[seniol]

Approaching a group is actually easier than approaching a pair of girls due to the architecture of female hierarchies and the fluidity involved within them.

Like any group of guys, groups of females have an "alpha" who is tacitly the one in charge and makes the decisions on the group's behalf: Sometimes in a dictatorial sense but usually simply by her opinion holding more gravitas/weight than the others within the group.

This is the "Mother hen" and she is the one you approach.

To identify the mother hen watch the body language of all the girls and pencil in the girl most of the other girls are facing, once you have a suspect watch for when any of the other girls are addressing the group; When they have finished speaking they will quickly glance at the hen to see what her reaction is to what they were saying.

You approach directly, with eye contact and preferably in a way where you have to gently push other members of the group out of the way to get to her.

The mother hen absolutely fucking loves this. Due to the constant scheming and vying for status within her group where value is lost and gained on an hourly basis because of normal female machinations your approach direct to her has cemented her position as the group leader.

If the mother hen likes you (which she does now) you now have full access to all the group from a "preapproved" perspective.

If you had approached another of the girls (particularly a rival for her position) then no matter what you do she will do her best to remove you.

The most effective opener for this dynamic is to use what's known as "extended code" with the mother hen from the outset.

All extended code is in this perspective, is speaking in a way which implies you're well aware of the dynamic not only within her group but also the dynamic between intergender "alphas". This cements your status as a fellow alpha and a guy who "just gets it".

An example would be:

"How long are you girls staying here?"

The extended code literal interpretation she's hearing is:

"You're obviously the leader of this group and probably due to attractiveness so as leader when are you going to decide when you all leave?".

Once she has replied a simple nod and "cool" will suffice then you move on to the true opener. As it's a group then an opinion opener will serve you well. The best opinion opener by far I have used for groups -as it instantly gets every girl interested due to the value of information it provides for their hierarchical wars- is....

"Me and my friends need a female opinion on something, we've just been looking around and have all decided who the three most attractive girls are in here, in order, and want to know whether you agree with us?"

I've seen this opener stop a dozen women yapping with each other in 3 seconds and all turn towards me for such "gold dust". At this point you're friends should approach as the girls cognitive hamster is so focused on what's about to be said that they're no longer on guard in a way they would be if you all approached out of the blue.

The possibilities are endless after this, but as a rule of thumb pick the girls who you are saying as being most attractive by selecting traits the opposite of the group you're now talking to. For example: If they're all blonde then say three dark haired girls are most attractive, if they don't have particularly large tits then pick women who have very large tits as the ones you say you have found attractive. This is a very subtle dread game and the girls will hamster themselves in ways to for you to find them more attractive. If you're interested in psychology this activates what's known as "embodied cognition" and also a phenomena known as "the Pygmalion effect".

The next stage is the "Lockdown". If the mother hen has already stated that the group is staying in the venue then for obvious reason this is not needed, but if she has said they are moving on then you need to "Break the round". A lot of times girls (and usually guys too) will simply enter a bar or pub, have one drink each then move on with everyone unconsciously looking to see how much everyone else has left in their drink and speed up/slow down accordingly so everyone finishes at once.

You lock down by buying the mother hen (and only the mother hen) a drink, even better is if another one of you says "Hey I want to buy her a drink too". This yet again cements her status as the leader but also disrupts the round so the other girls get another drink too. If the mother hen has a drink in her hand and two full ones on the table in front of her then the group isn't going anywhere soon. The group is now locked in for further gaming (complete with mother hen bouncer throwing out other guys who try to approach) and the strategy now is to pair off your group with theirs so you leave as couples to the next venue at different times to "all meet up in the next bar".

Mystery calls this "bouncing" and credit where credit is due it has a profound effect on the dynamic as you and the girl you're taking to the next bar now enter that bar as a COUPLE and she unconsciously invests in you. (Not to mention the fact that any players in the new bar think you're a couple too and tend to leave the girl alone).

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comme..._women_in/

[WestIndianArchie]

Why are you posting this?

