[Conscious Pirate]

So, the thread that keep on giving on the Gamma front is paying dividends on Sigmas also, with AB leading the charge with tales of his mate Bill. I am enthralled with these. More please AB.

I am also enthralled by one Donald J Trump, who I also think has been accurately defined as a Sigma.

I have identified in the past with the Sigma persona, but hadn't looked into it fully. I haven't yet gone through Vox's stuff (which I plan to do), however from the understanding I have gathered so far, when I look at my posting history it reads, to me at least, like a rampant Sigma.

Here are a couple of recent examples...

Model photographer needed

Please leave negative feedback here

oh & this spate of shitposting in...
Black & White Nationalists That Date Ouside Their Race

I am wary of the narcissistic overtones of such a thread premise, but I thought I would open it up with my self observances & see what others had of self or those around them.

Sigma stories please. I love these bastards.

[Tex Cruise]

Sigmas are pieces of shit.



If they were any good, then why don't you see them on the road any more.

[Veloce]

I'll admit I just started reading up on AB's thorough threads on Gammas and saw everything posted about Sigmas.

My first thought was "Fuck this is me to a T" but then I hate navel gazing and excessive self-analysis, mostly because I can't be bothered to take evaluations like that too seriously and I feel above most of that shit. I guess that's something a Sigma would say, who knows. AB's analysis of Sigmas being especially good at pissing people off, being impatient in conversation, having a shit eating grin...me, me, me.

I also picture a lot of keyboard warriors out there thinking, "Oooh I'm a lone wolf introvert, I must be a Sigma" and I'd really rather not associate with that.

But that part about achieving one's station in life on one's terms...this passage here:

"Sigmas are not born, they are made. They are shaped from years of adversity and physical and mental trial. This accounts for why there are few very young Sigmas. Most Sigmas only come into their own in their late twenties. A man can naturally be an Alpha from birth. An Alpha’s strength lies in his social skills, natural charm and force of personality. These are often with him from childhood and develop stronger in more stable and privilieged backgrounds. For the Sigma it is very different. His strengths, independence, resilience and toughness are only acquired in overcoming hardship and surviving difficult backgrounds"

This resonates a lot. I've got no problem admitting to past (or even present) beta behavior. After all I think most men operate with certain percentages of attributes...maybe they're alpha as fuck with the occasional beta tendency or vice versa. Or a certain percentage beta and some gamma. But I've noticed a concentration of character traits that most people go through, and part of that is the being comfortable in one's skin aspect. There are times when I wish I had more friends but anytime I'm in a group I often find myself wanting to leave the conversation to find someone as above-it-all as I am, or just sit in the corner and drink by myself making small talk to the bartender.

A guy sitting by himself in a bar isn't necessarily a lone wolf. You've gotta look at his body language. I see single guys in the bar all the time. If their elbows are on the bar with their hands clasped together, that's no lone wolf. That's just a lonely motherfucker, nothing against him for that. Being a guy in the West can be hard.

I'd use Bukowski as the flag-bearer for lone wolves or 'Sigmas'. Look at his body language:









He's a genuine, drunken ape. Everything about him registers as authentically comfortable in his own skin. And here's where everyone fucks it up: he's comfortable in his discomfort. He wears his insecurity and vulnerability and flaws on his sleeve for the world to observe, he simply doesn't give a fuck. His body language proudly declares: "Take me as I am, I don't give two shits".

Now look at two different actors playing Bukowski:





No wonder Buk had disdain for Hollywood. There's no comparison. There's no authenticity whatsoever.

[The Catalyst]

This is just begging for Suits to come and sigma it all up.

[thebassist]

I'll be honest, the idea of self-identifying as Sigma is pretty lame, as you yourself alluded to. According to AB's threads (don't have much time for Vox Day), a 'true' sigma probably wouldn't give a fuck about some imaginary categories that some psych nerds online came up with, much less how they would fit into the framework.

Kind of reminds me of the new-age faggotry of indigo children, where special snowflakes self-identify as being more advanced, spiritually attuned beings on the forefront of the evolution of humanity, in order to justify the irrational feeling of superiority that they have over everyone around them.

