[Baffled King]

Background
*Late 20s, half Asian, 6'3 and good looking
*Can't speak any Chinese
*Stayed near Sanlitun (trendy night life district where most clubs are)
*Like sexy/fit girls
*Rolled solo

Beijing
Beijing is a pretty flat and historical looking city. It can be quite ugly at times. In some ways it is pretty advanced or developed but most people you see on the street might look like they've had pretty rough lives and might as well be from the 70s or earlier. Most of the young people are unattractive, bad skin and being overweight is extremely common. There were definitely pockets of the city where expats or more hip people hung out, and it seemed like two different worlds depending on where you went. People here don't give a fuck about anything and are blunt and direct, you shouldn't have AA here, no one cares if you talk to them randomly. However, Chinese guys don't approach from what I've seen. Almost no one I interacted with spoke decent English and communication was a problem everywhere I went. Don't skip eating Peking duck, that might be worth a trip here alone.

Women
Almost all the women I saw in Beijing were unattractive, or even if they were attractive, they gave off a totally nonsexual vibe. It seems like going for the "hello kitty" cute look is what girls go for here. I just get the sense that most girls here are very sexually inexperienced and conservative. It has been debated and discussed to death but it does seem like Chinese guys have a distinctly different taste than foreigners. The cute "hello kitty" or princess types seem to be preferred. There are definitely girls who go looking for foreigners, if they have tattoos or dress sexy it's a good bet that she is open to dating or sleeping with foreigners. I got approached quite a bit and got strong IOIs from these kinds of girls. I also got approached quite a bit by the large international/expat crowd here. It seems like if you are a white girl in Beijing you probably don't have a lot of options.

ONS is definitely possible but I think it just isn't in the cards with most typical Chinese girls unless they know you a little and are very drunk. With girls who seek out foreigners it is probably much easier.

Night Game
I was told club Mix and club Vic's were the two giants of Beijing night life by my research here, other websites, and by talking with others. I booked my hotel near them for this reason. However, I was incredibly disappointed when I visited them. The crowd was over 50% foreign, with a huge number of African people oddly enough. By my standards there were almost no attractive girls. It was a very trashy vibe. People were not dressed well and there were roaming prostitutes, many of them transexuals. Approaching was easy, I thought my normal aggressive club approach style would not translate but it was fine. Do not go to either club unless you want to approach 5s or English teachers or African girls.

I eventually approached girls out of boredom because the talent was so lacking and tried to get some local intel on where Chinese people went or the beautiful crowd went. I also asked girls on Tinder this. I crowd sourced a list of venues that should be good in 2017. Most laughed when I told them I had gone to Mix and Vic's and been disappointed.

A note about clubs in Beijing which holds true in other cities so far: Most of the people on the dancefloor will be foreigners. Tables will occupy the vast majority of the club space and most of the hotter girls will be already in groups of guys at tables. Chinese guys are actually pretty friendly and might invite you to their table. They play dice games and other weird drinking games and WeChat all night, people don't dance that much. Also if you see very hot/plastic looking girls looking bored sitting at a table in a group, they are paid PR girls or models and might expect you to tip or pay for their company.

Sanlitun
*Element (I went here and it was actually really cool and solid, there is also a hip hop room called Room 79 inside here, it isn't a separate club)
*Space One (Didn't spend much time here, but it was cool)
*Lantern (supposed to be more of a bar)
*Migas (more of a bar/lounge)
*Q Bar
*Opposite House

Gulou
*Dadas (the premier hipster/alt club in Beijing)
*Modernista

Day Game
I did not day game and I would think you would have to go to a high end mall or something to make it even barely worthwhile. I saw almost no talent walking around and I stayed in a hip area (Sanlitun). The 798 art district had the most talent walking around during the day of any place I went to in Beijing, so you could try there.

Online Game
FYI: Using the internet in China is a major pain in the ass. My hotel wifi was garbage, the 4G service I paid for was not good and you have to use a VPN to get around the "great firewall". There are two major dating app pipelines from what I can tell, Tinder and Tan Tan. Tan Tan is like the Chinese version of Tinder.

Tan Tan was a total waste of time, 75% of girls put on absurd amounts of filters on their pictures (hearts, bunny ears, stickers) so you cannot tell what they would look like in person. The remaining girls put such extremely unflattering pictures I wonder what their social IQ is or what they are going for. Only a few girls had "normal" pictures. I got quite a few matches but almost none of them spoke English and none were serious about meeting up once I told them I was only in town for a few days.

Tinder filtered out for girls who can speak English and wanted to meet foreigners. The talent pool was much better, and also a lot more international if you wanted to meet non-Chinese girls. I only went on one Tinder date since my stay in Beijing was so short. I went out with a Russian girl who seemed pretty eager to meet up but we didn't vibe at all.