WIA

[JayD]

Approaching a group of girls can either be hit or miss, they could be out on a hen's night, birthday party, girls night and just not be looking for dick. You could entertain them for awhile and isolate and bang one (hey, anything is possible!), but they will just continue with their night with whatever priority they had.

I would talk to a group of girls to get the energy up and just have fun and maybe ask what they were doing after this particular venue and say "seems interesting" and tell them to "have a good night" and leave from there and maybe talk to them later if they seem receptive or bounce to that venue later in the night. Any thoughts on this?

[fenetre]

(09-03-2016 12:06 AM)JayD Wrote:  

Approaching a group of girls can either be hit or miss, they could be out on a hen's night, birthday party, girls night and just not be looking for dick. You could entertain them for awhile and isolate and bang one (hey, anything is possible!), but they will just continue with their night with whatever priority they had.

I would talk to a group of girls to get the energy up and just have fun and maybe ask what they were doing after this particular venue and say "seems interesting" and tell them to "have a good night" and leave from there and maybe talk to them later if they seem receptive or bounce to that venue later in the night. Any thoughts on this?

Op is probably dealing with a situation later into the night. Groups like you mention are great for getting in the mood, using the female attention to get a good vibe going, and then leaving them. Leaving them without trying anything on is a rejection of them, which boosts you and leaves them open to picking it up later with you, if they're still around.
Groups should be approached and not avoided.

[Beirut]

Im not convinced that opening the mother hen or whatever you call her is the optimal strategy.

Shes probably the bitchiest of the group and relishes every opportunity to demonstrate that. So wouldnt she then be more inclined to reject your approach as a way to reaffirm to her group her high value?

She would be putting her status at risk if she accepts you directly.

I prefer opening the girl i like then trying to be likeable by her friends after.

I havent tested/studied/thought about it that much though.

[Brian Shima]

Why would you take advice on women from Reddit..

[WestIndianArchie]

(09-03-2016 10:23 AM)Beirut Wrote:  

Im not convinced that opening the mother hen or whatever you call her is the optimal strategy.

Shes probably the bitchiest of the group and relishes every opportunity to demonstrate that. So wouldnt she then be more inclined to reject your approach as a way to reaffirm to her group her high value?

She would be putting her status at risk if she accepts you directly.

I prefer opening the girl i like then trying to be likeable by her friends after.

I havent tested/studied/thought about it that much though.

Well lucky for you, guys have been testing this for more than a decade. Guys all over the world who do this all the time.

1) Group of all girls - open the GROUP.
Handle the bulldog, tease/ignore the target
After successful opener, you have enough social capital to get the logistics and relationships

2) Mixed group - OPEN THE GUYS
Handle the "alpha" male, get the relationships, get the logistics
tease/ignore target

3) Really Large Group -

If the group is so large that it breaks into mini-groups, then you can go straight for the target - but you still have to handle the group's internal relationships and their logistics.

Because when you go straight to the target, it's not like other people aren't watching, and might intervene (i.e. interfere) because they know her situation and body language better than you will ever know.

4) Always get intel

Who's dating who? (oh that's her husband cool)
Who's cousin is that?
They're from out of the city? (and you guys are leaving tomorrow, I have to act fast)
She's the designated driver? (she's gonna be very hard to isolate for the night)
__________________________________________________

Why is RVF so anti-game on the game board?
It boggles my mind. Most of these problems have been looked at and solved.

It's very rare that a cute girl, much less a hot girl is going to be at a venue by herself. These bitches can't even go to the shitter by themselves.

So handling two girls, three girls, more than three girls, a mixed group is the NORM not the exception.

You think Adrian Lima is rolling to the martini lounge solo?





WIA

[XPQ22]

Here's an example from my own experience at a bar a few week ago. How would you work this group:

It's 9 pm and the bar is only about half full. Mixed set of guys and gals, 5 girls, 3 guys. Four of them are certainly bangable. At least two of the guys are probably with girlfriends, though it's a bit difficult to determine who's with who. They're sitting around a table in the lounge, playing Jenga. You stroll over to watch the going on, and you smile at one of the bangable girls playing and she seems friendly. "Hey, we've got spectators! " One of the guys is friendly as well. One of the guys is clearly standoffish. The others are either quietly pleasant or indifferent to your presence.