From wikipedia:

Quote:

Descriptions of indigo children include that they:

Are empathic, curious, and strong-willed
Are often perceived by friends and family as being strange
Possess a clear sense of self-definition and purpose
Show a strong innate subconscious spirituality from early childhood (which, however, does not necessarily imply a direct interest in spiritual or religious areas)
Have a strong feeling of entitlement, or deserving to be here
Other alleged traits include:[8][10]

High intelligence quotient
Inherent intuitive ability
Resistance to rigid, control-based paradigms of authority
According to Tober and Carroll, indigo children may function poorly in conventional schools due to their rejection of rigid authority, their being smarter or more spiritually mature than their teachers, and their lack of response to guilt-, fear- or manipulation-based discipline.

It's crazy how well this list defines me!!! Everyone thinks I'm a fucking weirdo because I'm such a nonconformist and I dress like some shit I saw in anime and reek of patchouli oil!! Wow I do badly at school but still feel smarter and better than everyone around me, it must be because I'm an indigo child!!!

It's just another appeal to narcissism, really, to read a list of appealing-sounding traits and to think wow, that's just so me.

So it's interesting to read about and all, but please catch yourself when you start trying to analyze yourself to put yourself into an intellectually appealing box, I hope you can see why I'm saying this.

Btw I'm actually a pyschopathic dark-triad alpha, AMA

[BortimusPrime]

I identify as a sigmoid personality, mainly because of the irritable bowel syndrome.

[thebassist]

Kaotic on the subject of Vox Day's classifications:

(08-17-2016 05:31 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

This is like horoscopes for bitches.

[Conscious Pirate]

(07-10-2017 04:01 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

I hope you can see why I'm saying this.

Btw I'm actually a pyschopathic dark-triad alpha, AMA

I hope you can.

[thebassist]

(07-10-2017 04:29 AM)Conscious Pirate Wrote:  

(07-10-2017 04:01 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

I hope you can see why I'm saying this.

Btw I'm actually a pyschopathic dark-triad alpha, AMA

I hope you can.

I'm trying my best bro, but as a self-identified dark-triad psychopath alpha, my callousness and lack of empathy (amongst my many other machiavellian traits) don't allow me to see things from any other perspective besides my own..

I hope you know I'm just taking the piss by the way, I do find this topic interesting to read about, I just don't want us taking some of these things too seriously

[Conscious Pirate]

So don't take it seriously..... & fuck off.


Sigma out

[RawGod]

The concept of sigma gets a lot of hate. I actually find value in Vox's classification, despite the problem of "omegas" or "gammas" claiming to be a cool sigma from behind the keyboard. The fact is that awkward guys who have successfully implemented self-improvement and are non-conformist are likely to fit the sigma ideal more than alpha. The difference being that alphas actually enjoy engaging in hierarchical social structures, because they can win at it, whereas sigmas don't - they have learned to "win" in a real, non-delusional sense by not participating in the games most others play.

[Dan Woolf]

The part of the sexual hierarchy post that most guys always conveniently forget:

Quote:

Now, it is important to keep in mind that it serves absolutely no purpose to identify yourself in some manner that you think is "better" or higher up the hierarchy. No one cares what you think you are and your opinion about your place in the social hierarchy is probably the opinion that matters least. There is no good or bad here, there is only what happens to be observable in social interaction. Consider: alphas seemingly rule the roost and yet they live in a world of constant conflict and status testing. Sigmas usually acquired their outsider status the hard way; one seldom becomes immune to the social hierarchy by virtue of mass popularity in one's childhood. Betas... okay, betas actually have it pretty good. But the important thing to keep in mind is that you can't improve your chances of success in the social game if you begin by attempting to deceive yourself as to where you stand vis-a-vis everyone else around you.

[sterling_archer]

If someone could describe Sigma in one sentence, what that sentence would be? A loner alpha who doesn't care about social hierarchy? Or something other?

I am reading about these sigmas but I have trouble understanding what do they differ from the alphas.

[AnonymousBosch]

(07-10-2017 04:01 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

It's just another appeal to narcissism, really, to read a list of appealing-sounding traits and to think wow, that's just so me.

So it's interesting to read about and all, but please catch yourself when you start trying to analyze yourself to put yourself into an intellectually appealing box, I hope you can see why I'm saying this.

