Quote: (01-24-2018 09:43 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

Eh...the argument with Sicily seems a little wishy-washy to me.

How does Rossi know for sure he has no Sicilian ancestors? Where is the genealogical data?

If he does, then one of his female ancestors may have been raped by Muslim Arabs and he should probably not be making fun of Serbs for allegedly having female ancestors who were allegedly raped by Muslim Ottomans.

Quote: (01-24-2018 09:43 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

That in itself shouldn't mean anything, but you are talking about hundreds of years before Italy as a nation was even a "thing".

Sure, but by the same reasoning, Spain was never conquered by the Muslims. It was not Spain, it was the Visigothic Kingdom. Or, better, Visigothic Hispania. But historians write Visigothic Spain nonetheless.

Quote: (01-24-2018 09:54 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

How does Rossi know for sure he has no Sicilian ancestors? Where is the genealogical data?

If he does, then one of his female ancestors may have been raped by Muslim Arabs and he should probably not be making fun of Serbs for allegedly having female ancestors who were allegedly raped by the Muslim Ottomans.

Well, if he is from Rome then wouldn't you have to prove that he has ancestors from Sicily? The burden of proof would be on you, he would likely know his ancestry better than us.

I understand where you're getting at. Italians lived in Sicily, however, I believe for most of history Sicily was considered a different place than Italy - and even in modernity many Sicilians are Sicilian first and Italian second.

Quote: (01-24-2018 09:43 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

That in itself shouldn't mean anything, but you are talking about hundreds of years before Italy as a nation was even a "thing".

Quote:Quote:

Sure, but by the same reasoning, Spain was never conquered by the Muslims. It was not Spain, it was the Visigothic Kingdom. Or, better, Visigothic Hispania. But historians write Visigothic Spain nonetheless.

Yes, but my point isn't purely based on the concept on Nation-statism

The reason why it is called Visigothic Spain is because geographically that region is more or less modern Spain. It's also an easier transition to say that the Muslims conquered the Spanish because Visgothic culture had disappeared and culturally they were Spanish (perhaps similar to how Manchurian culture was absorbed by Chinese).

Also, when Spain was formed the Moores still had control of modern day Spain. There isn't a gap of 100s of years between the time of Muslim-Sicily and the formation of Italy.

Sicily and Italy are two different places. Sicily and Italy were/are not the same politically, geographically and culturally (they had similarities naturally).


I feel like this is almost like saying the Spanish conquered USA because they conquered Puerto Rico. It doesn't quite add up, I get that because of the Roman Empire many Italians lived in Sicily - but they were mixed muts and Sicily still had cultural differences from Italy (not to mention that Italy in itself was culturally diverse because we're talking 100s of years before Italy was a thing politically).





Maybe a better way to get my point across. Ultimately, even though Lazio and Sicily are both part of the same country today, I don't believe people from those regions think they have the same history pre-unification. So I don't think you're really going to get to a person from Lazio by saying that the Muslims conquered Sicily, therefore, Italians were conquered by Muslims - they aren't as tribal as the Serbians are.

Quote: (01-24-2018 09:43 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

That in itself shouldn't mean anything, but you are talking about hundreds of years before Italy as a nation was even a "thing".

The discussion was not political, it was genetical.

Quote: (01-24-2018 09:43 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

Also, when Spain was formed the Moores still had control of modern day Spain.

Not quite. Modern Spain is roughly 300 years old. The Reconquista ended 526 years ago.

Quote: (01-24-2018 09:43 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

Maybe a better way to get my point across. Ultimately, even though Lazio and Sicily are both part of the same country today, I don't believe people from those regions think they have the same history pre-unification.

Every European capital is full of people from the provinces who snobbishly pretend their ancestors have lived in the capital for millennia.

Quote: (01-24-2018 07:16 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

Unfortunately for you, there is a record of what you wrote:

So, again, is Sicily not in Italy? Is Bari not in Italy? Or is Rome a country now?

You don't know nothing about Italy, probably never set a foot in Italy because you don't know simple principle that Sicillians are not Italians. In almost every century, there was a border between Sicily and Rome. So, we were never Sicillian. Still on today, if you go to Palermo or Catania and ask their descendant, they will say "I am Sicillian." They won't say "I'm Italian." When you go to football matches in Italy, if one team is from Sicily, you'll often hear the chants: "You're not Italian, you're not Italian. Go back to your dumbster."