WWYD

[WestIndianArchie]

(09-03-2016 02:33 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

Here's an example from my own experience at a bar a few week ago. How would you work this group:

It's 9 pm and the bar is only about half full. Mixed set of guys and gals, 5 girls, 3 guys. Four of them are certainly bangable. At least two of the guys are probably with girlfriends, though it's a bit difficult to determine who's with who. They're sitting around a table in the lounge, playing Jenga. You stroll over to watch the going on, and you smile at one of the bangable girls playing and she seems friendly. "Hey, we've got spectators! " One of the guys is friendly as well. One of the guys is clearly standoffish. The others are either quietly pleasant or indifferent to your presence.

WWYD

Bro, I just rely on my Sexual Marketplace Value? Duh!
The RVF thread on the topic is painful to read.

lol

Assuming that you're dressed and groomed appropriately, and you're not a white guy trying to jump in on a Nation of Islam spades tournament...you run proper indirect game.

Now this isn't a the easiest of newb situations, but it's fairly common.

It's why when I read guys going to Madagascar and seeing that all the hot chicks are seated at tables in mixed groups so they leave the club, I start shaking my head.

"Shit's impossible bro"

________________________________________________

First, let's put ourselves in the shoes of the group.

If they came together, they plan to stay together.
If they're doing something together, ideally they're all doing it together at the same time. They're all in the same headspace.

Some members may be staring off into space - which is something you can take advantage of, but assume everyone's into the game.

This group dynamic is the norm. Bunch of people, sitting around, involved in something external.

Other variations of this sort of scenario

- Two chicks seated and looking like they're having a serious conversation

- A bunch of 10 year olds with video game controllers staring at the motion sickness inducing madness and yelling at the screen.

- Bunch of guys watching a boxing match, some of them with money in their hands, making fists at the screen

So how should you approach this situation?

1) An average guy would think to himself -

"Man, these people look like they're really into what they're doing. I'd better not bother them. "

So he doesn't approach. And if you take the average, you get the average.

2) The "brand new to the game" player will think just like the average guy, but

He'll default to game "sniper" mode and try to pick off his target if she gets up and goes to the bathroom.

If he's extra smart, he won't stop her before she goes, but after. He doesn't want her doing the peepee dance while he rattles of his improvised environmental opener. Biologically, she's going to be less receptive on a bladder that needs imminent emptying.

So he'll basically wait it out. And then when the chick is finally accessible, he'll have to jump on her and make a great impression - then use her to smooth over the group - so that he can get back to her.

I guess if you look like Idris Elba that's an option. With your SMV so high that all you need to do is show up and become immediately accepted. Those sort of guys don't need my advice to be honest.

3) The "journey man" player recognizes that if he does interrupt what they have going on - there's a social cost to him for his interruption.

He starts at a little bit of a deficit. So whatever he says or does next, has to add value - i.e. increase the fun/tension/atmosphere - in to what the group is doing.

_________________________________________________

Social Cost and Adding Value

2 most typical situations nowadays
- groups standing, looking around, bored
- groups standing, looking around, bored, on their phones

In these situations, when the player breaks into their headspace, it's not going to cost him much in terms of breaking the social norms and conventions. Especially in social environments. It's a micro-second annoyance that can be easily displaced in most cases. There are oddball situations, but let's focus on the norm.

In my experience, interrupting two people talking isn't as bad as interrupting a girl on her phone. That says something about our modern age, but I don't want to digress

So in this " board game night" situation, it's slightly different. The group is more tightly bound, not as bored.

In terms of social cost
- It's not like you're interrupting a funeral or a wedding
- It's not as bad as pulling the plug on the big game right at the crucial moment
- It's not like breaking into a two person "heart to heart" where one person is obviously upset

So being a spectator, commenting on, interrupting their game isn't going to create immediate emotional backlash that will have them cursing your name, and the guys reaching for their open carry weapons.
_________________________________________________

So how do you add value here?

