones you would give to the other girls you would pull the trigger on sooner?

Were you giving off vibes that you were DTF on the first date?

As for holding back vs being the sexual instigator, it's never binary in my opinion.

This is where push/pull comes in, you know when to pull (be sexual/instigate) and to push (be aloof etc.). It's a balance and your ability to implement this on the fly would increase probabilities of the interaction going your way. Redirect the sexual energy into playful tension.

Very interesting case though, thanks for sharing.

[PapayaTapper]

Noir carpet bombing this thread with gold

Vaun

It seems like there are two primary issues youre dealing with.

1. The age of the women

2. Youre emotional responses

(02-07-2018 10:35 AM)Noir Wrote:  

@Vaun

Completely understandable and I would assume those are the dynamics of dealing with older women. They have a shorter fuse and are more pressured by time that it manifests in their behaviour. Higher frequency of shit tests, rough around the edges and a general qualifying tone as they sift through their net of guys they caught and discard the ones who don't fit in with their ideal perception.

1. "They have a shorter fuse"

This cant be overly emphasized. A woman who's 35, attractive and unmarried has a hair trigger when it comes to what she imagines is "BS"...especially early on. They approach every new encounter with men all their accumulated baggage and expect to be eventually confronted by the fact that "men are all the same". Deep down its not even that they are disappointed as much as relieved that they (the men) are the reason for her status. I noticed this myself a few years ago when I came out of an LTR and started dating again. I met a handful of attractive 30 somethings but the level of bitterness, cynicism and negativity that was so close to the surface was startling when compared to girls under 25.

IMO* at 42 you should (and can) be going 15-20 years younger. Especially if you plan to have more kids.

*(For the record Im 46 and my current GF of 2 years is a 8/9 EE 25 yo thats sweet as pie)


2. Changing your reactions / emotional responses is doable if you first understand their source: past experiences

One way to define life is to describe it as a long series of experiences. From before we are born to the present moment, we have had one experience after another. Some were pleasant, others not so pleasant. As a child you may have been playing on a swing set and fallen off. As a teenager, you may have taken a great trip to another country. As a young adult, you may have fallen in love. Whatever our personal experiences have been, each one has left an indelible mark on our subconscious minds.

What this boils down to is that we all have pre-programmed unconscious reactions to anything we have had an encounter with in our past. Changing reactions requires reprogramming the subconscious

Are you familiar with NLP?

[Vaun]

PT and Noir, great responses, much appreciated.

I encounter a lot of early-mid-late 30's unmarried, highly attractive women, context is key. I've also dated a of women in their 20's. One is pursuing an LTR with me now, but I am not giving it to her back, 14 years my junior.

When this shit test hit me from the 35 yo, I took it personally. I got mad and dumped her instantly over text, after the date ended. This girl was texting me all the time, begging me to kiss her and touch her, asking to see me all the time.

Like before, with these older women, they meet me then push hard for sex/bonding out of the gate. They see me as boyfriend material, and go 100mph right out of the gate. That usually freaks me out. I have dumped several, like this. Shes in her 30's, we meet, we connect, it goes really fast, I bounce. I dont intend for this to happen, but the speed of everything really turns me off. I have had many in this 30's age range tell me they loved me unprovoked, I've been asked to marry them, they ask and push to move in together, etc etc etc.

So when this shit test happened, I had to ask myself "Is it me??" Am I giving off a vibe as to show I would accept this type of behavior? Maybe thats why I got so mad about it. But I am just being me, and I really dont want to change my personality. If a woman shows me this side of her personality so early on, maybe I am intuitively dodging bulleits.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

(02-18-2018 12:14 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

PT and Noir, great responses, much appreciated.

I encounter a lot of early-mid-late 30's unmarried, highly attractive women, context is key. I've also dated a of women in their 20's. One is pursuing an LTR with me now, but I am not giving it to her back, 14 years my junior.

When this shit test hit me from the 35 yo, I took it personally. I got mad and dumped her instantly over text, after the date ended. This girl was texting me all the time, begging me to kiss her and touch her, asking to see me all the time.

Like before, with these older women, they meet me then push hard for sex/bonding out of the gate. They see me as boyfriend material, and go 100mph right out of the gate. That usually freaks me out. I have dumped several, like this. Shes in her 30's, we meet, we connect, it goes really fast, I bounce. I dont intend for this to happen, but the speed of everything really turns me off. I have had many in this 30's age range tell me they loved me unprovoked, I've been asked to marry them, they ask and push to move in together, etc etc etc.

So when this shit test happened, I had to ask myself "Is it me??" Am I giving off a vibe as to show I would accept this type of behavior? Maybe thats why I got so mad about it. But I am just being me, and I really dont want to change my personality. If a woman shows me this side of her personality so early on, maybe I am intuitively dodging bulleits.

It's not you bro it's those women in their 30s. You seem like a decent guy to them so they latch onto you like a facehugger from alien so that you will wife them up.