The funniest part about this is I already made these exact arguments back in March when Zelcorpion was arguing with me that I was a Sigma, and I was rationalising myself out of the label, thinking it 'arrogant' and 'narcissistic'. Apologies to Zelcorp - given my upbringing, and the harsh childhood transition to Gamma Fuck (Contempt For Everyone for not liking me) to Sigma Fuck (Everyone now likes me 'cause I have Contempt For Everything and don't care if they like me or not), I've got to say he was right. I just would never be able to have gotten ahead in my career if I didn't perform Beta. I just know how to control my mouth.

Note that back then, I still thought Bill was superficially an Alpha - I'm in Australia, we're a crude people - until we spent enough time traveling together that I could really see the full depth of his personality. I didn't understand just how blunt he is with women.

A few days ago, we were talking out back, and the phone rings. He looks at the number: "She must be wanting me dick."

He answers. His phone volume is loud, due to his hearing. The whole conversation:

"Bill."

"Hi Baby. I was just thinking of you."

"Ya home? I need an empty out." *

"Yes, I'm home."

"See ya in ten."

*click*

He put the phone back on the table. "Mate. This chick is a nine. If you copped a look at her, you'd be off to the bog for a flog."

I guarantee there are Gammas reading this who think I'm lying or exaggerating, because you couldn't possibly talk to a girl like that and actually get to make love to her..

* Note how he doesn't 'make love', he 'empties his sack'. He doesn't tell her he loves her, or to dress sexy. He just wants to know if she's there, that he wants to fuck, and he'll see her in 10.

Note also: she doesn't pretend to have a headache.

[AnonymousBosch]

Before anyone thinks Sigma is the 'cool' thing to be - if you 'get' them and they respect you, they're entertaining as hell - there are downsides. Half of my teenage arrests were due to my Sigma Mate not knowing when to shut the fuck up, even when outnumbered seven to one.

Paging Comte De St. Germain! You have a solid grasp of Sigma, and some insights that intrigued me. Jump in mate - explain the negatives.

[The Catalyst]

The thing about Sigmas especially about being bored with social interactions really describes me.

For me if I know the start of the conversational thread and know the people involved(or I can guess their personalities from their look/demographic) most of the time I can more or less predict what the group would talk about involving the thread. So it's like if I let a conversation run it's almost the same as if I simulated it in my head. But if I wanted to make things interesting I actually always have to take the lead, which isn't 100% natural for me. The best situations in my life are if someone else takes the lead AND has the conversation be interesting.

[weambulance]

(07-10-2017 06:00 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Before anyone thinks Sigma is the 'cool' thing to be - if you 'get' them and they respect you, they're entertaining as hell - there are downsides.

Yep. Vox Day tends to make sigma sound glamorous, but sometimes "not playing the game" means getting fucked hard by the system. Whether the system is the government or the corporate world.

[AnonymousBosch]

(07-10-2017 06:32 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

Yep. Vox Day tends to make sigma sound glamorous, but sometimes "not playing the game" means getting fucked hard by the system. Whether the system is the government or the corporate world.

Or not living up to your potential. I know I'm a damn good songwriter. I was involved in music scenes for years, and everyone around me was so desperate to be picked up, to be 'discovered', to get the golden ring of major label record deal in a way I never was. I wanted to just make good music, you know? And one by one, I'd watch the other bands approached, like I was, and readily give in to what the record company thought was 'cool' and would get fucktarded kids buying records, which I was never interested in doing and would frustrate those prodding me, because no-one ever knows what cool is, no-one ever knows what will sell, and the only thing that makes an artist interesting is their unique outlook and sound.

On the very rare occasion I see myself on Rage, I am never embarrassed, as such, more just reminded that 'oh yeah, I did that'. I don't feel a twinge of contempt the way I do be seeing bands I with members I knew who were in their 20's, suddenly dressed in dayglo colours like the Wiggles, gurning and making bug eyes, hoping to get that pre-teen-friendly 9am Saturday Morning exposure on Video Hits.

I never did this cringey shit, you know?

As such, I'm very well-known in the community without being well-known to the mass public, but, on the other hand, I wasn't poncing like a twat around with stupid hair in ridiculous clothes I'd never normally wear pretending to be playing obviously-unplugged instruments in front of Darryl Summers and Pluckafucking Duck, and that's an acceptable trade-off for me.

