[EpicBeta]

Another text just saying my name - JOHNNNNNN

(not my real name btw)

Ugh... Turning my phone back off.

Edit: oh my god just noticed there were two other texts before that:

ARE U ALIVE?????:/:/ Dont pull a (name of friend who use to disappear) and make me call your parents...

[samsamsam]

(04-29-2014 03:19 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Hey Samsamsam, going back to what you said about remembering what ppl did for you, and being there for them in a pinch; how would you feel about communicating that - like "you can call me in a life/death emergency, but other than that I'd rather not hear from you anymore." or something brief/simple to that effect? Or would you say just keep ignoring and be help if that situation ever comes up and get's back to me?

If you have mutual friends and you have seen some recently, then she probably asked about you and knows your alive. I think she just wants attention. Only way I would give in is if she showed up naked and wanted to fuck. Then you got what you wanted. Other than that, just keep ignoring.

I wouldn't tell her that you would help in a pinch. It will be 1) more powerful when you show up out of nowhere to save her ass - making her regret her choices but 2) MOST IMPORTANTLY, if she knew you would help her in a pinch, she might create shit to test you.

So to be clear, ignore her. Have her call your parents - don't give a fuck. Notice how she is threatening to do something drastic to get a response? Stay true to the plan. Go get other pussy, don't interact with her and don't mention you will help her. She doesn't need to know that you will help her, only you have to know that and that is because you have integrity/loyalty/honor.

You can also block text messages I believe. Maybe you wanna look into that. This way you don't have to even know she is trying to reach you.

Think about it, if she really cared that much she would drive over to your place and pound on your door to make sure you are ok. She just wants attention.

Don't communicate with her.

Edit: EB, something to think about. Pretty much all the feedback is consistent-ignore her. And I say this from a caring place since you seem sincere. But I just sense you are still on the fence about this - meaning you want someone to convince you to communicate with her probably because in some ways you miss her. I totally understand. But hang tough - you will get through it. We have all been there. Just find some other distractions. Better yet another chick. Stay committed to your mental health.

[Onto]

(04-29-2014 05:37 AM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

She set me up and gave me a place to live for well over a year when I was struggling to get on my feet, among other things. That doesn't excuse all the shit she put me through,

Sounds like you put yourself through the shit, and are still doing it. You need to either:

1) Get a grip and walk away forever.

2) Grab her by the back of the neck and caveman her

3). Get down on one knee with chocolates and roses and profess your undying love for her. Then your journey toward the Beta side will be Complete!

[EpicBeta]

(04-29-2014 05:37 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 03:19 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Hey Samsamsam, going back to what you said about remembering what ppl did for you, and being there for them in a pinch; how would you feel about communicating that - like "you can call me in a life/death emergency, but other than that I'd rather not hear from you anymore." or something brief/simple to that effect? Or would you say just keep ignoring and be help if that situation ever comes up and get's back to me?

If you have mutual friends and you have seen some recently, then she probably asked about you and knows your alive. I think she just wants attention. Only way I would give in is if she showed up naked and wanted to fuck. Then you got what you wanted. Other than that, just keep ignoring.

I wouldn't tell her that you would help in a pinch. It will be 1) more powerful when you show up out of nowhere to save her ass - making her regret her choices but 2) MOST IMPORTANTLY, if she knew you would help her in a pinch, she might create shit to test you.

So to be clear, ignore her. Have her call your parents - don't give a fuck. Notice how she is threatening to do something drastic to get a response? Stay true to the plan. Go get other pussy, don't interact with her and don't mention you will help her. She doesn't need to know that you will help her, only you have to know that and that is because you have integrity/loyalty/honor.

You can also block text messages I believe. Maybe you wanna look into that. This way you don't have to even know she is trying to reach you.

Think about it, if she really cared that much she would drive over to your place and pound on your door to make sure you are ok. She just wants attention.

Don't communicate with her.

Edit: EB, something to think about. Pretty much all the feedback is consistent-ignore her. And I say this from a caring place since you seem sincere. But I just sense you are still on the fence about this - meaning you want someone to convince you to communicate with her probably because in some ways you miss her. I totally understand. But hang tough - you will get through it. We have all been there. Just find some other distractions. Better yet another chick. Stay committed to your mental health.