At that stage in their life their biological clock ticking and know they're not in their prime. With their looks are quickly deteriorating they need to find a decent guy ASAP before they get too bad.

AKA "hitting the wall"

I avoid women 28+ like the plague for this reason.

[PapayaTapper]

(02-22-2018 02:19 PM)Mr. Bigglesworth Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 12:14 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

PT and Noir, great responses, much appreciated.

I encounter a lot of early-mid-late 30's unmarried, highly attractive women, context is key. I've also dated a of women in their 20's. One is pursuing an LTR with me now, but I am not giving it to her back, 14 years my junior.

When this shit test hit me from the 35 yo, I took it personally. I got mad and dumped her instantly over text, after the date ended. This girl was texting me all the time, begging me to kiss her and touch her, asking to see me all the time.

Like before, with these older women, they meet me then push hard for sex/bonding out of the gate. They see me as boyfriend material, and go 100mph right out of the gate. That usually freaks me out. I have dumped several, like this. Shes in her 30's, we meet, we connect, it goes really fast, I bounce. I dont intend for this to happen, but the speed of everything really turns me off. I have had many in this 30's age range tell me they loved me unprovoked, I've been asked to marry them, they ask and push to move in together, etc etc etc.

So when this shit test happened, I had to ask myself "Is it me??" Am I giving off a vibe as to show I would accept this type of behavior? Maybe thats why I got so mad about it. But I am just being me, and I really dont want to change my personality. If a woman shows me this side of her personality so early on, maybe I am intuitively dodging bulleits.

It's not you bro it's those women in their 30s. You seem like a decent guy to them so they latch onto you like a facehugger from alien so that you will wife them up.

At that stage in their life their biological clock ticking and know they're not in their prime. With their looks are quickly deteriorating they need to find a decent guy ASAP before they get too bad.

AKA "hitting the wall"

I avoid women 28+ like the plague for this reason.

^ A shit test from 23 yo is completely different than one from a 33yo (intuitively feels like they shouldn't even be called the by the same term).

A 23 yo is "testing" to see if youre cool/strong/masculine/popular/fun/ etc or otherwise "worthy" enough to sleep with

A 33 yo is "testing" to see if you'll stick around. She's got no time to waste, is already convinced you wont, and a hair triggered confirmation bias to that fact.

Vaun not remembering where they went on their first date in her mind was "this guys just playing me and fucking a bunch of other bitches" at 0-60 mph in 1.9 seconds type speed

[Hazaer]

I recently tried dealing with a shit test situation but might have gone overboard so some advice from you folks would be much appreciated.

There is this girl from uni who I run into regularly on campus. She always hangs out with this guy who lives next door to her. She does give IOIs but but I don't know if its really IOIs or attention whoring, I stick to pleasantries but was waiting for a good opportunity to escalate. So one day, i met her when she was by herself. We got talking about the upcoming holidays and random stuff. Then she mentioned that all her neighbors at her residence have left and she is the only one in her corridor. She also said that this guy has also left and its good that now he won't be following her around everywhere. Knowing this guy myself, I thought that this comment was a shit test and so I said that the guy was cool. And then added 'His laughter is cute too.' Now, that I think about it, could the second comment have been an overkill, making it seem homo? She replied to that saying that the guy does seem to spread good vibes. Also, I don't know if her comment about the guy was a shit test or was it to dispel my suspicions that they were a couple.

She bailed shortly and its not a good sign. I am not really interested in her but just curious to know if that comment could have made her gone cold or is it the fact that she was just attention whoring?
How would you recommend that I proceed in my interactions with her from now on?

Thanks for your opinions guys.

[PapayaTapper]

(03-29-2018 08:41 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I recently tried dealing with a shit test situation but might have gone overboard so some advice from you folks would be much appreciated.

There is this girl from uni who I run into regularly on campus. She always hangs out with this guy who lives next door to her. She does give IOIs but but I don't know if its really IOIs or attention whoring, I stick to pleasantries but was waiting for a good opportunity to escalate. So one day, i met her when she was by herself. We got talking about the upcoming holidays and random stuff. Then she mentioned that all her neighbors at her residence have left and she is the only one in her corridor. She also said that this guy has also left and its good that now he won't be following her around everywhere. Knowing this guy myself, I thought that this comment was a shit test and so I said that the guy was cool. And then added 'His laughter is cute too.' Now, that I think about it, could the second comment have been an overkill, making it seem homo? She replied to that saying that the guy does seem to spread good vibes. Also, I don't know if her comment about the guy was a shit test or was it to dispel my suspicions that they were a couple.

She bailed shortly and its not a good sign. I am not really interested in her but just curious to know if that comment could have made her gone cold or is it the fact that she was just attention whoring?
How would you recommend that I proceed in my interactions with her from now on?

Thanks for your opinions guys.

This was a shit test and unfortunately you failed to see it. But thats ok

Here's my take based on the info you provided:

She didn't care what you thought about her orbiter. She cared about what you thought about her. Because its always about her when it comes to a woman (until she has a child).

