[renotime]

(05-01-2013 05:15 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 02:39 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  

You could probably pick up a place in Spain or Greece for peanuts now. Certainly worth checking out. In Spain they turn a blind eye to people buying with cash they are trying to hide from the taxman. Black money is what they call it.

Is this pure speculation, or have you seen deals? Can you link some up?

Can you elaborate a little?

The housing market is so bad in Spain that you get EU citizenship when you purchase a home for a certain amount.

Some stuff you can get in Spain for under 100k USD. I didn't see anything spectacular.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-prop...&index=180

[Tigre]

(05-01-2013 05:50 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

DickDastardly,

What are your monthly expenses on it? In the US if you are in a condo, you pay HOA fees for the common area stuff.

Same question from me.

This listing at € 89,000 says
Community fees € 380
Property tax € 150

Is that the amount due quarterly? Monthly? Yearly?

[samsamsam]

(05-01-2013 09:49 PM)renotime Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 05:15 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 02:39 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  

You could probably pick up a place in Spain or Greece for peanuts now. Certainly worth checking out. In Spain they turn a blind eye to people buying with cash they are trying to hide from the taxman. Black money is what they call it.

Is this pure speculation, or have you seen deals? Can you link some up?

Can you elaborate a little?

The housing market is so bad in Spain that you get EU citizenship when you purchase a home for a certain amount.

Some stuff you can get in Spain for under 100k USD. I didn't see anything spectacular.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-prop...&index=180

renotime, I did a search and found this link http://www.propertycommunity.com/forum/s...nship.html

But it is more of a permanent residence program, do you have some other information on this?

Thanks, great tip.

[renotime]

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/housing...here/3959/

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/...ouse-spain

Or you could just go visit your local Spanish Embassy.

[thegmanifesto]

(05-01-2013 09:49 PM)renotime Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 05:15 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 02:39 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  

You could probably pick up a place in Spain or Greece for peanuts now. Certainly worth checking out. In Spain they turn a blind eye to people buying with cash they are trying to hide from the taxman. Black money is what they call it.

Is this pure speculation, or have you seen deals? Can you link some up?

Can you elaborate a little?

The housing market is so bad in Spain that you get EU citizenship when you purchase a home for a certain amount.

Some stuff you can get in Spain for under 100k USD. I didn't see anything spectacular.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-prop...&index=180

Thanks.

Google maps straight up sucks when plugging in European addresses.

[DickDastardly]

Delete

[Roustabout]

Here's an article in today's Wall Street Journal on purchasing condo's in Buenos Aires:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424..._mansion_3

[samsamsam]

(05-03-2013 10:29 AM)Roustabout Wrote:  

Here's an article in today's Wall Street Journal on purchasing condo's in Buenos Aires:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424..._mansion_3

Just revisited this thread and looked into the comments on this article. There is a guy named Michael Koh - he was featured in International House Hunters. He had a long response to the WSJ article. Sounds like you need to be a long term holder of the property and be really careful with your paperwork and taxes/fees. And there really is no such thing as a mortgage apparently.

Quote:

Yes, I did sell my old firm back in 2010. But I still own many properties there in Buenos Aires. Like you, I absolutely love the city and very passionate about Argentina. It will always be a very special place to me. A place that I was married, a place where both my kids were born and a place where I have many friends and family living to this day.

I absolutely 100% agree with you that the banking system simply doesn't work. It's a broken system. There is a LOT of red tape, bureaucracy and hassles there. That's why it's so very important to know all the laws, taxes and how everything works there.

You are absolutely correct that you could have many problems if you didn't structure everything properly, pay the appropriate taxes and keep all the documentation necessary to properly exit your investment. I continue to help many non-residents exit their investments in Argentina. (In fact, that's what I've been busy doing the past 2.5 years since I sold my firm).

Argentina is NOT a buy and "flip" type of market. There are too many transactional buy side and sell side fees and taxes. Since this article came out I've been flooded with emails, mostly from amateur investors that are thinking about investing. It was for that reason that I posted on this blog to make it VERY clear that investing in Argentina is NOT for most people.