PUA Community
There doesn't seem to be an active PUA community here. I tried meeting up with Roosh people or RSD people to no avail. Most people in China who I asked didn't seem to know much about what is current in Beijing.

Conclusion
I met one of the hottest girls I've ever seen in any club anywhere in Beijing. She ended up opening me and we spent a couple nights together. She definitely wasn't a hello kitty type, she was a fitness model and spoke great English. Just a really lovely person all around. If I didn't meet her during my time in Beijing I think I would have been pretty disappointed in my stay here as far as game goes. I don't think Beijing is a good game destination, but if you are here for other reasons you can make it work. PM me if you are in China, as I am still here.

[Suits]

The thing about Beijing is that information on nightlife (and many other things) doesn't stay current for very long. You might read a datasheet today about Beijing and visit two months later and discover that all the info is out of date.

OP's datasheet is an excellent example of how quickly information about Beijing goes past its expiry date. For example, one of the bars he lists has already closed since publication of the datasheet one hour ago (actually, it went out of business more than two years ago) and the another is not an actually venue, but rather a hotel. If you went there looking for a nightlife spot, all you would find would be a well know gay-bar called MESH.

OP, how reliable would you say that the data in your post is?

[Wayout]

Very accurate description of Beijing! Sometimes I read about a place here on this forum - how great it is and what not, and then I go there - and it's nothing like that! But this description is spot on! Shanghai is a livelier place with better options and cleaner air - I would recommend it better if you want to visit China!

[Mercenary]

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Most of the young people are unattractive, bad skin and being overweight is extremely common.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

I just get the sense that most girls here are very sexually inexperienced and conservative.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

There are definitely girls who go looking for foreigners, if they have tattoos or dress sexy it's a good bet that she is open to dating or sleeping with foreigners. I got approached quite a bit and got strong IOIs from these kinds of girls.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

ONS is definitely possible but I think it just isn't in the cards with most typical Chinese girls unless they know you a little and are very drunk.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

The crowd was over 50% foreign, with a huge number of African people oddly enough. By my standards there were almost no attractive girls.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

People were not dressed well and there were roaming prostitutes, many of them transexuals.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Chinese guys are actually pretty friendly and might invite you to their table.

OP - are you sure you went to Beijing ?
None of the above bolded statements sound accurate.
I have been to China 4 times and stayed in Beijing twice (with Suits).

[worldtraveler3]

The reason why the girls give off a 'hello kitty' vibe and dress that way is because the following:
local men largely prefer young girls. (think 21-25).

Although youth is valued anywhere, it is almost a rule there. If a girl is above say 25, she is already getting alot of pressure from parents, family, work, etc. So you have girls who are 27- 28 who are unmarried that want to 'look cute' and pretend that they are young.


This is very different to the west or south east Asia, where girls have more of a sexual vibe, especially Latin America.

You do see some more sexual Chinese women in Taiwan, if they are not like the Japanese types.

[atlant]

(03-02-2017 07:10 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Most of the young people are unattractive, bad skin and being overweight is extremely common.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

I just get the sense that most girls here are very sexually inexperienced and conservative.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

There are definitely girls who go looking for foreigners, if they have tattoos or dress sexy it's a good bet that she is open to dating or sleeping with foreigners. I got approached quite a bit and got strong IOIs from these kinds of girls.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

ONS is definitely possible but I think it just isn't in the cards with most typical Chinese girls unless they know you a little and are very drunk.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

The crowd was over 50% foreign, with a huge number of African people oddly enough. By my standards there were almost no attractive girls.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

People were not dressed well and there were roaming prostitutes, many of them transexuals.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Chinese guys are actually pretty friendly and might invite you to their table.

OP - are you sure you went to Beijing ?
None of the above bolded statements sound accurate.
I have been to China 4 times and stayed in Beijing twice (with Suits).

I don't know about obesity and transsexual prostitutes or Beijing venues in particular, as I've never been to Beijing, but the rest are reasonably accurate observations to make in China.

I've seen OP's Wechat pictures and so I can confirm that he indeed was in Beijing. Any other particulars regarding nightlife in Beijing are for people who've been there to debate.

[Baffled King]

I only went to four venues, Element (and room 79), Space One, Mix, and Vic's. The rest of the venues were recommendations given to me by locals.

Those are my observations.

I won't lie, I apparently pissed off the Roosh forum China guys with my attitude but I'm not being dishonest or trying to be misleading. If we are being honest I got kicked out of the WeChat group and Suits canceled his plans to meet me and tried to big league me after telling me he would show me the "real Sanlitun". That never happened so I can't comment on his perspective. To be frank, I don't know what kind of pick up artist you are if you live in China but don't use WeChat or go out to night clubs, since both are extremely popular here.

