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Quote: (12-26-2017 08:49 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Gammas honestly remind me of INTPs (Introverted Thinking dominant, autistic people). I'm pretty sure Vox Day is an INTP considering his incessant need to define definitions and really odd hobbies like Japanese metal rock.

Vox clearly displays some Gamma traits if you've been following him for awhile and paying attention. As you say, the disproportionate rage he exhibited over being trolled on Gab is clear Gamma.

I'm an INTP and while there is tendency to get caught up in defining things with precision, there's also a tendency to second guess yourself which is linked to humility. You are very aware as an INTP that you may have missed something and gotten it all wrong.

MBTI and Vox Day's hierarchy are not precise and are just a tool for categorising. I think equating INTPs with Gammas is wrong, but some INTPs do have the potential for Gamma behaviour

From wikipedia's entry on INTPs:
Quote:wikipedia Wrote:

Inferior: Extraverted feeling (Fe)
As their inferior function, Feeling can be a weak point; when threatened they will hide behind a wall of stoic logic. This can lead them to bottle up their emotions to preserve reason and harmony; but a failure to deal with these concealed emotions can lead to inappropriate outbursts.

From other INTPs I've met, only a fraction are Gammas, so I think INTP=Gamma is woefully inaccurate.

Quote:Quote:

In terms of Gammas getting created by single moms - again, I wonder how much of that is genetic.

...

So question:

do gamma dads genetically produce gamma kids?
and do alpha/sigma dads genetically produce alpha/sigma kids?
can all of Alpha/Sigma/Omega/Gamma/Beta/Delta be explained by Jungian type?

I definitely believe a large amount of our temperament/personalities is genetic, but your life experiences and mental conditioning can change how you are socially and what your patterns of thought are like. Narcissism is learned for instance.

If you're brought up right or are lucky enough to identify your weaknesses and work on them then you're unlikely to end up Gamma.

MBTI is just another tool of categorizing and doesn't match up Alpha/Gamma/Delta etc any more than childhood attachment classifications do (eg insecure/secure/ambivalent/disorganised)
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^ I'm not sold on the Myer Briggs test. Personally, I will always test as an INTP, INTJ or the male faggot personality type of INFJ - I think it's probably more accurate for women than it is for men. Every year we're forced to develop and grow as men which makes it tougher to answer the questions in a consistent manner one month to the next.
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Quote: (12-26-2017 05:22 PM)britchard Wrote:  

...then the gamma will enter the group and may even rise to be the leader. This is where gammas are at their worst. They are vindicated in their self-elevated delusional state of mind, and the deltas may believe that he is an alpha for at least a short period of time, but eventually the gamma will always be found out.

This is what I call, and encourage others ( even outside the manosphere) to call a "Nasa Test Pilot". This is an observation that I have both seen play out, and discussed with others many times in real life, and the perfect term for it arose right on this very forum.

Your whole post reflects things exactly as I have observed them over 20+ years, and for that, a +1 to you sir.

Quote: (01-19-2016 11:26 PM)ordinaryleastsquared Wrote:  
I stand by my analysis.
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Quote: (12-27-2017 06:29 AM)Tex Cruise Wrote:  

Quote: (12-26-2017 05:22 PM)britchard Wrote:  

...then the gamma will enter the group and may even rise to be the leader. This is where gammas are at their worst. They are vindicated in their self-elevated delusional state of mind, and the deltas may believe that he is an alpha for at least a short period of time, but eventually the gamma will always be found out.

This is what I call, and encourage others ( even outside the manosphere) to call a "Nasa Test Pilot". This is an observation that I have both seen play out, and discussed with others many times in real life, and the perfect term for it arose right on this very forum.

Your whole post reflects things exactly as I have observed them over 20+ years, and for that, a +1 to you sir.

NTP is probably the most perfect example you can get of the manipulative gamma I spoke about in my post, which I will call the high-functioning gamma.

He was shielded behind a screen online, and I suspect if he ever attended a meet-up he would have been found out pretty quickly (I'm talking less than half an hour), unless he was clever enough to disguise himself as a delta to gain entrance to the group, only to reveal his true side later. However I don't think NTP would have been able to resist grandiose statements and stories long enough for that.

But online, his facade was very strong, and lots of people fell for it. You even saw how some senior members didn't want to believe how it was all bs (he rose to be leader), and a sigma low rep/low post member had to call him out (gamma always gets found out in the end). Sigmas hunt Gammas.

Had Roosh not banned NTP pretty quickly, we would have observed him lashing out, with most of his fury directed at the sigma (who slips back in to the shadows) and then at the first few members to turn on him.

The problem is that it is very hard for the majority of us to understand the mentality of extremely delusional gammas such as NTP. He genuinely thinks that you should think of him as wise and clever for having copied and pasted a response to a question, as he was clever enough to find the answer, and well no-one else has done that so they must be stupid.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a correlation between being a schizophrenic (either in the sense of multiple personalities, or hearing voices) and being a gamma.
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Quote: (12-26-2017 08:49 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Quote: (12-26-2017 04:33 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I'm INTJ as well as Sigma. Is it possible the two are related and/or highly correlated?

That's been my thought as well. It seems a lot of what's been about Sigmas actually describe the Introverted Intuition (Ni) dominant types.

I was initially considering Introversion as the commonality when I read both your posts earlier, because although Bill can be outgoing, he needs his time alone, the way I do.