Won't lie; I do miss her. Some days are worse than others, but I'm extremely busy so that helps a lot.

The main reason I'm on the fence about contacting her at this point, is that I feel like I'm fucking with her, which seems kind of like giving her attention she doesn't deserve.

I haven't seen any of our mutual friends since before her first email and I don't have very frequent contact with them (L.A. keeps people isolated pretty well). I could imagine her getting to the point of driving over here, but that's 25-40mn drive depending on traffic.

Rather she didn't call my parents… (not the end of the world if she does though). I agree she wants attention more than anything, but she's probably there's also probably some genuine concern knowing her.

I feel like responding to her email late tonight with a simple "received" and then ignoring everything that follows is away of acknowledging without actually engaging. It's almost like saying "shut up, I'm done with you." I think that would say it all in a sense.

That's about the most I want to communicate with her at this point, because I'm programmed to diffuse all drama in my life.

I still think you're right though, and I'll probably be happier with the results if I use your method. I'll do my best to stick with this plan and let you know how it turns out. I really appreciate your straight forward advice about this, along with everyone else's.

[Beyond Borders]

A little tough love in this post so brace yourself.

I'm extremely hesitant to give you even more reason to keep coming back and forth on your game plan here, but I wrote this earlier and I still honestly think it's the best approach

(04-22-2014 10:54 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

you have known each other for a long time. I think you can cut this woman out of your life without making it an act of nuclear war.

In other words, make it temporary. Resist the urge to tell her off. Be civil and recognize that you're just as much at fault for this as she is.

Maybe even send her a brief message about how you just need to be away from her for a while and get "this thing" out of your system - just so she doesn't riddle you with messages "wondering" what's going on and tempting you to reopen the conversation.

Then proceed with your game, fucking other women, getting in shape, etc. Focusing on yourself.

When the feelings pass (and they will), you're back in control of your own emotions and thought processes, and you're getting laid on the regular or in a relationship with someone else, then maybe you can be actual friends and not just having a pretend friendship with someone you're in love with. Might be a few months, might be a year - whatever - but I don't think you have to completely napalm your friend out of your life just because she wasn't into you.

You decided to take another approach, so I didn't mention it again, but honestly man, this mental back and forth you keep verbalizing is fucking painful. And the messages you mention wanting to send her are sheer cringeworthy. You are WAY in over your head with this girl and I don't think you have the witheral to coldly cut her out of your life the way guys are telling you too.

All I can say is it is blaringly obvious why you failed with this woman and why she treats you the way you do. We can demonize her all day, but you did this to yourself.

I can't say I haven't acted stupid over women myself, but there it is.

You can keep ignoring her completely if you want. I personally think it's just going to cause more drama than it's worth, and it's blowing her up even more in your mind, but you could just block her number and ride it out. She'll eventually go away (hopefully won't really call your parents).

Or you can do what I suggested, admit to her in a brief message that the friendship is just not healthy for you right now, and tell her you're going your own way and that maybe someday in the distant future you can be friends. And ask her to please stop contacting you.

Make it clear your decision has been made and that it's not up for discussion.

Does it show vulnerability and reinforce how much you like her? Sure. But who fucking cares. You are done with this girl, so why dwell on power plays? The important thing is separating yourself from this toxic relationship in the most effective, clean, drama-free way possible so you can do your thing.

You're not gaming her here - you're breaking away.

And then don't let her catch you up in a back and forth on it - you've said your piece and you are done, so you can go on ignoring her messages then if she refuses to honor your request. At that point, it's on her.

Here's the thing though. Pick a route - the one you're on or what I suggested - and stick with it. Stop with this back and forth and "should I send this lame, needy disguised as being tough" message shit or this one.

What you're doing here is training yourself to be weak-willed with women. You're also training yourself not to stick with your decisions. I repeat that it's no big surprise why you are in the situation that you are. I'd say you've got a bit of work ahead of you.

Good luck.

[EpicBeta]

(04-30-2014 01:28 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

A little tough love in this post so brace yourself.

I'm extremely hesitant to give you even more reason to keep coming back and forth on your game plan here, but I wrote this earlier and I still honestly think it's the best approach

(04-22-2014 10:54 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

you have known each other for a long time. I think you can cut this woman out of your life without making it an act of nuclear war.

In other words, make it temporary. Resist the urge to tell her off. Be civil and recognize that you're just as much at fault for this as she is.