Why would a girl tell you she's vulnerable (no one else around)?

This chick opened the door for you by letting you know that choade thats been cock blocking her a) isn't around and b) not her boyfriend. (You undoubtedly aren't the only guy her orbiter (who she's clearly friend-zoned hard) has scared off. That doesn't mean she was DTF then and there (although she may have been).

Stop waiting for super obvious IOI's. Youre missing a LOT of opportunities when you do that. Guys seem to forget that girls are afraid of rejection too. Even more so than men (although from a different "fear center"). You (and guys in general) not be afraid to take an opening and see if there is any interest. Ask for her number, ask if she wants to go smoke a spliff at your place, or go for coffee.

Always at least give her the opportunity to say "yes" before you assume its a no. The same goes for life in general

File it away and play on.

Edit: If you still want to bang her you have one more shot. Next time you see her make a direct move (number, coffee, Netflix...whatever). She needs to know that youre thinking of her as a sexual target (discreetly of course) in order for her attraction wiring to kick in.

[dknightbro]

Shit tests are opportunities.

Rather, shortcuts if you pass them.

If you're after faster escalation nothing is faster than getting a stream of shit tests.

This is why NG is fast as girls are in a sexual mood already and will shit test you in a storm. Which is OK and expected.

Do not be afraid of shit tests. Embrace them.

I do that and flip it right back on them. My greatest lines and comebacks have been through shit tests.

Watch them melt into your frame like pudding once you slap it right back at them.

[robreke]

(03-29-2018 08:41 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I recently tried dealing with a shit test situation but might have gone overboard so some advice from you folks would be much appreciated.

There is this girl from uni who I run into regularly on campus. She always hangs out with this guy who lives next door to her. She does give IOIs but but I don't know if its really IOIs or attention whoring, I stick to pleasantries but was waiting for a good opportunity to escalate. So one day, i met her when she was by herself. We got talking about the upcoming holidays and random stuff. Then she mentioned that all her neighbors at her residence have left and she is the only one in her corridor. She also said that this guy has also left and its good that now he won't be following her around everywhere. Knowing this guy myself, I thought that this comment was a shit test and so I said that the guy was cool. And then added 'His laughter is cute too.' Now, that I think about it, could the second comment have been an overkill, making it seem homo? She replied to that saying that the guy does seem to spread good vibes. Also, I don't know if her comment about the guy was a shit test or was it to dispel my suspicions that they were a couple.

She bailed shortly and its not a good sign. I am not really interested in her but just curious to know if that comment could have made her gone cold or is it the fact that she was just attention whoring?
How would you recommend that I proceed in my interactions with her from now on?

Thanks for your opinions guys.

She opened the door and you did not walk through it. In fact, you closed it.

That was a pretty gay response about his laugh being cute but hey, we've all fucked up from time to time so don't beat yourself up.

You could have taken that in a few directions like : yeah nobody likes a stalker, I've had some myself...then re-direct to chatting about her favorite hobbies or something to get her talking about herself more. then start light kino, bounce a few times, suggest going by your place for a tea or something, etc ( basic game stuff)

Like PT says, you maybe able you can salvage it.

[arafat scarf]

Vaun Wrote:  

...

Im more interested in really hooking a girl. You do that by holding back. Not "being the sexual instigator". You have to make her think she wants it more than you do. This is game. Everyone dating wants quick sex, men and women. I want to hook a highly attractive good woman, preferably for life. Every guy will try for quick sex, thats not game, those are tactics for sexless guys. Guys that don't jump at attractive girls, set themselves apart.

...

Late response here, and slightly off-topic but I've also been finding this to be effective for hooking a girl. I consider it a sort of 'slow burn' type of seduction, and I've come to prefer it if I find the girl endearing.

You can look at her, touch her, and talk to her in a certain way that shows desire and reserve at the same time.

I've even brought girls back to my place after the first or second date. l'll put on some music, turn on the soft lighting, and pour us a drink. They'll sit with me on my sofa and I'll leave about a foot of distance between us with my body angled toward them. I'll continue our conversation, flirt with them, look into their eyes, touch them firmly on their legs, shoulders and arms, and allow for lingering pauses in conversation.

Then after about 40 minutes, I'll tell them it's time to get going, call their Uber, and escort them out.

They'll usually have some mixture of disappointment, confusion, and frustration as they gather their things on the way out, but that's okay because I'm doing things the way that I want. If I want her around for awhile, it won't be the first time she'll be upset with my behavior.

While waiting for the Uber to arrive outside, sometimes I'll pull them in and kiss them. Other times I'll just grab their hips then lightly squeeze their hands for a second, look at them, and say 'see you soon' and then walk back inside.

If we're able to see each other again, the clothes come off on the next date and the sex for me is almost always better than when things happen sooner.

[Mufasa]

Prehaps this is been covered: Its constantly preached in game to have the frame of her trying to prove herself to you so a main stay in my game is shit testing her in a jokingly harsh way.