However, Bill's a definite ISTP. Christmas Day was the first time in a year I hadn't seen him without his pliers hanging out of his back pocket, and his workshop is room after room of Doc Brown-style jury-rigging, (despite him having Rick Sanchez's mouth).

So, our conversations often involve me pointing out what I identify as a problem based on mental consideration of abstract possibilities, and him immediately fixing it, because you don't fuck around talking once you could be doing.

This is how we can go from me saying "This is why you need a wall here" to having one up within an hour from pieces of scrap steel and iron that are lying around his shed and yard. Other people are playing 'Fallout': I'm living it. I've got to say it's addictive.

Whilst ISTP's have Sigma sounding traits, (often socially crude, choosing to make things worse / consequences be damned, an innate sense of fairness), I recognise the first two could be me if I didn't temper those instincts.

However, that doesn't explain my Sigma mate who died a couple of years back. Definite ESFP: there was nothing he loved more than an audience and usually could entertain an entire room at any party, which, naturally drove all the Alphas up the wall but the thought they were boring anyway. Eye for design and impeccable fashion sense. Yet, the lack of interest in gaining genuine social status; always choosing to make the situation worse; the suspicion about other people which led to bouts of paranoia that people had it in for him; and teaching me swear words I didn't even know existed.

So, on Christmas Day, when Bill was blurting out "Jesus Christ Shit On A Donkey's Dick", delivered in one breath as one syllable, I immediately flashed back to my ESFP mate in high school, coming out of the principle's office, machine-gunning "Fuck that slut bitch mother mole nazi" in exactly the same fashion, and remembered my preference for similar machine-gunned insults at that age: "Go suck farts out of dead cats you mealy-mouthed pooh-jabbing prick."

I can temper that Sigma need to offend now. I can't guarantee that's not a just a trait of more verbally-orientated Sigmas. Other types might be just as likely to whip it out and piss on a cop's boot.

He was definitely extroverted. Always looking for the party and the after party and the recovery party. His need for people never ended.

That being said, I think the Introversion personalities are harder to type because it can be easy to mistake them for extroverts. Most people would probably assume I am one or the other if they only see that part of me.

Earlier this year, I was working manual labour and had to duck into the Optometrists to pick up a new prescription. It was lunch time and one of the younger guys was in the truck with me at the time I got the text, so he tagged along. As I tried the glasses out, I ran my usual game on the office girls without thinking, and the banter was flying quickly and everyone was having a good time, to the extent the girls kept trying to continue the conversation each time I made for the door.

After we left the office and climbed in the truck, he turned and stared right at me.

"What?" I said.

Accusatory tone: "Well aren't you the charming motherfucker?"

"I can be," I said.

"You're this stone faced bastard most of the time, but just like that you had all the girls in that place hanging on your every word. I've never seen anything like it."

Which was obvious to me, because, the guy constantly fucked up my rhythms, obviously thinking "Hey, they laughed at his joke, so if i keep remaking that one same joke, they'll keep laughing", so we were now 90 seconds and 16 lines of dialogue ahead of him when he'd blurt out what we'd obviously-moved past.

Worse still, he even quoted a movie line at one stage in a stupid voice.

Still he kept prodding me, until I ended it with "I can be fucking charming. It's just that most of the time, I don't want to be."

That's a Sigma statement, if there ever was one.

When we got back to the worksite, they were still having lunch, and the guy immediately had to breathlessly tell everyone about the effect I'd had on the office girls. Over and over: "You should have seen This Charming Motherfucker right here..." which is how I ended up being nicknamed 'TCM' by the crew.

The thing was, it wasn't anything spectacular at all. It was bog-standard game and I was only talking, not trying to land any of them. It made me wonder if the guy had ever had a non-awkward conversation with a girl in his life.

At least he wasn't Gamma, or he would have tried to destroy me after seeing that. How dare I trick those women into ignoring him?
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We have some smart folks in this thread. This whole Alpha, beta, omega, Sigma, gamma taxonomy is being brought to the surface. We all develop cognitive preferences (i.e. How you process and share information about the world). You're trapped by these preferences. It's a core part of who you are.

If you take something like the Myers Briggs and then apply it across society and see the divisions, the groupings, and the outlier/rare types... game will make a lot more sense.

"Birds of a feather"
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Quote: (12-27-2017 08:08 AM)britchard Wrote:  

Re: NTP
But online, his facade was very strong, and lots of people fell for it. You even saw how some senior members didn't want to believe how it was all bs (he rose to be leader), and a sigma low rep/low post member had to call him out (gamma always gets found out in the end). Sigmas hunt Gammas.

No. I hunted that Gamma for months. Nasa Test Pilot was publicly-called out in that reveal thread by Nasa Test Pilot.

Nasa Test Pilot's biggest defenders against Nasa Test Pilot's accusations of plagiarism against Nasa Test Pilot were Nasa Test Pilot and Nasa Test Pilot.

My Sigma inability to temper my disgust for such Gamma Bullshit almost got me banned a couple of times by Roosh, but I have learnt there seems to be a Sigma Disgust Threshold for Gamma Bullshit, where it's so appalling and broken you wonder why someone would go to all that trouble just for measly crumbs of attention. (My Stepdad pushed me past that threshold two days ago, to the point I still can't write about it just yet).