I honestly have no clue why Suits has or the non WeChat people seem to have a problem with me since I never met them or interacted with them. Some people have already backed up my opinions. A diversity of opinions and view points is a good thing, we don't have to all heed the party line.

PM me and I'll give you my WeChat and you can see pictures of my experiences in Beijing.

[Kendrick]

I can confirm Baffled King was in Beijing. He's well traveled and his observations have always been honest and on point.

[GlobalMan]

I was confused about what's going on here, but our esteemed member TravelerKai gives some insight-

(02-27-2017 10:26 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

This poster (BK) wasted everyone's time and acted like a narcissistic 10 year old, insulting the forum, Roosh, and the Asia crew in particular. I honestly do not know why we bother with RSD guys here but it is not always exactly easy to spot them or notice them at first. This guy is hardly any different than that David Bond guy.

TravelerKai Wrote:

Called the RVF Asia Crew faggots, said fuck Roosh, and behaves like a God Damned child

[Baffled King]

Not sure how I could have wasted any ones time considering I didn't meet any of you. If calling someone a faggot playfully because they didn't want to go out clubbing because it was too cold gets you that upset I don't know what to tell you. How can I not bust balls with the RVF Asia group chat is discussing the various levels of body hair of different kinds of Hispanic women on a Friday night and admit they aren't going out?

Yeah it seems like Roosh people are more interested in sociological discussion than actually gaming, if that's not a kosher opinion to have you can request I get banned from the forum too. Plenty of people have PMed me to complain about the lack of game and the amount of posturing and faker Ian among RVF and the Asia crew specifically. Some thanked me for saying it publicly since you guys apparently behave like high school bullies and black list anyone who challenges you.

I also have no affiliation with RSD nor am I familiar with their material or teachings.

[Truly]

Beijing isn't a bad place, and I don't believe BK is wrong in his observations, as I would never recommend Beijing for game/partying to anyone that either doesn't have a lot of money to blow or know the right people that have money to blow. If you want decent looking Chinese girls, I would suggest HK or Singapore. Although money will still get you far, game is much more viable in those places.

I've partied in Beijing on occasion during business trips when I was based out in HK, and yeah it's significantly better when you have connections with wealth. The party scene is completely different than the average Joe going to game, and the girls you see tend to be models or have some sort of fame relevant to China. When we went to clubs, it was strictly tables and drinking games. No dancing to speak of and yeah, most of the people on the dance floor were foreigners or people that couldn't afford a table.

The unfortunate thing about Beijing or China in general, is most girls that are 8+ know that they are and typically parlay it into a modeling/acting career (and sometimes even high-end prostitution). Or they're lucky enough to find a wealthy man who pays her a $3k+ USD monthly allowance to be his girlfriend.

[Mercenary]

(03-03-2017 05:16 AM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Yeah it seems like Roosh people are more interested in sociological discussion than actually gaming

This from the guy that did zero day gaming in Beijing.

[Global Entry]

All I'll say, man, is that if you look, they're out there. Not at Vic's or Mixx and based on your luck of the draw, maybe not even the venues that arent rehashes of 2006 Beijing. But they exist, in droves. However, just rolling solo up to a night spot...probably not gonna yield amazing results.

One of my exes, for whom I have understandable one-itis to a degree, is the best looking, most complete girl I've ever dated. She has it all. I honestly fucked up a bit letting her go (I wasn't ready to commit, mostly because I was involved with someone else more seriously). She's a Shenyang gal who works in the movie industry, one in which I've spent a lot of time myself. Super looking girl, very fair complexion, killer body, big chest, tight elsewhere, masters degree yadayada. Dunzo, so whatever.

I've seen bunches of great gals in BJ at various industry events, both for the entertainment industry, and when I've been in town for VC conferences. Open, down to meet up later, etc. But unlike you, I do speak some Chinese, have some permanence in China (demonstrably), etc. I don't know if it affected your results - but humility is important in China, no matter what super rich kids do. It matters.

I'll send you my WeChat, not sure what happened with the group, but not everyone is a fit - I wasn't either, though there are some good guys in there.

Take your experience not as categoric. Its anecdotal. And flying solo, not speaking Chinese, not knowing a city, and still ending up with a good looking girl whose company you enjoyed - it doesn't sound like such a trainwreck of a trip to me. Many guys have visited China and gone home with less.

[polar]

OP, what is your experience level with day and night game?

[Baffled King]

I don't day game much at all but night game very experienced. I get good results, pm me your WeChat if you want to see.