Also, I'm not still massively-in-debt to a record company, twenty years down the track, because I took much less upfront money for the tradeoff of only licensing them my band's masters for a set period of years. Meanwhile, every idiot I knew would immediately get a deal, then throw a big party on what they thought was the record company's dime, but was really their dime, to prove that they'd made it to stupid cunts who didn't really like them anyway and were hoping them see them fail.

I'm honestly at the stage in my life that I don't care if anyone hears my songs outside my immediate circle or not. One thing I can say: I'm writing songs that match my age and experience, and I like that.

Hell, look at me doing a couple of film roles a couple of years back. I got a decent amount of attention despite not thinking I was particularly good, and a very rich and famous faggot told me outright that I could go very far in the business if I was willing to be a stud bull.

Obviously, I wasn't willing to whore myself for fame, money and power. Acting itself wasn't that interesting a process, and I grew quickly bored, because it was full of pretentious, incompetent leftist tools, who didn't want to talk about what we were attempting to do, and who obviously thought they were already so talented that nothing required working towards improvement.

Hell, after a few weeks of doing PR, the idea of having to do this constantly, talking to idiots who only wanted you to give the required progressive sound bites, I just could not imagine what kind of broken, desperate-for-attention person would want this to be their entire existence. At least back in the 80's and 90's, you could take the piss out of the music press in an interview and they'd expect it, and could often give it back just as well.

I'm quite happy riding around in the truck with Bill, picking over garbage dumps, collecting old scrap metal and shoveling shit, thank you very much. I don't regret a thing.

See how an Alpha would have gladly-played the game for drugs, beer and pussy? See how by an Alpha's measure, I'd be a failure, where I'm exactly where I choose to be.

[Suits]

It's about time someone started a Suits Appreciation Thread.

Thanks guys.

[philosophical_recovery]

I identify as gamma/sigma fluid.

This thread is literally oppressing me.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

(07-10-2017 05:04 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

The concept of sigma gets a lot of hate. I actually find value in Vox's classification, despite the problem of "omegas" or "gammas" claiming to be a cool sigma from behind the keyboard. The fact is that awkward guys who have successfully implemented self-improvement and are non-conformist are likely to fit the sigma ideal more than alpha. The difference being that alphas actually enjoy engaging in hierarchical social structures, because they can win at it, whereas sigmas don't - they have learned to "win" in a real, non-delusional sense by not participating in the games most others play.

I too have been pretty skeptical of the sigma classification. It's for guys who know they're not alpha, but feel like alpha anyway, because they still think they've got it all together. Of course this sounds exactly like a self deluded omega or gamma sitting behind a keyboard.

However, I think RawGod could be right here. If you know you were previously an omega or a gamma, and you have performed self improvement until you are fit, you have social skills to make friends, network, negotiate good deals, and seduce women, and your career and finances are on point, then you might be a sigma.

A person like this will still never be percieved by the people around them as a true alpha, and although they may have very effective social skills and good circles of friends and business associates, they will never be percieved as exceptionally likeable and charismatic.

Their defining characteristic is that they make exceptional use of their limited social potential. I think guys like this will always be more cynical and more skeptical about the system than naturals.

Both Roosh and Vox Day are like this. Both describe themselves as omegas that figured out analytically how to be winners.

[CynicalContrarian]

Saw something recently along these lines :
Alphas & sigmas are on a scale.

Alphas are the gregarious, extroverted masculine type, while sigmas are the lone-wolf, introverted masculine type

Your mileage may vary.

[Blaster]

Vox's sexual ranks aren't really an identity, they're just a taxonomy.

Also, I think Trump only qualifies as a sigma from a particularly narrow perspective: that of the elite political class and left-wing intelligentsia and bourgeoisie. In most other social hierarchies, Trump qualifies as pure alpha. He's socially dominant, gregarious, quick-witted and sharp, confrontational, educated, and a successful leader of men. He has raw charisma. He's got a New York mouth, which can get him in a bit of trouble outside the east coast, but that's relatively minor.