So, NTP is still logging in here, under a variety of aliases. I just am too revolted by him to call him out publicly any more.
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I first thoughts you guys were talking out of your ass here, but this is actually pretty interesting stuff.

Love the dedication as well.

How did you learn all of this information?
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Quote: (12-28-2017 09:52 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I first thoughts you guys were talking out of your ass here, but this is actually pretty interesting stuff.

Love the dedication as well.

How did you learn all of this information?

Make friends with a demon in training.

No, I'm not kidding in the least. I'm about 99% certain that's what these people become on the other side.
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Quote: (12-28-2017 12:39 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2017 09:52 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I first thoughts you guys were talking out of your ass here, but this is actually pretty interesting stuff.

Love the dedication as well.

How did you learn all of this information?

Make friends with a demon in training.

No, I'm not kidding in the least. I'm about 99% certain that's what these people become on the other side.

It would be interesting to determine exactly which demon he would serve under.

There are many many taxonomies of demons, so there will be no end to the speculation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_demons

For now I am going to go with the demon Astaroth.


[Image: 220px-Astaroth.jpg]

Quote:Quote:

Dutch demonologist Johann Weyer also described Astaroth in his Pseudomonarchia Daemonum (1577) thus: "Astaroth is a great and a strong duke, coming forth in the shape of a foul angel, sitting upon an infernal dragon, and carrying on his right hand a viper", who also claimed to rule 40 legions, and had to be approached by the conjurer with a magical ring on account of his stinking breath.

Quote:Quote:

According to Sebastien Michaelis, he is a demon of the First Hierarchy, who seduces by means of laziness, self-doubt, and rationalized philosophies.

Quote:Quote:

According to Francis Barrett (c. 1801), Astaroth is the prince of accusers and inquisitors.

Also, we should not forget that Astaroth, while male, was named after a goddess, thus fulfilling the male using female tactics aspect of the gamma.

Actually, she looks pretty creepy herself.

[Image: 220px-Statuette_Goddess_Louvre_AO20127.jpg]

Starting to get the willies here. Aurini, you may be more onto something than you know with the demon reference.

Think I will take a break from demons and pagan goddesses with no mouths for the rest of the day.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
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Quote: (12-28-2017 07:22 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 08:08 AM)britchard Wrote:  

Re: NTP
But online, his facade was very strong, and lots of people fell for it. You even saw how some senior members didn't want to believe how it was all bs (he rose to be leader), and a sigma low rep/low post member had to call him out (gamma always gets found out in the end). Sigmas hunt Gammas.

No. I hunted that Gamma for months. Nasa Test Pilot was publicly-called out in that reveal thread by Nasa Test Pilot.

Nasa Test Pilot's biggest defenders against Nasa Test Pilot's accusations of plagiarism against Nasa Test Pilot were Nasa Test Pilot and Nasa Test Pilot.

My Sigma inability to temper my disgust for such Gamma Bullshit almost got me banned a couple of times by Roosh, but I have learnt there seems to be a Sigma Disgust Threshold for Gamma Bullshit, where it's so appalling and broken you wonder why someone would go to all that trouble just for measly crumbs of attention. (My Stepdad pushed me past that threshold two days ago, to the point I still can't write about it just yet).

So, NTP is still logging in here, under a variety of aliases. I just am too revolted by him to call him out publicly any more.

That's very interesting. You're sure it's him? If he is a true gamma he will reveal himself sooner or later.
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Quote: (12-28-2017 02:58 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2017 12:39 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2017 09:52 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I first thoughts you guys were talking out of your ass here, but this is actually pretty interesting stuff.

Love the dedication as well.

How did you learn all of this information?

Make friends with a demon in training.

No, I'm not kidding in the least. I'm about 99% certain that's what these people become on the other side.

It would be interesting to determine exactly which demon he would serve under.

There are many many taxonomies of demons, so there will be no end to the speculation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_demons

For now I am going to go with the demon Astaroth.


[Image: 220px-Astaroth.jpg]

Quote:Quote:

Dutch demonologist Johann Weyer also described Astaroth in his Pseudomonarchia Daemonum (1577) thus: "Astaroth is a great and a strong duke, coming forth in the shape of a foul angel, sitting upon an infernal dragon, and carrying on his right hand a viper", who also claimed to rule 40 legions, and had to be approached by the conjurer with a magical ring on account of his stinking breath.

Quote:Quote:

According to Sebastien Michaelis, he is a demon of the First Hierarchy, who seduces by means of laziness, self-doubt, and rationalized philosophies.

Quote:Quote:

According to Francis Barrett (c. 1801), Astaroth is the prince of accusers and inquisitors.

Also, we should not forget that Astaroth, while male, was named after a goddess, thus fulfilling the male using female tactics aspect of the gamma.

Actually, she looks pretty creepy herself.

[Image: 220px-Statuette_Goddess_Louvre_AO20127.jpg]

Starting to get the willies here. Aurini, you may be more onto something than you know with the demon reference.

Think I will take a break from demons and pagan goddesses with no mouths for the rest of the day.

Looking into this stuff tends to attract their attention; wise as serpents and innocent and doves doesn't mean ignorant, but be cautious how deep you go. At some point, you know enough about evil to avoid it.

