[Roardog]

Gentlemen I need your advice.

I am a 29 year old white male and I've recently been promoted at work to a position that covers all of Asia which means I have to move from where I currently am in Australia. Due to the nature of my new position I need to be in a better time zone for Asia than Australia offers.

My company has given me the option of moving to either Singapore or Kuala Lumpur as those are our two hubs for Asia and where most of our Expats are based. I've been to Singapore a couple of times with work, 10 days in total, and passed through KL briefly so while I know SG slightly I wouldn't say I know either city very well.

My salary is the same no matter which city I choose however my accommodation allowance is reduced for KL due to the lower living cost of that city.
No matter where I am based I will be travelling a lot, visiting each country in Asia at least once a year.

My first instinct is to go with Singapore as I am more familiar with that city, its more modern and is not a Muslim country however I have heard a lot of good things about KL from friends and colleagues and the fact that my money will go so much further there is quite attractive.

I have read both the 1+ years in Singapore - Datasheet and Kuala Lumpur Datasheet + Game Guide threads but am still torn on which way to go.

So I am throwing it open to your input fellow RVF'ers. I hope some of you who have been around Asia for a while can drop some wisdom.

[Baga]

Never been to Singapore. Would think that you can save a lot more money living in KL though. Depending how much you earn, will you be able to save up a lot of dough living in Singapore whilst having fun?

[CodyB]

I would choose Kuala Lumpur

Singapore is a better city for sure, things work better and it's cleaner, however, it is boring as fuck. And it is also about the same cost as Australia when it comes to most things except drinking which is about double the cost of Australia. It's fucking expensive.

In KL you will get tons more bang for your buck. Food costs nothing, transport is very cheapand you will automatically be in the upper echelon of working professionals in KL. That won't be the same case in SG unless you earn >$200K per year.

Singapore has a no holds barred nightlife that changes rapidly and rapes your wallet. KL is pretty crap in comparison but can have decent places occasionally.

I know quite a bit of the demographics of both Singapore and KL and I'll break it down here.

First is my "Local Chinese girls are hard to fuck" thoery. Basically, if a girl lives in the city where she is born with her peer group and family around here, chances are she will be better behaved. Singapore is very 'small', much in the same way that HK is and to top it off housing costs mixed with chinese custom dictate that most local girls will not move out of home until they're married. It's harder to get a girl out or to stay over etc. because she is expected back home, and the local slut shaming culture is huge.

Kuala Lumpur you have girls like this as well, no doubt, but being the economic centre of a large country you have many internal migrants from Penang, Melacca, Borneo etc. who come to the city after finishing uni to get their degree. They don't know people in KL, they won't feel so shamed to be with a foreigner and they won't have parents expecting them home.

Secondly, Singapore is a world city with many foreign professionals and super rich locals. You have far, (FAR FAR) less people like this in KL and you will already stand out if you're decent looking. However, in KL the local Chinese blokes feel like every Chinese girl belongs to them and you may get into fights at nightclubs etc.
Expect leers if you walk with them on the street.

But as a foreign professional you will be considered a far greater catch in KL. Most guys are on less than $10,000 a year. Even a top level professional may struggle to crack $30k. This is opposed to Singapore where guys can easily make $100K off the bat and many multiples off that.

KL girls may not be as pretty as Singapore girls, but that's for debate and I'd say a wash in many instances. The locals indians are generally not good looking as they are Tamils. Malay girls are not hot. Girls from the provinces can be hot, especially borneo etc. as they have more in common with Indonesian girls.

KL is a sprawling metropolis. In fact, it's close to an Australian city in terms of how it has developed with quite a bit of sprawl. It's traffic is ok but reputably getting worse, and their public transport is poorly run ala Melbourne. Well equipped but poorly managed. Live close to work. UberX is super cheap.

So yeah in summary.

KL is much cheaper, food is better IMO
Girls will be easier to get with
Far less competition, locals can be douches
It's a big ass cities so handle your logistics

And to top it off, get to KLIA LCCT and fly around Asia super cheap. You will be able to do return trips to anywhere in SE Asia for $100 or less if you get deals, so you could do weekends in Bangkok, HK etc. cheap as fuck.

In short, choose KL.

[Irish]

I been to KL a couple of times and wasn't overly impressed, but that was a while ago. If you asked me 2 years I go I would've said Singapore hands down. However I have heard KL has been getting better while simultaneously Singapore has gone downhill.

