[Santa]

We've all been there, but you also need to look at yourself (and you are, which is great), I'd re-read what you wrote in the 1st message. Yes, it's true, she did many things (maybe not consciously or intentionally that did string you along, but it sounds like at times she was torn- and if you were more in touch with your masculine 'don't give a shit' side you would have at least got the bang)...BUT
Not getting her may be the BEST thing that ever happened to you.

What would happen if you did get in a relationship with her or do in the future. You've said yourself that you have certain beta ways that you are working on...You need to be thinking what's the most important things for YOU. For YOUR development and YOUR life.
I don't think you were trolling with going out with 9s or 10s- I've known people like that with your dynamics, and I was one of them at times too.
The way you've described your text convos since the first post suggests you've still got a lot to develop to really become the best man you can be. Strong, focused, following your direction, and bringing woman into your world.

You are JUST starting your peak years now. It's all uphill if you keep working on yourself, self reflecting and increasing your experience (through yourself and other people's experiences like resources like roosh's forum/blog/bks and other places).
You need to make a decision about what you really want. What you want from life. You need to be willing to walk away, and really feel that. Ironically it will make her more attracted to you, but you really have to find that place.

From what you've said, to become the best man you can be, I think you need to find a way to cut ties with her emotionally, and that may mean doing it physically too. You could probably be upfront with her about it (considering the convos you've shared with her before), and even say you'll give her a ring in 5-10 years even. But YOU then have to follow through. YOU haven't so far. YOU had that last heart to heart and then accepted her 'friendship' again. You do need to be aware of her actions, and how they have led you on, but you've got to look deeper at yourself, what you could have done differently and what you should do differently NOW. Your words, thoughts and actions aren't lining up. What you say you want (and what you've told her) aren't lining up with the actions you have been taking (and still are from your recent text messages).

And as the other poster The Chef said, change your username.

[amity]

(04-03-2014 06:00 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

wow I read all of that, you're invested way too much in a transaction out of which you seem to be losing money. It's like you're a partnership in a business where you've both put in 50% but you're only getting 10-20% and she's getting 80-90%, get the hell out and concentrate on women.

The best way to 'break up' is to do how you do it with your loser guy friends, slowly dial down all communication until they become acquaintances. then on the odd occasion you see them, you get the whole 'how you been' 'what you been up to', I can handle that shit, you'll be able to too as you continue along this path.

Without wishing to sidetrack the debate (as I know this is about female best friends), but what you've said above is exactly how I deal with male acquaintances, particularly the blue pill guys in my circle and it's really the only way to roll with these guys who are not losers per se, but just a bit dull or unispiring to be around. Still at the end of the day, they're good guys, salt of the earth, and I know they'd help me out if I was stuck, so don't want to be the prick who cuts off all contact, just cos they're normal provider betas like 80-90% of the male populace

[magellan]

I don't agree with keeping your "friend" around. All the female "friends" I have are ones that I barely talk to, will hit up when I'm in town, haven't hooked up with (but definitely could), lightly flirt with, have hooked up with other girls in our mutual social circle, and more importantly of all: I do not give a single shit about them.

I've been plagued with some serious oneitis in the past, in fact I'm just coming out of now. My hope is that after enough of them I'll no longer get them at all. They get easier to walk away from each time. I went through the same progression as you. I wanted to make a "clear break." What this means is that I wanted to make it known explicitly that the "relationship" was ending and to not contact me. What I really wanted was to cause a scene and get some attention for it, for her to know that I was walking away. The quote about the best revenge not being served at all is exactly right. It's not a conscious decision you make to ignore her in hopes that she'll notice. It's that you genuinely don't care anymore. Whether she knows it or not. I ultimately chose not to do that, but to just shy away and cut all contact (read: ignore) until enough time has passed where I no longer care. And probably still cut contact even after that.

If you still believe that this girl is your "friend," then just go for broke. Go over for wine, get drunk, make a definitive move. If you bang, great. If not, then that'll be the push you need to end this for good on your terms. Either we bang, or we're not in contact. To quote Alec Baldwin in Glengarry: "It's fuck or walk."

God I love sales. Working on getting a sales job at a startup company right now. The knowledge that I can work people and build something great simultaneously gives me righteous boners. Find a similar passion that has nothing to do with women and pursue it while your brain rids itself of this toxic addiction.

http://playersjourney.net/note-one-itis-...nner-game/

[EpicBeta]

Hello friends of the forum. Thanks again for all the wonderful advice on this thread. I read and re-read all of it many times.

I had opted to just start ignoring my " best friend" more and more until she got the hint and let us drift apart naturally, while I focus on myself -personal growth and goals.

My time has been severely limited but I managed to get some numbers and go on a date. But the progress is increasing and things are looking good.

On surprising development is that my "best friend's" girlfriend who she always wanted to set me up with responded to a message I sent her on Facebook about an actor table read. She had previously always been too busy, usually to even respond to my friendly texts or fb invites. But she wanted to go. She came over, road to the reading with me, and we had a great time. I wanted her to come out for drink after or hang out at my place, but she had to be up around 5am the next day. She seemed genuinely interested in hanging out again soon so I'm trying to game her now, along with a couple other new chicks.

My "best friend" started to notice that I was giving her the cold shoulder. To recap my first giant post a tiny bit; I fell in love with my friend of 17 years and confessed my feelings to her in person about a year ago, and also wrote her a couple of lengthy letters along the way. She was very sympathetic and concerned but didn't no how to deal with it. Unfortunately she kind of put it on the back burner hoping the problem would solve itself more than once, and made the problem worse. I had to be confronted with some unpleasant surprises etc.

So she noticed that I'm ignoring her and sent me an email yesterday to respond to the letters I wrote her WAY back when. I was doing fine with the plan of just ignoring and blowing her off, but I just found out (from her email) that she went out on a date with someone she met through me at my bday outing a little over a month ago, which was the last time I saw her.

This put me over the edge for a number of reasons and I wrote a long angry email calling her out on everything she's ever done and ending the poisonous relationship once and for all. I haven't sent it, but I really want to. I feel like a junky on the verge of a relapse.

So I thought I'd post her email, and the reply I haven't sent yet, in case anyone wants to chime in. My judgment is impaired on this so I'm not sure if I should be encouraged or talked out of this. However I want to warn everyone in advance that it's very long. I understand if ppl don't want to read it, or just skim it. No pressure to dissect or offer further advice on this.  I'll decide what's best myself either way and will probably have a better idea of what I should do after some more reflection time. Definitely going to edit it more if I do send it. It's just a first draft. Might decide against it all together.