I actually have been advising people for the past 2 years to wait to buy as prices would come down. I still think it's a bit early to buy again unless you can score a fabulous deal from a motivated seller. And even then, like Katy mentioned in the article, I wouldn't do it unless I could wire directly to the seller to a bank account OUTSIDE of Argentina. Under no circumstances would I send funds to Argentina right now that would flow through the Central Bank of Argentina.

I also think that things will get worse before they get better so it's wise to hold off on buying in Buenos Aires until after the October elections.

But I would have to disagree with those that make blanket statements and say that ALL investments in Argentina don't make sense. The key is to structure everything properly, follow the law and pay the proper taxes. My clients that have done that have not had problems exiting their investments from Argentina. That is the most important thing you have to do in ANY foreign country but especially Argentina.

But I reiterate my point that MOST investors should NOT be investing in Argentina. Especially those with fairly low net worths. There are much safer and better and stable investments out there.

But much like any other investment out there....things run in cycles. And things don't move in straight lines forever. Nothing goes up forever and nothing goes down forever. So the key is to take advantage of the cycles in any country. Especially in Argentina.

But make no mistakes on real estate in Argentina. It WILL come back with the next "boom cycle". Argentina goes through these boom and bust cycles and probably always will until they get ethical, effective and efficient leaders in place.

Real estate and land is just about the only safe investment in Argentina so there will always be strong demand over the long run in these things. Although motivated sellers that are selling are desperate and taking low ball offers, you have the locals that do NOT need to sell either holding out for their prices or taking their properties off the market. That's how it always is.

Remember the locals do NOT hold ANY mortgages so it's not a situation like the USA where you have a "distress" situation and they have a mortgage or leveraged to the hilt. For the most part there is NO leverage so these people can wait it out and wait for the next boom cycle.

Best.

[spalex]

I'm really starting to consider buying a place in Sopot, Poland.

The only problem with Poland is that everyone lives in high rise, not so nice apartment buildings. Its pretty rare to come across a suburban area of houses, which is what i really want.

[hun73r]

I bought a 2 bedroom apartment in Buenos Aires in 2008. It's gone up in value and an agency rents it out all year. Don't regret buying it but it's not exactly easy to sell. Going forward I'll just use money made from US properties to pay the rent for places where I'm staying.

You can get a commercial loan for 4.25% in the US. In my opinion, much better buy a property here vs. paying all cash upfront in another country. Caveat would be unless you are really going to live there for a long time and can get foreclosure type prices.

[jamaicabound]

I've been looking at some properties in the Yucatan west and southeast of like Cancun and Playa. Some towns which are pretty cheap are chelem, campeche, alot of places over there. Playa wouldn't be bad, at least you have good internet connection and a more upscale feel and things from home without being too expensive. I was planning on maybe going away for a year seeing how i can do giving location independence a try write some books, try to make some money online, doing some seo and ppc consulting basically just relaxing, having fun, recharging, doing a bit of online hustling and seeing what comes of it. you can find apartments for like $300 a month which are pretty decent, mcuh cheaper than i would have expected for playa other areas are obviously cheaper. i was thinking about buying a place though, figured maybe id try to build another home on the property, id really like to do a couple shipping container homes if zoning would allow it. i figure i could rent out rooms to traverls, writeres, people just looking to get away. if it takes off maybe try to turn it into a business but just a hustle to start. This is some ways away from becomming a reality but I'm starting to make the kind of money where i could actually make this happen in the next 6 months to a year

[j r]

(03-10-2014 09:11 AM)hun73r Wrote:  

I bought a 2 bedroom apartment in Buenos Aires in 2008. It's gone up in value and an agency rents it out all year. Don't regret buying it but it's not exactly easy to sell. Going forward I'll just use money made from US properties to pay the rent for places where I'm staying.

You can get a commercial loan for 4.25% in the US. In my opinion, much better buy a property here vs. paying all cash upfront in another country. Caveat would be unless you are really going to live there for a long time and can get foreclosure type prices.