Note the experience of living somewhere is vastly different from visiting as a tourist. For example, things like social circles etc take on increased importance. So say if you prefer hanging out with expats then there will be more of them in Singapore

For sure Singapore is a lot cleaner and easier to live in but can feel quite false and plasticy at the same time. KL is dirtier, more disorganised but feels more edgy. As well as there being a larger and more organised expat network in Singapore, if you are into sports then you for sure have better options and facilities here as well.

Any chance you are able to go for a holiday to KL to feel it out before you have to make your decision?

[Phoenix]

Just factor in that KL city will shit you to tears, and you will have dreams about a giant fist coming down from the clouds and pulverizing it.

[CodyB]

And I'll just say that Phoenix and Irish are also very much on the money. KL is very love or hate and retardedness of the place will drive you up the wall sometimes.

I'd say both Singaporeans and Malaysians have massive attitude problems when it comes to service and getting shit done. But in Malaysia, you will find an added density to people in day to day life. Alot of immigrants from Bangladesh especially.

[Roardog]

(01-07-2016 05:35 AM)CodyB Wrote:  

I would choose Kuala Lumpur

**SNIP**

So yeah in summary.

KL is much cheaper, food is better IMO
Girls will be easier to get with
Far less competition, locals can be douches
It's a big ass cities so handle your logistics

And to top it off, get to KLIA LCCT and fly around Asia super cheap. You will be able to do return trips to anywhere in SE Asia for $100 or less if you get deals, so you could do weekends in Bangkok, HK etc. cheap as fuck.

In short, choose KL.

Thanks Cody, you've pretty much summed up what I've been told about KL by friends and colleagues. Unfortunately living near work could be crap as I work for an industrial company so generally our sites are in crap locations i.e. industrial areas.

What is the main KL airport like? I'll be flying a lot and therefore spending a lot of time going to and from and sitting around that airport.

(01-07-2016 05:50 AM)Irish Wrote:  

I been to KL a couple of times and wasn't overly impressed, but that was a while ago. If you asked me 2 years I go I would've said Singapore hands down. However I have heard KL has been getting better while simultaneously Singapore has gone downhill.

Note the experience of living somewhere is vastly different from visiting as a tourist. For example, things like social circles etc take on increased importance. So say if you prefer hanging out with expats then there will be more of them in Singapore

For sure Singapore is a lot cleaner and easier to live in but can feel quite false and plasticy at the same time. KL is dirtier, more disorganised but feels more edgy. As well as there being a larger and more organised expat network in Singapore, if you are into sports then you for sure have better options and facilities here as well.

Any chance you are able to go for a holiday to KL to feel it out before you have to make your decision?

I know a few people who live in Singapore and they have all told me it gets boring fast and they spend all their spare time going to other parts for SEA.
I am into sport and it's one of the primary ways I was planning on starting a social network in a new city, join a few clubs and you get instant access to a whole bunch of people with a common interest. Especially niche sports like AFL and cricket.

I'm not moving for a few months so I've got some time to make my decision. I am thinking about taking a trip there to check it out and get a feel.

The one good thing about KL compared to Singapore is that my company has a dedicated office in KL for people with regional roles, separate from the local Malaysian office, whereas in Singapore I'd just be lumped into the regular office.

I'll also admit that while I like Asian girls, I prefer the lighter to medium skinned type. Dark skinned Asian girls don't really do it for me.

[CodyB]

(01-07-2016 06:25 AM)Roardog Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 05:35 AM)CodyB Wrote:  

I would choose Kuala Lumpur

**SNIP**

So yeah in summary.

KL is much cheaper, food is better IMO
Girls will be easier to get with
Far less competition, locals can be douches
It's a big ass cities so handle your logistics

And to top it off, get to KLIA LCCT and fly around Asia super cheap. You will be able to do return trips to anywhere in SE Asia for $100 or less if you get deals, so you could do weekends in Bangkok, HK etc. cheap as fuck.

In short, choose KL.

Thanks Cody, you've pretty much summed up what I've been told about KL by friends and colleagues. Unfortunately living near work could be crap as I work for an industrial company so generally our sites are in crap locations i.e. industrial areas.

What is the main KL airport like? I'll be flying a lot and therefore spending a lot of time going to and from and sitting around that airport.