So, here's little Italy history for you. Since I'm from Rome, if you're talking about the year 1700-1800, today's Italy was divided into 4 or 5 state, such as Tuscany, Genoa, Venice etc. So, where I live, my state, Rome wasn't invaded by Muslims anytime in history.

After my state was emerged as Italy, it was never invaded as well. But seems like you're Serbian, so your country has been invaded by Ottomans for more than 400 years, turned your ancestors into slaves and took the most beautiful girls in their harem, bang them all night

After all, Muslims never built mosques anywhere around Rome but if you go to Serbia, you'll find a mosque in every corner, buddy Cheers.

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:21 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

You don't know nothing about Italy, probably never set a foot in Italy because you don't know simple principle that Sicillians are not Italians.

But they have Italian passports.

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:21 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

In almost every century, there was a border between Sicily and Rome. So, we were never Sicillian. Still on today, if you go to Palermo or Catania and ask their descendant, they will say "I am Sicillian."

But they still have Italian passports.

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:21 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

When you go to football matches in Italy, if one team is from Sicily, you'll often hear the chants: "You're not Italian, you're not Italian. Go back to your dumbster."

Football hooligans tend to be dumb and ignorant. I would not rely much on their knowledge of history.

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:21 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

So, where I live, my state, Rome wasn't invaded by Muslims anytime in history.

And how do you know none of your ancestors lived in the Emirate of Sicily?

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:21 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

After my state was emerged as Italy, it was never invaded as well.

Wasn't Rome invaded by the Nazis in 1943 and by the Allies in 1944?

Seems that we have an Italian nationalist troll (INT).

In all seriousness, Italy has been subjugated before, was a vassal state to the Nazis, and then was invaded by the US. Also they lost their king so we can say they're cucked in that regard. Italian unification only began in the 2nd half of the 19th century as well. If the Sicilians aren't Italian, why are they your countrymen?

Italy now is colonized by the EU and the migrants, so I have no doubt the refugees are raping "unconquered" italian women.

My point about Serbia stands-- they should be admired because they resisted much bigger empires for over 700 years, this fact is irrelevant of whether they have been conquered or not, but I maintain they haven't been conquered even if they were occupied, because they kept their religion, their culture, and their blood (most serbs have no Ottoman admixture). And based serbia is yet to be cucked by the EU or Russia. Rossi can't even prove Italian identity has existed more than like 150 years. Battle of Kosovo was 700 years ago, and is regarded as one of the key moments for Serbian identity-- Serb dudes have been fighting a lot longer for who they are, because their identity has existed way longer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo .

Quote:Quote:

After my state was emerged as Italy, it was never invaded as well. But seems like you're Serbian, so your country has been invaded by Ottomans for more than 400 years, turned your ancestors into slaves and took the most beautiful girls in their harem, bang them all night mrgreen

After all, Muslims never built mosques anywhere around Rome but if you go to Serbia, you'll find a mosque in every corner, buddy mrgreen Cheers.

The more I read your posts, the more I suspect that you're not even from Rome but rather, some guido from Jersey with an identity complex.

There is one mosque in Belgrade. There used to be two, but one of them was demolished by local authorities last year. And yes, Rome does have a mosque but unlike ours, which was built by invaders hundreds of years ago (and rebuilt after we burnt it down in '08), yours was built with Roman tax money in 1994 in the absence of any armed invasion.

As far as invasion is concerned, Serbia actually resisted. Fiercely, against a much stronger enemy. This is a point of pride. I suggest you leave Jersey and go visit Rome and you will see for yourself the extent of Roman resistance to an unarmed invasion. Migrants everywhere, rapidly becoming the majority.

Rossi is right about the Sicilian thing, Sicilians dont regard themselves as Italian, nor do Italians regard Sicilians as one of their own.When I went to the Netherlands for Erasmus we had this Italian professor of Sicilian descent, he was giving the History of Diplomacy course of something similar. He couldn't pronounce my name so he always called me Sicilian lol, every fucking class he joked about how I look like a member of the Sicilian mafia and shit

P.S It was the only course I got an A in college, he graded me favorably I think because of my looks

Pretty subjective Thread, I like Blondes and Redheads so Serbia cant be the best country in Europe, at least not for me.

wasn't serbia even bombed to submission VERY recently anyway?
I would not be very proud about the below VERY recent history and serbian shenanigans.... happy to be "slave of the EU" if it means my country is not committing ethnic cleansings...