Some scholars have argued that demons are exclusively fallen angels, but the name "Judas" has come up during excorcism. I'm inclined to the opinion that Hell doesn't have distinct classifications of beings in the way that Earth and Heaven do - after all, they're in rebellion against the basic premises of Truth (A is A as Rand would say).

When we speak about the Gamma - *is* the Gamma a single person? AB just illustrated the Gamma morphing into several different people during a single meal. What makes you think that the legions of Hell have distinct and comprehensive ranks?

You find the same problem with mental illness. Somebody once asked me if I'd ever have a "Final Theory" of insanity; but by definition, such a thing is impossible. Identify a mental illness - and the illness shifts into something else. It doesn't want to be identified, it just wants to screw with you.

Name the demon, exorcise it, and them move on with your life. Don't question the "Why?" too deeply - there is no answer but the abyss.

All of that said, I may pick up a copy of that manual you listed. It sounds quite useful.
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I KNEW this thread was making me gamma.

It was supposed to be about sigmas, but LOOK what happened.

What ALWAYS happens.

EVERYONE will pay for this.

^
^
I never said that.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
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It's alright AB everyone on this forum is NASA Test Pilot including me. You've just stumbled on a giant idiosyncratic self-delusion and conspiracy theory.

"Until the day when God shall deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words,— 'Wait and hope'."- Alexander Dumas, "The Count of Monte Cristo"

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What a thread! AB, you've outdone yourself as was my hope in starting it (see the sigma, [Image: wink.gif]). Thank you for your input, as always.

I am trying to digest all of the new stuff to come up since Xmas here. What a wealth of info!

Have my own ideas as to how Sigmas are generated that haven't yet been fully expressed here, but fuck there's a lot of food for thought. Intense therapy has contributed boatloads to getting my head around all this & I owe this board some more vulnerability & constructive thoughts.
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Quote: (12-28-2017 07:22 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 08:08 AM)britchard Wrote:  

Re: NTP
But online, his facade was very strong, and lots of people fell for it. You even saw how some senior members didn't want to believe how it was all bs (he rose to be leader), and a sigma low rep/low post member had to call him out (gamma always gets found out in the end). Sigmas hunt Gammas.

No. I hunted that Gamma for months. Nasa Test Pilot was publicly-called out in that reveal thread by Nasa Test Pilot.

Nasa Test Pilot's biggest defenders against Nasa Test Pilot's accusations of plagiarism against Nasa Test Pilot were Nasa Test Pilot and Nasa Test Pilot.

My Sigma inability to temper my disgust for such Gamma Bullshit almost got me banned a couple of times by Roosh, but I have learnt there seems to be a Sigma Disgust Threshold for Gamma Bullshit, where it's so appalling and broken you wonder why someone would go to all that trouble just for measly crumbs of attention. (My Stepdad pushed me past that threshold two days ago, to the point I still can't write about it just yet).

So, NTP is still logging in here, under a variety of aliases. I just am too revolted by him to call him out publicly any more.

You are not the first member to make me aware of this, with solid reasoning & examples also.

And my sigma tendencies see me at an all time high in terms of warning levels right now. So I'm right there with you on that, & trying not to drink when I RVF.

I'd hate to have to come up with another username like Base Jump Bill or some shit.

[Image: wink.gif]
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Quote: (12-28-2017 06:59 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

It's alright AB everyone on this forum is NASA Test Pilot including me. You've just stumbled on a giant idiosyncratic self-delusion and conspiracy theory.

It's Ancient History man: I explained why one of them was NTP 18 months ago. I explained why the other was also the first guy about 14 months ago. Both times, with evidence [such as one of them posting their fantasy dream of living the exact lifestyle NTP claimed to be living - down to the exact type of craft - on a sailing forum in 2009] and psychological explanation: the Gamma's incessant desire to be perceived as the AMOG and the narcissistic fury that evidences itself when his status isn't recognised.

If I was going to be paranoid and going into vast conspiracy theories, you'd see something more along the lines of this:

The multiple user names that always turn out to be nautical references, obscure marinas and quays or sailing equipment manufacturers are ways for Intelligence Assets to readily-identify each other via the consultation of a code sheet. A few years ago, I would have thought Agents were more psychologically-sound, but after Egg McMuffin and the FBI Agent trying to frame Trump who talked like a teenage girl, it's possible the intelligence community is converged and employing Gammas, who are natural Socialists.

Agent or agents would pretend to be multiple users most-likely 'vetting' each other to increase forum trust and target members of interest, or to gang up and demand ballers 'prove' their worth. The pattern seems to suggest SE Asia and the Philippines as consistent areas of interest, and it's most like financial and cryptocurrency that is being investigated.

Say, I've got a great deal for you, if you keep it on the downlow. Hey, I want to buy Gold Membership for some users, but I don't have the ability to purchase it due to X. Hey, would you mind transferring some cash for me? Hey, would you mind buying me some Bitcoin?

Which members might even move illegal substances across international borders on cruising boats, for the right payoff?

And if someone was noticing these patterns, and speaking-publicly about them, would they be approached privately, for no apparent reason, both times by members others have privately-theorised to them were involved in the intelligence community, under the pretense of a casual friendliness that barely-disguised an obvious fishing for information to find out exactly what was known, then wouldn't it make more sense for that someone to play dumb and pretend they hadn't noticed anything at all, and say they'd decided to dismiss the whole thing away as 'probably autism' and nothing more.