[Roosh]

(03-03-2017 05:16 AM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Not sure how I could have wasted any ones time considering I didn't meet any of you. If calling someone a faggot playfully because they didn't want to go out clubbing because it was too cold gets you that upset I don't know what to tell you. How can I not bust balls with the RVF Asia group chat is discussing the various levels of body hair of different kinds of Hispanic women on a Friday night and admit they aren't going out?

Yeah it seems like Roosh people are more interested in sociological discussion than actually gaming, if that's not a kosher opinion to have you can request I get banned from the forum too. Plenty of people have PMed me to complain about the lack of game and the amount of posturing and faker Ian among RVF and the Asia crew specifically. Some thanked me for saying it publicly since you guys apparently behave like high school bullies and black list anyone who challenges you.

I also have no affiliation with RSD nor am I familiar with their material or teachings.

7 day suspension

[Fortis]

I've never seen someone cop a ban in their own thread. Is this an RVF first?

[Suits]

(03-09-2017 12:13 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

I've never seen someone cop a ban in their own thread. Is this an RVF first?

Sure, it's happened before in various meltdown threads.

It shouldn't come as a surprise with Baffled King. I haven't met him, so it's entirely possible that he's totally cool in person, but I don't trust him.

And it isn't because I've heard a ton of negative comments about him through the forum grapevine or that he immediately gave off a bad impression as soon as he started posting about his plans for his trip to China. I don't like to reach opinions based on things I've been told, I prefer to deal in certainties.

There is on certainty that I am confident about regarding Baffled King. He just isn't honest and is willing to twist the truth to suit his agenda.

How do I know this?

Observe the following quotation:

(03-03-2017 04:03 AM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Suits canceled his plans to meet me and tried to big league me after telling me he would show me the "real Sanlitun". That never happened so I can't comment on his perspective.

Baffled King has very intentionally twisted my words in an attempt to place me in the worst light possible.

I never used to the word "real" with him regarding Sanlitun or anything else.

I offered to give him a proper tour of Sanlitun, but I never claimed that I would show him the "real Sanlitun" like I thought I was some sort of inside expert and held myself superior.

The tour, which plenty of other forum members have received and benefitted from, consists of an introduction to the key areas, but specifically focuses on the venues I have used to achieve a 50% close rate on girls I meet for one or more dates. It's nothing fancy and if anyone would like to show me the "real Sanlitun," I would love to take that tour, because I'm sure I'd learn a ton. There's a ton of hidden spots and inside information about the district that I know nothing about and would love to be educated on.

(03-03-2017 04:03 AM)Baffled King Wrote:  

To be frank, I don't know what kind of pick up artist you are if you live in China but don't use WeChat or go out to night clubs, since both are extremely popular here.

I'll address the above statement, not because I need to, but because it offers an opportunity to add value to the forum.

I was talking to Fortis a few days about this topic and we agreed that for most of the China crew (with some notable and respectable exceptions), most of us are focused on building a business. Of the guys I talk to, we are all doing this on a shoestring and innovating in areas that are unique to us, so while there is a lot of opportunity, it is going to require all of us a lot of discipline and sacrifice to be successful.

We work long hours (often on the weekend) and we don't have a ton of time and money to blow at clubs on fake alcoholic beverages (which can get you sick) and a cheap social experience with music so loud that you can't hold a proper conversation.

Clubs simply do not offer us the ROI that we can get from other sources. My thread on Party Host Game details the journey I went on in 2015 to find an efficient means of accessing quality pussy without investing a ton of time.

Space Cowboy, myself and others conducted numerous experiments and when my lease on my party pad ended, three things were clear:

(1) Clubs are a waste of time. Investing time and money into hosting parties will get you a ton more return on your investment than hitting the club (and it's more fun too).

(2) I wanted to continue that lifestyle.

(3) I needed to build a business to pay for the lifestyle I wanted, instead of simply trading my time for money, as I currently do.

Once my 14-month party pad lease expired, I moved somewhere cheap and invested most of my time and money into building a building a business that will be an engine for wealth creation. I've completed some major milestones and am very close to having a legitimate product ready to release, with several others soon to follow.

If you've wondered why I haven't been posting at all recently, that's part of the reason why.

I didn't meet Baffled King because he didn't respond to my offer to meet Friday daytime (when doing so would actually fit my schedule). I tried to fit in a Saturday night meet up, but had to cancel when I got more work than I could manage dumped on my a valued client.

If Baffled King had come better recommended or if he'd made a little more effort to make the meet up happen, I would have been as flexible as possible (even if it meant screwing my client), just as I have previously gone out of my way to meet forum members that did come highly recommended by others.

But this time around, it was just not worth risking wasting my time. Which incidentally, is what WeChat will do for you -- waste your time.

