[BIGINJAPAN]

(07-17-2014 07:01 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 06:57 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

Interesting that the US has the capabilities to pinpoint a surface to air system turning on and locking on a target but they can't seem to find a jumbo fucking jet that disappeared

The U.S. Navy almost certainly has at least one signals intelligence (SIGINT) ship in the Black Sea listening to radio communications, SAM missile telemetry, etc. The U.S. Navy does not have a crystal ball to know where a civilian aircraft will vanish so they can send a SIGINT vessel to the region a few days in advance to listen to radio communications and track the aircraft.

I understand what you are saying with a specific ship in the region to monitor a hot zone. But how can one believe with the capabilities of the US to track a missile system turning on, could they not know or at the very least have an educated guess where a jumbo jet went down.

[CPTR]

Have Dutch Nationality. Was on the same flight last week. Truely schocked

[Icarus]

(07-17-2014 07:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm curious to Icarus' background too.

I am an electrical engineer. My interest in SIGINT is just a hobby.

[samsamsam]

(07-17-2014 07:42 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 07:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm curious to Icarus' background too.

I am an electrical engineer. My interest in SIGINT is just a hobby.

Good reply Mr. Bond.

May I call you James?

[Carlos100]

Supposedly, according to this, the plane was in airspace that had been approved for airline transit by the Ukrainian government. The airspace in that area had been restricted from ground level up to 7,900 meters, and the airliner was flying higher than that. Two other airliners, from AirIndia and Singapore Airlines, were in the vicinity.

[Big Nilla]

(07-17-2014 07:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm curious to Icarus' background too. He is well-versed in Eastern geopolitics and history. And also he's good at internet privacy/searching. Probably a spy.

Icarus, note that I gave you a rep point a while back. We're cool.

The only thing that that makes me pause about thinking the separatists shot down the plane is how quickly the west/Ukraine has assembled "proof" that they did it.

For instance, http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17...ight-mh-17

[bojangles]

People on twitter are saying that the video interception was posted a day earlier on YouTube before the attack even happened. @Stratfor has an interesting tweet too

[AnonymousBosch]

And, like Clockwork, the first Outrage and Apology.

American Pie Dork Apologises

[Carlos100]

(07-17-2014 07:01 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 06:53 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

If it's true that the separatists claimed responsibility then quickly retracted it, then that's fairly incriminating. If so, that kind of pulls the rug out from under Putin if he was hoping for a moral high-ground reason to provide more overt assistance to the separatists. Unless they really screw up, I think Kiev may have just won this thing.

I don't think it fundamentally changes anything.

It gives the West justification for escalated involvement and makes it harder for Russia to justify their involvement if the separatists are culpable.

[Big Nilla]

(07-17-2014 08:19 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 07:01 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 06:53 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

If it's true that the separatists claimed responsibility then quickly retracted it, then that's fairly incriminating. If so, that kind of pulls the rug out from under Putin if he was hoping for a moral high-ground reason to provide more overt assistance to the separatists. Unless they really screw up, I think Kiev may have just won this thing.

I don't think it fundamentally changes anything.

It gives the West justification for escalated involvement and makes it harder for Russia to justify their involvement if the separatists are culpable.

Yep, I understand. But I don't think it will change anything on the ground. We'll see. Things on the ground can change fast. However, Kiev is certainly a long way off in regards to winning even though they appear to have the separatists boxed into a little corner.

The problem the USA has is Europe wants no part of this (justifiably).

[Icarus]

(07-17-2014 07:33 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

I understand what you are saying with a specific ship in the region to monitor a hot zone. But how can one believe with the capabilities of the US to track a missile system turning on, could they not know or at the very least have an educated guess where a jumbo jet went down.

Radars have limited range. Aircraft can carry GPS receivers and broadcast their position, e.g., ADS-B, but there must be radio stations listening to those signals, and over the ocean, the only such stations would be modern warships. A better solution would be to broadcast the aircraft position periodically over satellite phone.

The following article explains in more detail:

Quote:

The anguish for relatives of passengers could not be greater. Not knowing the fate of their loved ones. Fearing the worst and yet holding out for hope. All because the aircraft has not been found. And why in this day of GPS and all manner of tracking can’t it be located immediately, let alone days later?

The truth is that there are many areas in the world that are not covered by radar. And many more that are covered only by a single radar station. Oceans and seas have particularly sketchy radar coverage because there is no place to put the radar. Space-based radars are not available for civilian aircraft. Navigation systems on the aircraft know where the aircraft is located –via GPS – but do not broadcast that information back to ground stations.

