[Aurini]

A lot of guys getting heated in this conversation. Are you guys angry because you disagree with the strategy being promoted? Or are you angry with the state of the world, and you're lashing out at those who are trying to survive it?

[RDF]

(12-30-2018 04:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

For me, it is just a visceral reaction I have. I would not be able to imagine my wife or girlfriend taking another man's dick and just be okay with it.

That is your issue. If you feel that way, that's fine. You found a virgin wife and seem happy. That's great. But just because you have this reaction doesn't mean that everybody does, or that it is a healthy, normal male reaction.

(12-30-2018 04:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

Additionally, I don't think that just because a girl has never been "tempted" (i.e. exposed to the degenerate lifestyle) necessarily means that she will eventually get exposed to it and become a slut. In fact, I think if a girl has never been exposed to degeneracy in her life (i.e. never had to "resist temptation" before), it might just be because her father did a good job sheltering her and making sure she never had to face situations like that.

If that is indeed the case, how do you plan to shelter her from the degeneracy of the modern world now that she's out of her father's household? Move to a small town, have her pump out 3 kids, and only let her socialize at church and at the local grocery store? Make sure she doesn't have a smartphone, internet access or TV? Because if she's got an iPhone, one click onto Yahoo and she will be bombarded with stories from Cosmo about how a woman is more empowered if she fucks more men.

For better or worse, it is 2018. Short of doing what I just described, you will never be able to shelter her completely from the society in which she lives. Even what I described might not be enough in the United States. Maybe it will work temporarily in another country, but feminism and "women empowerment" is spreading quickly. You'll be in a race against the clock.

A good woman today is one who is well aware of temptations but has willingly chosen to not take active part. If you think you can shelter a grown woman completely from anything "degenerate", you are delusional.

[PetiteMinded]

(12-29-2018 10:57 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

The biggest challenge for men who choose to marry isn't in the choice of the woman, it's the influence that a corrupt society has on the woman.

(12-30-2018 06:46 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

A lot of guys getting heated in this conversation. Are you guys angry because you disagree with the strategy being promoted? Or are you angry with the state of the world, and you're lashing out at those who are trying to survive it?

Both. I gave the solution before and got called a beta cuck. You lot don't want to move on

[Heuristics]

(12-30-2018 06:46 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

A lot of guys getting heated in this conversation. Are you guys angry because you disagree with the strategy being promoted? Or are you angry with the state of the world, and you're lashing out at those who are trying to survive it?

I think men are being given a bad sale of goods if they think the solution to the modern world is a virgin wife. You do not live in a vacuum and everything is interconnected. First, there are not enough of these women, even for game aware men the competition is stiff. A lot of guys are older, how many virgins are going to go for the dude if there is a ten year age gap and he doesn't go to her church. There is a Christian chad her own age, at her church or in her social circle. Second, these women still cheat. Religiosity may temper these tendencies, but really, how many of women are just situational virgins? In other words women that haven't gotten to a big city yet, haven't yet met bad friends, or started to engage in feminist drug/alcohol/hookup slut culture. The elites are creating new propaganda 24/7 that will corrupt her; she is always susceptible to degenerate societal influences. She is also going to lust for other men, because women do this too. Maybe she'll act on it, maybe she won't. Who in modern society has strong enough frame to maintain a marriage with a virgin woman other than cult leaders and Mormons? AWALT: all women are capable of cheating, all women are hypergamous, and most importantly all women crave security and male wealth.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 06:18 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

We're getting to the heart of an interesting meta-debate that has being going on in the PUA community, traditionalist/ conservative communities, and civilization for thousands of years. There is likely no easy answer, and the debate will continue.

The Maddona/Whore complex affects too many man-- many men that are otherwise highly rational thinkers who instead of resorting to cultural programming use solid evidence and observation to form their opinions. Why doesn’t it happen with this issue? Probably because men are resorting to their feelings and biases instead of evidence and knowledge of human nature.

What exactly are you referring to when you say "Madonna/Whore complex"?

Simply wanting a virgin wife (and seeing non-virgins as "whores" who would not consider marrying) does not constitute a madonna/whore complex. A "madonna/whore complex" is when a man is only attracted to women who he considers "whores" and is not able to get aroused by "good girls" who he respects.

(12-30-2018 06:18 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Without going too deeply there are several characteristics of men and women that are obvious and can be backed up by solid evidence: a) women have less sexual drive then men, b) infidelity has always been an issue even in conservative societies, the reason you don't hear about it is because it was taboo to talk about. It still happened. c) instant gratification has permeated the lifestyles/ value systems of both men and women… Ask yourself how ok you are with pumping and dumping. Why is that? Do you bear some responsibility for your behavior? Of course you do, but in many ways you are only as good as your programming. If your programming is bad, you should get better programming. You should make yourself a stand up man, rather than following a corrupted crowd.

Men have always been down to pump and dump. It was women who did not allow this in the past. It is not a man's fault that a woman allows him to pump and dump her. You (as a man) are not "ruining" this woman for her future husband. If she is allowing herself to be pumped and dumped by you, you probably are not the first nor the last man she will allow to do this.