Maybe I should first try and fuck her friend, and/or try to somewhat leave open the remote possibility of one day fucking her (my "best friend") out of spite, as part of me still wants to. But I know that's also very regressive and a bit self destructive. I don't know. I'm just fucking pissed off right now and I want to tell her off once and for all. Not sure what will bring me the most satisfaction/closure at the end of the day or help my personal growth. Right now it feels like sending the letter will bring the most satisfaction at least in the short term, but I'm aware of how emotions cloud judgement, and I agree with some of the earlier arguments against that approach.
 
Anyway, I'm going to post a couple new threads about my fitness goals and recent progress with dating/gaming this week. When I do I'll change my profile name to something other than Epic Beta, as some of you suggested.

Thanks again,

EB


---

FROM MY "BEST FRIEND":


Ok.....so I know I have never actually responded to any of your letters, and I'm sorry but I just didn't know what to say or how to react really.  And then I finally thought, maybe there isn't a "right" thing to say or not say, maybe I should just tell you some of what I'm thinking (I know, revolutionary right?  Sorry I'm slow).
I guess the bottom line is people can't control the way they feel, and that's just the way it is.  You have to live your life and move forward the best way you know how, and I have to live mine.  I want you to be happy, whatever that means to you.  If that means I don't get to be a part of your life, or my role is smaller that it has been in the past, I will graciously accept that despite the difficulty.  

  As I'm sure you noticed, **** (with the glasses) was kind of hitting on me at your birthday thing.  I kind of weaseled out of it and made it a group thing with the wine party at my house that you weren't able to come to.  And I cancelled once after that and kept making excuses, just because I didn't want to cause any drama between you and I.  And then I just thought, this is silly.  I would never want you to avoid someone on my behalf, and why would he want that for me?  And I realized I was projecting it on you and maybe that wasn't a thought of yours at all.  And then I thought how can I tiptoe around my life worrying about what other people (despite how much I may love them) want me to do or not do?  And I thought, what the heck, what is one date, I'll just go have sushi with the guy.  And then I went right back to avoiding him, worrying about you.  I'm not saying that I'm going to actually date him, I probably won't.  I just felt like it would be weird not to mention it, or to have you hear through the grape vine, and I thought you should know how I feel about the whole situation and this kind of makes it impossible to keep NOT addressing it.  And I guess if going out with the guy makes me a selfish asshole, then that's what I am.  Personally my situation is odd.  I am really enjoying my freedom, no obligations to anyone, no relationship to constantly analyze, work on, try for....ug it's exhausting.  And I'm so happy to be on my own.  I still talk to **** a lot (HER EX), he is going through a lot of personal growth and texting me romantic things all the time, which is .... different.  And I have to say I enjoy it.  So I have no idea where the road I am on will lead to, and I am perfectly happy just enjoying the journey right now.  

Work is still up in the air, in all aspects, keeping me really annoyingly busy, but I guess in this lull of a saturday afternoon while cleaning up for my guests (my cousin **** and her boyfriend arrive tomorrow afternoon) my mind finally found it's way to this subject in what seemed like a way I could express.


***** told me she had a great time at a reading with you last week.  She also mentioned she told you about ***** I just keep telling myself he will be home any day now, been searching, putting up signs and trying to reach a pet psychic... I'll be sure to let you know WHEN he comes home.  I didn't want you to worry about him.


Hope you and the **** are well
Much love



---

MY PENDING REPLY:


You're right this is very late. Too late even. I've already reached a shutdown point. It's surprising I lasted this long. Here is an email I wrote you the day after my birthday:
--

Always remember that I love you and I'm forever grateful for everything you've ever done for me. You're a giant part of who I am and you always will be. I'm glad you came to my bday. Needed to see you.  

Unfortunately our relationship is toxic in ways that are hard to see but impossible to overcome, so I can't have you in my life anymore. I have to ask that you not contact me from now on (unless it's a life/death emergency). That means no texts, calls or emails. Nothing.

I'm sorry for the abruptness of this. I never meant to let us get to this point and much of the blame falls on me.

Please take good care of yourself. You deserve to be happy.

Miss you always xo

--

I had my finger on the send button several times, but decided that after a 17-year friendship I'd better do some more soul searching before taking this definitive step. Thought I owed you that much. Started focusing hard on my own growth and fitness, started having breakthroughs, then decided maybe it would be better just to avoid you until you got the hint and let us drift apart naturally. For some reason after seeing your letter it no longer feels like an adequate solution.

To put it in perspective one last time, two of my worst memories ever are when I visited you in **. You let me, a guy with feelings for you, FLY to see you on valentine's day, just to shoot me down and reject me. Really? you started dating someone just a few days before I landed?? We'd made out the last time we were together; you didn't think I might expect an actual valentine's day? How could you let me travel all that way?

On that trip I learned that the only thing more painful than being rejected by someone you have feelings for is having to be stuck with them afterwards for days. But it even gets worse than that; we spent those nights cuddling. This made me think that you did have feelings for me, but wouldn't let anything else happen because of your guilty conscience. That's how confused I was. My brain actually told me that if you were single it would be different.

That led me to making one of the worst decisions of my life; flying to visit you a second time once you'd supposedly broken up, only to have this happen all over again for some other bullshit reason. You can't imagine the humiliation. If I had been the person I am today we never would have spoke again after the first round of punishment. It's only because I was a total retard schmuck that I accepted that treatment and stayed friends with you. It's hilarious to think that I was the one later apologizing to you for my "behavior"; being male and having feelings.

I know this is ancient history, and you never had any idea how your actions affected me. Obviously I should be way over it, and on paper I have been for a long time. The problem is that this is our whole relationship now. Whenever we hang out, I feel like I'm on those trips from Hell, trapped with the person who's made me feel like shit better than anyone. I deeply regret ever flying to visit you, and I wish one of us would have had the sense to have boundaries in our friendship when I moved out here. That was our fatal mistake. Things will never be the same again. It's time to accept that.

It's clear to me now that you still have no idea how your actions affect me. You basically ambushed me by not telling me about the break up with ****. The whole point of spilling my guts to you was to try and prepare for things that would drastically effect our friendship. I went to pretty great lengths to explain what was at stake and why (a brutal face-face + 2 giant letters -saying WAY too much), and I think it was pretty clear that I didn't want to be surprised  with anything or slapped in the face by ***** (HER EX WHO SHE VISTED ON VDAY) or anyone else.

After everything I said, and all the personal turmoil, I had to have this sprung on me; "oh, btw I've been single for the last 3 months lol, and I'm not going to see you now for almost 2 months because I'm flying out to ** twice then Hawaii with god knows who. Have a fun trip home to ** boo! xoxo and when I do see you again, I'll spring it on you that I'm visiting my high school sweetheart for valentine's day. luv luv!"

