[Thomas Jackson]

Any statistics on the % of women who remain a virgin by age? I certainly don't know any over the age of 25. Honestly only knew a handful even in college (and most of those were gone by the end of college). I don't know many highly religious types though.

[redbeard]

(12-31-2018 12:16 PM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

Any statistics on the % of women who remain a virgin by age? I certainly don't know any over the age of 25. Honestly only knew a handful even in college (and most of those were gone by the end of college). I don't know many highly religious types though.

Source: Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex and Marital Stability

[Aurini]

(12-30-2018 10:35 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 10:27 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Women will cuck men regardless of whether they are virgins or not. I’m concerned you’re not understanding AWALT and it’s meaning. All Women Are Like That. All women behave the same.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You're basically saying that my wife, my sister, my mother, and every woman I know personally (in addition to the wives and mothers of every other man on this forum) are "like that" (i.e. degenerate sluts). I think a lot of people here would not appreciate that. A lot of us have women in our lives who we consider to be loved ones and/or close family members, and who we don't consider to be degenerate sluts at all.

There are only two types of women in the world. Those who are Like That... and those who are Like That, but know it, and try and be decent human beings anyway.

The difference between a Saint and a sinner isn't that the Saint isn't tempted; it's that the Saint overcomes temptation. All women have the temptation inside of them to be solipsistic, monkey-branching, cuckolding sluts. In any marriage, there's going to be a day where you're weak - you got fired by your boss, you're down with an illness, or maybe your dog just died - during that moment you aren't going to be "Alpha" regardless of how virginal she is.

Can you love her even though she is both Madonna and Whore?

Can she love you even though you are both Hero and Coward?

Those are the questions that matter.

[Cobra]

(12-31-2018 12:59 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 12:16 PM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

Any statistics on the % of women who remain a virgin by age? I certainly don't know any over the age of 25. Honestly only knew a handful even in college (and most of those were gone by the end of college). I don't know many highly religious types though.

Source: Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex and Marital Stability

I can't help but think that there may be bias in these studies. I mean, women in the 70s (I would think) were less likely to report that they had 10+ partners than they are today. Culture has changed immensely and today, we don't shame women for being uber sluts! So the reality may be at least marginally closer.

[Vladimir Poontang]

Most people are strongly prone to seeing things based on their own experience. Many MGTOWs will swear up and down that all, all, all women are a certain way. Many that have been to different countries will say that women from this country are like this, and women from that country are like that. People don't easily change their minds. I see data sheets here where one person will say that girls from whatever country are a certain way, and then someone will come along and say that's all wrong you must be crazy. It's fascinating how reality can look so different to one person compared to the next.

With that in mind, the logical thing to say is that in this world there is an abundance of everything. There are more than enough whores to convince someone that they're all whores, and more than enough good girls to convince someone else that good girls can easily be found. It doesn't take much to swing from one potential opinion to another, very different one. And people don't like to be confused or conflicted, because what are you supposed to think when things aren't simple any more? And so they magically end up only seeing what they want to see. It's too difficult to see nuances. So again I say that the logical conclusion is that there's enough of everything to convince someone of anything, depending on what they want to see or what they've become used to thinking.

Is the Philippines full of good girls? Yes. Is it full of whores? Yes. Is it full of gold diggers? Yes. Yes to everything. Choose carefully from the menu. It's all there, and it will never be "out of stock sir".

Is it possible to find a decent girl who will stay that way? Yes. They're everywhere. In some places far more than in others for sure, but they exist in abundance among the 3,500,000,000 females on the planet. You just have to tune into the frequency that allows you to see them, and you have to be the type of person that they're drawn to (it works both ways). And you have to keep your eyes open for the signs, and you have to be totally honest with yourself about what you're seeing.

[Hypugamy]

(12-31-2018 02:12 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

Most people are strongly prone to seeing things based on their own experience. Many MGTOWs will swear up and down that all, all, all women are a certain way. Many that have been to different countries will say that women from this country are like this, and women from that country are like that. People don't easily change their minds. I see data sheets here where one person will say that girls from whatever country are a certain way, and then someone will come along and say that's all wrong you must be crazy. It's fascinating how reality can look so different to one person compared to the next.