"Numerous war crimes were committed by Serbian military and Serbian paramilitary forces during the Yugoslav Wars. The crimes included massacres, ethnic cleansing, systematic rape, crimes against humanity and genocide. The International Court of Justice, cleared the Republic of Serbia of direct involvement in genocide, but found that it had failed to prevent mass killings, rapes, and ethnic cleansing.[35]
The war crimes were usually carried out on ethnic and religious grounds and were primarily directed against civilians (Albanians, Croats, Bosniaks). Several United Nations bodies have judged that the aim of these war crimes in various wars was to create an ethnically pure Serbian state, or "Greater Serbia", encompassing Serbia as well as the Serb-populated areas in former Yugoslavia.[7][12]
After the wars in the 1990s, many senior military and political leaders were convicted of war crimes; Radovan Karadžić he was tried and found guilty of war crimes in March, 2016, and sentenced to 40 years in prison. Others, including Ratko Mladić and Goran Hadžić, were not apprehended by Serbian authorities until 2011."

Quote: (01-25-2018 03:41 AM)Themin Wrote:  

wasn't serbia even bombed to submission VERY recently anyway?

From Aviano Air Base. Because Italy is a de facto American colony. What was your point, anyways?

Quote: (01-25-2018 06:40 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

Quote: (01-25-2018 03:41 AM)Themin Wrote:  

wasn't serbia even bombed to submission VERY recently anyway?

From Aviano Air Base. Because Italy is a de facto American colony. What was your point, anyways?

Like most of the western world....

point is, let's tone down singing praises of people who as recently as 25 years ago enacted and supported ethnic cleansing and war crimes...

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:41 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

But they have Italian passports.

Yes, you're definitely lack in geography. Go to Barcelona, ask them which passport they carry on. They will say "Spanish." A minute later, you tell them: "So you're Spanish." and expect to get a slap in your face

Oh hold on, maybe you know Catalans better than themselves too.

Samething for Corsica with French passports, Kurdish with Turkish passport. List goes on. Sicillians are not Italian.

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:41 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

Football hooligans tend to be dumb and ignorant. I would not rely much on their knowledge of history.

And you're not? A person who never set foot in Italy but discussing Italian history with me?

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:41 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

And how do you know none of your ancestors lived in the Emirate of Sicily?

How do you know they did? Can you prove it? At this point, if something exists, you need to prove it. Because I cannot prove something that doesn't exist.

Quote: (01-24-2018 12:41 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

Wasn't Rome invaded by the Nazis in 1943 and by the Allies in 1944?

I don't know what your native language but I said "Muslims", do you think Americans are Muslims? Show me when Rome was invaded by Muslims throughout the history. I'll show you how Serbia got invaded by Muslims, for about 400 years

Quote: (01-24-2018 02:17 PM)Dragan Wrote:  

Seems that we have an Italian nationalist troll (INT).

In all seriousness, Italy has been subjugated before, was a vassal state to the Nazis, and then was invaded by the US. Also they lost their king so we can say they're cucked in that regard. Italian unification only began in the 2nd half of the 19th century as well. If the Sicilians aren't Italian, why are they your countrymen?

Italy now is colonized by the EU and the migrants, so I have no doubt the refugees are raping "unconquered" italian women.

My point about Serbia stands-- they should be admired because they resisted much bigger empires for over 700 years, this fact is irrelevant of whether they have been conquered or not, but I maintain they haven't been conquered even if they were occupied, because they kept their religion, their culture, and their blood (most serbs have no Ottoman admixture). And based serbia is yet to be cucked by the EU or Russia. Rossi can't even prove Italian identity has existed more than like 150 years. Battle of Kosovo was 700 years ago, and is regarded as one of the key moments for Serbian identity-- Serb dudes have been fighting a lot longer for who they are, because their identity has existed way longer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo .

