Quote: (04-05-2017 05:03 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:
Territorial waters are nothing like land. They are not going to give up that sea. Their future oil supply depends on it as well as commercial fishing. The SEA countries should just quickly make an agreement deal/pact for fishing and forget about oil claims instead of getting into a war, while it is still possible.
Expansions are 9/10 times, about resources. Being big it is possible to push your elbows out and no one will do shit about it. The US did it with Iraq and Afghanistan. The rest of the world did not like it, except for the allies that joined in early to secure a cut themselves (or get expensive toys and trade deals).
We're not talking about territorial waters. China is building on actual islands, including the Spratley and Paracel island chains, which are territory of the Philippines and Vietnam respectively.
Not to mention that China has repeatedly challenged the US and other countries when they're in both international waters and the waters of other countries.
There was just a thread posted recently with those US pilots arguing with the Chinese, who were telling them to stop flying over international waters and to "go away now".
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China saw that and is going to copy that. They won't land expand, but that sea was theirs historically like certain other things, and they will not let off it.
They are land expanding. Even if you don't include the existing islands they're building on, they're creating "land" in the middle of the ocean in the form of artificial islands.
The "US did it too" argument does not hold water either. Sure, the US did it too. That doesn't mean we have to let China do it.
No one is saying they're evil. But there's going to be push back against their expansion, just like there was a few decades ago when the US and China fought proxy wars in Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc.
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Honestly, what does the US have to lose if we created a summit to force a deal between SEA and China (as well as access for our ships to pass through certain areas) and see if everyone can buy in to that? We don't need the fishing or the minerals. For us, we need the region and our allies like Japan to not be destabilized.
What does the US have to lose? Control of the entire region. There's a reason that China wants those military bases so badly. And once they have control, there's no guarantee that they're going to give the US and the world access to certain regions.
And here's a reason that despite their imperialist past, most countries in Asia would rather deal with the US than China. It's because China -- and many communist countries, in general -- are not exactly known for holding up deals and bargains once they get what they want.
Also, this isn't all about "us", as in America.
The Philippines and Vietnam, for instance, DO need that fishing, and they could definitely use any minerals or oil that's there. There are people in those countries that have literally relied on the fishing in those regions for survival for generations.
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If we wait too long, China's navy will get so big, they will just cordon off the entire area one day and proclaim the area closed off. The earlier a deal is made, they won't fuck with it later. They have to know that too, but they want the ball to say China on it more so than to just play basketball by themselves.
The entire reason China wants those islands is it allows them to project power throughout the entire region and strike both the US and US allies.
It's not coincidence that the countries they're feuding with over islands are Philippines (US bases), Japan (US bases), Vietnam (US soft ally). And of course, NK is their buffer against the US in SK.
Also, the "China's navy/military getting so big" narrative has been debunked time and again. China has 1 carrier. The US has, what, 18?
And China's carrier is a hand-me-down from Russia.
Their most advanced aircraft are based on stolen US designs. And they're not even operational yet.
People talk about military technology as if you just go up to Best Buy and buy the best flat screen. It doesn't work like that. The US (and Israel) have been developing the best tech for 50+ years.
China isn't just going to waltz in with their inflated GDP and suddenly compete on the US' level. Especially if Trump does a portion of what he promises in terms of eliminating military waste and inefficiency.
China's entire strategy is not to compete with the US directly but to keep the US from attacking them directly, while giving them the capability to hit the US anywhere in the region. That's where these islands come in, because they're like stationary carriers that allow China to attack and defend from everywhere the US has bases.