I was in China beginning in 2006. I didn't need WeChat then and I don't need it now. There are a ton of benefits that come with not carrying a smart phone at all and for me not having one adds value to my life, instead of taking it away.

Having WeChat is surprisingly irrelevant when you speak Chinese and are on a mission to avoid having pointless distractions in your life.

[Global Entry]

I'm just gonna weigh in on the WeChat thing.

Its omnipresent in the business dealings I have in China. Its not a toy, a game or a pickup tool primarily. My law firm has connections to judges, to private equity guys, etc. We're all connected via WeChat, individually and in long-standing business discussion groups. When I had the consulting gig with the tech firm last year, all the sales groups communicated almost entirely by WeChat. When I attended HK Filmmart last year for a Mexican/American film company, again, there were business cards delivered, but every new contact added via WeChat, at their request, not mine. It wouldn't have mattered in any of these instances if my Chinese were better than it is - it would have left me out of the direct and secondary chains of communication, and also affected my ability to DHV (on a biz tip) given my travel, lifestyle etc.(via the Moments function) - some things that Chinese hold in high regard. They want to do business with connected and successful people. I guess if you don't really fit that description, then perhaps you might not be hurt much by not having WeChat. Otherwise, you're leaving quite a bit on the table.

Suits and I have pretty different ideas about China. I remember when I had lost my employment back in October, 2015, as my contract ended and I chose not to renew. It was Suits who recommended that I just stay in the US (perhaps it was tongue in cheek but I remember the concept of a job at McDonalds being mentioned), rather than coming to China, where I surely wouldn't be valued in the workplace, where i was unlikely to even land a position perhaps. I made my own decision, came back, landed the consulting job mentioned above (10K USD a month) and used that as a building block to recreate my life again in Asia after a year's hiatus. (I don't think I have the message anymore, but I did share it with some other forum members - perhaps someone can dig it out).

I don't want to get into a debate about this message, the "Advice" or anything else, rather than to suggest that people make up their own minds about what's worth it, and what will work for them in business, etc. Opinions posted here are typically valid enough, they're what we're here for, but as Suits said himself, he likes to determine on his own, not just listen to others. I just wouldn't take it so far as to say that he's dealing in certainties, or that any of us "experts" are.

The readers here perhaps should heed that advice.

(03-09-2017 02:12 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 12:13 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

I've never seen someone cop a ban in their own thread. Is this an RVF first?

Sure, it's happened before in various meltdown threads.

It shouldn't come as a surprise with Baffled King. I haven't met him, so it's entirely possible that he's totally cool in person, but I don't trust him.

And it isn't because I've heard a ton of negative comments about him through the forum grapevine or that he immediately gave off a bad impression as soon as he started posting about his plans for his trip to China. I don't like to reach opinions based on things I've been told, I prefer to deal in certainties.

There is on certainty that I am confident about regarding Baffled King. He just isn't honest and is willing to twist the truth to suit his agenda.

How do I know this?

Observe the following quotation:

(03-03-2017 04:03 AM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Suits canceled his plans to meet me and tried to big league me after telling me he would show me the "real Sanlitun". That never happened so I can't comment on his perspective.

Baffled King has very intentionally twisted my words in an attempt to place me in the worst light possible.

I never used to the word "real" with him regarding Sanlitun or anything else.

I offered to give him a proper tour of Sanlitun, but I never claimed that I would show him the "real Sanlitun" like I thought I was some sort of inside expert and held myself superior.

The tour, which plenty of other forum members have received and benefitted from, consists of an introduction to the key areas, but specifically focuses on the venues I have used to achieve a 50% close rate on girls I meet for one or more dates. It's nothing fancy and if anyone would like to show me the "real Sanlitun," I would love to take that tour, because I'm sure I'd learn a ton. There's a ton of hidden spots and inside information about the district that I know nothing about and would love to be educated on.

(03-03-2017 04:03 AM)Baffled King Wrote:  

To be frank, I don't know what kind of pick up artist you are if you live in China but don't use WeChat or go out to night clubs, since both are extremely popular here.

I'll address the above statement, not because I need to, but because it offers an opportunity to add value to the forum.

I was talking to Fortis a few days about this topic and we agreed that for most of the China crew (with some notable and respectable exceptions), most of us are focused on building a business. Of the guys I talk to, we are all doing this on a shoestring and innovating in areas that are unique to us, so while there is a lot of opportunity, it is going to require all of us a lot of discipline and sacrifice to be successful.

We work long hours (often on the weekend) and we don't have a ton of time and money to blow at clubs on fake alcoholic beverages (which can get you sick) and a cheap social experience with music so loud that you can't hold a proper conversation.

