[WestIndianArchie]

Weather gets cold, players start talking about ltrs.

Like clockwork

WIA

[Renzy]

For those considering marriage, perhaps this could be a useful exercise: imagine if you framed the whole thing as a business decision, where instead of taking on a wife, you were thinking of taking on a cofounder for your company.

Would you agree to the following terms:

Your cofounder can back out at any time, for any reason, in which case they get to take 50% or more of the company assets (even if you're the one who did all the work generating those assets), put you on the hook for the liabilities, take your kids away from you, kick you out of your home, and force you to send them monthly checks for the next 18-24 years or face jail time if you fail to pay.

[Saga]

I'm sure the answers involve some complex legalese, but does anyone here know of any reasonably developed countries which don't operate on the basis of "she takes 50% and the kids and he has to grin and bear it" divorce laws?

[Brian Shima]

"Young fellas in their 20s smashing sluts on the regular probably can't comprehend this, but you do evolve as a man and start getting sick of the smorgasbord of sluts out there these days. "

Speak for yourself

[Dr. Howard]

(11-13-2015 09:35 AM)Saga Wrote:  

I'm sure the answers involve some complex legalese, but does anyone here know of any reasonably developed countries which don't operate on the basis of "she takes 50% and the kids and he has to grin and bear it" divorce laws?

Monaco. thread-51634.html

[Dr. Howard]

(11-13-2015 07:04 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  

Man, sounds like a lot of "fake it til you make it" responses here. Who here is married, and thinks they have it working?

I am married. She's non Western, and we have a direction i am happy with.

I will caveat, I knew I wanted to have children one day at age 19. Not to have them at 19, but it was going to happen. Guess what? You need a woman for that.

With what we know with game, its all about you need to be a certain type of man. Roissy describes it best, and I will agree, when you're not prepared for it, its a shock to find out the real nature of women. Once you do, and then know how to deal with it, you prepare properly.

The more mature of us hope we're guiding the rest of you that way.

Firstly, western environs are toxic. They submit too much power to female whims. You have to then extends beyond the reach of western jurisdictions.


Its about establishing control of your life. Once you do, you invite the mother of your children into your life. If you've got your shit together, she's invited because she offers the rights eggs for your children, and the proper nurturing instinct to run your household.


To the OP, it sounds like you've got a proper woman, you just need to structure the other stuff

This right here is the truth. You want to bring a woman onto your team, not create one together.

There is also a secondary revelation in inviting a woman into a life that you already have running like clockwork. That revelation is that she has to drop everything that she has built for herself. If you go an work full time for a new employer, do you get to walk in there and tell them the conditions of your job, when you'll show up for work and that you'll be taking a bunch of time off because you have other obligations? No. You submit to the conditions of your employment.

If you have a life built that can handle another person in it, invite a woman in who will also leave all of her shit behind. You want her to put her loyalty and her fate 100% into your hands.

[LINUX]

Marriage is growing up looking for something like this:



but then you start thinking about gas mileage, how many other men drove it, how long it will last, etc.. and instead you settle for this:




No worries though: players come, players go.

[Quintus Curtius]

My opinion: if you have to ask other people their opinion on what you should do, then you've already answered your own question.

That is, you shouldn't do it.

Marriage is an inherently irrational enterprise. I mean that in a good way. I mean that it is necessary and desirable, but one of those things in life that you have to do based on unswerving conviction. It can't really be based on cold calculation, unless you are a dynast or a king.

You should feel an inner conviction telling you that it is right. If you don't feel this conviction, then it may be best to sit back and see how things develop.

I could be wrong, but this is how I see this matter.

[samsamsam]

Only if you want to have kids and even then convincing her to have kids and not be married is better. Or just move to Ukraine. If you have to get divorced do it in Monaco (there is a thread about some wealthy guy that did that).

[Menace]

Marriage as an institution is only viable in a society that shames divorce. Since this is not the case in any Western Anglo-Saxon country, it is not viable overall.