I know a lot of guys here have solid game and what not, but if a truly good girl (not that there are many of those left in the West) is determined to save herself for marriage, or to not cheat on her husband, she simply won't give up the ass no matter how good your game is.

(12-30-2018 06:18 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

While more women in the past were indeed virgins, we had more community-oriented societies, both men and women were married younger, there was less tolerance of degeneracy, and people didn’t live as long.

This is actually a very misleading statistic. When you were taught in history class that people in the past did not live as long, and that the average human lifespan in the middle ages was under under 50 years, these numbers averaged in all infant deaths, which was close to half of all people. If you have two kids and one dies when he is a baby and the other dies at 90, then the average lifespan of your children would be 45 yerars. However, that statistic is obviously misleading.

(12-30-2018 06:18 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

This was a time before women were in the workforce, and it was a time when many men died in wars or in hard industrial jobs.

If a woman is not in Utah, an Amish farm, or Saudi Arabia, there is really little hope of her engaging in a non-promiscuous lifestyle at some point, virgin (currently) or not. Society will tempt women, and that’s something we’re going to have to live with. There is little difference from a virgin who has not yet been exposed to corruption, but who will be, and a woman who participated ever so slightly in modern society butt then turned away from its less desirable parts. The virgin, and the low notch count conservative girl will be in the same place at some point in their lives.

Actually, there is a big difference. The important thing is a girl's actions (moreso than her intentions or thoughts). If a girl is physically a virgin, then there is a big difference between her and a woman who is not.

Also, if you manage to wife up a woman while she is still a virgin, then there is less of a chance she will fall into society's corruption when she gets exposed to it. If she is not a virgin and has already had premarital sex, then she already has fallen into society's corruption.

(12-30-2018 06:18 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Most men can’t handle a virgin because they have weak frames and probably have poor moral character that prevents them from seeing the long-term picture. Men want it both ways, but life is full of tradeoffs—any non-delusional self-aware person will tell you that.

What do you mean men want it "both ways"? I assume you mean that men want to fuck around and have casual sex when they're young, and then marry a virgin when they get older.

I get what you're saying, but unfortunately, if one man by himself decides not to pump and dump chicks, he will not be able to fix society by himself. Those chicks will simply get pumped and dumped by other guys. If you can't change the way modern women are, why not get in on the action and at least get what you can out of a bad situation?

If you do this as a young man, and then later decide that you want a family and want a virgin, that is fine. There is no obligation that you accept promiscuous women just because you were a promiscuous man yourself. This is not a double standard. It's two different standards. Men can have tons of casual sex and still be marriage-worthy partners (as long as they have money, status, etc.), but for women, it is not the same. If you were a ladies man in your youth, you should not be punished for this by being forced into accepting a slut as a wife.

This is basically red-pill theory 101.

(12-30-2018 06:18 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Ultimately I prefer dealing with known variables rather than taking a gamble on a virgin...

Huh? So you would rather take a known whore than take a "chance" on a virgin (out of fear that she might become a whore)?

This makes no sense whatsoever.

(12-30-2018 06:18 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

...who’s future is very uncertain given the direction society is heading, and also because anything can happen. I still hold up the virgin as an ideal, but we live in the real world, and I can’t control to a high degree the conditions around me. Short of having a compound in Utah and converting to Mormonism, there is little I can do.

With globalization however, men have more choices than ever, and probably more choices than women. This is simply because men take more risks than women. It’s in our DNA, and if you are unsatisfied with quality of women you’re dealing with, notch counts, you can make changes. Some of which are easy, some of which are hard.

What if men overcame their thirst, and instead of banging sloots, strengthened society with their achievements and character and THOT patrolled all the hoes, creating their own families rather than turning to base urges? Sure maybe it’s utopian thinking, but I have hope.

Men are simply reacting and adjusting to what's out there. If all that is out there is "sloots", then men will bang them. A few centuries ago, when there were hardly any "sloots" and most women wanted to get married and beome mothers, men got married relatively young, didn't bang "sloots" or "THOTs," and focused their lives on building society and protecting their families.

However, you're simply not going to change human nature. As long as the
West is full of sluts and feminism is running rampant, men are not simply going to change and become near-celibate in hopes that this will change society for the better. This is most certainly utopian thinking.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 06:54 PM)RDF Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 04:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

For me, it is just a visceral reaction I have. I would not be able to imagine my wife or girlfriend taking another man's dick and just be okay with it.

That is your issue. If you feel that way, that's fine. You found a virgin wife and seem happy. That's great. But just because you have this reaction doesn't mean that everybody does, or that it is a healthy, normal male reaction.

Actually, it is a healthy, normal male reaction.

I would love to take a poll of all the married guys in the forum. How many of you would have a problem with the thought of your wife taking dick from some other guy?

Throughout human history, men have almost always preferred virgins, and have not been okay with the idea of their wives taking dick from other men.