Anonymous Bosch's description (of Zelcorpion's description) of Sigma aligns much more with what I consider to be a true Sigma. When the average person (delusional liberals excluded) looks at Trump, they see a man who exudes alpha. When most people look at a sigma, they don't see an alpha they see a social reject-- or at least, what should be a social reject in their minds. They'll see a pothead with nothing going for him. Or they'll see an artist who can't seem to follow a normal conversation, or a musician who acts like a hipster faggot annoying the shit out of everybody. Yet they'll be men who have figured out women and parlay their disdain for or subversion of social norms into high quality pussy.

[Blaster]

(07-10-2017 08:50 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Saw something recently along these lines :
Alphas & sigmas are on a scale.

Alphas are the gregarious, extroverted masculine type, while sigmas are the lone-wolf, introverted masculine type

Your mileage may vary.

I'd say Sigma is a human (and therefore complex) variant of the sneaky fucker mating strategy.

Note that "sneaky fucker" is often applied to male feminists. The difference between a sigma and typical male feminists is that the sigma is actually successful. Male feminists and white knights usually fail at getting mates. Huge Schwyzer is an example of a sigma. He eschewed traditional male dominance hierarchies and played the feminist game to get laid, and for him it worked (until he got exposed and had an epic meltdown).

[Comte De St. Germain]

Well lets list off some Sigma negatives shall we.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Self destructive behavior and inherent death wish

Most sigma characters act in such a way contrary to the expectations of the crowd that they go out of their way to put themselves in danger to prove a point at times. It's why they're so blunt generally. Because 700 years ago if the king executed them for causing agitation among the population it'd be their way of winning.

It's not so much like how a gamma wants all the fame of martyrdom and romanticizes it. It's more that they can't help themselves as they end up as martyrs as more of a happenstance.

Guys like Robspierre would be an example of this. Pushing the envelope so far at times with their self-destructive behavior that when given power they would go crazy and cause summary executions to "prove their ideals".

Of course that's a more exceptional case, but nonetheless a possibility. They make excellent revolutionaries but generally terrible rulers or mediocre rulers(exceptions to the rule of course). Betas make both excellent revolutionaries and rulers(See below side note). Alphas are good at everything of course but sigmas beat them at being a revolutionary as they are exceptional at making people find common cause rather than simply using force of personality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-They're not just outsiders because they want to be as it's a result of them being social and anti-social.

They're great at picking up friends and admirers on a moment's notice, but they have very few truly deep friendships. Mainly because they have to view the person as their equal or greater in every respect.

Although this might sound "alpha", it's anything but. Your trademark alpha can inspire loyalty. A sigma is the antithesis of the alpha as very few guys get to truly know them (unlike an alpha who simply is, therefore anyone can get close to them). People try to get close to sigmas as well but those that truly know them either loathe their very existence or are true ride and die friends so there's an inherent self-check in place to prevent that at times. They'll intentionally sabotage certain relationships at times to prevent being hated as they see.

(Side note: The above shouldn't imply they're inauthentic. It's because they're authentic. They're contrarian because they actually believe what they say. A second in command beta on the other hand is actually far more liable to play devil's advocate. But my thoughts on what I consider a beta is a post in and of itself. What guys on the forum called betas are actually deltas, gammas, or omegas. A true beta is the yin to an alpha's yang. More real/pragmatic less force of nature. The Enlightened but Forceful Autocrat/General vs the Philosopher King.

There's a lot of betas on the forum[and that's a compliment if you ask me]. Vox on the other hand likes to reduce them to an alpha's pet when they're anything but. They want to do something but not for the limelight and that's why they're close with alphas as they want to do the same things but for different reasons. Think every millionaire that keeps quiet about it.)

Same thing applies to social situations. They are expedient in their social interactions so their general modus operandi is to be minimalist in their social interaction without appearing so. So they'll post up with a really hot chick by the wall at a party "to chill and enjoy the music". Or greet a bunch of people but make sure that the conversation sticks to 1-2 minute shallow conversations, but most people won't think any of it as they're either too drunk or just happy to be talking to that "cool dude that people really like but kind of does his own thing". They'll sometimes put on a show of sorts that draws a crowd(usually some kind of social situation where they can rant about life more or less or do some kind of sarcastic stand up routine[bad examples but that's more or less getting the point across]) so they can still be well received.

They'll show up to parties uninvited as well.

(Side Note: With the exception of the gamma or delta trying to move up in the world by throwing a house party that just invites everyone they perceive as cool because they want to be cool too.)