Are you an axe murderer?

Why aren't you wearing heels? Are you afraid to be tall? (Im tall & this is spoken to a tall girl)

*When she asks whats in my drink, in the drink I got her, if she offers her drink, or buys you a drink*
me: *something about date rape drugs in the drink long other PED's and hormones*

She says something that out of context is rapey, sexual assault like, etc
--Call her out on it

Accuse her of trying to be your girlfriend for tonite

If she tries to hug you or use some form of kino act like she's made of kryptonite--exaggerate your reaction with body language and facial expressions

Tell her you hate her

@Hazaer heres my breakdown:

(03-29-2018 08:41 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

She does give IOIs but but I don't know if its really IOIs or attention whoring, I stick to pleasantries but was waiting for a good opportunity to escalate.

Doesnt matter. A man takes what he wants. If they seem like IOIs they probably are. As a man that knows game you should realize that if they are not interested they will make sure you don't have any shot. If she's pleasant around you then you are at the very least "in play". When you make a move she will either reciprocate or not then you will know for sure if its game on.

Quote:

So one day, i met her when she was by herself. We got talking about the upcoming holidays and random stuff. Then she mentioned that all her neighbors at her residence have left and she is the only one in her corridor. She also said that this guy has also left and its good that now he won't be following her around everywhere.

All you needed to hear man lol. Thats a goddamn green light if I ever saw one, prolly could have asked her to drinks or hang out right then and there.

Quote:

Knowing this guy myself, I thought that this comment was a shit test and so I said that the guy was cool. And then added 'His laughter is cute too.' Now, that I think about it, could the second comment have been an overkill, making it seem homo?

Definitely a shit test and for me this is where I would use some of the shit I was talking about above. Flip it to her stalking him or better yet her stalking you and that you're probably in danger without a witness (the dude).

Quote:

She replied to that saying that the guy does seem to spread good vibes. Also, I don't know if her comment about the guy was a shit test or was it to dispel my suspicions that they were a couple.

You eliminated yourself and even put this guy on the board to play. not a good look. Never give a complement to the competition unless you really don't care. If anything you need to get her to disqualify him...which she did..

When Im hitting on a women I'm not really interpreting what they are saying. Im more so scanning their conversation for something that I can use on them to tease them, make the conversation about me (be narcissistic), or make them seem "creepy".

Doing so makes her into the chasee--which shifts the frame into your dmv being higher than hers, makes her qualify herself ("I am not a stalker!!"), makes her disqualify him ("psh I would never stalk him!"), makes her laugh, and opens the conversation up to sexual escalation.

--Trying to follow me home...creepy
--Trying to chloroform me...good thing i brought my taser
--trying to be my secret admirer
--waited till he wasn't her to hit on me

For me I try and turn the frame to where I am the hot chick calling him (her) out on trying to be slick in flirting with me and of course it's all said with a joking tone.

her: yea everyone has left for the break and that one guy won't be following me around anymore haha
me: HA! yea right you were definitely stalking him, and now you're stalking me! Shit I'm probably in danger now since he won't be here to see you try to chloroform me...
her: haha no I promise its not like that! (sometimes they will banter back confirming they are lol. don't stumble, call them kinky of something)
me: ha sureeeeeee I bet you're into that kinky shit!
her: no no! I'm not haha
me: ok I'm going to trust you then, I don't date axe murderers. What are you up to today?

All in all its fun, its sexual, and its her trying to prove that she is datable. At the end I take over the direction of the conversation and get the information I want to progress towards a date and eventually sex.

[PapayaTapper]

(03-29-2018 01:29 PM)arafat scarf Wrote:  

Vaun Wrote:  

...

Im more interested in really hooking a girl. You do that by holding back. Not "being the sexual instigator". You have to make her think she wants it more than you do. This is game. Everyone dating wants quick sex, men and women. I want to hook a highly attractive good woman, preferably for life. Every guy will try for quick sex, thats not game, those are tactics for sexless guys. Guys that don't jump at attractive girls, set themselves apart.

...

Late response here, and slightly off-topic but I've also been finding this to be effective for hooking a girl. I consider it a sort of 'slow burn' type of seduction, and I've come to prefer it if I find the girl endearing.

You can look at her, touch her, and talk to her in a certain way that shows desire and reserve at the same time.

I've even brought girls back to my place after the first or second date. l'll put on some music, turn on the soft lighting, and pour us a drink. They'll sit with me on my sofa and I'll leave about a foot of distance between us with my body angled toward them. I'll continue our conversation, flirt with them, look into their eyes, touch them firmly on their legs, shoulders and arms, and allow for lingering pauses in conversation.

Then after about 40 minutes, I'll tell them it's time to get going, call their Uber, and escort them out.

They'll usually have some mixture of disappointment, confusion, and frustration as they gather their things on the way out, but that's okay because I'm doing things the way that I want. If I want her around for awhile, it won't be the first time she'll be upset with my behavior.