My confession and letters were cries for help. The message was that I was going through Hell and it was only getting worse so some kind of action was going to be needed. Aside from briefly acknowledging my pain, you're response the very next day after my last letter was a text; "My brothers getting married! Yay! Hey what are you doing today, wanna go to a potluck w/me??" Issue forgotten. Back to acting like everything's just fine between us. All I can think is, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Seriously ****, I know you didn't know what to say to me, but that doesn't mean that we didn't need to talk. I've never known what to say or how to respond when I needed to talk to someone seriously. I can only guess that the reason you're addressing this now is because you noticed that I'm ignoring you, but it's too late. Putting me on the back burner, expecting this to just blow over, pretending it never happened; those are the worst things you could have done if you cared about me or our friendship.

In all the years I've known you, I never took you for a coward, but now I can really see just how cruel you are, unintentional as that may be. You say life plays cruel jokes (REFERRING TO ONE OF HER PREVIOUS RESPONSES), but none are as cruel as the ones you yourself have played on both of us. What was I supposed to think for the last year, after you didn't back off from the friendship at all, or talk to me about this? You didn't think that might create a glimmer of hope somewhere, despite my constant efforts to bury it? Aren't you the one who lectured me about feeding hope in my last relationship? I thought you understood these things.

I don't know what you could've expected me to do with radio silence on the issue. Of course you needed time. I never tried to rush you into dealing with it. I just didn't expect you to wait until I shut down completely. That's what it took to get you there. I don't believe you would've sent the email had I not become distant. It's hard to imagine you're too oblivious to notice the difference in my communication as of late, but in retrospect, maybe you are. I don't know. Whatever.

The fact that you would go out on a date with someone I essentially introduced you to really demonstrates how removed you were from any appropriate sense of how to deal with this. I never would have told you not to date someone, but hoped that we'd at least talk about our problem at some point to establish some rules and/or boundaries to a avoid getting hurt more. I never wanted you to hold back from dating on my account, but I told you that I couldn't be exposed to it. That meant that we had a serious problem on the horizon; there's no way to hide your love life from your "best friend." I don't know what more I could've ever expressed to warrant penciling in a discussion in our somewhat near future. But whatever. That ship sailed. 

It's funny; I noticed an odd look of pity from *****'s friends when your name came up the last few times -someone always asks me how you're doing when I'm with that crowd. I thought it was mostly in my head, but now that I know you went out with someone in that circle it makes perfect sense. Most of them know very well that I'm in love with you because they've seen us together on numerous occasions. They aren't blind and stupid about it like us, and if they didn't know, I'm sure they'd feel comfortable talking about your date in front of me. Interesting development to say the least. It's also funny that you avoided him to prevent drama between us, as if there wasn't already a lot. You're obviously very good at hiding things from yourself. Must be a defense mechanism.

In a way I'm glad you went out with **** because it makes it easier for me to do what's needed now. In fact, it's the main reason I decided to write you back instead of ignoring your email. But even before that awesome news I was in a really bad place with you. You've become little more than an emotional vampire in my world. I can't think about you without feeling angry and upset, which is really unfortunate after everything we've been through. Perhaps never seeing me again will teach you to be more aware of male/female boundaries in the future (WE ARE NOT YOUR BROTHER), and prevent you from hurting people and damaging friendships with guys (and I know I share a lot of the blame with ours). 

But that said, you should really wake up to the fact that ANY man you are friends with is trying to sleep with you, or hopes to one day, unless he's trying to sleep with your friends. NONE would pass up on the opportunity if it was presented. You have to know this. If you think there are exceptions or that the friendships have further significance, you're severely delusional, but I don't buy that. I think part of you understands this well. With the amount of male attention you've had in your life it should be no secret, so what does it say that you need to hang out with men who want you? Whether it's direct or indirect, those are their intentions because it's in their nature.

There's no way around this and I'll be perfectly honest with you; unless we're dating or sleeping together, our interactions are forced. Shocking? No. That's called being a guy. It's my nature. I cannot help it, and it has nothing to do with character, ethics or morals. Those don't even factor in. I could show you plenty of scientific studies that confirm this. If you come over for an entire weekend, lie next to me and radiate your female energy, as a guy it's impossible to just continually, passively absorb it. Yes things were different before I fell for you, and could see your relationship was going nowhere. And yes our friendship has meaning because of our long history, but I want more. The friendship doesn't exist without that other side of who I am and how I feel. You can't have one without the other. It just doesn't work that way if we're being completely honest.

That's why I find it hilarious when you talk about introducing me to other guy friends because we'd "like each other." Do you really think either of us gives a shit? No guy likes to be set up on adult play dates, but most entertain it because they're trying to get with you. Simple as that. Every minute I'm stuck smiling, nodding and bantering with some dude is just time that I want to spend alone with you. Guys are not out here trying to make guy friends, EVER. Those happen naturally and very easily for us. If we meet someone cool that's great, but it's never a goal or a social incentive of any kind. Our interactions with you when broken down are about intimacy or sex; usually just sex.

The weak, thirsty beta-males who stay in your orbit are basically there to fulfill your male sensitivity needs, while you date alpha males to fulfill your other needs. I don't think I was ever your real best friend; more like a favorite crutch. I'm done playing that role for anyone. It's an evil trap that real men avoid at all costs. And you should only want to be with someone who fulfills all of your needs. You're balancing act is a colossal waste of time and totally self destructive. The huge chunks of time you spent bonding with me while **** was ignoring your companionship needs, was time you should have spent looking for someone better and kicking him out of your life. No, it's not easy to find someone that meets all the criteria; it requires serious time and effort and that goes for anyone.

I don't accept what we are. I could while you were in a committed relationship, with someone who was very nice to me and we were all roommates. But as a man, I can't accept it now, and that's what I was trying to make clear and prepare us for, incase we could salvage something. I was left to resolve that on my own, and I'm sorry about this, but you don't get to friend-zone me. Nobody does. I have way too much dignity for that now. I'm just not the sad sack idiot I was in my early twenties.

It's not like I can't see the positive in not ending up with you. Some would say it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I checked my fitness progress recently and was shocked at my physical transformation over the last year. Had no idea how far I've come. I'm really pumped to see where I am in another 1-2 years, as my career reaches the next level. I'm reading, lifting, meditating, and I quit smoking pot. I've started getting numbers and going out with some hot girls almost 10 years younger than me. My dating market value is going up over the next 10 years. That should be more than enough to make me happy and forget about you.