Are you really trying to tell me that having a visceral aversion to cuckoldry is not a "healthy, normal male reaction?"

(12-30-2018 06:54 PM)RDF Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 04:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

Additionally, I don't think that just because a girl has never been "tempted" (i.e. exposed to the degenerate lifestyle) necessarily means that she will eventually get exposed to it and become a slut. In fact, I think if a girl has never been exposed to degeneracy in her life (i.e. never had to "resist temptation" before), it might just be because her father did a good job sheltering her and making sure she never had to face situations like that.

If that is indeed the case, how do you plan to shelter her from the degeneracy of the modern world now that she's out of her father's household? Move to a small town, have her pump out 3 kids, and only let her socialize at church and at the local grocery store? Make sure she doesn't have a smartphone, internet access or TV? Because if she's got an iPhone, one click onto Yahoo and she will be bombarded with stories from Cosmo about how a woman is more empowered if she fucks more men.

For better or worse, it is 2018. Short of doing what I just described, you will never be able to shelter her completely from the society in which she lives. Even what I described might not be enough in the United States. Maybe it will work temporarily in another country, but feminism and "women empowerment" is spreading quickly. You'll be in a race against the clock.

A good woman today is one who is well aware of temptations but has willingly chosen to not take active part. If you think you can shelter a grown woman completely from anything "degenerate", you are delusional.

If the girl's father has already sheltered her when she was young, and now she is married to you, you should be able to trust that she will not immediately change her personality 180 degrees and go cuck you the first chance she gets.

If a girl is properly sheltered and taught the right way to live when she is young, then the idea is that she will know right from wrong.

I don't have to worry about my wife reading "Cosmpolitan" or watching degenerate movies/TV shows and then deciding she wants to live like that. She was raised by a good father and she knows right from wrong.

If you think that every woman (including traditional girls that were raised by good fathers[/i]) is basically a feral animal that is just waiting for the opportunity to become a degenerate the very minute her father lets her leave the house, then you are the one who is delusional.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 06:54 PM)RDF Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 04:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

For me, it is just a visceral reaction I have. I would not be able to imagine my wife or girlfriend taking another man's dick and just be okay with it.

That is your issue. If you feel that way, that's fine. You found a virgin wife and seem happy. That's great. But just because you have this reaction doesn't mean that everybody does, or that it is a healthy, normal male reaction.

Actually, it is a healthy, normal male reaction.

I would love to take a poll of all the married guys in the forum. How many of you would have a problem with the thought of your wife taking dick from some other guy?

Throughout human history, men have almost always preferred virgins, and have not been okay with the idea of their wives taking dick from other men.

Are you really trying to tell me that having a visceral aversion to cuckoldry is not a "healthy, normal male reaction?"

(12-30-2018 06:54 PM)RDF Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 04:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

Additionally, I don't think that just because a girl has never been "tempted" (i.e. exposed to the degenerate lifestyle) necessarily means that she will eventually get exposed to it and become a slut. In fact, I think if a girl has never been exposed to degeneracy in her life (i.e. never had to "resist temptation" before), it might just be because her father did a good job sheltering her and making sure she never had to face situations like that.

If that is indeed the case, how do you plan to shelter her from the degeneracy of the modern world now that she's out of her father's household? Move to a small town, have her pump out 3 kids, and only let her socialize at church and at the local grocery store? Make sure she doesn't have a smartphone, internet access or TV? Because if she's got an iPhone, one click onto Yahoo and she will be bombarded with stories from Cosmo about how a woman is more empowered if she fucks more men.

For better or worse, it is 2018. Short of doing what I just described, you will never be able to shelter her completely from the society in which she lives. Even what I described might not be enough in the United States. Maybe it will work temporarily in another country, but feminism and "women empowerment" is spreading quickly. You'll be in a race against the clock.

A good woman today is one who is well aware of temptations but has willingly chosen to not take active part. If you think you can shelter a grown woman completely from anything "degenerate", you are delusional.

If the girl's father has already sheltered her when she was young, and now she is married to you, you should be able to trust that she will not immediately change her personality 180 degrees and go cuck you the first chance she gets.

If a girl is properly sheltered and taught the right way to live when she is young, then the idea is that she will know right from wrong.

I don't have to worry about my wife reading "Cosmpolitan" or watching degenerate movies/TV shows and then deciding she wants to live like that. She was raised by a good father and she knows right from wrong.

If you think that every woman (including traditional girls that were raised right) is basically a feral animal that is just waiting for the opportunity to become a degenerate the very minute her father lets her leave the house, then you are the one who is delusional.

If you want to be so black-pilled about everything, be my guest, but you don't need to berate everyone who isn't as black-pilled as you.

Davis Aurini had a good point earlier when he said the following:

(12-30-2018 06:46 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

A lot of guys getting heated in this conversation. Are you guys angry because you disagree with the strategy being promoted? Or are you angry with the state of the world, and you're lashing out at those who are trying to survive it?