You actually need to step back even further. Where does the notion that you have to enter into a certain legal contract with a woman come from? You certainly didn't come up with this idea on your own. Yet somehow it filtered into your head. How did that happen?

It's all a mindset. In reality, there are precious few external forces that can compel you to do anything if you don't want them to.

Women desire to feel secure, but at the same time they want (and need) excitement/"romance." Marriage provides the first and kills the second for the most part.

What T and A man wrote is correct. When you are obviously high value, women will want to stay with you on *your* terms. Have no fear of that. Women will do all manner of "unimaginable" things if they are into you.

If you want to show some commitment to a woman that will give her more of a conventional feeling, without all the legal entanglements (predicated on not living in a common-law marriage jurisdiction btw), then:

* have a commitment ceremony (wedding) so she has her princess day
* get her a ring of moissanite (indistinguishable from diamond to the naked eye)
* set aside some money every month into a separate retirement account just for her
* put her on your life insurance policy (if you have one)

In this way, if things don't work out, she leaves with some parting gifts. This is an idea I heard/read from MikeCF. I think it's a good one.

When you have kids, you're responsible for them anyway, marriage or not. Note I say when, because otherwise, it is pointless.

[BigTony]

There have been many good post related to this topic but another thing to consider is whether your girl was a virgin when you met her. Numerous studies have shown that marriages last longer when the female has one sexual partner or less prior to marriage. I personally would never marry unless my lady was a bona fide virgin.

I have a related true story. An acquaintance of mine told me that one of his ex-girlfriends got shagged by a guy(before they met) so badly that he literally tore her poossy up. He went on to tell me that she had to go to the hospital and get a procedure done down there. He said that he could not make her cum. The only way she could have an orgasm was if they used a dildo.

My point is that you never know how many men your lady has been stabbed by. Who knows, when you are having sex with her, she could be thinking about Mr. 14 inch that she had in college.

In my opinion, divorce is high because women have already experienced getting their stuff bashed in by bad boys. If they marry a good guy provider, they will get bored.

The safe bet is to find a woman that is untouched. They do exist in this world. No Hymen, No Diamond.

[worldwidetraveler]

(11-13-2015 06:32 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

I agree, but there are times when fear is irrational and times when it is warranted. Many of us travel to areas more dangerous than our home countries because the reward is greater than the risk. I don't see an upside to getting married in the west, so I think the fear is warranted and the risks aren't worth it. It's often overlooked that a woman demanding marriage is coming from a fear-based perspective. She is afraid of being discarded sometime in the future, and getting formally married is a way for her to allay that fear.

I'm not ready to settle down quite yet, but when I find a woman that I want to have a family with, I think this fear will have to be addressed. They have to understand that marriage changes nothing in the modern era, that if I wanted to discard her I could simply file for divorce, and that if I choose to start a family with her I will do whatever I can to support her and our children. If her family pressured her or she was religious, I would suggest we could be informally married without the paperwork. If she still demands marriage after that, then I wouldn't trust her intentions.

Fear, in itself, is neither good or bad. It all depends on how you react to it.

If someone wants to get married and does not do so because they fear divorce and getting divorce raped, they are allowing their fears to control their lives. Fear being irrational or warranted is a mute point. You still lost control.

If that same someone understands the ramifications of getting married, makes the necessary adjustments to remove as much of the negative consequences that could happen then that person will be living a much happier life.

Even if the worst happens to him he still did it on his terms.

Since we are talking marriage, people shouldn't be expecting to have a sit at home wife and not expect to pay spousal support if a divorce happened. You can't have it both ways. Find a wife that can make the same income or more than you do if this upsets you.

The biggest thing I recommend to anyone making a decision like this is to really understand why you want it.

An example, I was married briefly and got the hell out of it soon after. I found I did it because "it was time" which means I was allowing society to dictate my actions. It really wasn't because I wanted it.

That is why I didn't enjoy it. I never really wanted the same life most people have.

Now, many of my friends are content. They even may be happy. Then again, most of them would be working a job, maybe hitting a bar for some drinks afterwards and heading home only to repeat the same thing tomorrow even if they weren't married.