This seems like a sweet setup in that you have a place to stay in Argentina that pays for itself.

Would you mind sharing some of the details like what kind of occupancy rate you get, what percentage does the management agency take, your income vs maintainer expenses?

[SpecialEd]

Hun73r, how do you get paid by your tenants in Argentina? Pesos? And im assuming you're not using a local bank account lol.

[hun73r]

Quote:

Hun73r, how do you get paid by your tenants in Argentina? Pesos? And im assuming you're not using a local bank account lol.

I get paid via paypal by the agency. I have a HSBC account I was depositing money into so the property manager woman could take out and pay bills but now I'm using xoom and she's picking it up. I think even with xoom she can only get pesos. if there was a way she could get dollars, that would be great, but I don't see a service that does that. Open to suggestions...

Quote:

This seems like a sweet setup in that you have a place to stay in Argentina that pays for itself.

Would you mind sharing some of the details like what kind of occupancy rate you get, what percentage does the management agency take, your income vs maintainer expenses?

It's pretty much always occupied and they do it month by month. THere may be a week or two it doesn't get rented but they are pretty good at keeping it filled because that's how they get paid. They send me $640 and they collect $1000 (wow just realized how big their cut is

I pay the lady across the hall $300 to do cleaning and pay the bills. So my net is $340/mo ($4080/yr).

It's a sweet setup in that I don't do anything all. I used to rent it myself on CL, vrbo airbnb and an make more money but it's a lot of hassle. But the negatives outweigh the positives and I wouldn't buy RE in a foreign country again. As I mentioned, it's not easy to sell. Argentina can change the laws about foreign owners or really do anything they want. And I had to pay cash for it ($90k) at the time.

In real estate, people talk about 'highest and best use' a lot in regards to buildings (self-explanatory as to what that means). So looking at the highest and best use of that $90k, I don't look at this as a good investment vs what else is out there in terms of passive income.

For example, I bought a multi-family building a couple of years ago for $125k (25% down payment). I raised rents, minor renovations and now the net income is $5k/month ($60k/yr) after expenses. I do have to pay the mortgage out of that so that brings it down to $39k total net plus debt service. But there are significant tax advantages with real estate (mortgage interest write-off, vacations, car expenses and building depreciation) so that ups the true net in the high 40's. Also the tenants are paying off the building so in 8 years that will be a 600k asset they paid off.

So for me, I'd rather have the $90k from the BsAs building and put it down on another US based building and net $3-4k a month from it vs. $340.

[edlefou]

(03-10-2014 04:36 PM)hun73r Wrote:  

For example, I bought a multi-family building a couple of years ago for $125k (25% down payment). I raised rents, minor renovations and now the net income is $5k/month ($60k/yr) after expenses.

Are you sure those numbers are right? How many units are in the building? That's a crazy-high net yield (48%!!). An amazing good gross yield would be 10%, and a good gross yield in the current market would be 5%, just to put it in perspective.

[hun73r]

Yes the numbers are right. 12 units in bldg. Gross income was $5.4k/mo when I took over, it's $8.6k/mo now. The Cash on Cash Return is 31.2% after debt service (doesn't include tax advantages).

I'm not familiar with gross yield. I look at cap rates, noi, etc. The property was about a 13.5% cap rate when I bought it. There are lots of deals like this out there, and if you know construction you could do better.

[ridiculous_nicholas]

(03-10-2014 04:36 PM)hun73r Wrote:  

Quote:

Hun73r, how do you get paid by your tenants in Argentina? Pesos? And im assuming you're not using a local bank account lol.

I get paid via paypal by the agency. I have a HSBC account I was depositing money into so the property manager woman could take out and pay bills but now I'm using xoom and she's picking it up. I think even with xoom she can only get pesos. if there was a way she could get dollars, that would be great, but I don't see a service that does that. Open to suggestions...

Quote:

This seems like a sweet setup in that you have a place to stay in Argentina that pays for itself.

Would you mind sharing some of the details like what kind of occupancy rate you get, what percentage does the management agency take, your income vs maintainer expenses?