[BlastbeatCasanova]

@Rob Banks

I’m just looking at the reality of it all, man. Maybe you’re a decent bit older than me and it was a possibility to find a pure virgin bride in your day. I’m young and marriage doesn’t seem ideal to me, but I could see potential long term coupling in the future. I’ve known and been with quality non-virgins who had good heads on their shoulders that would probably make suitable long-term partners for a solid man. One final thing, since I have myself contributed to the degeneracy by spinning plates all the PUA stuff, for me to be gung ho about getting a virgin seems a little hypocritical. I still have a lot of developing to do and I’m still figuring it out.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 07:31 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

@Rob Banks

I’m just looking at the reality of it all, man. Maybe you’re a decent bit older than me and it was a possibility to find a pure virgin bride in your day. I’m young and marriage doesn’t seem ideal to me, but I could see potential long term coupling in the future. I’ve known and been with quality non-virgins who had good heads on their shoulders that would probably make suitable long-term partners for a solid man. One final thing, since I have myself contributed to the degeneracy by spinning plates all the PUA stuff, for me to be gung ho about getting a virgin seems a little hypocritical. I still have a lot of developing to do and I’m still figuring it out.

I'm actually quite young. 27. I have known my wife since I was 16 and she was 17. Granted, she is not American, and I met her overseas in my mom's country.

Yes, I realize I got very lucky.

If you are young, I see how you don't think marriage is for you, especially if you live in America. When you get older, though, you will probably decide you want a family. I can't imagine it would be very fulfilling to bang sluts until you're 50 or 60 and then die alone with no family by your side and one to leave anything to, knowing that your entire bloodline is going to the grave with you.

[Heuristics]

Rob:

I’m using the term in a derivative sense like many do—not the proper sense. Where players think it unacceptable to accept a girl in a LTR/ Marriage with only one, or few, notches. Quite simply you write off women with a notch or two, and say they’re whores and the marriage won’t succeed. It seems like weak logic to me.

Re: Pump and dump. Yes I know men are prone to it. But it’s basic game theory here: don’t pump and dump women so much across the whole culture, and overall quality of women is going up. Basically, you are a player that has lasting repercussions on everyone, both genders, not just yourself. Your behavior reverberates onto women and norms in the larger community. Look at individual-level tolerance of gayness or promiscuity in conservative communities. Norms and behaviors start at the individual level, then work their way into the whole of society. By participating in a libertine sexual culture you are contributing to the creation of bad sexual norms, it is that simple. Much like one person (individual) cutting the line hurts everyone else in the line (community), such is also the case with community sexual norms.

Re: living longer. Better medical care now, less infant mortality, less childbirth deaths, less violence. I’ll leave it at that.

A girl’s actions are subtly influenced by society. You can’t control that. You can’t pick her friends, you can’t prevent her from social media, you can’t lock her up. We live in a modern society where women are afforded all the exact same rights as men, and even more. Again,I repeat, most women are situational virgins and not red-pilled religious virgins. Many cannot understand the subtle difference.

Ceding of individual responsibility is a clue to me that we are living in a declining society where almost all men are unwilling to make moral, independent choices. In my view that makes them boys, and really no better than the women that slut around. This sort of reminds me of how damaging groupthink can be. Groupthink does not move society forward, in fact it leads to regression. Men should take full ownership of their actions. In the quest to be better human beings, all of us, especially men, have to take responsibility.

Saying, “I can do nothing” feeds into a destructive “enjoy the decline” nihilist mentality that actually accelerates societal collapse. Ironically men that want virgins should want a society that does not tolerate deviance or sexual libertinism. Thus, as men in their early youths, they should avoid as much participation as possible in the degeneracy. Not because sex is bad, or anything like that, simply because they are pissing in a communal pool that everyone has to swim in.

I doubt my frame is strong enough to get a virgin. I also doubt most other player’s frames are strong enough for a virgin. Most men are too old for a virgin in the west, if they do marry, they’ll marry a younger guy. Christian chad is getting the virgin. Your virgin is for all purposes unobtainable, and you’ll be searching forever. In that time you won’t have any kids, no family. Even if you get her, she will be corrupted. She will have bad friends. She will work. She will be exposed to bad influences. You don’t know how she will handle temptation because she probably hasn’t handled much. You will have put a lot of effort and money and love into the relationship. All women are like that, she’s nothing special. She’ll still leave when she finds someone better. You don’t live in a patriarchal culture, and you don’t live in a vacuum.

I will have no problem having kids with a girl with 1-notch count. I have no problem at all with a virgin, but practically it’s bound to fail. I view a virgin as ideal, but probably an unobtainable one due to the reasons I’ve already given.

Human nature will not change while society itself will get worse. You’re playing a rigged game that will only get worse, and assuming solely virginity is the solution to a much bigger societal issue is just stop-gap problem solving.

The question ought not be: I'd rather have a virgin than a low notch girl; the question should be: will a relationship in the real world with a virgin be more successful than a relationship with a low notch girl. Will you even find a virgin? Keep in mind opportunity cost too, the years of your life spent on the search, no children during that time, all of that; it's the real world and not some utopia.