With that in mind, the logical thing to say is that in this world there is an abundance of everything. There are more than enough whores to convince someone that they're all whores, and more than enough good girls to convince someone else that good girls can easily be found. It doesn't take much to swing from one potential opinion to another, very different one. And people don't like to be confused or conflicted, because what are you supposed to think when things aren't simple any more? And so they magically end up only seeing what they want to see. It's too difficult to see nuances. So again I say that the logical conclusion is that there's enough of everything to convince someone of anything, depending on what they want to see or what they've become used to thinking.

Is the Philippines full of good girls? Yes. Is it full of whores? Yes. Is it full of gold diggers? Yes. Yes to everything. Choose carefully from the menu. It's all there, and it will never be "out of stock sir".

Is it possible to find a decent girl who will stay that way? Yes. They're everywhere. In some places far more than in others for sure, but they exist in abundance among the 3,500,000,000 females on the planet. You just have to tune into the frequency that allows you to see them, and you have to be the type of person that they're drawn to (it works both ways). And you have to keep your eyes open for the signs, and you have to be totally honest with yourself about what you're seeing.

Ok, this sounds great but doesn't explain things. Why is there no book called "Frequency: How to See, Attract, and Date Decent Women"?

[ThriceLazarus]

@Hypugamy

If I may, you may want to look into the reticular activating system. This brain structure and it’s corresponding neurochemistry seems to explain the law of attraction - it creates a filter through which sense information is interpreted. At the same time it constantly seeks to refine that filter. This generally manifests as reinforcement of your established beliefs.

This structure is why you snap to attention when you hear your name in a crowd even though moments before your brain blocked out all the side-chatter. It’s what gives numerology it’s power, or why you start noticing just how many Civics are on the road after you drove off the lot in one.

[Captainstabbin]

She's got contact information on her IG account. Is Tagthesponsor still active?


Mommy, I look like a whore just like you!

[Shemp]

>>Go for the 28yo just above average lookin one that rode 340 cocks but is still fertile for 5 or so years. Start a family man

Good advice (assuming it's directed at Roosh), though I see no reason to go for merely "above average" in this case. Go for the beautiful escort who's wants to retire. You've been a player, you should expect an equal as a wife. Just make sure (a) the two of you really get along and see eye to eye on child rearing issues, (b) you arrange things so that you can cut off the flow of material benefits at any time if she misbehaves. Marriage in the west violates point two, because of community property, alimony and child support in event of divorce.

BTW I actually had several ex-escorts as girlfriends back when I was younger and going after cougars. Contrary to Spaniard88's concerns, they don't compare the way he suggests. You do have to be quality in her eyes, but a woman with a notch count of 1000+ knows every man is deeply flawed at heart and is very forgiving in many ways (not forgiving about failures in bed, however, one of these ex-escorts nearly ripped me a new one when I had whisky dick once and she was horny). Wouldn't marry them, but then I wouldn't marry a virgin either.

@Rob Banks: I hope things work out with you and your wife, because if not, I hate to think of the meltdown you'll have if you ever get cucked or even just divorced by surprise. You've put yourself in a very vulnerable position. Not very wise.

[LexisNexis]

This is perhaps the one area where being an Indian Male in an arranged marriage is the best thing.

[Sgt Donger]

Quote:

Go for the 28yo just above average lookin one that rode 340 cocks

[EndsExpect]