Purely speaking hypothetically, of course. I mean, it's so obviously Gamma.

All I'm concerned about here is accurately-breaking down what Gamma and Sigma are. Bringing up NTP was just confusing the situation because that wasn't a Sigma takedown of Gamma, that was a Gamma burning it all down to build his next NTP up. We need accurate data here.
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NTP was a very interesting character. He got on everyone's radar because he tried to explain things too perfectly. His argumentum ad wall of text only works until you start hitting topics that forum members are well-versed in. His "i'm 50+ years old and walk around at 5% bodyfat year round" schtick stuck out like a sore thumb.

I remember he sent me this insanely long rant about how he wanted to help the men of this forum and would resort to certain "things" if he felt he was being threatened. [Image: icon_lol.gif]

Don't get me wrong. I like to pop off about shit I know nothing about either, but when you push the wall of bullshit too far, you get called on your bluff.

I actually do agree with AB. There are a few guys who post now who seriously ping my radar, but they disappear the second people start to catch on to the fact that they might be NTP. I'm sure you all know who I'm talking about. Just look for that idiosyncratic sprawling wall of text that seems to say everything and nothing. Suggest something and suggest nothing.

I've long since sorta let it go because I can see it's sorta silly to a lot of people, but he does still lurk here.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
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Quote: (12-29-2017 02:41 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Just look for that idiosyncratic sprawling wall of text that seems to say everything and nothing. Suggest something and suggest nothing.

That's one of the tells. The weird absence in the writing when he's pretending to be anything but a Gamma in full Fisking Fury. The void where there should be a personality, or a truly personal observation on the topic. It's like a teacher dryly-reading an info dump from a textbook and expecting applause from the class.

At least the Gamma, trying to prove he's right, quote after quote after quote, is flawed in a recognizably-human way. That 'everything and nothing' you speak of? That's bloody creepy. It's flat affect, but in written form.

I'll have some dinner then I'd better fire off the Stepdad incident.
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Flying Fisks of Fury: the unstory of NTP.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
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I was joking mate and kind of referencing how those PUAhate guys thought we were all Rob Wiser(I believe G-Man, Fisto, McQueen, and Giovonny they believed to be the same person).

Also NTP's writing just felt completely off. Concurred on that.

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Quote: (12-29-2017 03:01 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

I'll have some dinner then I'd better fire off the Stepdad incident.

Great. I've been looking forward to this for days.

By the way, your stories comparing the behavior of alphas, sigmas, gammas, and omegas have been very interesting, but it would be nice to see how a beta fits into the mix sometime.

Traditionally, the player community tended to lump everyone into either the alpha or beta category, so it would be interesting to see how you describe the beta in this broader spectrum.

I'm the King of Beijing!
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To quote that deceased Sigma friend of mine whenever he had News with a Capital N: (Sharp intake of breath) "... WELL!"

Bill and I spent a good 15 hours the other day clearing up the Housing Commission property that my Gamma Friend was leasing, before he abandoned his son and took off for the Northern Territory. (His reason for doing so is pure Gamma and a story in itself).

This involved multiple three-wheeled cars on blocks; garden sheds full to the brim of pizza boxes; couches left out in the rain; weeds above my shoulders; feral kittens seemingly-fired out of kitty cannons shooting past us every few seconds; and discovering fungi forests under mouldy mattresses. We were so tired by the end of the day that, after taking turns having showers where the water turned black, we both lay down on the two couches in the lounge for a break, and, well, didn't wake up until the next morning.

My girlfriend had thrown blankets over each of us. "You both looked so tired that I didn't have the heart to wake you."

On Christmas Day, when Bill and I arranged to do the job, my Stepfather had big noted himself to all and sundry about how "we" (meaning him as leader) could knock off the job "in no time", and saying how it would help The Kid. Unfortunately, when we rang him on the day, he made excuses about how vitally important it was that he sorted out something hobby-related that morning, but he'd be over later.

"Is it his toy cars, or his toy helicopters, or his little bow and arrows?" Bill sneered. Due to the forced proximity over the Christmas break, my stepdad's Gamma Bullshit had really gotten on both our nerves, and even Bill was able to see it everywhere.

"Notice he can't just buy a beginner bow and arrow. It has to be the bestest piece of equipment that was ever bested."

I nodded. "$1500 before you even know if you like the hobby."

"$1500 and you don't even fuckin' hunt with it. They shoot Foam Animals." He made a hand wanking motion.

I can shrug that off though. I'm used to Gamma. I knew an out of control one who lived in Brisbane who would constantly brag about his special computer gear that he only got through his close, personal contacts in Silicon Valley that even if you wanted one you couldn't buy because it wasn't released to the public yet and it might be years away for mere mortals like you. The guy was proud the other Bikers had given him the nickname 'TF', never learning it stood for 'That Fucking Kevin', which is how, with a curled lip, anyone ever referred to him as.

I can see, however, that Bill is still in the "What is this shit?" stage, where he's trying to make sense of Gamma's behaviour, and, being Sigma, his contempt was growing the more he thought about it.

"Like, why the fuck does he have three computer monitors? Fuck man, he's not that fucking important."

I chuckled to myself, because, he's observing all this on his own.

"And..." he continued, "Have you noticed he's always the star of every story he tells? Like you'll tell me a funny story about your girlfriend, or The Kid's dickhead dad, or your hot sister." Ash flick. "You know your sister is hot right?"