While waiting for the Uber to arrive outside, sometimes I'll pull them in and kiss them. Other times I'll just grab their hips then lightly squeeze their hands for a second, look at them, and say 'see you soon' and then walk back inside.

If we're able to see each other again, the clothes come off on the next date and the sex for me is almost always better than when things happen sooner.

Where are you (generally)? You must be somewhere very traditional. In the US the above is the exact formula I'd give for how NOT to get a second date. The "slow burn" is the backup plan not the primary. If you dont escalate hard youre more likely to be deemed a fag or inept if not forgotten altogether

Im not doubting you...Im just saying the play book varies from location to location, depending on social mores

[Mufasa]

(03-29-2018 03:34 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 01:29 PM)arafat scarf Wrote:  

Vaun Wrote:  

...

Im more interested in really hooking a girl. You do that by holding back. Not "being the sexual instigator". You have to make her think she wants it more than you do. This is game. Everyone dating wants quick sex, men and women. I want to hook a highly attractive good woman, preferably for life. Every guy will try for quick sex, thats not game, those are tactics for sexless guys. Guys that don't jump at attractive girls, set themselves apart.

...

Late response here, and slightly off-topic but I've also been finding this to be effective for hooking a girl. I consider it a sort of 'slow burn' type of seduction, and I've come to prefer it if I find the girl endearing.

You can look at her, touch her, and talk to her in a certain way that shows desire and reserve at the same time.

I've even brought girls back to my place after the first or second date. l'll put on some music, turn on the soft lighting, and pour us a drink. They'll sit with me on my sofa and I'll leave about a foot of distance between us with my body angled toward them. I'll continue our conversation, flirt with them, look into their eyes, touch them firmly on their legs, shoulders and arms, and allow for lingering pauses in conversation.

Then after about 40 minutes, I'll tell them it's time to get going, call their Uber, and escort them out.

They'll usually have some mixture of disappointment, confusion, and frustration as they gather their things on the way out, but that's okay because I'm doing things the way that I want. If I want her around for awhile, it won't be the first time she'll be upset with my behavior.

While waiting for the Uber to arrive outside, sometimes I'll pull them in and kiss them. Other times I'll just grab their hips then lightly squeeze their hands for a second, look at them, and say 'see you soon' and then walk back inside.

If we're able to see each other again, the clothes come off on the next date and the sex for me is almost always better than when things happen sooner.

Where are you (generally)? You must be somewhere very traditional. In the US the above is the exact formula I'd give for how NOT to get a second date. The "slow burn" is the backup plan not the primary. If you dont escalate hard youre more likely to be deemed a fag or inept if not forgotten altogether

Im not doubting you...Im just saying the play book varies from location to location, depending on social mores

I second this. Experience says that if she comes back to my place and lets me put my hands on her in a sexual way she wants me to be a man and "take her". Not doing causes her to interpret that I don't have the balls to pull the trigger.

Additionally every guy tries for quick sex not every guy can get it. The best way to hook a girl is to show her a great time, show that you are well liked and have high value, have amazing sexual eye contact and body language, not be afraid to call her out on her bull shit, and fuck her to orgasm.

Quote:

Guys that don't jump at attractive girls, set themselves apart.

The thing that sets a guy apart in a good way is having high SMV and being unapologetically a man about your intentions and desires and having good dick game. If you're a billionaire that tells a girl to get in your Ferrari to go on a date and then afterwards make her cum 3 times she's not going to be hooked?

Do you have to be these things 100% of course not, but you can do things to stimulate those psychological responses.

[Hazaer]

(03-29-2018 11:33 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 08:41 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I recently tried dealing with a shit test situation but might have gone overboard so some advice from you folks would be much appreciated.

There is this girl from uni who I run into regularly on campus. She always hangs out with this guy who lives next door to her. She does give IOIs but but I don't know if its really IOIs or attention whoring, I stick to pleasantries but was waiting for a good opportunity to escalate. So one day, i met her when she was by herself. We got talking about the upcoming holidays and random stuff. Then she mentioned that all her neighbors at her residence have left and she is the only one in her corridor. She also said that this guy has also left and its good that now he won't be following her around everywhere. Knowing this guy myself, I thought that this comment was a shit test and so I said that the guy was cool. And then added 'His laughter is cute too.' Now, that I think about it, could the second comment have been an overkill, making it seem homo? She replied to that saying that the guy does seem to spread good vibes. Also, I don't know if her comment about the guy was a shit test or was it to dispel my suspicions that they were a couple.

She bailed shortly and its not a good sign. I am not really interested in her but just curious to know if that comment could have made her gone cold or is it the fact that she was just attention whoring?
How would you recommend that I proceed in my interactions with her from now on?

Thanks for your opinions guys.

This was a shit test and unfortunately you failed to see it. But thats ok

Here's my take based on the info you provided:

She didn't care what you thought about her orbiter. She cared about what you thought about her. Because its always about her when it comes to a woman (until she has a child).