(12-31-2018 02:01 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

I think it has its basis in biology, like women's preference for height. The reason I think this is because men's preference for virgins seems to cross cultural and religious lines, just like women's preference for height (and resources/money, for that matter).
The question is why. It's probably a protective measure on the part of men to assure a better life for the offspring. Women who have been with a lot of men are more likely to be a flight risk and not stick around, therefore damaging the lives of the kids.
Statistics on divorce bear this out. The more partners a woman has, the more likely divorce is. Below are some sources for this info. Even the commies at the Atlantic seem to agree.
Right. Also, if you marry a virgin, you'll always be the best sex she's ever had, the most handsome man she's ever been with. With a low N count girl, depending on your SMV, you can still be #1.
Let's say she's had 10 to 20 sexual partners or more. Well, one dude was more adventurous than you, another was taller, another was smarter, another had a bigger dick, another had a smaller, more comfortable dick that didn't require as much lube, another had a bigger wallet, another was more serious, another was more nonchalant, another had better hair, another was more boyish-looking, another was more manly-looking, another was more well-spoken, another was more the silent type, another had a better ass, another liked to go down on her for hours, another had better legs, another was more sociable, another had better arms, another had a better smile, another had better teeth, another had nicer eyes, another had a better jaw, another was more into the things she's into, another went along with her family more, another stood up to her family more, another was better at sex, etc. It never ends, the point is you'll always come up short in one area or another.
With a virgin, you are always #1 in every single sphere.
Why be #2, #3, #4, #10, #20, #30, #40 in the various spheres she'll be assessing you by. So that you have the privilege of having to try harder every single day to be her very own perfect man that no one can be?
It's absurd. F*** that noise.
Improve yourself, by all means, but get a low N count girl and make your life less of a headache, being with a woman and raising a family is a challenge in and of itself without having 40 other dicks she's had close and personal experience with cluttering up her mindspace.
You've got to be a masochist to be into that.
"Just be better than every guy at everything and you'll be fine." Sounds good, dude, have at it, take the high N count girl, be my guest, I'm not interested in that noise.
Also, keep in mind that being "better than every dude at everything" is impossible. Why? Because let's say you're more distant than every other dude she's been with, so she's into that about you. Well on Monday she wants a caring and kind dude. Guess what, Bob, contestant #17, was better than you at that. Time for texting time with Bob. Let's say you spend a lot of time every day at the gym. Well on Tuesday she wants someone that isn't away from her so much. Ed, contestant # 10, was into staying home and Netflixing with her and smoking joints. Time for Facebook time with Ed. Then it's Wednesday and she wants someone that's into being a foodie. But you've got your gym diet/regimen to maintain. Oh, what about Johnny, contestant #13? Time for Snapchat time with Johnny.
You could be a well off businessman with game and there will still be something her drug dealing ex can give her that you can't. Or vice versa, you could be a drug dealing guy with game and there will still be something her businessman ex can give her that you can't.
The point is there's no way to be the best man at everything, and even if there was a way to be the best at everything, you still couldn't be that because "the best" is fluid. Women are crazy enough to want completely opposing values in the same guy on different days of the week.
If you want to be with a woman that's easy to be around, aim for one with the lowest N count you can get and that has the happy gene.

This is very deep, and something most intelligent men in the west are trying to come to terms with.

I don't like the idea that we should all fear hypergamy. I have set my frame such that I do not care what a particular woman thinks about me. I don't care if she dated some better lovers, or wealthier men. I don't care because it's not my job to satisfy her.... instead it's her job to satisfy me. There is no woman who isn't replaceable in my life, so I have no fear.

[rpg]

I get the vibe this woman is making bank doing high end escort work.

[budoslavic]

Back in 2013, I ended a long term relationship with my ex-GF/Fiancée from Ukraine. She slept with another foreign guy and got *whoops* pregnant. Last I heard, she is now a 34 year old single mom raising her daughter and still living with her parents. This means the guy who pumped his seed into my ex didn't want anything to do with his kid.

The whole experience opened my eyes because my white knight attitude used to be "Not All Women Are Like That". In reality, "All Women Are Like That".

Another example. A few years ago, a fellow martial arts practitioner/friend invited me and my instructor to stay at his home during seminars weekend in another state. His wife - who was pretty good looking and slim in her 30's - was setting up the bed sheets and everything for us in the basement. As she went upstairs, my instructor and I were checking out her ass.

He commented: "WOW! She lost a lot of weight! She looks good!".
I replied: "Really? I don't think she lost weight for her husband. I think she's having an affair and banging another guy on the side."

Later that year, my instructor said "You were right!" when he found out that our friend came home early from work one day and caught his wife fucking her new lover in his own bed. 16 years of marriage went down the drain...*poof!*. Sadly, it affected and impacted their 3 children.

This is the harsh reality we live in.

Edit. Totally forgot one more thing about my friend's ex-wife. She started getting tattoos as well. In her 30's! That's another sign to watch out for when a woman's behavior change.

[PapayaTapper]

(12-31-2018 07:07 PM)Shemp Wrote:  

>>Go for the 28yo just above average lookin one that rode 340 cocks but is still fertile for 5 or so years. Start a family man

Good advice (assuming it's directed at Roosh), though I see no reason to go for merely "above average" in this case. Go for the beautiful escort who's wants to retire. You've been a player, you should expect an equal as a wife. Just make sure (a) the two of you really get along and see eye to eye on child rearing issues, (b) you arrange things so that you can cut off the flow of material benefits at any time if she misbehaves. Marriage in the west violates point two, because of community property, alimony and child support in event of divorce.