Clubs simply do not offer us the ROI that we can get from other sources. My thread on Party Host Game details the journey I went on in 2015 to find an efficient means of accessing quality pussy without investing a ton of time.

Space Cowboy, myself and others conducted numerous experiments and when my lease on my party pad ended, three things were clear:

(1) Clubs are a waste of time. Investing time and money into hosting parties will get you a ton more return on your investment than hitting the club (and it's more fun too).

(2) I wanted to continue that lifestyle.

(3) I needed to build a business to pay for the lifestyle I wanted, instead of simply trading my time for money, as I currently do.

Once my 14-month party pad lease expired, I moved somewhere cheap and invested most of my time and money into building a building a business that will be an engine for wealth creation. I've completed some major milestones and am very close to having a legitimate product ready to release, with several others soon to follow.

If you've wondered why I haven't been posting at all recently, that's part of the reason why.

I didn't meet Baffled King because he didn't respond to my offer to meet Friday daytime (when doing so would actually fit my schedule). I tried to fit in a Saturday night meet up, but had to cancel when I got more work than I could manage dumped on my a valued client.

If Baffled King had come better recommended or if he'd made a little more effort to make the meet up happen, I would have been as flexible as possible (even if it meant screwing my client), just as I have previously gone out of my way to meet forum members that did come highly recommended by others.

But this time around, it was just not worth risking wasting my time. Which incidentally, is what WeChat will do for you -- waste your time.

I was in China beginning in 2006. I didn't need WeChat then and I don't need it now. There are a ton of benefits that come with not carrying a smart phone at all and for me not having one adds value to my life, instead of taking it away.

Having WeChat is surprisingly irrelevant when you speak Chinese and are on a mission to avoid having pointless distractions in your life.

[Suits]

(03-10-2017 10:38 AM)Global Entry Wrote:  

I'm just gonna weigh in on the WeChat thing.

Its omnipresent in the business dealings I have in China. Its not a toy, a game or a pickup tool primarily. My law firm has connections to judges, to private equity guys, etc. We're all connected via WeChat, individually and in long-standing business discussion groups. When I had the consulting gig with the tech firm last year, all the sales groups communicated almost entirely by WeChat. When I attended HK Filmmart last year for a Mexican/American film company, again, there were business cards delivered, but every new contact added via WeChat, at their request, not mine. It wouldn't have mattered in any of these instances if my Chinese were better than it is - it would have left me out of the direct and secondary chains of communication, and also affected my ability to DHV (on a biz tip) given my travel, lifestyle etc.(via the Moments function) - some things that Chinese hold in high regard. They want to do business with connected and successful people. I guess if you don't really fit that description, then perhaps you might not be hurt much by not having WeChat. Otherwise, you're leaving quite a bit on the table.

I hope you didn't take my statement personally about the irrelevance of WeChat. I wouldn't even bother to waste anyone's time arguing the merits of using and not using different social media tools. I have absolutely no problem with anyone else using them -- that's their choice.

I think it should go without saying that there are those who benefit from their use of WeChat and many other things that I haven't used in over a decade, such as razors, deodorant and underwear.

The context in which I made the statement was in response to a China noob, who was questioning my qualifications as a "player" because I don't use WeChat. Within that context, (using WeChat as a tool of the trade for chasing tail), I can assure you WeChat is more or less irrelevant.

I suppose it could be argued that WeChat provides the opportunity to Demonstrate Higher Value, but that certainly hasn't stopped me from getting dates and having sex with a whole range of women. My biggest game problem right now is not having enough time for all the women who want my dick.

If someone really wants to debate about whether a WeChat Moments page with cute photographs or the ability to converse without a language barrier in Chinese is a bigger Demonstration of Higher Value, I'm all ears.

If we want to talk WeChat for business, that's an entirely different topic, which others are free to debate if they wish. There's no question that if you are in the business of trying to network with others, you're going to want to use whatever communication tools they prefer.

If you are the prize and others are beating down your door in an attempt to bend your ear for two minutes, in that context WeChat would probably also be irrelevant, as many folks would be more than happy to use a complex network of carrier pigeons to communicate with you just to get into contact with you.

(03-10-2017 10:38 AM)Global Entry Wrote:  

Suits and I have pretty different ideas about China. I remember when I had lost my employment back in October, 2015, as my contract ended and I chose not to renew. It was Suits who recommended that I just stay in the US (perhaps it was tongue in cheek but I remember the concept of a job at McDonalds being mentioned), rather than coming to China, where I surely wouldn't be valued in the workplace, where i was unlikely to even land a position perhaps. I made my own decision, came back, landed the consulting job mentioned above (10K USD a month) and used that as a building block to recreate my life again in Asia after a year's hiatus. (I don't think I have the message anymore, but I did share it with some other forum members - perhaps someone can dig it out).