Why would a girl tell you she's vulnerable (no one else around)?

This chick opened the door for you by letting you know that choade thats been cock blocking her a) isn't around and b) not her boyfriend. (You undoubtedly aren't the only guy her orbiter (who she's clearly friend-zoned hard) has scared off. That doesn't mean she was DTF then and there (although she may have been).

Stop waiting for super obvious IOI's. Youre missing a LOT of opportunities when you do that. Guys seem to forget that girls are afraid of rejection too. Even more so than men (although from a different "fear center"). You (and guys in general) not be afraid to take an opening and see if there is any interest. Ask for her number, ask if she wants to go smoke a spliff at your place, or go for coffee.

Always at least give her the opportunity to say "yes" before you assume its a no. The same goes for life in general

File it away and play on.

Edit: If you still want to bang her you have one more shot. Next time you see her make a direct move (number, coffee, Netflix...whatever). She needs to know that youre thinking of her as a sexual target (discreetly of course) in order for her attraction wiring to kick in.

(03-29-2018 11:56 AM)robreke Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 08:41 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I recently tried dealing with a shit test situation but might have gone overboard so some advice from you folks would be much appreciated.

There is this girl from uni who I run into regularly on campus. She always hangs out with this guy who lives next door to her. She does give IOIs but but I don't know if its really IOIs or attention whoring, I stick to pleasantries but was waiting for a good opportunity to escalate. So one day, i met her when she was by herself. We got talking about the upcoming holidays and random stuff. Then she mentioned that all her neighbors at her residence have left and she is the only one in her corridor. She also said that this guy has also left and its good that now he won't be following her around everywhere. Knowing this guy myself, I thought that this comment was a shit test and so I said that the guy was cool. And then added 'His laughter is cute too.' Now, that I think about it, could the second comment have been an overkill, making it seem homo? She replied to that saying that the guy does seem to spread good vibes. Also, I don't know if her comment about the guy was a shit test or was it to dispel my suspicions that they were a couple.

She bailed shortly and its not a good sign. I am not really interested in her but just curious to know if that comment could have made her gone cold or is it the fact that she was just attention whoring?
How would you recommend that I proceed in my interactions with her from now on?

Thanks for your opinions guys.

She opened the door and you did not walk through it. In fact, you closed it.

That was a pretty gay response about his laugh being cute but hey, we've all fucked up from time to time so don't beat yourself up.

You could have taken that in a few directions like : yeah nobody likes a stalker, I've had some myself...then re-direct to chatting about her favorite hobbies or something to get her talking about herself more. then start light kino, bounce a few times, suggest going by your place for a tea or something, etc ( basic game stuff)

Like PT says, you maybe able you can salvage it.

From what you guys say, it looks like I messed it up big time. I thought the comment was the problem, which it was to some extent but my lack of initiative seems to have cost me more. Also, it was true that I was looking for more excitement and enthusiasm during our convo given her apparent interest so that was a bummer early on.

It just hit me that I gave the completely wrong response to her shit test. I believe the theory here goes like, if she talks good about some other guy in my presence, I got to amplify/agree with her and ask her to hang out with him in a teasing manner. But I used that when she was talking negatively about this guy in this instance which I should have agreed with. One more lesson learnt the hard way.

Damn..It was indeed a perfect opportunity, I actually wanted to invite her for some wine tasting if I ever caught up with her alone but when I was talking to her, she mentioned about going to see some vegetable garden being planted by some other guys. But she said that after that, she was going to come back, have dinner and watch a movie. So, that kind of threw me off because she seemed to have a schedule in her mind leading to a very weak conversation/indecisiveness from my part culminating in failing that shit test eventually.

She was kind of cold/hesitant to me later on, because of the major mess up so I was thinking that I should stay aloof to get back the frame but from what you guys say, maybe I will give it another shot. Just straight up ask her if she wants to hang out with minimal small talk this time. Not sure if it will work because I kind of missed quite a few opportunities with her.

[RedPillUK]

(03-29-2018 08:17 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

It just hit me that I gave the completely wrong response to her shit test. I believe the theory here goes like, if she talks good about some other guy in my presence, I got to amplify/agree with her and ask her to hang out with him in a teasing manner. But I used that when she was talking negatively about this guy in this instance which I should have agreed with. One more lesson learnt the hard way.

The correct response in that situation was to laugh and move the conversation towards hanging out. You talk too much. She was giving you clear signals that she wants to be fucked like an animal and you're trying to figure out the best thing to say, while chatting away like a girl about some guy's cute laugh.

Fuck that. Instead of thinking about posts of game theory about whether to agree or disagree with her opinion of her stalker, you should be thinking about the bigger picture, where is the best place to go where sex is most likely to happen, and is it too early to drink yet.

If you see her again and get another chance just tease her a little bit about her time alone, pretend all this bullshit never happened. She might give you another opening although probably less enthusiastically this time, but you can still take it if you're just more cool about it next time.