BTW I actually had several ex-escorts as girlfriends back when I was younger and going after cougars. Contrary to Spaniard88's concerns, they don't compare the way he suggests. You do have to be quality in her eyes, but a woman with a notch count of 1000+ knows every man is deeply flawed at heart and is very forgiving in many ways (not forgiving about failures in bed, however, one of these ex-escorts nearly ripped me a new one when I had whisky dick once and she was horny). Wouldn't marry them, but then I wouldn't marry a virgin either.

@Rob Banks: I hope things work out with you and your wife, because if not, I hate to think of the meltdown you'll have if you ever get cucked or even just divorced by surprise. You've put yourself in a very vulnerable position. Not very wise.

Jean Valjean... is that you?

[iop890]

The absolute state of new members around here.

[HangaRoa]

Well said.

[MongolianAbroad]

(12-31-2018 08:27 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 02:01 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

The point is there's no way to be the best man at everything, and even if there was a way to be the best at everything, you still couldn't be that because "the best" is fluid. Women are crazy enough to want completely opposing values in the same guy on different days of the week.

If you want to be with a woman that's easy to be around, aim for one with the lowest N count you can get and that has the happy gene.

This is very deep, and something most intelligent men in the west are trying to come to terms with.

I don't like the idea that we should all fear hypergamy. I have set my frame such that I do not care what a particular woman thinks about me. I don't care if she dated some better lovers, or wealthier men. I don't care because it's not my job to satisfy her.... instead it's her job to satisfy me. There is no woman who isn't replaceable in my life, so I have no fear.

Right, I don't fear it either, and I don't aim to please at all, that's her job.

That said, our mental states, as in, whether we fear it or not, are not determinative towards whether she cleans out our bank accounts and/or deprives us of access to our assets and our children. That's where all these things come into play.

For folks not looking into marriage, all these considerations seem to be theoretical, however, that's an extremely dangerous mindset, and the reason is because guys marry girls they sleep with. So if guys are sleeping with sluts, they'll more than likely marry one of them.

The guy that sleeps with sluts but then changes gears completely for marriage is extremely rare nowadays. The vast majority of guys simply sleep with sluts on the basis of "It's ok that she's a slut, I'm just sleeping with her," and then go on to get married and move into "it's 2018 for fuck's sake" mode, and then enter a life where they have lost all leverage and are beholden to the whims of a slut. She literally has them by the balls, if she even allows them to retain their balls.

That's the reality facing the majority of American males that are getting some action, circa 2018.

[Easy_C]

(12-31-2018 02:12 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

Most people are strongly prone to seeing things based on their own experience. Many MGTOWs will swear up and down that all, all, all women are a certain way. Many that have been to different countries will say that women from this country are like this, and women from that country are like that. People don't easily change their minds. I see data sheets here where one person will say that girls from whatever country are a certain way, and then someone will come along and say that's all wrong you must be crazy. It's fascinating how reality can look so different to one person compared to the next.

Is it possible to find a decent girl who will stay that way? Yes. They're everywhere. In some places far more than in others for sure, but they exist in abundance among the 3,500,000,000 females on the planet. You just have to tune into the frequency that allows you to see them, and you have to be the type of person that they're drawn to (it works both ways).

Well said.

Ultimately your, mine, or anyone else's one "story" doesn't prove jack shit.


I've got examples and counterexamples of literally everything. I know guys who have great marriages with Asian/EE women, and the opposite. Guys with great American women, and the opposite. Urban/Rural, Religious/Not, Anglo/Not, you name it there's an example out there.

The point is literally anything is POSSIBLE so it is not ever safe to make a conclusion based on associative thinking. It needs to be based on observation of the individual person's priorities and behavior.


In my own life I've only seen one indicator that doesn't have any exceptions: I have never seen any girl who is "like that" ( by which I mean enough to where it is noticeable part of her personality) that approved of the use of contraception. Without exception every girl I've met who fully agreed with Catholic teaching that contraception is evil and should never be used was one who is at least marriageable.

[Neo]

(12-31-2018 02:12 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

Most people are strongly prone to seeing things based on their own experience.