[asdfk]

In "PUA", we learn how to get girls and create the type of relationship we want.

You learn how to control the outcome in relationships by keeping frame and putting your best interest first.

But there's only one thing you can never control. And that's if a woman will stick with you.

In our time, leaving a man has little consequences for women. They won't ruin their finances (or might even improve them). They won't lose face in the community (or even get increased status).

Instead of looking at this as bad developments, I choose to embrace these facts of our time as the ultimate filter.

A girl won't hurt her chances in life by leaving me. So if she decides to stay, it is because our relationship is rewarding in and of itself.

[Aurini]

(12-30-2018 07:24 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

I don't have to worry about my wife reading "Cosmpolitan" or watching degenerate movies/TV shows and then deciding she wants to live like that. She was raised by a good father and she knows right from wrong.

Rob - I'm really not trying to attack you - but I think you're being a bit naive.

Cosmo is one thing. What about watching a good quality movie like "Inside Out"? There's nothing particularly subversive in that film - I'll stand by it as good quality children's entertainment. However, it's stewed in the same marxist stew as anything else created in the present year. Consider the following scene:

So, the above scene references the mother's 5 Minutes of Alpha; ignoring the appropriateness of including something like that in a kid's movie (again, modernism), it comes across as fairly innocuous. Married couples getting frustrated with one another is the norm.

But do you know what that movie doesn't have? Any "male entitlement" where they imagine the hotty in the secretary pool. Including something like that wouldn't have been a cute joke, like Mister Helicopter Pilot; it would have been damnable patriarchy.

You can protect her from Cosmo. But short of shutting off the Internet and putting her in a burka, you can't protect her from that. The poz is everywhere.

What Roosh was trying to point out was that it's reasonable to seek a wife who's immune to the modernist virus. A girl with a couple of pox-scars - who nonetheless survived - may be a better bet than one who's never been exposed.

Granted, this is debateable. But you seem to be taking this far too personally, brother. Nobody's trying to criticize the choices you've made; we're just trying to figure out how all of us can make it through.

[EndsExpect]

I married a virgin at age 20... she was 19. We were part of a very Evangelical Church.... lots of the girls in the church married as virgins. It's been about 18 years now and the success rate of those marriages is VERY low. My xWife cheated at the 7 year mark. I'd say at this point the marriage failure rate is near 75% and the number one issue is female infidelity. I've spoken to a number of the women involved and the moment they got upset with their husbands or bored... they constantly wondered what other guys where like. I also was a virgin when I married... so I can completely understand their curiosity.

I think it's very possible to marry a virgin and make things work. You have to be a solid guy and marry a woman who is generally content... which is a rare female trait.

My personal opinion is that the best marriages will be with a woman 23-28 with 2 to 4 sexual experiences. Keep in mind this is just my opinion based on experiences I've had. What most of us are looking for are guarantees... and none exist. If we really wanted guaranteed marriages we would all be Muslim guys and if your wife cheats you just drag her into the street, pour gasoline on her head, light a match, and walk away.

[Jozi]

(12-30-2018 11:27 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

Look mate, it's one thing to settle for a 7 or 8 if you've dreamed of nailing a 9 or 10. It's another to marry your cutie high school sweetheart virgin and watch her transform into a tatted Instagram whore.

I didn't settle and neither should you. Always make it clear that you are willing to walk away from the deal if immutable rules are being broken. Reg. children: this is why men traditionally married younger woman. With some life experience you make better choices and don't marry as a teenager without having a clue on how to keep that bitch in check.

When you say you "didn't settle", does that mean you married your dream girl? Or that you are still looking?

If you did get married to a cute young virgin, congrats. But don't expect she won't entertain taking other men's semen (whether she will act on it for real or just in her imagination), or that she wouldn't leave you in a heartbeat if a man of much higher statue than you would come along (like in the Justin Bieber example above).

If you haven't married or had children and are still looking for that "perfect" woman to do it with, then start preparing yourself mentally for it to never materialize. You will grow old pissed off at society and everyone in it, thinking you have been treated unfairly. But nobody will care or even waste a second of sympathy. The world will go on just fine without you.

And no, you don't have to settle for a washed out whore. But there will only ever be one person sticking with you through thick and thin and until the end, and that is yourself. So live your life with that in mind.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 08:47 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 07:24 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

I don't have to worry about my wife reading "Cosmpolitan" or watching degenerate movies/TV shows and then deciding she wants to live like that. She was raised by a good father and she knows right from wrong.

Rob - I'm really not trying to attack you - but I think you're being a bit naive.

Cosmo is one thing. What about watching a good quality movie like "Inside Out"? There's nothing particularly subversive in that film - I'll stand by it as good quality children's entertainment. However, it's stewed in the same marxist stew as anything else created in the present year. Consider the following scene:

So, the above scene references the mother's 5 Minutes of Alpha; ignoring the appropriateness of including something like that in a kid's movie (again, modernism), it comes across as fairly innocuous. Married couples getting frustrated with one another is the norm.