Maybe even send her a brief message about how you just need to be away from her for a while and get "this thing" out of your system - just so she doesn't riddle you with messages "wondering" what's going on and tempting you to reopen the conversation.

Then proceed with your game, fucking other women, getting in shape, etc. Focusing on yourself.

When the feelings pass (and they will), you're back in control of your own emotions and thought processes, and you're getting laid on the regular or in a relationship with someone else, then maybe you can be actual friends and not just having a pretend friendship with someone you're in love with. Might be a few months, might be a year - whatever - but I don't think you have to completely napalm your friend out of your life just because she wasn't into you.

You decided to take another approach, so I didn't mention it again, but honestly man, this mental back and forth you keep verbalizing is fucking painful. And the messages you mention wanting to send her are sheer cringeworthy. You are WAY in over your head with this girl and I don't think you have the witheral to coldly cut her out of your life the way guys are telling you too.

All I can say is it is blaringly obvious why you failed with this woman and why she treats you the way you do. We can demonize her all day, but you did this to yourself.

I can't say I haven't acted stupid over women myself, but there it is.

You can keep ignoring her completely if you want. I personally think it's just going to cause more drama than it's worth, and it's blowing her up even more in your mind, but you could just block her number and ride it out. She'll eventually go away (hopefully won't really call your parents).

Or you can do what I suggested, admit to her in a brief message that the friendship is just not healthy for you right now, and tell her you're going your own way and that maybe someday in the distant future you can be friends. And ask her to please stop contacting you.

Make it clear your decision has been made and that it's not up for discussion.

Does it show vulnerability and reinforce how much you like her? Sure. But who fucking cares. You are done with this girl, so why dwell on power plays? The important thing is separating yourself from this toxic relationship in the most effective, clean, drama-free way possible so you can do your thing.

You're not gaming her here - you're breaking away.

And then don't let her catch you up in a back and forth on it - you've said your piece and you are done, so you can go on ignoring her messages then if she refuses to honor your request. At that point, it's on her.

Here's the thing though. Pick a route - the one you're on or what I suggested - and stick with it. Stop with this back and forth and "should I send this lame, needy disguised as being tough" message shit or this one.

What you're doing here is training yourself to be weak-willed with women. You're also training yourself not to stick with your decisions. I repeat that it's no big surprise why you are in the situation that you are. I'd say you've got a bit of work ahead of you.

Good luck.

No arguments there. I didn't forget your advice (in fact it's still some of my favorite input), and I plan to go one of those two directions. Thanks

[Ajax]

Just stumbled across this thread, and it hit a cord. I had a somewhat similar (albeit on a much much smaller scale) toxic relationship when I was first getting into the game during college. Ended up totally ignoring her, then when I finally saw her again a couple of years ago with my new girl on my arm I couldn't even remember why I'd let her get sink her hooks in me in the first place.

EpicBeta, can you give us an update? Here's hoping things went well.

[Saweeep]

The best way is to stop contacting them.

Bump into them a few years and red pill later.

Fuck them senseless.

Have her tell you she's always loved you and wants a relationship.

Agree then never communicate with her again.

Karma's a bitch.

[EpicBeta]

Greetings alpha brothers!

It's been forever, but there's a new chapter in this saga.

Sorry for the lack of updates and thanks for asking how things are going. I really appreciate all the feedback. It's helped a lot.

I ended up coldly cutting this girl out of my life entirely. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done.

Now certain events have forced us to reconnect. I'm struggling a little with how to handle it. It's slightly complicated.

I know you guys don't like me posting giant essays on the forum, so this time I posted here instead:

http://textuploader.com/ofri

If anyone is interested to see where this went, I'd love to hear people's thoughts.

If not, that's okay too. Just needed to do some reflecting.

Thanks again y'all

Epic

[bojangles]

WOAH this is important as I know a few forum members are on this

Quote:

I'm going to pause the romantic drama to tell you about it because I know many forum members could be at risk of experiencing the same terrible ordeal. How many of you take propecia or finasteride for hair loss? A fair number I'm sure. Please research Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS) and avoid the nightmare that many have experienced from the side effects associated with this drug.

It started out as a prostate infection, but I was also noticing that my sex drive was much lower than usual, by around 80%. At first I chalked it up as stress, or maybe dealing with the "break up" (she was a huge part of my life). But this ebb just seemed to be lasting too long.