KLIA is nice enough. It's rail link is REALLY good. On the same level as HK. Half an hour into the city and about $10AUD as opposed to $40AUD for a shitty proton taxi.

It's comfortable with lounges. Seems relatively quiet in fact. WIFI sucks.

[Sp5]

Singapore. World class cosmopolitan city. Yes, a bit boring, and authoritarian. But high standard of infrastructure and less corruption. Remember, you will be living and working there. KL is also a bit boring.

And - this is a big factor - you can hop on the boat to Batam, Indonesia and be in an easy gaming environment in less than an hour. Johor Bahru in Malaysia a short ride away. SIN is a hub and can catch cheap flights to PEN, BKK, HCMC.

[roid]

LOL at Batam shithole. I swear I will never go there again. Dirty af, not organized, shit food, not many entertainment places, etc.

[worldtraveler3]

Why would someone go to batam to game? Never heard of this before.
KL has nice areas around star hill and lots of expat type environments so the scene is alright. KL is also short trip away from most Asian destinations by airasia. Your living costs will be a lot lot cheaper in KL so more chance to save money.

[Thaitanium]

I would say CodyB makes a lot of good points. A thing worth considering is the vibe in both places. I did not like Malaysia as a country in general and also KL, I liked it less then Singapore. I have only been travelling a few times though. considering all the arguments being made regarding girls, how far your money will go and potential to save, KL is probably a good bet. Also very easy to fly anywhere in Asia for cheap.

Best to check the place out for a while before you decide, see what you think of it.

[natas305]

I've been to both and I think CodyB did a great job with his post summing up the differences. They really are extremely different cities and it's really up to you to decide what you prefer based on what you're looking for and what your situation would be in each.

I will say that I didn't think the girls in Singapore were really that great. I eventually found some cool nightlife in Singapore but I was pretty much over trying to get girls there because of everything mentioned above. My exotic factor and wealth factor went a lot farther in KL and girls seemed much easier there. I left KL thinking it was extremely underrated.

[Roardog]

Last night I used a GPS spoofer to change my location to KL to have a look at the talent there and I must admit I was pleasantly surprised. Lots of bangable girls with the only unattractive ones generally being the Indian (with a few notable exceptions) and headscarf wearing girls. Quite a lot of white girls showed up as well which was a surprise.

My bro speaks quite highly of the talent there. He went on a trip there last year and banged a heap of girls, said it was quite easy if you could isolate them, even the Muslim ones.

Thanks for the great answers so far guys, keep it coming.

[Shimmy]

My vote is for KL. Everything there but drinks is super cheap. Even then they have good happy hour specials. The food is amazing and cheap though. The best part is it's basically the biggest/cheapest airport to fly in and out of in that region and they have a train going straight to the airport. Even if it's not the best place to live you could take trips to new places every weekend and it would cost you literally nothing. Not to mention that the girls in KL for a white guy will be much easier.

[Kamaki4]

Both of these cities are at the top of the list of worst SEA cities for a Roosh Forum member to live. I cannot make compelling arguments for either and it quickly turns into an exercise of less negatives. CodyB's analysis was admirable, but I bet even he would admit that if other cities were thrown into the mix SIN & KUL would not be viable options. I have visited both cities several times and from talking to friends and colleagues who have lived there, the most frustrating aspect is that you are so close to cities like BK and Manila, but a world apart. The verdict, flip a coin.

[Sp5]

Batam is a great place to game - malls and online. Not much different than PI. Not the most attractive place, but neither are the cities in the PI.

Plus, you can bring the girls to Singapore for a weekend because ASEAN.

[Phazlenut]

OP we need more information about your personal tastes.

Strictly from a financial perspective, Singapore would be better even with equal pay because of the opportunity to get poached by rival firms (happens constantly).

Cost-of-Living is 1/2-1/3 in MY, though, and from a banging sloots/having fun/eating out perspective KL would be better for that.

A sort of straddle option would be to live just over the SG/MY border in Johor near the Tuas checkpoint. Then you can have the house with a yard, SG professional networking chances, and Malaysian weekend fun. It will add a one-hour commute, though.

If you do pick SG or Johor, shoot me a PM and I'll take you to a place in SG for drinks.