But do you know what that movie doesn't have? Any "male entitlement" where they imagine the hotty in the secretary pool. Including something like that wouldn't have been a cute joke, like Mister Helicopter Pilot; it would have been damnable patriarchy.

You can protect her from Cosmo. But short of shutting off the Internet and putting her in a burka, you can't protect her from that. The poz is everywhere.

What Roosh was trying to point out was that it's reasonable to seek a wife who's immune to the modernist virus. A girl with a couple of pox-scars - who nonetheless survived - may be a better bet than one who's never been exposed.

Granted, this is debateable. But you seem to be taking this far too personally, brother. Nobody's trying to criticize the choices you've made; we're just trying to figure out how all of us can make it through.

Just watched the video you embedded. Yeah, that's pretty bad, considering it's a kids' movie. Very inappropriate.

I'm not taking anything personally, just giving my opinion. I may have gotten a little frustrated with some of the people saying things like "It's 2018, virginity doesn't matter. Let girls have fun." and things to that effect.

The only thing I might have taken a little personally was the poster who was trying to tell me that I am "delusional" if I actually trust my wife not to cuck me; that she can go read Cosmo and watch movies and TV and she will obviously become a degenerate slut eventually (or something to that effect).

As far as a girl with a few "pox scars" who "survived," I personally would not use "scars" as a metaphor for dicks taken. Maybe it's just me, but I just really can't stand the hypothetical thought of my wife having submitted herself sexually to another man before she ever met me, and knowing that I am devoting my life to another man's sloppy seconds.

Also, when you say that it's better to have a girl who "was exposed to the degeneracy virus and survived" than a girl who has never been exposed, the phrase implies that the girl was exposed to degeneracy, tempted by it, and yet never gave in to it or engaged in it. If you're talking about a girl who had casual sex a few times in her life but now avoids it, then that means she engaged in degeneracy at least a couple of times.

I think that most girls who somehow went through life in the modern world without being "exposed" to degeneracy are probably not very adventurous people in the first place. They are more likely to be women who prefer to stay in their comfort zone. So I don't see why a girl who was raised right, and doesn't have a very adventurous personality to begin with, would suddenly watch a couple movies or TV shows and think to herself "Fuck my husband. I'm going to get some strange." Sure, it could happen, but I think it is less likely to happen with a girl like this (virgin at marriage, never exposed to degeneracy) than it is with a girl who "only" had casual sex 2 or 3 times before marriage. A girl who has had casual sex before will be more willing to do it again than a girl who has never had casual sex before.

Any girl can potentially cuck you, given the right circumstances. I'm not so naive as to deny that. I just think that a girl who has only been with one man is less likely to cheat than a girl who has been with 3 or 4.

I get what Roosh was trying to say. I just respectfully disagree. I'd rather "take my chances" with a virgin (knowing that if it goes well, she will 100% belong to me and not to any other man) than devote my life to a girl who has already given away part of her soul to other men (even if I could somehow be 100% sure that the latter would not cuck me).

I also understand that many men who are in their 30s or 40s want to start families, and that it is unrealistic to think they will find virgins. If I were in that position, I'd rather settle for a relatively chaste woman than give up on starting a family and remain a bachelor forever. When I say that a virgin is better, I am talking about the ideal. I am not at all saying that any girl who is not a virgin is a total slut and worth nothing in an LTR (or anything to that effect).

[RDF]

(12-30-2018 09:57 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

The only thing I might have taken a little personally was the poster who was trying to tell me that I am "delusional" if I actually trust my wife not to cuck me; that she can go read Cosmo and watch movies and TV and she will obviously become a degenerate slut eventually (or something to that effect).

You probably skimmed over the part of my post when I said that its great that you found a virgin to marry. Congratulations. I mean that sincerely. You have your standards and you've executed on them. I don't care what standards somebody else has for marriage. It's your life, not mine.

I also never said that your wife is going to become a slut. I said that she WILL be exposed to degeneracy and subversive ideas. Whether that exposure changes her will depend on multiple factors, mostly her innate personality, upbringing, and the framework that you provide. I don't know you or her and I have no clue whether it will change her.

My issue is that in many of your posts you're implying (and sometimes directly stating) that any man who marries a woman who is not a virgin is essentially a cuckold. If you're going to imply that myself and others on the forum are cuckolds because we don't share your exact standards, that's something I do take issue with.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 08:56 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

I married a virgin at age 20... she was 19. We were part of a very Evangelical Church.... lots of the girls in the church married as virgins. It's been about 18 years now and the success rate of those marriages is VERY low. My xWife cheated at the 7 year mark. I'd say at this point the marriage failure rate is near 75% and the number one issue is female infidelity. I've spoken to a number of the women involved and the moment they got upset with their husbands or bored... they constantly wondered what other guys where like. I also was a virgin when I married... so I can completely understand their curiosity.

I think it's very possible to marry a virgin and make things work. You have to be a solid guy and marry a woman who is generally content... which is a rare female trait.