The idea that I would rather open up my heart and give myself to someone my own age who I've known my entire life and been hurt by repeatedly, for all of eternity means that I really am in love with you, or I've suffered a complete mental break down. You somehow crushed my desires to play the field as a successful single guy. I would've given that up in a second, and whether you believe it or not there's nobody else I could ever say that about. I just wish you hadn't also crushed my ability to have you in my life, because in every other way, you've been the absolute best friend anyone could hope for.

Maybe that's why I can't get over you. I know in my heart that for probably years to come, it won't matter who I date, or how sexy or cool anyone is. They just don't compare. Nobody tops you. For some reason, even after all the pain you've caused me, you're still the girl of my dreams. Hopefully that isn't the case forever, but that's how it feels right now.

I guess I just wish you'd had the courage to look me in the face and tell me unequivocally that there was no chance of you ever having feelings for me, and that you'd accept losing me entirely before ever exploring the idea. That would have released me from your emotional clutches in a sense, instead of forcing me to interpret your vague responses and behavior towards me over the last year. It might have been possible to gracefully reduce your role in my life as opposed to ending it completely. I guess it's impossible to say for sure but I wanted to try. Maybe that was irrational though. Maybe I was just trying to hang on and keep you close, but we should have at least tried talking about it. I can't help but feel like our relationship would be in better shape today if we had. 

Not sure what else to say. I'm really beaten down and angry. Gracefully bowing out of my life is probably the only logical way to go at this point. But I'm sure you'll run away to Hawaii or wherever soon enough, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to you. Maybe your strategy was right. Ignore the problem and it will eventually go away forever. I know losing me will make you sad for a period, but I'm sure you will adjust to life without me soon enough. This will not make me happy by any means. There's no happy scenario for me as far as you and I go, but it might be the only way to become less unhappy in the long term.

The bottom line is you shouldn't even want further contact with me. It's a one-sided friendship at the end of the day and there's no way to fix that. Hanging out with men who want you doesn't say good things about your character, and I honestly believe that you're better than that inside. You just need to stop that behavior. In the end it's going to hurt you far worse than any guys on the receiving end who get their hearts broken. I hate to think of that being your romantic fate. You do deserve better and I hope you quit sabotaging yourself. 

Ofta, ok…. wow… what else… I feel like I have to say everything in case it's the last time we communicate. Probably a huge mistake I'm going to regret right away, that will bring long periods of sadness and turmoil, but it can't be worse than what I've already been going through, and I should probably have everything off my chest for closure.

Glad things are going better for ****. Got a text from him last week that he's planning to pay me back for covering his last phone payment (HER EX IS ON MY FAMILY PLAN AND HE'S BEEN UNEMPLOYED FOR OVER A YEAR -JUST NEED TO RUB IT IN, SINCE SHE'S LOOKING AT HIM AGAIN). I wish him the best and I still like him as a person. If you want to give him another 5 years of your life that's certainly your prerogative. Don't let me stand in the way of anyone you want to see, date, fuck, whatever. It doesn't matter how that affects me/us anymore, so don't be burdened with that concern. There's no point.   

Glad to hear ***** had fun the other day. Didn't actually expect her to follow up. Can't tell if she wants to hang out more, and I don't care either way. She's cool, beautiful, but like you I'm not planning ahead with anything right now.

Glad you're enjoying your freedom, and I'm glad your mind finally made it's way around to this subject in a way that was inspiring enough to say… anything. Sorry for the angry sarcasm. This has been incredibly hard on me.

All anger and hurt feelings aside, I'm very sorry to hear about *****. That's too bad. I hope he finds his way home to you. Losing a pet is absolutely terrible and I do feel rather awful about not texting you when I found out. 

Please be well. I still love you to death and in my heart I always will. You are my favorite person on this planet. I can only hope that one day I'll meet someone who makes me laugh and feel the way you do. I wish there was some way I could make all of this better, but I suppose that's one of life's cruel jokes that you were talking about.  

[samsamsam]

Just ignore it. Live your life well. Leave it at that. No need to say miss you always. Just let it fade.

Don't get drawn in. Have her female hamster spin. Don't talk about her with people she knows, so if gets back to her.

Just get some willpower and shut it down.

As a favor, in the future do some quick bullet summary before all the text. A tlr as the internet folks like to call it. I skimmed it for the parts I thought were relevant and I know your story, so I wanted to help. But it was a lot of text.

Live well, let this go.

Edit: I glanced over your post again. Here is my experience, not the truth, just what I am sensing. You are just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo caught up in her. Let it go for your own mental health.

[EpicBeta]

(04-20-2014 09:42 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Just ignore it. Live your life well. Leave it at that. No need to say miss you always. Just let it fade.

Don't get drawn in. Have her female hamster spin. Don't talk about her with people she knows, so if gets back to her.

Just get some willpower and shut it down.

As a favor, in the future do some quick bullet summary before all the text. A tlr as the internet folks like to call it. I skimmed it for the parts I thought were relevant and I know your story, so I wanted to help. But it was a lot of text.

Live well, let this go.

Edit: I glanced over your post again. Here is my experience, not the truth, just what I am sensing. You are just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo caught up in her. Let it go for your own mental health.

Thanks Sam,

I kind of tried to summarize it in my intro section before the emails, but I'll organize it better as TLDR w bullet points in the future. You're right, my intro ended up being more long winded that I intended, go figure. lol

Cheers!

P.S. I like your suggestion and will try do that. It's just a challenge because there's so much anger and shit I want to say to her. But you're right, I should have the will power to shut it down and not let her control my emotions. It's just fucking hard right now. Ugh

[samsamsam]

It isn't about should. We are not robots. We have to work at stuff to improve ourselves. I am not saying you should have the willpower, I have had my moments as well. I just suggest that you control it and move on. I still have flashbacks of things that have happened in the past and get angry, it is being human.

Write her a giant fucking hate letter and burn it. Let her go. Write it by hand much more meaningful and no accidental email send lol. Perform a little ceremony if you want, I know it sounds wimpy. But do what you have to, whatever works for you - means it works. But let it go.

DON'T CONTACT HER.

You don't need to shit on her to feel better. I don't respect people who lash out to hurt others, because they are hurt. Just deal with your hurt. Write the letter. From a responsible place, you let it get to this point where you built all these feelings for her. At any point prior, you could have said something and invested less emotionally. But I bet you, like a lot of dudes do, just tried the friend route hoping she would fall in love with you.

So you did this to yourself because you didn't "man" up sooner.

Better to live life well, and have her hear how great you are doing. And how much hot ass you are getting. That would be quite the punishment. Her messing her situation by not dating you.