In terms of finding the aircraft, if it crashed in the middle of the South China Sea, any emergency transmitters on board would emit frequencies that travel well through the air but not very well through water. The black boxes emit a sound signal that travels well under water but the distance the sound travels is also limited when you consider the vastness of the South China Sea.

There are technologies available –some of which are space-based – that have been considered for a number of years but have not been implemented that would address this problem. This accident may drive a renewed interest in use of that technology which I would certainly welcome.

[TravelerKai]

Also the size of the Indian Ocean was a problem, the uselessness of the Malaysian government, plus the Chinese navy hampering the search with incompetence (or on purpose), contributed to the search problems.

[Glider]

(07-17-2014 08:12 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

And, like Clockwork, the first Outrage and Apology.

American Pie Dork Apologises

This guy doesn't learn does he? He said this in March after the other Malaysian plane went missing:

“Nikki is looking for Juan Pablo to say “I Love You.” She’d have better luck looking for Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. #TheBachelor”

[Glider]

This is so fucked up on so many levels.

[Tex Pro]

[BIGINJAPAN]

(07-17-2014 08:29 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 07:33 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

I understand what you are saying with a specific ship in the region to monitor a hot zone. But how can one believe with the capabilities of the US to track a missile system turning on, could they not know or at the very least have an educated guess where a jumbo jet went down.

Radars have limited range. Aircraft can carry GPS receivers and broadcast their position, e.g., ADS-B, but there must be radio stations listening to those signals, and over the ocean, the only such stations would be modern warships. A better solution would be to broadcast the aircraft position periodically over satellite phone.

The following article explains in more detail:

Quote:

The anguish for relatives of passengers could not be greater. Not knowing the fate of their loved ones. Fearing the worst and yet holding out for hope. All because the aircraft has not been found. And why in this day of GPS and all manner of tracking can’t it be located immediately, let alone days later?

The truth is that there are many areas in the world that are not covered by radar. And many more that are covered only by a single radar station. Oceans and seas have particularly sketchy radar coverage because there is no place to put the radar. Space-based radars are not available for civilian aircraft. Navigation systems on the aircraft know where the aircraft is located –via GPS – but do not broadcast that information back to ground stations.

In terms of finding the aircraft, if it crashed in the middle of the South China Sea, any emergency transmitters on board would emit frequencies that travel well through the air but not very well through water. The black boxes emit a sound signal that travels well under water but the distance the sound travels is also limited when you consider the vastness of the South China Sea.

There are technologies available –some of which are space-based – that have been considered for a number of years but have not been implemented that would address this problem. This accident may drive a renewed interest in use of that technology which I would certainly welcome.

So are u saying that only trucking and delivery companies use GPS to track their trucks and tell them the location of their fleet? But somehow airlines wouldnt find that information useful ?

[Mekorig]

(07-17-2014 07:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm curious to Icarus' background too. He is well-versed in Eastern geopolitics and history. And also he's good at internet privacy/searching. Probably a spy.

The plot thickens.

PD: Roosh forum is the target of international spies!!! XD

[Big Nilla]

Kiev sending the lamb to slaughter?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17...d-airspace (note: There are 2 important images at the link that I couldn't pull up.)

Quote:

Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?
While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.

Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.

So perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?

[scorpion]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ju...down-plane

"Hillary Clinton says Russian-backed rebels likely shot down plane

Former US secretary of state declares 'Putin has gone too far' as White House criticises Kremlin's arming of Ukraine separatists"

(07-17-2014 12:06 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

If Russia is blamed for this you can be 99% sure this was a false flag.

Well, that certainly didn't take long. Thanks for clearing things up for us, Hillary.

[Bark]

(07-17-2014 11:08 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

Kiev sending the lamb to slaughter?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17...d-airspace (note: There are 2 important images at the link that I couldn't pull up.)

Quote:

Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?
While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.

Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.

So perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?

Looks like Jason Bourne fucked up. He's paid to be invisible, Nikki can be sent to shoot down an airliner in broad daylight

[Carlos100]

There are going to be some serious ramifications, I think, for this particular plane being shot down, because so many Western Europeans were on board with connections to the Western political and academic hierarchy. For example, prominent Dutch AIDS researcher Joep Lange and his wife were passengers.

[Big Nilla]

(07-18-2014 12:04 AM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

There are going to be some serious ramifications, I think, for this particular plane being shot down, because so many Western Europeans were on board with connections to the Western political and academic hierarchy. For example, prominent Dutch AIDS researcher Joep Lange and his wife were passengers.