[Hazaer]

(03-30-2018 09:05 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 08:17 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

It just hit me that I gave the completely wrong response to her shit test. I believe the theory here goes like, if she talks good about some other guy in my presence, I got to amplify/agree with her and ask her to hang out with him in a teasing manner. But I used that when she was talking negatively about this guy in this instance which I should have agreed with. One more lesson learnt the hard way.

The correct response in that situation was to laugh and move the conversation towards hanging out. You talk too much. She was giving you clear signals that she wants to be fucked like an animal and you're trying to figure out the best thing to say, while chatting away like a girl about some guy's cute laugh.

Fuck that. Instead of thinking about posts of game theory about whether to agree or disagree with her opinion of her stalker, you should be thinking about the bigger picture, where is the best place to go where sex is most likely to happen, and is it too early to drink yet.

If you see her again and get another chance just tease her a little bit about her time alone, pretend all this bullshit never happened. She might give you another opening although probably less enthusiastically this time, but you can still take it if you're just more cool about it next time.

Yeah, the convo like I said was too weak from my part and too much talking when I should have set up a date and ejected for the meetup later. And it is rare to catch her alone to set up dates so it was a massive opportunity lost. I was thinking of texting her to meet up to watch a movie at her/my place etc. rather than waiting to meet face to face where there might be other guys.

[PapayaTapper]

(03-30-2018 08:29 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(03-30-2018 09:05 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 08:17 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

It just hit me that I gave the completely wrong response to her shit test. I believe the theory here goes like, if she talks good about some other guy in my presence, I got to amplify/agree with her and ask her to hang out with him in a teasing manner. But I used that when she was talking negatively about this guy in this instance which I should have agreed with. One more lesson learnt the hard way.

The correct response in that situation was to laugh and move the conversation towards hanging out. You talk too much. She was giving you clear signals that she wants to be fucked like an animal and you're trying to figure out the best thing to say, while chatting away like a girl about some guy's cute laugh.

Fuck that. Instead of thinking about posts of game theory about whether to agree or disagree with her opinion of her stalker, you should be thinking about the bigger picture, where is the best place to go where sex is most likely to happen, and is it too early to drink yet.

If you see her again and get another chance just tease her a little bit about her time alone, pretend all this bullshit never happened. She might give you another opening although probably less enthusiastically this time, but you can still take it if you're just more cool about it next time.

Yeah, the convo like I said was too weak from my part and too much talking when I should have set up a date and ejected for the meetup later. And it is rare to catch her alone to set up dates so it was a massive opportunity lost. I was thinking of texting her to meet up to watch a movie at her/my place etc. rather than waiting to meet face to face where there might be other guys.

Hazaer

Youre waaayyy over thinking. That's the only problem I see. Youre approaching this like an engineer (are you?) and deconstructing the play by play looking for the right "formula".

But the right formula isn't some exact combination of "what I say + when I say it + how I say it x how many times - her responses = she gives up the pussy"

_______________________________________

Consider this as it is absolutely immutable:

What you say is irrelevant when you are gaming a woman*. Conversely the only thing that matters is what she feels in response to what you say.

Do you see the difference?

So the question isn't "what do I say?"

The question youre looking for is "What do I want her to feel?"

Now that we know the goal...working backwards from point B to point A is much much easier.




*This universally true when it comes to all social interactions.

Think about someone you like (then do the same with someone you don't). What did they say specifically that made you like them? Can you recall every conversation you had with them? Of course not. But when you think of anyone you know how you feel about them...right?

[Hazaer]

You are right man. I tend to over think when I talk to them. But sometimes I think I got to check myself or I say some comment that ruins the convo like the example above.

For the situation above, just sent her a text asking how are you for a follow up to catch up if she responds. She did look my way yesterday where she was in her social group, when I was passing her but I didnt engage. Thought I should withold some attention after her coldness following that convo before. Looks like now she won't respond to my text. So if I see her again how should I play it? Or is it a lost cause by now?

[Hazaer]

(03-31-2018 02:04 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

You are right man. I tend to over think when I talk to them. But sometimes I think I got to check myself or I say some comment that ruins the convo like the example above.

For the situation above, just sent her a text asking how are you for a follow up to catch up if she responds. She did look my way yesterday where she was in her social group, when I was passing her but I didnt engage. Thought I should withold some attention after her coldness following that convo before. Looks like now she won't respond to my text. So if I see her again how should I play it? Or is it a lost cause by now?

Update: She replied with 'hey man how is it going?' Something was off about the message but I replied saying I got some wine I wanted to try with her and if she was up for wine tasting. She replies 'sorry but i am busy...'

Dont know if that convo was the reason. Or maybe it was some advanced form of attention seeking behavior I dont know about that 1st years engage in. Wasnt really attracted to her so well, its her loss I guess.

[RedPillUK]

"Hey man how is it going" = You have been friendzoned.

No more Mr. Nice Guy from now on.

I still think it's possible to turn this around, just be more of a dick and don't take her seriously at all. Definitely do not be her friend.

