Quote: (01-24-2018 09:54 AM)Icarus Wrote:
How does Rossi know for sure he has no Sicilian ancestors? Where is the genealogical data?
If he does, then one of his female ancestors may have been raped by Muslim Arabs and he should probably not be making fun of Serbs for allegedly having female ancestors who were allegedly raped by the Muslim Ottomans.
Well, if he is from Rome then wouldn't you have to prove that he has ancestors from Sicily? The burden of proof would be on you, he would likely know his ancestry better than us.
I understand where you're getting at. Italians lived in Sicily, however, I believe for most of history Sicily was considered a different place than Italy - and even in modernity many Sicilians are Sicilian first and Italian second.
Quote: (01-24-2018 09:43 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:
That in itself shouldn't mean anything, but you are talking about hundreds of years before Italy as a nation was even a "thing".
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Sure, but by the same reasoning, Spain was never conquered by the Muslims. It was not Spain, it was the Visigothic Kingdom. Or, better, Visigothic Hispania. But historians write Visigothic Spain nonetheless.
Yes, but my point isn't purely based on the concept on Nation-statism
The reason why it is called Visigothic Spain is because geographically that region is more or less modern Spain. It's also an easier transition to say that the Muslims conquered the Spanish because Visgothic culture had disappeared and culturally they
were Spanish (perhaps similar to how Manchurian culture was absorbed by Chinese).
Also, when Spain was formed the Moores still had control of modern day Spain. There isn't a gap of 100s of years between the time of Muslim-Sicily and the formation of Italy.
Sicily and Italy are two different places. Sicily and Italy were/are not the same politically, geographically and culturally (they had similarities naturally).
I feel like this is almost like saying the Spanish conquered USA because they conquered Puerto Rico. It doesn't quite add up, I get that because of the Roman Empire many Italians lived in Sicily - but they were mixed muts and Sicily still had cultural differences from Italy (not to mention that Italy in itself was culturally diverse because we're talking 100s of years before Italy was a thing politically).
Maybe a better way to get my point across. Ultimately, even though Lazio and Sicily are both part of the same country today, I don't believe people from those regions think they have the same history pre-unification. So I don't think you're really going to get to a person from Lazio by saying that the Muslims conquered Sicily, therefore, Italians were conquered by Muslims - they aren't as tribal as the Serbians are.