You want to add value to get accepted into the group, even for the briefest of moments. Once you're into the group, then you get logistics, relationships, and then more value and you can isolate the target.

But breaking in is the first hurdle.

You've been in this group situation before. I know i've had sessions with my boys at venues, and strangers will come and join in. Hopefully they have something good to add.

So now ask yourself,
A) What would spice this game of jenga up?

B) What would be more interesting than this game of jenga?

You have an "in" when someone says "We got a spectator"

A - Spice It Up.

If you can provide color commentary on the action and make it funny, like a Marv Albert is covering the Sheboygan National Jenga Tourney. Make it sound like a golf match or a basketball game. That might be beyond the current powers of most new guys.

or

If you had a buddy, you could say,

"I got 10 bucks that say the blonde weave is gonna make it topple, He's got 10 that say it'll be the chick with the afro puffs"

Now you've got cold reads and incentives within the group to play harder. Which makes the game more fun for them, and gives you a bit of inside into the group.

or

Since it's a mixed group, you could say something about this being a battle between the sexes. Reframing a friendly game into one with more of a competitive edge. This is taking advantage of environment and the scripts that people follow. Anytime you get a girls vs boys mentality going, you turn people into grade schoolers.

Those 3 sort of things would get you "semi" into the group because you gave them some value. Then when the game is over, when the tension is gone, you could go in and banter with them and run game.

B) What could you do or say that's more interesting than the game to get their positive attention on you?

You could obviously interrupt the game and deliver an opener. The social cost is whatever, so you whatever you follow up with should be gangbusters.

"hey my friends are almost here..." (false time constraint)
"but one of them has this problem...."*canned story*...
"what should he do..."

They answer, make fun of their answer, banter on.

or

That's when you work an entirely *different* set with a loud voice and some good material/delivery, and draw your target group's attention away from their game of blocks. (Standard Mystery Method)
____________________________________________________________

That's off the top of my head.

There are lots of other ways, but seated sets aren't uncharted game territory that no one has ever cracked.

WIA

[Suits]

This needs to be moved to the newbie sub-forum.

All of this was covered in the game community more than a decade and a half ago.

This is the problem with dudes disassociating themselves with anything to do with the PUA label because they're convinced that they are too cool for all that.

You end up having to reinvent the wheel.

[Beirut]

(09-03-2016 11:03 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-03-2016 10:23 AM)Beirut Wrote:  

Im not convinced that opening the mother hen or whatever you call her is the optimal strategy.

Shes probably the bitchiest of the group and relishes every opportunity to demonstrate that. So wouldnt she then be more inclined to reject your approach as a way to reaffirm to her group her high value?

She would be putting her status at risk if she accepts you directly.

I prefer opening the girl i like then trying to be likeable by her friends after.

I havent tested/studied/thought about it that much though.

Well lucky for you, guys have been testing this for more than a decade. Guys all over the world who do this all the time.

1) Group of all girls - open the GROUP.
Handle the bulldog, tease/ignore the target
After successful opener, you have enough social capital to get the logistics and relationships

2) Mixed group - OPEN THE GUYS
Handle the "alpha" male, get the relationships, get the logistics
tease/ignore target

3) Really Large Group -

If the group is so large that it breaks into mini-groups, then you can go straight for the target - but you still have to handle the group's internal relationships and their logistics.

Because when you go straight to the target, it's not like other people aren't watching, and might intervene (i.e. interfere) because they know her situation and body language better than you will ever know.

4) Always get intel

Who's dating who? (oh that's her husband cool)
Who's cousin is that?
They're from out of the city? (and you guys are leaving tomorrow, I have to act fast)
She's the designated driver? (she's gonna be very hard to isolate for the night)
__________________________________________________

Why is RVF so anti-game on the game board?
It boggles my mind. Most of these problems have been looked at and solved.

It's very rare that a cute girl, much less a hot girl is going to be at a venue by herself. These bitches can't even go to the shitter by themselves.

So handling two girls, three girls, more than three girls, a mixed group is the NORM not the exception.

You think Adrian Lima is rolling to the martini lounge solo?





WIA

I dont think you could say anything has been solved in the mathematical sense of the word.