I don't want to get into a debate about this message, the "Advice" or anything else, rather than to suggest that people make up their own minds about what's worth it, and what will work for them in business, etc. Opinions posted here are typically valid enough, they're what we're here for, but as Suits said himself, he likes to determine on his own, not just listen to others. I just wouldn't take it so far as to say that he's dealing in certainties, or that any of us "experts" are.

Global Entry is absolutely right about this point. It's fine (and recommended) to seek out advice and added information when making an important life decision, but the decision is ultimately yours. I don't recall PM'ing with Global Entry regarding his decision, and as this would have been back before the Great Purge of 2016, my copies of the messages we exchanged are stored away tightly on the hard-drive of a deceased laptop in a box somewhere, so I can't review what we discussed.

I'm glad that GE made decisions that worked for him and I have no problem with guys asking for my thoughts, but ultimately making their decisions. I've responded to a ton of requests for advice and information on China over the years on this forum and I always try to be as helpful as possible, but my advice can only be as good as the information I have, which for just most situations, is limited to minimal data-points.

However, I'll keep providing the best advice I can and I'll post three examples as to why.

(1) There are several forum members who ignored my advice about typical starting salary ranges in China, spent a lot of money to move to China and seek employment, only to end up disappointed and return to their home country after discovering that the typical starting salary ranges in China were exactly what I told them they would be.

(2) There's been a couple cases where forum members have ignored the advice that I and other members gave them about choosing a city in which to live in China. They ended up very disappointed with their choice and eventually moved to one of the cities which I and others recommended in the first place.

(3) I've provided venue related game advice to several guys who visited Beijing and they later thanked me, because the information I shared with them played a key role in getting them laid.

As I'm sure GE agrees, one of the key benefits of the forum is that a member can get information from many different people. I wouldn't participate in giving out advice if it wasn't with the expectations that those requesting it would do their due diligence and make the best choice for themselves.

[dalbroker]

I went to Beijing last year. I was with a girl and did not game while
there. I also visited Suzhou, Shanghai and Taipei.

Beijng -People are def taller. Much less western influenced than Shanghai.

Good part - Less foreigners than Shanghai.

Chinese girls are more conservative and less sexual. They get started
later partially because they spend a lot of time studying.

I agree the internet in China is a flaming pile od S**T. Running my
virtual business there was disaster. Struggling to get 2meg.

By the way - When I was walking around with my girl in Beijing we have
locals talk shit to her EVERY DAY in Mandarin. Probably 30-40 people negged
her for being with a foreigner in 3 days.

It was so bad we made a joke out of going out to piss off more people.

LOL.

I did get WAY MORE IOI from girls in Beijing than in Shanghai and it was
not even close.

(03-01-2017 11:47 PM)Baffled King Wrote:  

Background
*Late 20s, half Asian, 6'3 and good looking
*Can't speak any Chinese
*Stayed near Sanlitun (trendy night life district where most clubs are)
*Like sexy/fit girls
*Rolled solo

Beijing
Beijing is a pretty flat and historical looking city. It can be quite ugly at times. In some ways it is pretty advanced or developed but most people you see on the street might look like they've had pretty rough lives and might as well be from the 70s or earlier. Most of the young people are unattractive, bad skin and being overweight is extremely common. There were definitely pockets of the city where expats or more hip people hung out, and it seemed like two different worlds depending on where you went. People here don't give a fuck about anything and are blunt and direct, you shouldn't have AA here, no one cares if you talk to them randomly. However, Chinese guys don't approach from what I've seen. Almost no one I interacted with spoke decent English and communication was a problem everywhere I went. Don't skip eating Peking duck, that might be worth a trip here alone.

Women
Almost all the women I saw in Beijing were unattractive, or even if they were attractive, they gave off a totally nonsexual vibe. It seems like going for the "hello kitty" cute look is what girls go for here. I just get the sense that most girls here are very sexually inexperienced and conservative. It has been debated and discussed to death but it does seem like Chinese guys have a distinctly different taste than foreigners. The cute "hello kitty" or princess types seem to be preferred. There are definitely girls who go looking for foreigners, if they have tattoos or dress sexy it's a good bet that she is open to dating or sleeping with foreigners. I got approached quite a bit and got strong IOIs from these kinds of girls. I also got approached quite a bit by the large international/expat crowd here. It seems like if you are a white girl in Beijing you probably don't have a lot of options.

ONS is definitely possible but I think it just isn't in the cards with most typical Chinese girls unless they know you a little and are very drunk. With girls who seek out foreigners it is probably much easier.