[worldtraveler3]

Unless your goal is not to save money and switch companies asap within 1-2 years then KL is a no brainier if you are on the SAME salary for both locations. So that means all that's not spent you are saving in KL and that will be significantly more than SG.

[Aaron-]

If you're into modern, higher class and a bit more westernized girls, go to Singapore. If you're into traditional (in the Islam / middle-eastern kind of way) mixed with Asian kind of girls, go to KL.

Congrats on your promotion. Living in either place for a while sounds like a great opportunity, with many exotic islands within 1-2 hour flights from you.

[Roardog]

(01-08-2016 02:21 AM)Kamaki4 Wrote:  

Both of these cities are at the top of the list of worst SEA cities for a Roosh Forum member to live. I cannot make compelling arguments for either and it quickly turns into an exercise of less negatives. CodyB's analysis was admirable, but I bet even he would admit that if other cities were thrown into the mix SIN & KUL would not be viable options. I have visited both cities several times and from talking to friends and colleagues who have lived there, the most frustrating aspect is that you are so close to cities like BK and Manila, but a world apart. The verdict, flip a coin.

Those two cities are my only options.
As far as BKK goes I have been there a couple of times and I hate it. It's dirty, boring and everyone tries to rip you off. I am not a fan at all. I've not been impressed by the Thai girls either.

(01-08-2016 06:50 PM)Phazlenut Wrote:  

OP we need more information about your personal tastes.

Strictly from a financial perspective, Singapore would be better even with equal pay because of the opportunity to get poached by rival firms (happens constantly).

Cost-of-Living is 1/2-1/3 in MY, though, and from a banging sloots/having fun/eating out perspective KL would be better for that.

A sort of straddle option would be to live just over the SG/MY border in Johor near the Tuas checkpoint. Then you can have the house with a yard, SG professional networking chances, and Malaysian weekend fun. It will add a one-hour commute, though.

If you do pick SG or Johor, shoot me a PM and I'll take you to a place in SG for drinks.

What additional info are you after?
I'm not really out to get poached by a rival firm at the moment. My current company is number 1 in the world in my industry, I've been with this company since graduating university, have built a great reputation and a lot of contacts, which is not something I'm willing to throw away lightly.

A house with a yard is not something I'm interested in as I have no family or pets to worry about. I'd much rather an apartment in a central location that provides me with good logistics for pulling.

(01-09-2016 04:01 AM)Aaron- Wrote:  

If you're into modern, higher class and a bit more westernized girls, go to Singapore. If you're into traditional (in the Islam / middle-eastern kind of way) mixed with Asian kind of girls, go to KL.

Congrats on your promotion. Living in either place for a while sounds like a great opportunity, with many exotic islands within 1-2 hour flights from you.

Modern high class girls are a pain in the arse if they're anything like white girls in Australia. I'm not after girls who want to be wined and dined and bought gifts before they'll sleep with me or girls who are high maintenance.

Thanks for the congratulations, it's a great opportunity. I'm really looking forward to the next 2 - 3 years

[Suits]

We need to properly celebrate the fact that you are getting the fuck out of Australia.

[KYT88]

KL as a traveller and KL as an expat are very different ballgames. As an expat your average peers will be on circa. $100k. As opposed to in the west the high end girls are easy to break into. They frequent the main clubs and events, brand partis etc. Your best bet at top shelve is being part of that circle, which is much easier than the west. As an expat in KL you can easily be involved in the scene of opening oarties and private events. The best part is they are mostly comped and you dont soend a dime. KL is much more of a PITA for ttavellers but as a resident it will be easier to clean up at the top level than Sing.

[RichieP]

I prefer Singapore. KL had the least hotties I've seen in any major Asian city, day and night.

According to an expat pal there most hot malay girls get snapped up, covered and married ASAP. And local Chinese and Indians stick to their own cliques. He much preferred SG when he visited.

Malaysia is a small country population wise - 30 million - and the "high-end" of a small hill is not that high. Singapore in contrast is a world-class city. Remember Singapore gets cream-of-the-crop chicks from all over Asia coming to work there - Koreans, Thai, Japanese, Indonesian, etc.

SG also arguably much better career-wise, but may depend on your industry.

You will need to take some weekend breaks from SG though as it's pretty small.

[Cyclone]

(01-07-2016 03:13 AM)Roardog Wrote:  

Gentlemen I need your advice.

I am a 29 year old white male and

Singapore
.