That's when I found out about PFS, which is now shown to cause permanent irreversible erectile dysfunction in some, and a host of other terrible side effects, even after discontinuation.

My friends, this is the most fucked up things you can go through; to be a horny 33 year old man, see beautiful women and essentially feel nothing. What's even stranger is that you don't care. The interest in even meeting women is just gone. All you can do is wonder if it's going to get worse and it puts you in a very dark fucked up place.

Fuck your hair. Honestly. It is not worth it. I would not wish this experience on my worst enemy and I hope anyone reading this will have the good sense not be a vain fucking idiot like me. There are natural ways to fight hairless and nobody cares if you lose your hair at the end of the day. If you're strong, confident, if you're a real man, women will bang. Don't let advertising dictate your self image. It's evil and just plain stupid.

You need to make a new thread about that

I'll address the rest in the second

[bojangles]

You have chronic oneitis, it's unbelievable. This is going to be your downfall, you're pining so hard for this girl its ridiculous. STOP IT. Date another girl, take her to the bar that she works at, get her to fuck off. You need to start approaching 6's and 7's, start connecting with other women. You've got a one track mind for this girl, I think its disgraceful.

http://the3bromigos.com/2013/05/08/broke...f-oneitis/
http://the3bromigos.com/2013/02/26/oneitis-the-disease/

Read those two.

[samsamsam]

Wow a lot has happened. I'm sure what bojangles has linked is appropriate (sorry in a hurry didn't read it bro).

So I'll give some script notes. First the good. Sounds like you have made a lot of progress in your life. Lifting, work etc. Sorry about the FPS.

Now the bad. First, this good friend of yours took the girl you always liked. Better yet he never mentioned that he was pursuing her even though he probably knew she was your friend. Interesting. Don't go back to her. Don't complicate your career and your other friendships even though your "good" friend fucked you by getting into this. Now granted my memory is bad. Did he step in after you wrote the letter?

You are young and in LA. You have a series that if good will get you some attention. Write a good part for a hot female and do a casting call. I'm sure you have heard of cazt. But if you're connected then you might have access to a better spot to have a casting call. I'm sure one of the girls you don't cast you can bang.

Just let it be. You were doing so well. Women like men who are successful. They test to see if they can control you and get you off course. Drain your resources and then find the next guy.

Look you have always seemed very genuine which is why I have always engaged on your thread. Yes, by now we would have hoped that she was out of your life. I also know that there are plenty of betas everywhere and your friends may be soft. Even in the industry you have your deouchebags but a lot of them seem weak. I have been on sets. I am not trying to be a dick. What I am getting at is post here as you work through it. I mean don't post everyday about nonsense but the stuff that troubles you. Read this thread when you are going through stuff. I don't recall anyone crapping on you in this thread. Unlike some other threads where the OP didn't get it.

In closing, stay away from her. She'll probably want you more because you are manning the Fuck up. Focus on career no need for extra drama when you should be making strides in your life. There may be some point where you can get a hate Fuck. But don't hold out for that shit. Think of all the drama you have already been through because of this. Finally, don't write long replies on a tablet excuse my errors.

[Seamus]

Quote:

I'm a little paranoid now, on top of having severe approach anxiety, which stems from other baggage. It's been several years since I've banged now (was broke for the first year or so in LA, spent the following years working full time and pursuing ambitious projects, so virtually no free time). Been out of the game too long. It's fucked me up, so now I have to get over this hurdle and get back out there.

This has to be addressed. It's been several years since you've slept with anyone? If that's the case, finding any random girl to break that streak should be your first and last priority right now. I don't care how in shape or professionally improved you are, if you're coming to this girl after a years long slump you are in a major position of weakness.

As for the approach anxiety, two words: online game.

[bojangles]

I was just harsh on him above but yes I forgot to address what Seamus did above. You're basically like the 40 year old virgin at present. Why can't you flip the script, this girl is hitting the wall soon, you're actually about to hit your prime, don't fucking lose the best years of your life to a girl that ignored you during her best years.

[Seamus]

I should say, I think being in touch with this girl at all is an absolutely terrible idea. It sounds like you've made some good strides, but you're clearly as wrapped up in this chick now as you were before, or almost anyway.