"... and I want to poke your daughter." (She's 30, and I do). "Get to the point."

"Look, yesterday, he's telling me about all his trips overseas, and everything is about how he saved the day, or everyone would have been lost if it wasn't for him. It's the prawns all over again. You should get your hot sister to make him a little superhero cape."

"Even she sees it. She calls it 'What he wishes happened'."

"Ah yeah, so he's telling me about driving on those highways where the speed limit's 150 miles an hour, but it was all so easy for him, even though the car was a left hand drive and he'd never driven on the opposite side of the road before, and how if a faster car is coming up behind you in the middle lane, you head left or right to let them past.... blah fucking blah... and the whole time, I'm thinking 'yeah, and you were sitting in the back seat the entire time as someone else drove the bloody thing'."

I laughed as I clicked my fingers. "Spot on, mate."

So, you can see how Bill's Sigma Disgust for Gamma has been gradually coming to a boil even before the morning after he didn't show up when there was hard, dirty work to be done

Which is why when my girlfriend came out with cups of tea for both of us and pulled the front curtains, her telling us that "Your stepdad's truck is outside," made Bill and I both groan simultaneously.

"I'll make him a quick coffee, but I don't want him hugging me," she said, resolutely, "I'll leave it on the kitchen bench and then I'm going to have a long shower."

Bill and I shook the sleep out of our heads then picked up our teas, grabbed the extra cup after it was poured and headed out to the back verandah. My Stepdad is a loud talker, (because he's trapped in a cycle of being too loud because he's being ignored and being ignored because he's being too loud), so it's always best to move him outside, where the sound isn't echoing off every wall.

He came around the corner, looking surprised to see us, but I just said, trying to set a lower volume on his speaker: "The Kid's still asleep."

Fat chance.

"I need to borrow your chainsaw," he said, dropping down next to me. He's got his own chainsaw but Bill happened to mention the great deal I got to him on a better chainsaw than his before Christmas, so, once again, only the best.

We talked for a few minutes, and I explained how the house had been cleaned up yesterday so The Kid shouldn't have any problem with the housing commission. "I just figure I'll take him in. It's not his fault his dad is a dickhead. In a way, I'm continuing Mum's tradition of collecting strays. She always said we were responsible for those around us."

Now, you have to understand, my Stepdad is Gamma, so he's anything but Christian and Vocal about it. (Aurini knows where this is going: "Flying spaghetti monster! Imaginary Sky Fairy! It's a crutch for the weak!" etc. Every time he rolls of these rehearsed spiels off like it's the first time his audience has heard him tell it, or is interested in his opinion on religion to begin with).

It did get to me a while back, so I'd dryly floated the opinion that, given the cross-cultural, seemingly-worldwide belief in some kind of God or God figures, maybe Atheists simply had some form of Spiritual Autism. He looked like someone had slapped him.

So knowing all this, my ears immediately pricked up when he said "You're doing the Christian thing."

This is new.

He continued. "... I'll probably be doing it myself soon." (Note the qualifier... probably... which he'd be using to start the script he wants to write in his head.

I recognised girly "Will I / Won't I Tell" Bait again, but didn't take it, so the conversation drifted on to spiritual matters, which I've never heard him talk about before, other than in the militantly-negative, so I was curious, but I could already predict the solution to the change of heart: his 'mysterious visitor' from Christmas Eve must be religious.

The conversation was much as you'd expect. He was trying to talk on a topic he obviously had no true belief for. Now he was saying how 'nasty' atheists were, and how they'd become 'a cult in themselves'.

This isn't his opinion, I thought. He's heard someone else's opinion and thought it sounded like something a smart person would say, so he's repeating it.

That he swerved into 'how he'd been reading Greek Philosophy' and how much he had learned from it spiritually.

And then I recognized what he was saying, because I remember having a conversation one night with my sister when he was in the room, where I said how I'd been reading my friend Quintus' translation of Cicero and was struck by how often it seemed in sync with Christianity. (Which is why I asked Quintus if he'd be kind enough to recite the Prayer To St Michael in Latin for my Sister).

My stepdad, basically, had quietly-listened, took it in, then rehearsed this to re-deliver like it was his own idea. Basically, he was trying to strike my pose, like it was his own and that I wouldn't notice).

I casually called his bluff. "I have some books a friend translated if you're interested in reading further. The translations are w..."

Too fast. "...No-I-don't-need-them-I-was-reading-them-online."

Bill smirked to himself behind my Stepdad's back as he rolled a cigarette.

My Stepdad went on. "... and they helped a lot after your Mum died." (She passed away eight years ago after going into a coma on Christmas Day). "This is always a bad time of year, and I just don't know what I should do."

"How so?"

"Well, what do I do with your life now?" Teary eyes. Bill had his mouth hanging open behind my Stepdad's head.

"Live." To me it's really not any more complicated than that. Whilst I'm not unsympathetic, she died eight years ago, and we knew it was coming for seven years. I can keep my shit together about it, and I knew her a lot longer than he did. Besides, it's hard to take this kind of grief seriously when someone was inquiring about the possibility of chocolate biscuits with his coffee five minutes earlier.