If you're not a "solid" enough guy to make marriage to a virgin work, then you're not going to be able to make marriage to a non-virgin work either. A virgin will have nothing to compare you to. A non-virgin will. Also, a non-virgin will be less hesitant to sleep with other men if she is not satisfied with the marriage, since she has done it before. It is nothing new to her.

(12-30-2018 08:56 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

My personal opinion is that the best marriages will be with a woman 23-28 with 2 to 4 sexual experiences. Keep in mind this is just my opinion based on experiences I've had. What most of us are looking for are guarantees... and none exist.

Graphs such as this one show a positive correlation between a woman's number or premarital sex partners and her likelihood of divorce. All studies have pretty much shown that women with 0 partners prior to marriage are the least likely to divorce, and that the divorce rate is positively correlated to the girl's number of partners before marriage.

(12-30-2018 08:56 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

If we really wanted guaranteed marriages we would all be Muslim guys and if your wife cheats you just drag her into the street, pour gasoline on her head, light a match, and walk away.

This is obviously a very aggressive approach, and civilized non-Muslim men have not acted like this for centuries. However, there was a time when violence against women (including extreme violence and killing) was considered acceptable if your wife cucked you, even in non-Muslim cultures. This is obviously very wrong, and we have come a long way as a society since those times, but it shows that men have a primitive drive to protect their honor and take any and all measures to avoid getting cucked.

I do not support any sort of domestic violence under any circumstances. At the same time, I think that if a woman cucks her husband, that is about the most aggressive and violent thing she can do to him. Women are not aggressive/violent with physical force. Instead, they are aggressive with words and emotions. Cucking a man is just about the worst, most brutal think a woman can do to him. That is why it used to be considered acceptable for a man to get violent after having something like that done to him.

[Jozi]

(12-30-2018 09:57 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

Any girl can potentially cuck you, given the right circumstances. I'm not so naive as to deny that. I just think that a girl who has only been with one man is less likely to cheat than a girl who has been with 3 or 4.

Even if she won't cheat on you physically, she will still cheat on you in her imagination. Now whether that's OK or not is up to you.

Btw, I am with you on the virgin thing. I wouldn't marry a non-virgin either (although I would impregnate a non-virgin). But that doesn't mean I have any delusions about her "purity". At the end of the day she's just another slut NPC, virgin or not. And I will act, prepare and treat her accordingly (which means, I won't expect unconditional or forever-lasting love, and I won't give up any of my own pleasures in life for the sake of being called a "good husband").

I also do not believe women who have "actively avoided temptation" to be much better or safer bets. For one, the fact that it was a temptation means they actually wanted something that didn't include you. How does that make you feel? Secondly, there is no way to actually verify that they have done this. But even if they have, and they truly have this idea, for how long will they hold this belief? People (and even more so females) change their minds.

So, it doesn't matter who she is or what she believes, you shouldn't give up your life for her anyway. In the end it will not be reciprocated, and no gold stars or pats on the back will be received.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 10:15 PM)RDF Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 09:57 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

The only thing I might have taken a little personally was the poster who was trying to tell me that I am "delusional" if I actually trust my wife not to cuck me; that she can go read Cosmo and watch movies and TV and she will obviously become a degenerate slut eventually (or something to that effect).

You probably skimmed over the part of my post when I said that its great that you found a virgin to marry. Congratulations. I mean that sincerely. You have your standards and you've executed on them. I don't care what standards somebody else has for marriage. It's your life, not mine.

I also never said that your wife is going to become a slut. I said that she WILL be exposed to degeneracy and subversive ideas. Whether that exposure changes her will depend on multiple factors, mostly her innate personality, upbringing, and the framework that you provide. I don't know you or her and I have no clue whether it will change her.

My issue is that in many of your posts you're implying (and sometimes directly stating) that any man who marries a woman who is not a virgin is essentially a cuckold. If you're going to imply that myself and others on the forum are cuckolds because we don't share your exact standards, that's something I do take issue with.

I see how you could take it that way. I didn't mean that at all, though. Several times, I said that I totally understand that a man who wants to have a family will settle for a relatively chaste (non-virgin) girl because in this day and age, holding out for a virgin will probably mean you will end up alone and with no family. I got lucky because I met my wife when I was in my teens and I was living overseas. If this had not happened, I would almost certainly not be married, and I would be faced with the choice between either settling for a non-virgin or never having a family of my own. I am 27. I am under no delusions that I would be able to find a virgin to marry being 30+ in America. I would obviously have to settle for a (relatively) chaste non-virgin. Would this make me a cuckold? No, not at all.

Like I said in an earlier post, all I am saying is that finding a virgin girl is the ideal. I was taking issue with some of the guys saying that they would rather marry a non-virgin than a virgin.

I totally understand the realities of the modern world, and that it is necessary for basically any Western man over the age of 25 to settle for a non-virgin if he wants to get married and start a family at all.

[Heuristics]

You should realize you likely got very lucky, simply put, the odds are not on men’s side to end up with a virgin in 2018 for numerous reasons.

One LTR relationship with sex prior to marriage doesn’t really constitute “having fun” to me, but maybe I’m splitting hairs.