I understand what you're saying about fighting for what you really want, and not just meekly letting it slip out of your hands. That's why it feels worse to pussy out from approaching a hot girl than to get shot down. But that's not what's happening here.

You have tried. Repeatedly. And the result is you've lost years from your prime pining over a girl who's just not interested in you as anything more than a friend. A girl who, maliciously or not, has made your life a living hell.

Stop the fucking bleeding man. Cut this toxic chick out of your life once and for all. Avoid that bar if you have to, work with different people if you have to. Normally I'd agree that an ex shouldn't impact your life, but you're not a normal case. You're like an alcoholic who can't even be in the same room as a drink or he'll start relapsing.

Keep hitting the gym. Keep building your career. Spend a half hour a day on Okcupid, POF, and Tinder just blasting openers and get some bangs under your belt. Good luck man. It will be tough, but you can do it, and you'll be a helluva lot happier in the end.

[boinerd]

Why just leave the girl and find some fresh pussy?

I know its Easier said than done.

[samsamsam]

EB, so this popped into my head driving back from boxing. In a moment of clarity, you are fucking Ulysses and she is a fucking siren trying to lure you to your destruction. Fucking tie yourself to your ship's mast (in this case what you have been doing without her) and STAY THE FUCKING COURSE. Plus, add in getting laid. Just wrap it.

Quote:

A siren in Greek mythology was a creature half bird and half woman who lured sailors to destruction by the sweetness of her song. According to Homer there were two Sirens on an island in the western sea between Aeaea and the rocks of Scylla. Later the number was usually increased to three, and they were located on the west coast of Italy, near Naples. They were variously said to be the daughters of the sea god Phorcys or of the river god Achelous.

The Greek hero Odysseus (English: Ulysses), advised by the sorceress Circe, escaped the danger of their song by stopping the ears of his crew with wax so that they were deaf to the Sirens; yet he was able to hear the music and had himself tied to the mast so that he could not steer the ship out of course.

http://www.johnwilliamwaterhouse.com/pic...rens-1891/

Edit: Also it sounds like things are not the greatest in her life and with her boyfriend. Sounds like she is reaching out for you to save her. Don't. I mean, there is the remembering that she helped you (right? I think she helped you when you first got here with a place to live right? Or something. I don't exactly remember.) If she needs money, then throw her some money, never forget those who have helped you. But don't give her your time or attention. But honor the sacrifices others have made for you, that is what separates you from losers and women. Among other things of course.

@bojangles, good links!

[EpicBeta]

(11-06-2014 07:46 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

You have chronic oneitis, it's unbelievable. This is going to be your downfall, you're pining so hard for this girl its ridiculous. STOP IT. Date another girl, take her to the bar that she works at, get her to fuck off. You need to start approaching 6's and 7's, start connecting with other women. You've got a one track mind for this girl, I think its disgraceful.

http://the3bromigos.com/2013/05/08/broke...f-oneitis/
http://the3bromigos.com/2013/02/26/oneitis-the-disease/

Read those two.

Thanks a lot. Reading these. Cheers

[EpicBeta]

(11-06-2014 09:46 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Now the bad. First, this good friend of yours took the girl you always liked. Better yet he never mentioned that he was pursuing her even though he probably knew she was your friend. Interesting. Don't go back to her. Don't complicate your career and your other friendships even though your "good" friend fucked you by getting into this. Now granted my memory is bad. Did he step in after you wrote the letter?

Hey Sam! Sorry for the confusion. Just to clarify, it wasn't MY good friend who started dating her, but it is one of HIS best guy friends.

My good friend is married. He and his wife are my good friends, and were becoming very close, but I distanced my self a little when I found out their friend was now in a relationship with "my chick". I don't know that guy as well, but now I'm seeing him more frequently because of the project.

If my good friend went after her, knowing how I felt, I wouldn't consider him a friend.

Thanks for the great feedback as usual. Cheers

[el mechanico]

It maybe time to resort to only sending dick pics as replies.

And yes I'm serious.

[EpicBeta]

(11-06-2014 02:58 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Edit: Also it sounds like things are not the greatest in her life and with her boyfriend. Sounds like she is reaching out for you to save her. Don't. I mean, there is the remembering that she helped you (right? I think she helped you when you first got here with a place to live right? Or something. I don't exactly remember.) If she needs money, then throw her some money, never forget those who have helped you. But don't give her your time or attention. But honor the sacrifices others have made for you, that is what separates you from losers and women. Among other things of course.