[Sub side note: Deltas want to feel cool just to be a cool for a moment because they've always been middle of the food chain forever so it's their moment in the sun. Gammas are wanting to be seen as superior so they throw their party "for the cool people". Think stereotypical, vindictive rich kid in high school or college that people like for his money].

They get let in though as they bring hot chicks and booze so it's all cool in the host's eyes and it would look horrible to turn them away at the door. The guy throwing the party(alpha or higher beta generally) realizes the liability and walking trainwreck coming through their door but can't do anything about it again due to social manipulation. Again all excepting that the host isn't one of their close friends.

So moral of the story. Their personal relationships are hollow and they act anti-social to prevent themselves from being hated with rare exceptions. They're not social outsiders simply because it's expedient, but that they self sabotage instinctively to not hurt themselves. Their close friends are exceptions not the rules because they were more or less the result of a lapse of judgement on their part, but strangely enough those close bonds are also more likely to fade in time if the sigma isn't in the presence of their friends in some form or way.

The positive here in this hit job is that they're also blunt and anti-social because they hate hate what appears to them as hypocrisy and love guys who are true to who they are. They also thrive on conflict so they also love confrontation and create true friendships through that again there's good with the bad.

Nonetheless I also did a rather poor job of explaining as it's actually much more damaging than it appears if you've seen it in real life, but not in the way you might think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They're not just anti-authority they're anti-rules

It's one thing for you a RVF dude that likes doing their own thing. Traveling, fucking lots of women, etc. And yes a good portion of us hate higher authority such as federal power in the United States/FDA/Soros. It's another when you're operating on your own morality so not only do you give a fuck you to the man it's a fuck you to social convention and conventional morality. If they have corrupted moral centers they're no different than con-men.

They'll call up friends at 4 AM to crash on their couches not just once or twice but repetitively and think nothing of it. They'll steal half their girl's drink not just to tease her but because he simply wanted it. They'll shrug and just give her a "What?".

So now imagine the above situations but expanded in scope/effect 20X. It's easy to see how this kind of mentality would go too far.

-They never forgive certain things

You embarrass them excessively, even if unintentional, or make a disparaging statement that they feel is exceptionally insulting. They will NEVER reconcile. They'll hold that slight till death.

Honor wouldn't be the correct term if you ask me. But slighting their honor even if you apologize is an unforgivable sin.

Same thing with whatever they perceive as stupidity. If they label someone as a stupid ass/full of shit, they'll tear them down at whatever chance they get. It takes a lot of convincing to talk them out of it.

Very rarely are they wrong about the person or thing in question though. They have a very keen sense of intuition.

Corollary: They will always apologize and admit fault if they're ever wrong about something like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Dogmatism cloaked in good logic and reason:

They're logical and reasonable, but they always without fail are adamant about one or two things in their worldview. This is where the intuition tends to fail them. They're willing to rationalize things away if it runs contrary to that one thing.

They'll dogmatically attack anything like a raging beast if it runs contrary to those opinions. It's the fastest way to get on a sigma's bad side or get labelled as an enemy or an idiot.

Their worldview is far more malleable than the other types nonetheless though.

Corollary: That one thing also goes through revisions and might transform to another thing given enough time. It's also the key to understanding the sigma's true personality in. I.E. Their nature in question and the personality of the sigma in question.

That's all I can think of at the top of my head at the moment. Feel free to add on more.

Edit: Notable sigmas: Maximilian Robespierre, 2Pac, Thomas Jefferson, Ernest Hemingway, Napoleon Bonaparte, 50 Cent, Gang Starr(both Guru and Premier), Bruce Lee, Mike Tyson, Theodore Roosevelt, James Dean, Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Frederick the Great, Pyhrrus of Epirus, Niccolo Machiavelli, Alexander the Great, Catiline, Vladimir Lenin(no he's not an Omega, Gamma, or whatever you guys like to call him lets be apolitical for once here), Atilla the Hun, Peter the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Suleiman the Magnificent, Tamerlane, and Genghis Khan(take a look at the clusterfuck that was Mongol succession that shit bred Sigmas like a factory) to name a few. Tamerlane and Genghis Khan are I think are the most pure form of sigma to have ever existed.