I love reading about game but i think the absolute truths that you can get from game material are still stuck at the psychological fundamentals and evolutionary drives that govern man and woman.

Beyond that, once you get into specific techniques and tactics, you find a whole variety of options and theories, that often are polar opposites.

For example, one PUA could say
- always walk fast and strong: you are an alpha male with purpose and ambition and have places to go and empires to build
- always walk slow and controlled: you are alpha male who sets his own pace and disregards those around him.

So basically around the psychological fundamental truth of what being a dominant man is, you can build several conflicting techniques.

Probably in some place theyre all right, and what is optimal will depend on what kind of guy you are as well.

Already for example, theres a slight difference between what you said "open the GROUP, handle the mother hen", and what the OP said "open the mother hen".

Both of what you said comes from game material, and both have justifications.

To me what you said sounds better than what the OP said, but i still prefer going for the target with my opener then the group, maybe right after.

[seniol]

(09-03-2016 11:03 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Why is RVF so anti-game on the game board?
It boggles my mind.

It's very rare that a cute girl, much less a hot girl is going to be at a venue by herself. These bitches can't even go to the shitter by themselves.

So handling two girls, three girls, more than three girls, a mixed group is the NORM not the exception.

You think Adrian Lima is rolling to the martini lounge solo?

I fully agree with you WIA

[Plutoman]

(09-03-2016 11:03 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Why is RVF so anti-game on the game board?
It boggles my mind. Most of these problems have been looked at and solved.

I've got many friends who are naturally disinclined towards "using game" because they look at it the same way a woman does; they don't want to "feel" a certain way, they don't want to actively manipulate someone (but they don't realize they do it subconsciously!).

Really, why do we do anything we do with people? It's all manipulation. It can be beneficial or not. It does not matter. You can think through it, or fail when you try to use your instincts alone (and just be "natural, girls will like it, I'm just filtering by ones who match with me").

Bullshit. That's always a crutch for self-esteem ("I don't deserve the hot girls") and confidence ("I'm afraid to talk to the hot girls"). Excuses are made such as them being bitchy, etc. Nah, it's a matter of using the brain we were given and applying it towards beneficial results. Sitting back and trying to go "natural" is just a guy not wanting to accept what the real world looks like. You don't get ahead that way.

Anyways, rant aside - brilliant comments and thoughts and strategies. Learned from that there.

[seniol]

Women use "unconsciously" game all of the time

[Tex]

(09-07-2016 03:38 AM)seniol Wrote:  

Women use "unconsciously" game all of the time

[Easy_C]

(09-02-2016 11:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Why are you posting this?

WIA

Because he's trying to help. "Game" consists of a lot more than just bitching about "hypergamy" and "hamsters".


That said the actual content needs some work. Theory is all well and great, but please tell us more about how you use it in real life. I'd much rather be actually laid than theoretically laid.

[Tex]

(09-11-2016 02:43 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 11:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Why are you posting this?

WIA

Because he's trying to help. "Game" consists of a lot more than just bitching about "hypergamy" and "hamsters".


That said the actual content needs some work. Theory is all well and great, but please tell us more about how you use it in real life. I'd much rather be actually laid than theoretically laid.

WIA's point is this stuff is day 2 shit. Seniol is trying to help by telling a group of competitive cyclists how to ride without training wheels. We all figured that out years ago. Some of us have won the Tour de France. It's just out of place as its own thread.

What he said is cool it's just basic.

[The Beast1]

Everytime i see a post by Seniol, I expect to see a link to Reddit.

[Comte De St. Germain]

Let's just say the reality of American nightlife is that you will rarely, once in a blue moon kind of rare, see a girl alone at the bar. It's usually also always a red flag.

More than anything game is heavily correlated to public speaking skill than ever these days. If you can't play Medieval Bard and tell tall yarns then good luck with the wenches.


Anyways OP stay off Reddit and get with the program on this board. If you really feel like sharing it the newbie forum fills up with new threads every 5 minutes. You might want to help out there.

Reddit shitposting here is like putting Buzzfeed articles in the middle of Plato's The Republic.