[PapayaTapper]

(03-31-2018 05:36 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(03-31-2018 02:04 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

You are right man. I tend to over think when I talk to them. But sometimes I think I got to check myself or I say some comment that ruins the convo like the example above.

For the situation above, just sent her a text asking how are you for a follow up to catch up if she responds. She did look my way yesterday where she was in her social group, when I was passing her but I didnt engage. Thought I should withold some attention after her coldness following that convo before. Looks like now she won't respond to my text. So if I see her again how should I play it? Or is it a lost cause by now?

Update: She replied with 'hey man how is it going?' Something was off about the message but I replied saying I got some wine I wanted to try with her and if she was up for wine tasting. She replies 'sorry but i am busy...'

Dont know if that convo was the reason. Or maybe it was some advanced form of attention seeking behavior I dont know about that 1st years engage in. Wasnt really attracted to her so well, its her loss I guess.

If you cant "initiate" the attraction sequence in person what makes you think that you could via text?

(03-29-2018 11:33 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Edit: If you still want to bang her you have one more shot. Next time you see her make a direct move (number, coffee, Netflix...whatever). She needs to know that youre thinking of her as a sexual target (discreetly of course) in order for her attraction wiring to kick in.

You either

- Got impatient,

or

-You care more (not the girl as much as about this opportunity) than you let on and therefore were afraid to wait try in person

or

- You are missing some some fundamental understanding of attraction principles.

Im not trying to rag on you. Im just trying to figure out where you may be going wrong.

[Hazaer]

(03-31-2018 05:04 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(03-31-2018 05:36 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(03-31-2018 02:04 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

You are right man. I tend to over think when I talk to them. But sometimes I think I got to check myself or I say some comment that ruins the convo like the example above.

For the situation above, just sent her a text asking how are you for a follow up to catch up if she responds. She did look my way yesterday where she was in her social group, when I was passing her but I didnt engage. Thought I should withold some attention after her coldness following that convo before. Looks like now she won't respond to my text. So if I see her again how should I play it? Or is it a lost cause by now?

Update: She replied with 'hey man how is it going?' Something was off about the message but I replied saying I got some wine I wanted to try with her and if she was up for wine tasting. She replies 'sorry but i am busy...'

Dont know if that convo was the reason. Or maybe it was some advanced form of attention seeking behavior I dont know about that 1st years engage in. Wasnt really attracted to her so well, its her loss I guess.

If you cant "initiate" the attraction sequence in person what makes you think that you could via text?

(03-29-2018 11:33 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Edit: If you still want to bang her you have one more shot. Next time you see her make a direct move (number, coffee, Netflix...whatever). She needs to know that youre thinking of her as a sexual target (discreetly of course) in order for her attraction wiring to kick in.

You either

- Got impatient,

or

-You care more (not the girl as much as about this opportunity) than you let on and therefore were afraid to wait try in person

or

- You are missing some some fundamental understanding of attraction principles.

Im not trying to rag on you. Im just trying to figure out where you may be going wrong.

Yeah, I thought I had to make a move before the long weekend is over and her friends and dorm mates are back. Also, she is working so it is hard to catch up with her in person during normal hours.

I am curious to know the attraction principles you mention. Clearly, I have been lacking in creating attraction in this recent interaction. I have used some teasing in my previous interactions with her but never had a sustained convo before the one I mentioned. But the bad effects of the most recent interactions probably put me in the friendzone like the previous poster said.

[Hazaer]

(03-31-2018 10:34 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

"Hey man how is it going" = You have been friendzoned.

No more Mr. Nice Guy from now on.

I still think it's possible to turn this around, just be more of a dick and don't take her seriously at all. Definitely do not be her friend.

Do you mean acting aloof and disinterested? She doesn't usually talk to me when her friends are around except for 'Hi'. And there are tons of orbiters around her. For some reason, she also prefers hanging out with guys than girls. Also, would you try again if the girl rejected you once? I don't know if its worth it for most girls to be honest although I agree I got to rebuild the frame with her after what happened.

Yeah, i kind of thought that her reply was not good but I carried on with the wine idea to get away from the friendzone and also express the intent even though I knew there was a big chance of rejection. Hopefully, she is at least confused by the mixed message haha

[Dulceácido]

Prefers hanging out with guys rather than girls. Huge red flag.

[arafat scarf]

Quote:

Where are you (generally)? You must be somewhere very traditional. In the US the above is the exact formula I'd give for how NOT to get a second date. The "slow burn" is the backup plan not the primary. If you dont escalate hard youre more likely to be deemed a fag or inept if not forgotten altogether

Im not doubting you...Im just saying the play book varies from location to location, depending on social mores

You're right, that's worth mentioning.

I'm in Mexico City, so this way of doing things may not have a negative impact here when the girl is more subtle and more relationship oriented. As you mention, it may cause me to lose out on your standard-issue crass American girl who's built for speed.

That said, it has worked fine on American girls that are slightly timid or introverted.