That type of repetition isn't something that would make me happy or content.

I do think many, if not most, men still romanticize marriage. It's funny, the woman romanticizes about the wedding day (it's all about her). After that, it's an after thought.

Once you understand why you want this, I also recommend never stop working on yourself. Keep hitting the gym, keep your hobbies, keep some time to yourself away from the wife and/or kids.

The last thing you want to do is lose yourself to your marriage. I have seen many guys do this only to get divorced and be lost. Heck, I have seen long marriages where one spouse dies and the other follows soon after. Luckily this was never a problem for me. In fact, one of the reasons I hated marriage was due to taking my time away from the things I wanted to do. haha

[rudebwoy]

Monaco is for ballers, it isn't for regular joes.

Once you live with a woman for 6 months or more, then it is common law. Pretty much a marriage, without the paper and all of the negatives. I have to double check that time period, it seems to always be changing for the worst.

I love the line about earning western money in a non-western country. The dynamics changes in your favour, I have been to countries and spoken to women who were aged 28. They thought they were old and were very aware of the younger competition. They know you can trade them in easily if they step out of line.
Now compare that to the not so hot single mother in her 40's in Canada(insert western country) who can still get dick just by turning on her computer.

As you get older the urge to have a son or children grows stronger, everything else in life is bullshit.

[Robert JS]

Before you commit yourself to marriage I highly recommend this:

Find a forum for divorcing couples in your country and read it thoroughly.

After this you should be in a good position to evaluate the risk you're about to take.

I've done this for my country and it was full of posts by broken men and gleeful women eager to claim their cash and prizes.

My opinion is that however wonderful she is today, your girl is not going to be the same way for the rest of her life.

She can and probably will change. Especially after the following key events:

- When your marriage is legalised.
- When your first child is born.

If you bet wrong you will lose everything: your wealth, your home, and your children.

You might also lose your sanity.

Good luck.

[jariel]

^^^^^^
Good post.

Perspective is rather important, I read a thread recently on the game board from a guy who's been married for two years and he's calling himself a success story.

Marriage is a way for men to take themselves out of the game, a game that most don't want to play anyway; chasing nuts, chasing affection, dealing with rejection on the regular, etc.

It's great that some men do find worthy women to do the real shit with because that's what they really want, but perspective is still needed; nobody should have a new girlfriend, be married for a couple years, or anything of the sort, yet come onto the board with this "Nigga we made it!" vibe like they spit a verse on the remix with Soulja Boy and Drake.

[Col. Tigh]

(11-13-2015 09:35 AM)Saga Wrote:  

I'm sure the answers involve some complex legalese, but does anyone here know of any reasonably developed countries which don't operate on the basis of "she takes 50% and the kids and he has to grin and bear it" divorce laws?

Japan, South Korea, Vietnam. Most of East Asia, probably.

[Renzy]

(11-13-2015 03:54 PM)Robert JS Wrote:  

Before you commit yourself to marriage I highly recommend this:

Find a forum for divorcing couples in your country and read it thoroughly.

After this you should be in a good position to evaluate the risk you're about to take.

I've done this for my country and it was full of posts by broken men and gleeful women eager to claim their cash and prizes.

Great point! In that vain, buying a couple of books off Amazon on Fathers Rights before you get married would also give you a more in depth idea of what you will be facing legally if things don't work out.

[thoughtgypsy]

(11-13-2015 03:54 PM)Robert JS Wrote:  

My opinion is that however wonderful she is today, your girl is not going to be the same way for the rest of her life.

She can and probably will change

That reminded me of an old saying:

"Women marry men expecting they'll change, but they don't. Men marry women expecting they'll never change, but they do."