Remember how Trump said "McCain is a war hero because he got captured. I like soldiers that weren't captured."

Samething for Serbians. I don't understand people who call them "special". Special countries do not get invaded by Muslims and ruled by Muslims for 400 years. Sorry pal.

According to this logic, Bulgaria and Romania should be one of those "special" countries too. They also got invaded and ruled by Muslims for nearly 500 years. I like countries who haven't got invaded and ruled by Muslims. Sorry to spoil the party.

Quote: (01-26-2018 05:31 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

Go to Barcelona, ask them which passport they carry on. They will say "Spanish." A minute later, you tell them: "So you're Spanish." and expect to get a slap in your face

Well, Catalans are Spanish.

Far too many Catalans believe that history started with the Bourbon dynasty some 300 years ago. If they knew more about previous dynasties they would know that Spain used to be a geographical term, not a political one. In the old days, Spain = Hispania = Iberian Peninsula.

Castile stole the term. Moscow stole the term Russia from the Medieval Rus', but Belarusians and Ukrainians did not forget about it. Which is why Ukrainian nationalists call Russians Muscovites. By contrast, Catalans forgot their Medieval history.

Quote: (01-26-2018 05:31 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

Show me when Rome was invaded by Muslims throughout the history.

You're right. Rome was only invaded by the Gauls, the Visigoths, the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, the Normans, the Holy Roman Empire, Napoleon's troops, the Nazis and the Allies. You're fucking invincible.

Invading Italy was probably not their priority because Italian women are outright ugly Why didn't we invade France though? That baffles me

What's the situation for latinos (from Brazil) with tan in Serbia? I've heard a lot about racism in Serbia.

This is the second Serbia travel thread derailed by political debate. Please refrain from any further discussion of wars, invasions, etc. unrelated to travel and game in Serbia.

Quote: (01-26-2018 06:22 PM)Soma Wrote:  

This is the second Serbia travel thread derailed by political debate. Please refrain from any further discussion of wars, invasions, etc. unrelated to travel and game in Serbia.

With a thread title like this: Serbia - The best country in Europe , hard to expect anything else.

I've asked this question before, but can't find the answer. What are the Russian speaking levels over in Serbia ?
I am trying to think whether I can practice over there and how easy it would be.

Personally I really enjoyed my trip there, very strong people with a history and interesting perspective on thing. If you are into football (U.K) then I suggest looking at some of the local derby games over there, really exciting albeit a bit dangerous.

Women were beautiful, maybe not up there as somewhere like Moscow, but still really decent. I didn't stand out there much because I look Serbian but I found them friendly on a night out. Wish I stayed there for longer.

Russian levels are not great. The alphabet is really similar, and I can kind of read written Russian, but spoken languages are really not that similar. Regarding your practice - there are language schools teaching it, but they are for Serbian students. If you PM me your requirements I could help you out more.

Quote: (02-02-2018 02:50 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

I've asked this question before, but can't find the answer. What are the Russian speaking levels over in Serbia ?
I am trying to think whether I can practice over there and how easy it would be.

Personally I really enjoyed my trip there, very strong people with a history and interesting perspective on thing. If you are into football (U.K) then I suggest looking at some of the local derby games over there, really exciting albeit a bit dangerous.

Women were beautiful, maybe not up there as somewhere like Moscow, but still really decent. I didn't stand out there much because I look Serbian but I found them friendly on a night out. Wish I stayed there for longer.

Russian is completely different from serbian and can't really understand it if you're serbian, it's not like similar like Russian-Ukranian, or Russian-Belorussian.

I'm with Rossi on this one. There are loads of ethnic/regional identities within states in Europe, but it's natural that they fall in to the laws/government of large and powerful neighbours.

We have Cornwall, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland all within 1 sovereign state, that's probably at least 10 million people out of 65 million who wouldn't identify solely with being 'British'.

In France you have the Bretons and Corsicans, in Spain the Basques and Catalans, in Italy the Sardinians and Sicilians. Try telling any of them they are 'only Italian/French/whatever' and not their real identity, and see where that gets you.

So..................

Getting back on track!

Serbia or Romania?

6 months to a year, going there very soon... good internet/cheap living top priorities.

Ease of obtaining girls a close second



PS - these Serb chicks are smokin' !