That's what I was thinking. I want to be there for her to HELP if needed, because she DID help me a lot (I never forget those who help me). But it would have to be presented with clear boundaries as you said. No beta crap. But that's another big reason why I was wondering if I should contact her now to let her know she can hit me up if she's in a pinch, as it sounded like things were tough. I think she may have too much pride to just come forward and ask, especially after I harshly kicked her out of my life. But I hear what you guys are saying about staying away too.

Thanks

[samsamsam]

(11-06-2014 03:24 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

(11-06-2014 02:58 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Edit: Also it sounds like things are not the greatest in her life and with her boyfriend. Sounds like she is reaching out for you to save her. Don't. I mean, there is the remembering that she helped you (right? I think she helped you when you first got here with a place to live right? Or something. I don't exactly remember.) If she needs money, then throw her some money, never forget those who have helped you. But don't give her your time or attention. But honor the sacrifices others have made for you, that is what separates you from losers and women. Among other things of course.

That's what I was thinking. I want to be there for her to HELP if needed, because she DID help me a lot (I never forget those who help me). But it would have to be presented with clear boundaries as you said. No beta crap. But that's another big reason why I was wondering if I should contact her now to let her know she can hit me up if she's in a pinch, as it sounded like things were tough. I think she may have too much pride to just come forward and ask, especially after I harshly kicked her out of my life. But I hear what you guys are saying about staying away too.

Thanks

Then you do what stand up guys do. You find out from others her real situation is. If she is tight for money, you put it in an envelope, drive over to her work, hand it to her and walk off. I am sure it is easy to get the real 411 on her. Do it without fanfare. Don't embarrass her. You can say something about I remember when you helped me, if you feel the need to. And be done. Walk off into the sunset. The End, roll your fucking credits.

Starring

Alpha Male/Man of Integrity - Epic Beta
Ungrateful/Clueless former friend - former friend
Music by Bon Jovi - It's My Life
Music by Frank Sinatra - I Did It My Way
Giant Middle Finger - Created by Adobe Photoshop/After Effects

[EpicBeta]

(11-06-2014 10:21 AM)Seamus Wrote:  

This has to be addressed. It's been several years since you've slept with anyone? If that's the case, finding any random girl to break that streak should be your first and last priority right now. I don't care how in shape or professionally improved you are, if you're coming to this girl after a years long slump you are in a major position of weakness.

As for the approach anxiety, two words: online game.

You're so right. I agree 100%. I just HATE online shit. I'm on my phone and in front of monitors constantly. To make that my dating life too will probably kill my dick faster PFS hahaha. It's so much work to get a response if you're not a damn model or something. Just got tinder and that seems a little better.

I think I just need to force myself back out to venues and shock myself out of my phobia with real approaches, either alone or with a buddy. It's hard to find a good wing though. It seems like there's always some kind of an issue that prevents them from being helpful. Think I'm going to try to learn solo game instead.

Anyway, yes you're right. I hear you for sure. Break the streak first and foremost. Thanks

[EpicBeta]

(11-06-2014 11:28 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I was just harsh on him above but yes I forgot to address what Seamus did above. You're basically like the 40 year old virgin at present. Why can't you flip the script, this girl is hitting the wall soon, you're actually about to hit your prime, don't fucking lose the best years of your life to a girl that ignored you during her best years.

I don't mind you guys being harsh. I need that. And yes, I follow your logic. Make's all kinds of sense. I'm a creature of logic. That's how much power she has over me. Like I said it's a real hang up. I'm working on it and I hear what you're saying. Thanks

[EpicBeta]

[/quote]

Then you do what stand up guys do. You find out from others her real situation is. If she is tight for money, you put it in an envelope, drive over to her work, hand it to her and walk off. I am sure it is easy to get the real 411 on her. Do it without fanfare. Don't embarrass her. You can say something about I remember when you helped me, if you feel the need to. And be done. Walk off into the sunset. The End, roll your fucking credits.

Starring

Alpha Male/Man of Integrity - Epic Beta
Ungrateful/Clueless former friend - former friend
[/quote]

Hahaha ok thanks