[EpicBeta]

(RE: 3 POSTS ABOVE - INTRO SUMMARY IN THE POST IS SORT OF THE TLDR VERSION)

Man, I hear you loud and clear and what you're saying make's perfect sense. It would just be so much easier if she was just a friend or even a close friend, but we're talking about a best friend of almost 2 decades, especially the last 5 years. We've been tight for so long and we talked about EVERYTHING forever. Our families, close friends, they know each other well. It's fucked up. it just feels impossible to not say anything. Her cat that disappeared; I helped rescue as a kitten when we were roommates. It's way out of character for me not to even acknowledge something like that, or just not being open with her about my feelings.

I know, I know, that's stupid and beta and counter productive to my growth and even what I'd like to accomplish with her (letting go forever or trying to nail her once out of spite). I agree with the advice to just quit responding and I fully intend to follow it, but that's a BIG deal. Like I said, if we were just regular friends with a normal sized history, I could handle it a lot better.

You're right that I didn't exactly man up and take control of this at an earlier point but I feel like I attempted to. When I confessed my feelings to her in person, the idea was that she was supposed to indicate if there was any possibility for us to be more than friends or not, and then I could behave accordingly. But she never came out and said - no it will NEVER happen between us, it's impossible. She was vague and seemingly uncertain. She didn't back off, even after a big dramatic face to face confession and two letters. So I didn't exactly have a reason to invest less when I was going through this, but that's what I was trying to get out of her. She kind of gave me a reason to hang on to a glimmer of hope, even thought I tried hard to let go of that.

Yes I'm pissed off right now. Soooooo fucking pissed off and hurt and I'm trying to keep it under control. I do want to lash out badly, but I recognize the weakness of that believe me. I feel the same about people who lash out on others when they are hurt. It's a giant pet peeve of mine and I never do that because I think it's a pathetic personality trait. In this instance I mainly just want her know realize exactly how she's made me feel and what she's done to our friendship. I want her to know exactly how bad she fucked me up. Yes, that's a little sadistic, because I know it will make her feel bad, and that's partially to make me feel better. That is sort shitting on her to feel better, but I feel like it goes a little beyond that too because of our relationship. Because we were such close friends, I feel like I have to let her know exactly what she did and how it affected me. That's what "best friends" are supposed to do.

But I do keep rationalizing trying to hurt her with this letter. I mean she's ruined so many of my days making me miserable. I feel robbed. Since the turmoil began (which I made an effort to address/resolve - and it was fucking hard), I've had so many days where some bullshit with her came up and my entire day turned to shit, almost always when I had important shit going on and didn't need the drama. What's a couple days of her feeling bad? No way will she experience as much pain as me. She'll be over it in a couple/few days. It's a tiny bit of justice lol. Again, I know this is just me rationalizing telling her off to feel better, because I'm mad as Hell.

I'm definitely not trying to argue against what you're saying and I know the best punishment will be me doing awesome, living well and not giving a damn about her shenanigans. But this is a huge dramatic step. In fact, I feel like ignoring her completely, with the news about the cat is almost too aggressive in a way? Like that's an obvious lashing out/trying to hurt her...

The other thing is that it's driving me fucking crazy that she's holding back on dating ppl to not create drama between us, because she's "worried" about me and doesn't want to hurt me, when A) there's already a fuck ton of drama between us, so that's absurd, and B) I'm not being that big of a baby about it. I told her that I'd NEVER want her to not date someone because of me. It's just that I don't want to be a part of her dating life (because we talked about relationships and dating all the time before) and we'd probably have to change or friendship very significantly, if not end it, once she decides to start dating again (if it's not me).

It fucking kills me that she doesn't fully grasp what I went through Hell to make clear. It fucking kills me that she thinks she can casually try to address this NOW and that it's just fine, and that she's pretending she finally got around to it in "a way she can express", even though it's obviously because I started ignoring her. She would have let this go forever had I not reached a breaking point and shut down completely. ARRRRRGH! FUCK! I'm sooo angry lol. Yes I want her to feel like shit, but I want it to be from knowing how badly she fucked up our friendship and how careless she was with my feelings, when she supposedly loved and cared about me. The behavior is fucking inexcusable. How do I not call it out and just shut everything down cold turkey?

It's so true that she's like a drug and I'm like a junky trying not to relapse. I'm sure when I calm down after a couple days I'll find the idea of ignoring her shit test (if that's what it is) much more satisfying. It probably would will fuck with her more in the long run if I don't get roped in. So I'm going to do my best. But let me know if you think any of the above points change your opinion about what I should do.

On the bright side her friend is banging, and I gotta make that shit happen. It would be cool in general, but an interesting way to fuck with the "best friend" as an added bonus. The other girl I went out with recently too was even hotter. So I'm very excited about those two prospects, and there are even couple of other attractive possibilities. Hooking up with any of them would help me feel better about all of this no doubt, so I'm making it a goal, and I'll keep trying to get more #s along the way.

Sorry to keep this thread going. I'm sure ppl are tired of seeing it. It's just that this latest development got me really worked up. I wish she didn't have this much of an effect on me. I've been doing very well at creating distance and rising above this shit. But there's it's still a terrible struggle because of all the damn history etc. Hopefully it will get easier soon.

Thanks for talking me down I appreciate you noting that this kind of thing is hard for you too and that we're all human, so it's impossible to avoid the hurt feelings and anger. Gotta really work to not let it get the best of you and continure growing. Couldn't agree more.

[tawillionaire]

Gonna go against the grain here and say hurting her may make you feel better. I once sent an ex girlfriend a text telling her that I fucked her friend and that her friend gave way better head than her (all true by the way). She didn't respond, and I haven't talked to her since, but it still felt pretty good and was a fun story to tell my friends. I consider that the moment I got my balls back after a relationship that took me out of myself.

In hindsight, I was being too nice by only sending a text. Should have sent a picture or video instead.

[EpicBeta]

(04-21-2014 10:12 AM)tawillionaire Wrote:  

Gonna go against the grain here and say hurting her may make you feel better. I once sent an ex girlfriend a text telling her that I fucked her friend and that her friend gave way better head than her (all true by the way). She didn't respond, and I haven't talked to her since, but it still felt pretty good and was a fun story to tell my friends. I consider that the moment I got my balls back after a relationship that took me out of myself.

In hindsight, I was being too nice by only sending a text. Should have sent a picture or video instead.

Hahaha Ya I can relate. I feel like I've just let her off the hook WAY too many times and it would be so much easier to move on if I thoroughly call her out just once. And maybe this way I can get her out of my life and head faster, if that's best thing to do - so she's not lingering in my mind. And if I'm never seeing her again, what does it matter if I tell her off? At least she'll finally fully realize what an asshole she was, and what she threw away.