I explained that I found the process of looking after her immensely-rewarding: that by her returning to the child state I got to repay the debt of her burden of care during my childhood; that it was a good education to not have time to focus on only myself and my wants for so long; and that it was an honour to walk alongside someone on their final journey to get them where they needed to go, understanding you have to make the journey back alone, which, in turn, strengthens you and makes you understand death is a natural part of life, a completion of a cycle, rather than something to be feared.

Bill shot me a thumbs up, but my Stepdad obviously didn't listen to a word of it, because he immediately changed the subject, and, almost instinctively, I knew he was going to spill the beans.

He explained about his friend Bobbi from the Archery Club, and how they were such good friends with each other, and could tell each other anything, and how they have coffees and chats together each week, and how she's currently having treatment for her cancer, but how it's good because then she understands what he's dealing with with losing my mother and they usually end up crying on each other's shoulders.

Yeah, I know this one, he's basically her girlfriend, and doesn't understand it.

Of course, I immediately thought to myself "I think her facing a slow death by cancer is a little more serious than you feeling a little bit sad now."

"Why does this always happen to me?" he said.

I know that one too. The Teenage Gamma friend used to say that one all the fucking time.

I, very tactfully, suggested that perhaps going through what he did with my mother has given him the coping skills and resilience to make him strong enough to be able to be a rock for her to lean on in the face of such difficult and scary circumstances.

No, it's all about him.

"No, we can hold each other and cry together because we're so close."

... whatever that means in Gamma World...

Remember, this is a 58-year-old man.

I, very less tactfully, suggested that women prefer their men to be emotionally-strong to allow them to be weak and talk about their problems, "given what she's facing."

Bill nodded, then said "And you can have a beer and ignore them as they do, and they'll still love you for it."

My stepdad deflected again. "She's worried about her son..."

... so she has a kid...

"... and her husband doesn't know how to handle things at the moment... she can't talk to him the way she talks to me..."

OH FUCK.

"... so maybe they need some time away from him. She told me on Christmas Eve, we were standing out the front and we talked and cried and supported each other so much. I know [his Mum] was inside, but when she said 'Aren't you going to show me around?' I took her inside and gave her the tour."

Bill threw both hands up in the air.

Do I jump to the higher branch?

I was starting to think about exactly why he was crying on her shoulder, and what he was saying as he did so, but the picture was still forming.

"... so maybe they'll stay with me for a bit. It's the Christian thing to do. Like you taking in [The Kid]."

As Bill said later, "The fucking hide of that cunt.... trying to make out he's doing it from the goodness of his heart like you are. The difference being you're not trying to slip The Kid a length."

I can instantly see he's ready to break the promise he's made to both my mother and sister about the house for the chance of some (admittedly dying) pussy.

Fuck this.

"You know," I said. I think that's a wonderful idea."

He smiled, so I continued.

"Think about it. You've been through the process with Mum and so know she's dealing with and how to handle the hospitals and chemo, and, well, if her husband is struggling with how to process this, you should move him in too. There's enough room. Maybe the gift Mum taught you as she died was the blessing of strength, and you could use that strength to keep that family together for the child's sake. Jesus would be proud."

He stammered, uhm ahh umm ahh, desperately trying to find a way out of that.

Fuck you, you creepy cunt. The woman is dying, for fuck's sake, and her emotional world is turned upside down and he's only thinking about proving what a nice, selfless guy he is enough that she throws him a fuck.

And then it occurred to me: this is exactly what he did with my mother. She was having a hell of a time with Dad, the marriage was crumbling, and she took my Sister and I and fled the home with nothing but the clothes on our backs. Then, suddenly, my Stepdad was always around and always in our faces, which is why I ended up running away from home for about eight months, because I couldn't stand the guy, and didn't want a new Dad.

My mother later told me "I was dealing with so much at the time, and trying to start a new life and figure out how to look after you two. The last thing I needed was this guy hanging around me, pressuring me for a relationship, but he wouldn't go away. He was always there trying to help even when I didn't want him there. I just wanted time to think and sort myself out." Apparently they didn't consummate the relationship for five years, and he didn't mind.

Now I could see that's he's targeting another emotionally-vulnerable woman on the verge of breaking up with her husband in exactly the same manner.

... but it gets even worse...

Now he was really-teary eyed and said "Why does this always happen to me?" (Note he's the focus, not her cancer).

Trying to be polite whilst really fucking annoyed I said, "I don't think life has it in for you."

Of course, I immediately thought back to the standard manosphere line on women complaining about their procession of lousy boyfriends: "You know the commonality here is you."

Gang: if you think we've hit bottom, no, we're still going down.

"No, you don't understand. Lena..."

... was a workmate who had a new baby, and whom he'd constantly go on about how 'comfortable' she felt breastfeeding around him and she'd just flop it out like 'nothing was wrong' and because anyone listening felt awkward and uncomfortable and immediately changed the subject, he'd think he hadn't been heard, so he'd keep bringing it up, again and again, to the extent my sister said "He sounds so creepy when he won't stop talking about her breastfeeding" and then a mutual friend said "Oh, so you've heard the titty story too? It's so obvious that he's jealous of the baby getting to suck on her funbags."

"... Lena and I were going to be a couple..."

No you weren't.

"... even though she had Cancer..."

What the fuck?

"She was having problems with her ex-husband. He was violent and threatening her and the baby and then she got sick. We were always crying together about it. She told me I was such a nice guy."