Night Game
I was told club Mix and club Vic's were the two giants of Beijing night life by my research here, other websites, and by talking with others. I booked my hotel near them for this reason. However, I was incredibly disappointed when I visited them. The crowd was over 50% foreign, with a huge number of African people oddly enough. By my standards there were almost no attractive girls. It was a very trashy vibe. People were not dressed well and there were roaming prostitutes, many of them transexuals. Approaching was easy, I thought my normal aggressive club approach style would not translate but it was fine. Do not go to either club unless you want to approach 5s or English teachers or African girls.

I eventually approached girls out of boredom because the talent was so lacking and tried to get some local intel on where Chinese people went or the beautiful crowd went. I also asked girls on Tinder this. I crowd sourced a list of venues that should be good in 2017. Most laughed when I told them I had gone to Mix and Vic's and been disappointed.

A note about clubs in Beijing which holds true in other cities so far: Most of the people on the dancefloor will be foreigners. Tables will occupy the vast majority of the club space and most of the hotter girls will be already in groups of guys at tables. Chinese guys are actually pretty friendly and might invite you to their table. They play dice games and other weird drinking games and WeChat all night, people don't dance that much. Also if you see very hot/plastic looking girls looking bored sitting at a table in a group, they are paid PR girls or models and might expect you to tip or pay for their company.

Sanlitun
*Element (I went here and it was actually really cool and solid, there is also a hip hop room called Room 79 inside here, it isn't a separate club)
*Space One (Didn't spend much time here, but it was cool)
*Lantern (supposed to be more of a bar)
*Migas (more of a bar/lounge)
*Q Bar
*Opposite House

Gulou
*Dadas (the premier hipster/alt club in Beijing)
*Modernista

Day Game
I did not day game and I would think you would have to go to a high end mall or something to make it even barely worthwhile. I saw almost no talent walking around and I stayed in a hip area (Sanlitun). The 798 art district had the most talent walking around during the day of any place I went to in Beijing, so you could try there.

Online Game
FYI: Using the internet in China is a major pain in the ass. My hotel wifi was garbage, the 4G service I paid for was not good and you have to use a VPN to get around the "great firewall". There are two major dating app pipelines from what I can tell, Tinder and Tan Tan. Tan Tan is like the Chinese version of Tinder.

Tan Tan was a total waste of time, 75% of girls put on absurd amounts of filters on their pictures (hearts, bunny ears, stickers) so you cannot tell what they would look like in person. The remaining girls put such extremely unflattering pictures I wonder what their social IQ is or what they are going for. Only a few girls had "normal" pictures. I got quite a few matches but almost none of them spoke English and none were serious about meeting up once I told them I was only in town for a few days.

Tinder filtered out for girls who can speak English and wanted to meet foreigners. The talent pool was much better, and also a lot more international if you wanted to meet non-Chinese girls. I only went on one Tinder date since my stay in Beijing was so short. I went out with a Russian girl who seemed pretty eager to meet up but we didn't vibe at all.

PUA Community
There doesn't seem to be an active PUA community here. I tried meeting up with Roosh people or RSD people to no avail. Most people in China who I asked didn't seem to know much about what is current in Beijing.

Conclusion
I met one of the hottest girls I've ever seen in any club anywhere in Beijing. She ended up opening me and we spent a couple nights together. She definitely wasn't a hello kitty type, she was a fitness model and spoke great English. Just a really lovely person all around. If I didn't meet her during my time in Beijing I think I would have been pretty disappointed in my stay here as far as game goes. I don't think Beijing is a good game destination, but if you are here for other reasons you can make it work. PM me if you are in China, as I am still here.

[DMario]

I will be moving here next month for my job. I will probably be staying for around a year or so and living in the lufthansa area in Chaoyang. Once I get there I will try to keep this as updated as possible on my experiences.

I'm African-American so I'm sure my experiences will be drastically different from everyone else's.

[Transsimian]

DMario,

I'd recommend you read TravellerKai's thread on China. He's Black too.

thread-38876.html

[DMario]

(04-16-2017 07:41 PM)Transsimian Wrote:  

DMario,

I'd recommend you read TravellerKai's thread on China. He's Black too.

thread-38876.html

Ive read it about 12 times haha

[TravelerKai]

(04-16-2017 07:00 PM)DMario Wrote:  

I will be moving here next month for my job. I will probably be staying for around a year or so and living in the lufthansa area in Chaoyang. Once I get there I will try to keep this as updated as possible on my experiences.

I'm African-American so I'm sure my experiences will be drastically different from everyone else's.

You should make your own running datasheet like many others do. Vacancier Permanent, Cleanslate, Global Entry, etc. If I were you I would not post it here. You could put your name in the title so everyone knows it is yours even.

I look forward to reading about your experiences, should be good. If you need help with anything while in China, Fortis, Suits, or myself are always around.