It's a tough call though. The alternative method (ignoring her, living well, banging hotties) makes a lot of sense and will probably be the most satisfying in the long run, but who knows how long it will take to impact her - not that this should my top priority. The hamster wheel will probably run a lot more if I do ignore her. And maybe telling her off givers HER too much closure. It will just require a lot more patience on my end, because I want to relieve my anger NOW. It's hard to just sit here and focus on life knowing that she doesn't fully understand our conflict and her actions + the other stuff I mentioned in this page of the thread.

I just don't want the ignoring her/trying to forget route to have the reverse effect and make it too easy on her. By the time she does see I'm doing well etc losing me might not matter to her anymore because I just drifted away. Part of me wants her to have the shock of knowing that she fucked up and lost her best friend forever. If I wait, I feel like she might get away with all her bullshit, and it will be too late to call her out in any way. Won't matter to her anymore. This is obviously bothering her now, and I'd like to be hit her with it while she's vulnerable. Kind of wanted to send it yesterday while she was hanging out with her cousin for easter - fuck up one of her days for once like she has so many of mine.

But I know that's letting the anger get the best of me, and I still see the validity and revenge value of ignoring her. The main drawback is that it actually getting her out of my head/letting go will be harder/slower this way. Probably worth the effort.

Still don't know for sure. Going to have to sleep on it a couple more days. Thanks for adding your two cents!

[magellan]

Definitely let it go man - it's the best revenge by far. If any response to what she wrote you, but be aloof, have a "no idea what you're talking about" vibe, keep it short, and stick to the original plan.

[tawillionaire]

(04-21-2014 01:40 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 10:12 AM)tawillionaire Wrote:  

Gonna go against the grain here and say hurting her may make you feel better. I once sent an ex girlfriend a text telling her that I fucked her friend and that her friend gave way better head than her (all true by the way). She didn't respond, and I haven't talked to her since, but it still felt pretty good and was a fun story to tell my friends. I consider that the moment I got my balls back after a relationship that took me out of myself.

In hindsight, I was being too nice by only sending a text. Should have sent a picture or video instead.

Hahaha Ya I can relate. I feel like I've just let her off the hook WAY too many times and it would be so much easier to move on if I thoroughly call her out just once. And maybe this way I can get her out of my life and head faster, if that's best thing to do - so she's not lingering in my mind. And if I'm never seeing her again, what does it matter if I tell her off? At least she'll finally fully realize what an asshole she was, and what she threw away.

It's a tough call though. The alternative method (ignoring her, living well, banging hotties) makes a lot of sense and will probably be the most satisfying in the long run, but who knows how long it will take to impact her - not that this should my top priority. The hamster wheel will probably run a lot more if I do ignore her. And maybe telling her off givers HER too much closure. It will just require a lot more patience on my end, because I want to relieve my anger NOW. It's hard to just sit here and focus on life knowing that she doesn't fully understand our conflict and her actions + the other stuff I mentioned in this page of the thread.

Going to have to sleep on it a couple more days. Thanks for adding your two cents!

I mean your goal should be to ignore her, live well and bang hotties no matter what. That's where your life is headed no matter how you handle this situation. By turning the other cheek, you seem to be expecting her to miss you. You're still falling into that trap of trying to get her to want you. And everyone telling you to just "let it go" doesn't seem to grasp just how hard it is to get out of a relationship like this.

If you tell her off, you are signaling to her and yourself that 1) you don't care what she thinks 2) you are not going to put up with being lied to or disrespected and 3) you're cutting off any ties to this girl.

Maybe that's not your style. I don't know. But you seem like a guy who wants to stop putting up with shit from other people and be his own man. Telling her off would be a huge step in that direction.

[EpicBeta]

[/quote]
I mean your goal should be to ignore her, live well and bang hotties no matter what. That's where your life is headed no matter how you handle this situation. By turning the other cheek, you seem to be expecting her to miss you. You're still falling into that trap of trying to get her to want you. And everyone telling you to just "let it go" doesn't seem to grasp just how hard it is to get out of a relationship like this.
[/quote]

Thank you that's a good point. I definitely see where the turning the other cheek is great in many cases. But you're right, in this case it kind of keeps me in her web, especially since we have such a long complicated history. As I said, my attitude and feelings would be much different if she was just someone I was close to for like 2-5 years. The aloof thing would make perfect sense.

Giving this some thought.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I still think the advice I gave earlier in the thread is the best thing to do:

(03-24-2014 05:49 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

Send her a text message saying "Our friendship is over. I don't want to talk about it. I'll greet you if I come across but we are no longer hanging out."

Send the message, then delete her number, block her number, delete all trace of her from your existence, go find a room where you can cry a bit for five, then go out and try and approach chicks, as miserable as you will feel doing this.

You have already lost her, cut her off from your life and go find someone else to have a oneitis about.

[EpicBeta]

(04-21-2014 02:14 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

I still think the advice I gave earlier in the thread is the best thing to do:

(03-24-2014 05:49 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

Send her a text message saying "Our friendship is over. I don't want to talk about it. I'll greet you if I come across but we are no longer hanging out."

Send the message, then delete her number, block her number, delete all trace of her from your existence, go find a room where you can cry a bit for five, then go out and try and approach chicks, as miserable as you will feel doing this.

You have already lost her, cut her off from your life and go find someone else to have a oneitis about.

Thanks ya I was very close to doing that, but I ended up enjoying the blowing her off until she got the hint approach. I could feel the hamster wheel spinning. It was satisfying and I was able to focus on myself, meet other chicks etc. Was fine with letting that continue until she stopped trying to contact all together. But then the email she sent over the weekend made me so fucking irate and I'm all fucked up again emotionally. Damn this woman lol

[samsamsam]

EpicBeta,

No one can hurt your feelings, you choose to be hurt. People do stuff and we choose how we react to it.

Like those videos when some girl gets in the middle of a fight that is none of their business. I generally laugh. Women may watch the same video and gasp and scream about the injustice.

You chose to be hurt, you only are interpreting that she hurt you.

You think justice is to hurt her so your butt hurt self feels better? That you feel better over something in which you created by never speaking up until it was too late and you had developed feelings AND that you chose to hurt over?

You just give her more attention by sending the email, if it gets around then you get to look like a jerk in the same social circle. There are times to tell people off, everyone knows when that works for them.

Go ahead and tell her off, but don't come back here crying about all the damage you did when you did it. And all the results of your choices.

There are some real solid guys on this forum who might give you level headed feedback on what to do. PM them, ask them to have a read and see what they think. There are many guys who could lay down some solid feedback.