This AIDS researcher is an important political person in Europe?

I can save Europe a lot of money on research... don't be a homo or bi guy and don't have sex with them. Poof, almost no AIDS then.

[Maciano]

(07-17-2014 08:28 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 08:19 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 07:01 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 06:53 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

If it's true that the separatists claimed responsibility then quickly retracted it, then that's fairly incriminating. If so, that kind of pulls the rug out from under Putin if he was hoping for a moral high-ground reason to provide more overt assistance to the separatists. Unless they really screw up, I think Kiev may have just won this thing.

I don't think it fundamentally changes anything.

It gives the West justification for escalated involvement and makes it harder for Russia to justify their involvement if the separatists are culpable.

Yep, I understand. But I don't think it will change anything on the ground. We'll see. Things on the ground can change fast. However, Kiev is certainly a long way off in regards to winning even though they appear to have the separatists boxed into a little corner.

The problem the USA has is Europe wants no part of this (justifiably).

Of course it changes everything.

Putin can't maintain or build alliances now. He'll be isolated. EU, US & UN will be all furious -- deservedly -- and tell their sanctions were morally just, even step it up. The result will be that Putin will be more isolated, he already had little maneuvering space with US & Germany picking the other side. Countries like China & India won't want to offend western euro countries over this.

300 innocent people isn't an accident like any other.

[Big Nilla]

(07-18-2014 01:13 AM)Maciano Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 08:28 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 08:19 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 07:01 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 06:53 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

If it's true that the separatists claimed responsibility then quickly retracted it, then that's fairly incriminating. If so, that kind of pulls the rug out from under Putin if he was hoping for a moral high-ground reason to provide more overt assistance to the separatists. Unless they really screw up, I think Kiev may have just won this thing.

I don't think it fundamentally changes anything.

It gives the West justification for escalated involvement and makes it harder for Russia to justify their involvement if the separatists are culpable.

Yep, I understand. But I don't think it will change anything on the ground. We'll see. Things on the ground can change fast. However, Kiev is certainly a long way off in regards to winning even though they appear to have the separatists boxed into a little corner.

The problem the USA has is Europe wants no part of this (justifiably).

Of course it changes everything.

Putin can't maintain or build alliances now. He'll be isolated. EU, US & UN will be all furious -- deservedly -- and tell their sanctions were morally just, even step it up. The result will be that Putin will be more isolated, he already had little maneuvering space with US & Germany picking the other side. Countries like China & India won't want to offend western euro countries over this.

300 innocent people isn't an accident like any other.

No, doesn't really change things on the ground or the fact Russia will still defend it's interests. All it may chance is the tactics with how Russia defends itself against encroachment.

The west likes to pump out the propaganda about Russia being isolated from the rest of the world, but I'm not seeing it. It's superficial. The rest of the world can see through the US propaganda and agitation. They understand Russia does have a legitimate interest in Ukraine that is being encroached on by the USA. Most are afraid to confront the USA on it now, but once it collapses you'll see how few friends the USA truly has. And the collapse isn't far off. Russia just needs to hang in there a little while longer. Russians are much better equipped at suffering than Americans and Euros.

Besides, any real sanctions will boomerang back on the west; mainly Europe. Plus Russia can simply do little stunts to agitate oil higher which will hurt the west while helping Russia.

Putin is patiently trying to pull Europe away from the USA's suicidal foreign policies (for Russia and Europe's benefit), but he's pivoting towards Asia since he can't trust continental Europe to do the right thing right now in the face of Anglo-American pressure. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.

The American govt/elites are great and masterful bullies with friends and foes, but that's starting to come to an end thanks mainly to Putin and the arrogance on how the USA is treating (manipulating) it's allies (France/Germany/Bulgaria just to name a few countries with recent banking issues / fines courtesy of the good ol' USA).

The US dollar as the reserve currency is on life support and now the IMF will have a BRICs bank as competition. The US is desperate which is why they're pushing the pace on chaos around the world.

[Vicious]

(07-17-2014 06:10 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 06:05 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

MH likely ignored this due to shorter flight = cheaper.

Flying some 200 miles North of that route would have increased the cost negligibly and reduced the risk considerably. I am starting to think that Malaysia Airlines is ruled by bean-counting morons.

Well, 2 planes down in less than 5 months...

MH has been under intense economic pressure since the loss or MH307, much of it due to their own incompetence in handling the PR. Talks among the airlines has been that they are on the verge of being kicked out of the One World Alliance of Airlines (where US airways, American Airlines and British Airways are members).

So it's likely that they were cutting every corner.