Is it possible to find a decent girl who will stay that way? Yes. They're everywhere. In some places far more than in others for sure, but they exist in abundance among the 3,500,000,000 females on the planet. You just have to tune into the frequency that allows you to see them, and you have to be the type of person that they're drawn to (it works both ways). And you have to keep your eyes open for the signs, and you have to be totally honest with yourself about what you're seeing.

I agree with this. The issue with having a lot of experience in the game is that you become blind to who would be a good long term partner. Not intellectually, you know what type of woman to look for, but game is deeply ingrained where it's hard to pull off successfully.

Your mind, thought patterns, body language, and entire identity change in such subtle ways that you aren't even aware of the energy you're giving off. Years ago you could have been that guy suited for long term relationships or marriage, but no longer.

Even when you do get into one you sabatoge it somehow in ways you don't even understand.

The other thing is that women adapt to your image. They are more influenced in that regard. If you come off as the short term fun guy, she will act like the short term fun girl. Even married and attached women do this. Will they take the bait and follow through? Some yes, some no. If their ideal man came along a 10 in their eyes, most would.

I don't know the solution. I think decent women can be found but the problem is you need to observe them over a long period of time to really know. In the West their numbers are smaller.

How good is she at resisting temptation and delaying gratification? How much is she influenced by society?

These are things that you can only learn about someone after knowing them a while.

The other part is changing yourself and that's a tough one, at least for me.

[questor70]

(12-31-2018 09:10 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 07:07 PM)Shemp Wrote:  

>>Go for the 28yo just above average lookin one that rode 340 cocks but is still fertile for 5 or so years. Start a family man

Jean Valjean... is that you?

I take it that post is why he got the ban-hammer?

[Vladimir Poontang]

In some ways I think too much focus on game (aka learning how to attract a woman...any damn woman!) turns you into the kind of person who can't see or deserve what you'll ultimately want, and what deep down you've always wanted. All of this energy that people put into game and self improvement, it's unnatural, and there's something wrong with a civilization that would make you feel like you need it. In parts of the world where reasonably decent quality females are in abundance, males just get on with it. In the west, it's not good enough to be normal, you have to be extraordinary or be really good at giving that impression. I'm not interested in game. I know enough. And I've realized that I always did.

When cooking a meal, the first thing you have to do is pick fresh ingredients. Too many people are adding herbs and spices to rotten ingredients.

[Transsimian]

(12-31-2018 12:59 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

And how many of them are non-Asexual, non-ugly, non-Muslims?

[PharaohRa]

This is a sad story, to see a man's dreams turn to dust because his woman stray. In this case, he should have followed the principles of White Sharia and keep his wife on a short leash. That and he should have waited until he is at least 30 years old to marry.

[EndsExpect]

(12-31-2018 10:33 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Right, I don't fear it either, and I don't aim to please at all, that's her job.
That said, our mental states, as in, whether we fear it or not, are not determinative towards whether she cleans out our bank accounts and/or deprives us of access to our assets and our children. That's where all these things come into play.
For folks not looking into marriage, all these considerations seem to be theoretical, however, that's an extremely dangerous mindset, and the reason is because guys marry girls they sleep with. So if guys are sleeping with sluts, they'll more than likely marry one of them.
The guy that sleeps with sluts but then changes gears completely for marriage is extremely rare nowadays. The vast majority of guys simply sleep with sluts on the basis of "It's ok that she's a slut, I'm just sleeping with her," and then go on to get married and move into "it's 2018 for fuck's sake" mode, and then enter a life where they have lost all leverage and are beholden to the whims of a slut. She literally has them by the balls, if she even allows them to retain their balls.
That's the reality facing the majority of American males that are getting some action, circa 2018.

If you are wife hunting where you are then I have a pretty good idea you "get it".

I believe that what you are saying about the average man is true. They have bought into the idea that how slutty a woman acts doesn't matter. I see them get burned all the time by this idea and they never change their minds. The modern American man has been mentally enslaved and made docile.

Family courts do suck. I think instead of debating the virtues of virgins vs. women with a 1-3 notch count.... Perhaps we would be better served focusing our discussion on how to win with emphasis in family court situations.

I believe only a fool marries any woman expecting her to remain faithful and loyal. If you think marrying a virgin makes your odds better... that's great, but we should always have exit plans prepared.