But don't be the butt hurt kid, choose from a responsible place. You put yourself in this butt hurt moment.

I am not saying it is easy, but this is a growing opportunity. Let it go.

The fact that you cut her out completely will hurt her if she cared about you at all. And if she doesn't hurt over it then she never cared, sorry to lay it out there.

I will probably comment any more on this thread, my advice will most likely be the same over and over. Unless you reveal new and relevant info.

Good luck!

Edit: Do not walk around with a victim mentality. There are no victims, we are active participants in our lives, even if it is sitting home playing xbox. We choose to be victims to not own the results in our lives. And to avoid the pain. I don't always enjoy owning my fuckups.

[EpicBeta]

(04-21-2014 02:24 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

EpicBeta,

No one can hurt your feelings, you choose to be hurt. People do stuff and we choose how we react to it.

Like those videos when some girl gets in the middle of a fight that is none of their business. I generally laugh. Women may watch the same video and gasp and scream about the injustice.

You chose to be hurt, you only are interpreting that she hurt you.

You think justice is to hurt her so your butt hurt self feels better? That you feel better over something in which you created by never speaking up until it was too late and you had developed feelings AND that you chose to hurt over?

You just give her more attention by sending the email, if it gets around then you get to look like a jerk in the same social circle. There are times to tell people off, everyone knows when that works for them.

Go ahead and tell her off, but don't come back here crying about all the damage you did when you did it. And all the results of your choices.

There are some real solid guys on this forum who might give you level headed feedback on what to do. PM them, ask them to have a read and see what they think. There are many guys who could lay down some solid feedback.

But don't be the butt hurt kid, choose from a responsible place. You put yourself in this butt hurt moment.

I am not saying it is easy, but this is a growing opportunity. Let it go.

The fact that you cut her out completely will hurt her if she cared about you at all. And if she doesn't hurt over it then she never cared, sorry to lay it out there.

I will probably comment any more on this thread, my advice will most likely be the same over and over. Unless you reveal new and relevant info.

Good luck!

Thanks man. I always love your advice/feedback and I take it very seriously. I'll probably do that (and maybe try PMing a few folks too - thanks for the suggestion). I just like getting a few different takes on it as I wrestle with these feelings and finally decide on the best route for me. But I agree with all of that and appreciate the input. Will let you know if there anything changes significantly with this for further examination

Cheers

P.S. I saw your edit note on the your last follow up. Thanks, very true

[amity]

@EpicBeta Hey man, I've had a situation recently (but probably not in as deep as you) with a chick I still have some feelings for her, who was a fuckbuddy a few years ago, and who I foolishly tried to 'LTR/girlfriend up' and the entire thing crashed and burned and she eventually blew me off and I ended up with oneitis for a good while afterwards.
We kind of got back in touch lately, and there was some flirting going on on both sides, but she had an aloofness/indifference at times that really fucking pissed me off, so I called her out on it, in a calm, controlled but firm manner, telling her that I wasn't prepared to stay in touch with someone who displayed such a cold indifference to me at times. She took it on board and since then, the girl really seems to have turned over a new leaf, I'm seeing a warm side to this girl, that I rarely saw before. It's like she respects me for standing up to her and calling her out on her bullshit.
I'm not quite sure how it's going to end, I still like the girl, and I guess you could say we are friends in a sense, but still we have a flirty fun vibe going on, and am pretty confident the re-bang is there if I continue to play my cards right. My current shtick is the cool, confident, witty, knowledgeable older guy who still gives her a slice of warm fuzzy cuddly beta-provider when the situation requires it, and it seems to be rolling quite well at the moment.

I had been tempted, very tempted to do the 'fade out' as one or two of the guys above referred to, and sure that can work, but unless you keep yourself busy and make sure you have enough other interesting and cool people in your life (and some other chicks you're working on), it's a long hard emotional road bro, and it can be done, but it sure as hell ain't easy.
But right now, I'm glad I didn't hit the eject button, cos truth is I like this girl, and I would genuinely miss her if I completely froze her out for all eternity. Now it could come back and bite me in the ass, who knows, but right now it's going fine.
I know it's not the quite same situation as you're in, but I thought it might be helpful to read what's worked (so far anyway) for myself.

[Cr33pin]

OP talks/types like a girl.... or highschooler

[EpicBeta]

(04-21-2014 07:18 PM)amity Wrote:  

@EpicBeta Hey man, I've had a situation recently (but probably not in as deep as you) with a chick I still have some feelings for her, who was a fuckbuddy a few years ago, and who I foolishly tried to 'LTR/girlfriend up' and the entire thing crashed and burned and she eventually blew me off and I ended up with oneitis for a good while afterwards.
We kind of got back in touch lately, and there was some flirting going on on both sides, but she had an aloofness/indifference at times that really fucking pissed me off, so I called her out on it, in a calm, controlled but firm manner, telling her that I wasn't prepared to stay in touch with someone who displayed such a cold indifference to me at times. She took it on board and since then, the girl really seems to have turned over a new leaf, I'm seeing a warm side to this girl, that I rarely saw before. It's like she respects me for standing up to her and calling her out on her bullshit.
I'm not quite sure how it's going to end, I still like the girl, and I guess you could say we are friends in a sense, but still we have a flirty fun vibe going on, and am pretty confident the re-bang is there if I continue to play my cards right. My current shtick is the cool, confident, witty, knowledgeable older guy who still gives her a slice of warm fuzzy cuddly beta-provider when the situation requires it, and it seems to be rolling quite well at the moment.

I had been tempted, very tempted to do the 'fade out' as one or two of the guys above referred to, and sure that can work, but unless you keep yourself busy and make sure you have enough other interesting and cool people in your life (and some other chicks you're working on), it's a long hard emotional road bro, and it can be done, but it sure as hell ain't easy.
But right now, I'm glad I didn't hit the eject button, cos truth is I like this girl, and I would genuinely miss her if I completely froze her out for all eternity. Now it could come back and bite me in the ass, who knows, but right now it's going fine.
I know it's not the quite same situation as you're in, but I thought it might be helpful to read what's worked (so far anyway) for myself.

Thanks a lot for sharing that. It is helpful to hear about others' similar experiences.

[AneroidOcean]

I'd recommend cutting off all contact. If you want to send her one last message, fine, but make it really short and ONLY logistical (like the thomas guy wrote).

Your pain will subside with time. KEEP BUSY, do other things, take this as an opportunity to learn to get through things despite pain as this will NOT be the first time that you experience pain/heartache/trouble in your life.

There will be a time in the future where you will wonder how you ever felt so strongly about someone who didn't really care for you. It will almost be laughable. For now, move towards that point as fast as you can.