Oh I'm sure they cried, but it was obvious she was just a workmate that, obviously once again he was targeting because she was in an emotionally-vulnerable place.

"... but in the end she said she had too much else to deal with to have a relationship with anyone..."

Good for her. Note she didn't with you.

"... at this point in time."

It's not you, it's me. Friendzoned.

"Then she took leave from work. I've went over there a few times but she was never home and then she patched things up with her husband."

Remember how I said Gammas in the Workplace are Sexual Harassment Suits waiting to happen? It's entirely possible going back to an abusive husband is less scary for a woman that constantly-wondering if the Gamma who just won't get the hint is creeping around outside their door.

Suddenly, I understood. He cries in front of these women hoping that the false intimacy of a sympathy hug translates to sexual attraction.

Or, as Bill put it later, "He's putting his left arm out for a hug, but the right arm is down at snatch level, each time creeping that little bit closer."

Then the offensiveness of it really hit home.

He's using the death of my mother to try and trick girls who are already dealing with heavy life shit into feeling sorry for him so he can get laid.

Where can really you go in a stepfather / son after realising something like that?

But, oh no, he wasn't finished yet.

"My first girlfriend, before your mother..."

The first time this has ever been mentioned to me in the entire family history. I always assumed he was a 30 year old virgin.

"... I met her just before she died of cancer."

My girlfriend, later: "Is he physically-trolling the chemo wards?"

I think that's about when I went into shock. Bill's face said it all. Luckily, my girlfriend popped her head out the door (and only her head) to say she was running late for work and could my stepdad move his truck, which was how I could make excuses for Bill and I to get the fuck away from him.

Thankfully, he took that as his cue and left, as my girlfriend drove around the block, then came back, since she had the day off.

Before I could even say "We owe you one," the kid came out the back door. He's got that whole whole awkward Michael Cera thing happening where he's either pausing or blurting out a stream of words. "So... I was just lying in bed and... listening... and well... did I really just hear all that?"

"You did," I said.

"What did I miss?" my girlfriend asked.

"Silence of the Lambs." Bill snorted.

"Sir..." The Kid always calls me Sir, no matter how many times I've told him to use my name. "It's like... I mean... I know he's your Dad..."

"Stepdad!" Bill and I said together.

My girlfriend was grinning in anticipation. "I've missed something good, haven't I?"

"No, it was bad." The Kid rubbed his fingers nervously. "... he was saying all that like... well... like he didn't understand how badly he came across."

"You're a lucky bastard," Bill said to him. "If you keeping hang around with us, I damn well guarantee you'll never turn into THAT."

It's bad when a 17-year-old kid has a Gamma's number.

-----

Later on that day, Bill was trying to make sense of what the fuck happened. "No, what the fuck what the fuck on top of what the fuck?"

"It's his sexual strategy."

"His whatchama what?"

"Look, if we want to ask a girl out, we can walk up and ask her out."

"As you do."

"And if we want to fuck, we'll ask them if they feel like a fuck, or it'll happen with no-one having to say anything."

"Worst pickup line I ever used mate: 'You got any Blackfella in you? No? Lay down, and I'll fix that for you."

"Did it work?"

"Fuck no, but I fucked her friend."

"My point was... Yeah, we don't beat around the bush..." He went to open his mouth but I said "Don't go there. The thing is [My Stepdad] can't."

"Why the fuck not?"

"She might say no."

"I can see that. He thinks he's much better than he is but he don't have much going for him. No woman is going to want to climb on that for a ride. Her saying no would mean he couldn't pretend the prawns were all his idea all along."

I found that hilarious. Bill doesn't know the term Gamma, but he's got it exactly-pegged.

"Same thing with The Kid's old man," I said. "He and I would pop into this bakery every morning where this farrrrrrking hot girl worked..."

"...As hot as your sister?"

"... and she obviously had the hots for him big time. All goo goo eyes as she handed over his meat pie. But he'd never make the move and would barely-talk to her. One time she started a conversation with me, and that was the end of it for him. He said she 'snubbed' him, and why would she talk to you and not me..."

"Ah yeah, she was using you to get closer to him?"

"No shit! This is high school stuff. But no. She was now 'a snob', and because of that, he never went into the bakery again."

"So she was ready, wet and waiting..."

"...and he couldn't close the deal."

"That's fucked in the head."

"Completely."

"You know your Stepdad is fucked in the head as well, don't you?"

"Not in his mind. He thinks he's being a hero to those women. A 'nice guy' offering them emotional support."

"He's only making their problems worse. What a fucking weirdo. You need to fuck that man right off. You've got your girlfriend and the Kid. I can be your 'granddad'."

"I always hoped for one a little more respectable."

"I just need to find a grandma and you've got the whole family ready to go. D'ya reckon your sister would marry me?"

I think Bill crossed the Sigma's Gamma Disgust Threshold, and, as such, my Stepdad is no longer a curiousity to ponder.

I crossed it myself. How do I interact with the man after all of that? Any suggestions? Could there ever be a worse Gamma story than that one?
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Holy shit dude, i know this isnt going to be constructive but that is some seriously sick shit.
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Just have less time for him; be busy. When I've started cutting out people like this, they get the message and even pretend that its 'their idea' that we don't have as much time for each other. They don't want a confrontation because you might tell them you don't like them to their face. Its still rejection and they'd rather pretend to be 'busy too' than risk that.
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