Women will cuck men regardless of whether they are virgins or not. I’m concerned you’re not understanding AWALT and it’s meaning. All Women Are Like That. All women behave the same.

Something like 97 percent of people have had premarital sex. Obsessing over something so common seems like a sign of insecurity or maybe inadequacy. Or maybe a desire for absolute control. I do not hold the belief that women are precious flowers, they’re sexual human beings that want to fuck, and daydream about fucking all the time.

All women in the West will be exposed to degeneracy, it is just a question of how they deal with it. Women do not have superhuman minds nonsusceptible to influence. In fact, because they are more social than men, they are going to be much more influenced by degeneracy and normalization of undesirable behaviors than men. Virgins will get exposed to degeneracy and you have no clue what will happen.

It sounds downright impossible, much less fun, to manage a virgin thus preventing her from going off the rails.

Girls all cheat. Doesn’t matter if they’re a virgin or not.

[The Catalyst]

Personally for me even though I really like the idea of a virgin wife if the choice was a virgin wife who might cheat or a 3 notch wife who almost certainly wouldn't I'd pick the 3 notch wife in a heartbeat. It's all about practicality for me instead of psychology.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 10:21 PM)Jozi Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 09:57 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

Any girl can potentially cuck you, given the right circumstances. I'm not so naive as to deny that. I just think that a girl who has only been with one man is less likely to cheat than a girl who has been with 3 or 4.

Even if she won't cheat on you physically, she will still cheat on you in her imagination. Now whether that's OK or not is up to you.

Even if this were 100% certain to be true, if a girl "cheats" on you in her imagination, that is not cheating, it is just fantasizing. Obviously, I wouldn't be thrilled by it, but it is not comparable to actual physical cheating.

(12-30-2018 10:21 PM)Jozi Wrote:  

Btw, I am with you on the virgin thing. I wouldn't marry a non-virgin either (although I would impregnate a non-virgin). But that doesn't mean I have any delusions about her "purity". At the end of the day she's just another slut NPC, virgin or not. And I will act, prepare and treat her accordingly (which means, I won't expect unconditional or forever-lasting love, and I won't give up any of my own pleasures in life for the sake of being called a "good husband").

I also do not believe women who have "actively avoided temptation" to be much better or safer bets. For one, the fact that it was a temptation means they actually wanted something that didn't include you. How does that make you feel? Secondly, there is no way to actually verify that they have done this. But even if they have, and they truly have this idea, for how long will they hold this belief? People (and even more so females) change their minds.

So, it doesn't matter who she is or what she believes, you shouldn't give up your life for her anyway. In the end it will not be reciprocated, and no gold stars or pats on the back will be received.

Are you saying it is impossible for a woman to actually truly love and respect her man?

[MajorStyles]

(12-30-2018 08:13 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

Fifty three thousand followers on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/caitlinflads_

That's the size of the University of Florida, constantly giving her confidence that she's doing the right thing.

The thirst of the beta-male man is shocking. They'll applaud any slut that's a 7 or higher, regardless of the bile that spews from her mouth. They never catch a bite, and yet they keep on casting their desperate line.

But the universe is just. Rarely do these women reciprocate the amorous offerings of the Incel fan club; ironically (or perhaps not so ironically) most of these trollops will end up alone despite the bevy of offers they receive.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 10:27 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Women will cuck men regardless of whether they are virgins or not. I’m concerned you’re not understanding AWALT and it’s meaning. All Women Are Like That. All women behave the same.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You're basically saying that my wife, my sister, my mother, and every woman I know personally (in addition to the wives and mothers of every other man on this forum) are "like that" (i.e. degenerate sluts). I think a lot of people here would not appreciate that. A lot of us have women in our lives who we consider to be loved ones and/or close family members, and who we don't consider to be degenerate sluts at all.

[Heuristics]

(12-30-2018 10:35 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 10:27 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Women will cuck men regardless of whether they are virgins or not. I’m concerned you’re not understanding AWALT and it’s meaning. All Women Are Like That. All women behave the same.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You're basically saying that my wife, my sister, my mother, and every woman I know personally (in addition to the wives and mothers of every other man on this forum) are "like that" (i.e. degenerate sluts). I think a lot of people here would not appreciate that. A lot of us have women in our lives who we consider to be loved ones and/or close family members, and who we don't consider to be degenerate sluts at all.

I am asking you to understand human nature. I harbor no negative feelings. I would impregnate a 10 no problems. That's how males operate. Similarly, women would jump at the chance to be with a 10 male even if he had a harem. That's part of their nature.

Quick reality check: talk to a female who is honest in your life. Most likely a mother, grandmother, aunt, sister, etc. I'm not calling all women sluts, I'm just saying women are human. We all live less than perfect lives. If humans can't be perfect, than women can't either. Just to be fair, you could ask a male figure in your life about his sexual experiences, why did he finally decide to settle down, and with whom?

I'm saying nothing about the circle of family/friends around you. But you will get the full story from the statistics.