[EpicBeta]

Haven't responded. Not planning to at the moment.

But, I thought of one last question about this which is far less irritating. What if I start seeing her hot little friend who's showing interest?

This is a long time friend of the "best friend" so we've been acquainted for a few years now. she always wanted to set us up, but logistics got in the way - opposite schedules, geography etc. Oh and she was in a long term relationship for most of that time.

Anyway, we just reconnected a couple weeks ago and she went with me to a table read (actor stuff - made sure we only had one script copy so we'd have to share hahaha). We had a blast together and this was confirmed by my friend in her cunty email over the weekend. She couldn't come out or come over after the reading, but we've been texting and trying to make plans to meet up (using my new alpha text game - working sooo much better ha).

Gonna try to hook it up this weekend. The thing is, she's seems great; like actual dating material -hot, ethnic, smart, sweet, funny, stylish, incredible ass. Always had a little crush and regretted not hooking up with her. I can definitely see myself wanting to hook up or see her on a regular basis if it goes well.

But that may be tricky because she's one of the best friend's closest girlfriends, even though they rarely get to hang out these days. It would probably work fine to see her for a while, but it wouldn't be long before the subject came up with one of us, and the girl catches on that I'm avoiding our close friend in common.

If I cut my best friend out of my life and end all contact, I wonder how that would play out. I guess I can just see if I do end up wanting to see this girl more, make nice if I have to, just enough to have an understanding, and then avoid avoid avoid as much as I can.

Could get interesting , but right now I'm focused on nailing her and showing her an awesome time. There are a couple other chicks I'm talking to right now who I'm into as well, which is great. But I'm definitely asking for trouble at some point if I pursue the friend of the best friend. Can't not try to bang her either, right?

Might have to hit you guys up if I get in over my head haha. Feel free to let me know if there are any initial thoughts going in; things to be cautious about etc.

Thanks

@Cr33pin not sure why you want to kick a brother while he's down, but that's cool. I'm a good looking funny motherfucker. Get plenty of respect in my circles and plenty of chick attention. Great at talking to them. I just have a habit of choking with 9s/10s, especially when I like them. Fucks up my game, and that's what I'm here working on. I make no apologies. My train wreck days are mostly behind me with the exception of this little crisis. But I'll try to start using more insults If that helps me sound more like a real man and less like a high school girl. Thanks for the feedback! LOL OMG oops

Just effing with you btw no hard feelings.

[samsamsam]

Epicbeta. Are you US based? Just curious.

Regarding cr33's comment. I would have suggested not engaging. there are times on this board someone makes a comment I've just ignored it. I am not saying I am a role model. But you gave him control by honoring the comment. This isn't meant as a shot at cr33. Your posts are long. But you seem sincere and I don't think a troll pays for gold status. Want nothing but the best for you, honestly. But you wrote a long paragraph to respond to a little neg. But we have all been there. And when you are in the shit everything is a bit more painful. We get it. Hang in there. Bang her friend. And post a pic.

[Beyond Borders]

I admit I didn't read a lot of what you wrote, Man. I did peek in and caught the gist of it though.

Yeah, it does seem like this chick has taken some liberties with your emotions and enjoys the validation. She has her own team of hamsters pulling for her here and may not be doing this purposely, but she is doing it.

For instance, you don't write long email letters to people whose feelings you don't reciprocate about the feelings you don't reciprocate. That just drags shit out and makes it worse - it's her own exercise in self-validation.

All that said, you have known each other for a long time. I think you can cut this woman out of your life without making it an act of nuclear war.

In other words, make it temporary. Resist the urge to tell her off. Be civil and recognize that you're just as much at fault for this as she is.

Maybe even send her a brief message about how you just need to be away from her for a while and get "this thing" out of your system - just so she doesn't riddle you with messages "wondering" what's going on and tempting you to reopen the conversation.

Then proceed with your game, fucking other women, getting in shape, etc. Focusing on yourself.

When the feelings pass (and they will), you're back in control of your own emotions and thought processes, and you're getting laid on the regular or in a relationship with someone else, then maybe you can be actual friends and not just having a pretend friendship with someone you're in love with. Might be a few months, might be a year - whatever - but I don't think you have to completely napalm your friend out of your life just because she wasn't into you.

Also, read this book if you haven't already: http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Gu...8&sr=&qid=

I think it'll give you a lot of epiphanies.

(04-22-2014 05:55 AM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

But that may be tricky because she's one of the best friend's closest girlfriends, even though they rarely get to hang out these days. It would probably work fine to see her for a while, but it wouldn't be long before the subject came up with one of us, and the girl catches on that I'm avoiding our close friend in common.

Dating her friends might not be a bad idea. If you actually develop real feelings for her friend, you'll likely get carried away into that and be able to leave all the BS between you two behind with relatively little friction and awkwardness. No avoidance needed.

There is a chance she'll suddenly get weird and have her own little jealous moments (even if it's just the loss of the validation), but if you think she's drama-free enough that might not happen.

Just banging her friends might not be enough though - because you'd still be looking at her. This would probably only work if you were actually into her friend on an emotional level.

I also suggest just being straight up about the whole thing with this other girl if you are seriously dating her (if she doesn't know already, which she probably does). You don't want to leave that little bait lingering out there that gives your "bff" a reason for little hush-hush pointless conversations and messages between you based on this secret thing your new gf doesn't know.

Drama queens eat that shit up, so I'd rob her of that temptation by laying the cards right down on the table.

Just my thoughts.

[EpicBeta]

(04-22-2014 10:10 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Epicbeta. Are you US based? Just curious.

Regarding cr33's comment. I would have suggested not engaging. there are times on this board someone makes a comment I've just ignored it. I am not saying I am a role model. But you gave him control by honoring the comment. This isn't meant as a shot at cr33. Your posts are long. But you seem sincere and I don't think a troll pays for gold status. Want nothing but the best for you, honestly. But you wrote a long paragraph to respond to a little neg. But we have all been there. And when you are in the shit everything is a bit more painful. We get it. Hang in there. Bang her friend. And post a pic.

Hey Sam, ya I live LA, working in production, pursuing my dreams. Originally from the midwest. Are you in the US?

You are totally right about the comment. I wasn't going to respond at all. Didn't bother me whatsoever, but couldn't help teasing back a little bit for fun. Also thought if I let him know I'm not some weirdo, he might offer something a little more constructive. I'm sure he's got some good insight, and I wasn't trying to start any sparring matches I'll ignore stuff like that from now on though and just take the good advice as it comes.

Thanks for your continued support/feedback!

Oh and I'll be sure to let you know what happens with her friend hahaha.

Best, EB