[Krivo]

(11-13-2015 03:52 AM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

I remember that "most of your RVFers will get married someday thread" as well. The more time that goes by, the more I'm thinking that I'll remain determined to stay in the camp that doesn't. My biggest desire in life has been and remains freedom. Marriage is sacrificing that, or at least compromising it to a large degree. Imagine yourself in future years - do you want the option to move to, live, and work anywhere? To spend time with whomever your heart desires in any given moment? Spend the fruits of your labor and time on any hobby or pursuit you deem worthy? If yes to any of these, I just can't see marriage working out for you. Children and the possible avoidance of loneliness in old age are the main arguments for marriage and they just don't make it worth it for me, at least not now. And as mentioned above, you can't slack off on your game just because your married.

I sometimes worry about who will care for me in my old age, but there is no guarantee that a wife or children will do that. Bad idea to marry now ONLY to prepare for a contingency in forty years.

[olive]

(11-13-2015 01:22 AM)saoconrado40 Wrote:  

I'm around the same age as Roosh (35) so I've been reading with interest his recent columns. I can totally relate to so much of what he is saying. Young fellas in their 20s smashing sluts on the regular probably can't comprehend this, but you do evolve as a man and start getting sick of the smorgasbord of sluts out there these days. You get to the point where mediocre just wont cut the mustard. I don't want to bang a Tinder whore with blue hair and a bull ring piercing just because I can...

I want something more, and I have a great girlfriend from the Ukraine who I have been seeing for a couple of years now. She is definitely keen on getting married, and you know what, in a bygone era I honestly would have been happy to take the plunge. But these days? I just can't see it being worth the risk. Do many of you other guys feel the same? We live together, I'm happy, I just can't see what benefit it would possibly bring to my life. All I can see is wasting tonnes of money on one day and possibly getting divorce raped down the track. She has solid family values, but I look at some of my mates who have been absolutely reamed and honestly I'm shit scared of suffering the same fate. One of my mates was married for about 8 years, then one day his wife comes home and says she's not in love with him anymore. Goodbye house, goodbye car. He looks fucking depressed, he's a shadow of his former self. Turns out she's been fucking a guy at her law firm for two years! Another mate, he had a house, car etc and then his girl decides she's a lesbian and leaves him. Not only that, she was a real bitch in the divide up, milking him for everything he had despite her being in the wrong. Both girls seemed like solid girlfriends and wives. It was scary as shit to see them turn so quickly.

It's sad. I'm a red pill guy, but honestly I'm at the stage where I'm happy to settle down with a good woman and start my family. But I look at all I have to lose, and it is truly terrifying. I used to bang a lot of sluts back in the day, and I'm definitely over them. I see what's out there these days in the singles market and 99% of them are trashy whores. My girl cooks for me, cleans for me, and does all kinds of nice things for me, has DD tits, a hot body and a sexy face. She leaves them for dead.. but how can I totally be sure given my mate's experiences?

Feminism sure has a lot to answer for - it has completely destroyed relationships between men and women. One thing that definitely pisses me off is that the media decries the problems women have finding a marriageable man, but these articles never properly explain that women have caused men to rightly fear the institution.

Thoughts? Anyone in a similar position?

Great topic. Bottom line is you can't be sure. You have to go with your gut feeling and either live in bliss (with your lovely gf, if she stays as is) or possibly get gutted (if she emerges as a wife like your mate's wife). A very high stakes game, follow your instincts.

My instincts tell me "don't even think about it" and I'm perfectly fine with it.

On another note I don't think feminism destroyed anything. This is a word associated with struggle and thus conflict so it can be perceived negative but we need to remember, the radical version of it which is sometimes also called feminism by some (actually should be called "man-hatism") aside, logical feminism attempted to achieve equality and freedom of choice, irrespective of gender or sexuality. It certainly succeeded in improving conditions a bit and it is a good thing for mankind and if you take into consideration we all have mothers, sisters, (and future daughters) it is good for most people that this movement is working on women's well-being (and more recently transgender people's).

[samsamsam]

One more thing, you gotta really want to get married. If you have to overthink it and rationalize it maybe that is a sign you shouldn't. I know I overthink shit, but if I get married, I know there will have to be some strong emotional pull. If it is purely transactional, there are plenty of women out there.