It's pretty much always occupied and they do it month by month. THere may be a week or two it doesn't get rented but they are pretty good at keeping it filled because that's how they get paid. They send me $640 and they collect $1000 (wow just realized how big their cut is

I pay the lady across the hall $300 to do cleaning and pay the bills. So my net is $340/mo ($4080/yr).

It's a sweet setup in that I don't do anything all. I used to rent it myself on CL, vrbo airbnb and an make more money but it's a lot of hassle. But the negatives outweigh the positives and I wouldn't buy RE in a foreign country again. As I mentioned, it's not easy to sell. Argentina can change the laws about foreign owners or really do anything they want. And I had to pay cash for it ($90k) at the time.

In real estate, people talk about 'highest and best use' a lot in regards to buildings (self-explanatory as to what that means). So looking at the highest and best use of that $90k, I don't look at this as a good investment vs what else is out there in terms of passive income.

For example, I bought a multi-family building a couple of years ago for $125k (25% down payment). I raised rents, minor renovations and now the net income is $5k/month ($60k/yr) after expenses. I do have to pay the mortgage out of that so that brings it down to $39k total net plus debt service. But there are significant tax advantages with real estate (mortgage interest write-off, vacations, car expenses and building depreciation) so that ups the true net in the high 40's. Also the tenants are paying off the building so in 8 years that will be a 600k asset they paid off.

So for me, I'd rather have the $90k from the BsAs building and put it down on another US based building and net $3-4k a month from it vs. $340.

Thanks for detailing that! So if you don't mind me asking, what made you purchase the property to begin with if the ROI is so low? Did you think your return would be higher or were you spending a lot of time down there? What were your motivating factors? Also, with the company running everything do you still have any other headaches?

[MrRemi]

(05-01-2013 05:21 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

I own a 2(3 ROOM)bedroom in Odessa,Ukraine. I bought for 34k in 2003. Before the crash it was worth 120k. Now 50-60K. i would wait to see whats going on in the market.When interest rates move up I see home values dropping again.

Do you still own it? I am interested in buying a place in Kiev. Anyone else experience with buying in Ukraine?

[Going strong]

(10-03-2016 02:14 AM)MrRemi Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 05:21 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

I own a 2(3 ROOM)bedroom in Odessa,Ukraine. I bought for 34k in 2003. Before the crash it was worth 120k. Now 50-60K. i would wait to see whats going on in the market.When interest rates move up I see home values dropping again.

Do you still own it? I am interested in buying a place in Kiev. Anyone else experience with buying in Ukraine?

Send me a PM if you want, a friend of mine has experience in this field, in Ukraine...

[Beirut]

Hun73r is your post serious? Am i misunderstanding something?

The rent is 1640 and the property manager gets 1000 and you 640?

Dude their cut should be around 10% maximum.

Besides if its rented out why are you paying a cleaning lady 300 dollars? Cleaning fees would be on you (or manager depending on your arrangement) when renters switch, which at maximum would be monthly maybe. So a one day cleaning fee per month maximum which certainly shouldnt be 300.


I think i missed something or youre getting royally ripped off.

[Australia Sucks]

Beirut, I am just curious what is the property market in Lebanon like for foreign investors now?

[worldtraveler3]

You are getting 340 usd for 90k investment? Kidding me. Wait that's about right figure.1600 gross rent is very very good for Argentina.

[RatInTheWoods]

Condo In Thailand $80K

10% rental returns or I can live there.

Small running costs for admin and strata fees etc.

Capital gains pretty steady in Phuket.

Beach food and pussy out the door.

[worldtraveler3]

Where did you get your 10% yield in Phuket from? I assume you mean gross yield and prob not using agents or management people.

[mammal]

If you plan tolive there fulltime or several months a year it makes sense. Otherwise, being abroad only complicates the problems you may face with owning a second home in a faraway part of the US. Dealing with tenants, repairs, maintenance, squatters, vandalism are all problematic from a long distance. Speaking of squatters, I know someone who owns an apartment but the legal environment in that country is such that it has been occupied by squatters for decades and there is no way to get them out.