[MrLemon]

It seems like you don't want to get married. Are you just getting pressured by her?

The #1 piece of advice is, never cave to her pressuring. Just say no. If she leaves you, let her.

[olive]

(11-13-2015 10:30 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Let's be honest. You don't want to get married. You are just getting pressured by her, and you're coming here to rationalize and waffle.

You don't need to cave to her pressuring. Just say no. If the leaves you, let her.

Reading the 1st post, I don't think it's that simple.
It seems to me, OP is genuinely interested in the promise of a happy home with kids and a loving wife BUT it's the FEAR seeing his buddies get destroyed by unfaithful wives, ending it all with a single stroke. Sounds like a genuine dilemma.

OP, if you're not absolutely sure, don't risk it.

[Easy_C]

(11-13-2015 09:58 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

This right here is the truth. You want to bring a woman onto your team, not create one together.

There is also a secondary revelation in inviting a woman into a life that you already have running like clockwork. That revelation is that she has to drop everything that she has built for herself. If you go an work full time for a new employer, do you get to walk in there and tell them the conditions of your job, when you'll show up for work and that you'll be taking a bunch of time off because you have other obligations? No. You submit to the conditions of your employment.

If you have a life built that can handle another person in it, invite a woman in who will also leave all of her shit behind. You want her to put her loyalty and her fate 100% into your hands.

Well stated. Like I mentioned briefly in my longer post, you have to get out of the "dude" mentality when looking for a wife and get into more of an employer's mentality....and like an employer, you should be first and foremost screening candidates based on whether they're capable of doing the job(think personality, belief system, attributes, femininity, mental health, etc) before "interviewing" the ones you like (date a smaller pool, but not exclusively yet) and eventually narrow it down to the one who you think is going to be the best wife.

Don't expect them to be perfect: just like with a job, you're looking mostly for someone who has the right attributes and who has the enthusiasm and willingness to learn.

They're still out there. I married mine young(23), and she's very open that she always wanted to be a mother more than anything else. Just yesterday I was in line for an event at my school and heard one of the undergraduates talking about how she was set on being married by 25, and she only seemed emboldened when her peers started looking at her like she was crazy.

[polar]

This topic is obviously very important to all men who would like to settle down and have kids down the road...but most of the points have been discussed to death.

The risks:
-it's unwise to get married in the west or expose yourself to common law
-entitled women will want to take half of your net worth
-risk of getting stuck paying an obscene amount of alimony or child support

Risk mitigation:
-avoid common law marriage like the plague
-don't get married in the west, find a traditional culture where marriage is respected and divorce is looked down upon
-marry a virgin or a very low notch count girl with traditional values, blah blah blah...
-find a unicorn: a virgin heiress with traditional values, who wants to be a housewife, and would have more to lose in a divorce than you
-treat marriage the true old-fashioned way: a merging of two clans and families rather than two people setting out to live for themselves
-create alternative opportunities for the woman to feel "secure" - originally proposed by MikeCF and referenced by Menace above (an interesting idea...)
-asset protection. Nobody's really talking about this.

Not everyone can move to South America, FSU, or SEA.

How do you protect your assets in case of frivorce and avoid being held in contempt of kangaroo court?

• Revocable trusts, Nevada LLC, offshore holding company...something of the sort
• Structure your employment as a contractor for a company which pays you just a modest portion of your income as a salary, and invests the rest (meaning you show a low income for alimony and child support purposes)
• Own nothing on paper, but have access to everything: have all of your major assets owned by a corporation / LLC to which you pay "rent" - so that your house, cars, art collection, etc. etc. aren't yours on paper and therefore not in scope for a divorce (similar to that billionaire getting divorced in Monaco)
• Have a trusted family member or an offshore hold ownership of your assets
• Preemptively contact the best divorce lawyers in your area so they can't take on your spouse down the line due to conflict of interest
• Regularly withdraw cash from your bank accounts due to a gambling problem and bury it in your back yard
  

The question is, how do you set up a working structure without having a seven figure bankroll?