This came about because of the MikeCF, Tuthmosis discussion about the relevancy of the Pua scene to Roissy’s existence.
Sorry this is so long. But this is really interesting to me. Here’s the TLDR,
-The internet ( approximately mid 1990’s )
-Newgroups ( alt.seduction.fast, guys writing about girls, 1994 to now, but really relevant to approx.1999 )
-Fastseduction, a World Wide Web site begun by Jay Formhandle, Alt.seduction.fast basically died after that.( Fastseduction approx, 1999 to 2004, someone can refine this if they have better knowledge )
-Approx 2003 to 2006 – the commercialization of the knowledge of all the posters to a.s.f. and fastseduction.
-The commercialization via Mystery, and others, but particularly David De Angelo because a few of his products leaned on evolutionary psychology a lot. Apparently he was very very successful, so these evo-psych ideas reached a lot of people around the globe.
-2007 The Game….didn’t read it. I heard it’s entertaining, a good read. I suppose countless numbers of guys flocked to the ready and waiting pua sites with dishonest marketing and false promises for only $2999.
Now it’s around 2007 and Mystery and game is huge, and David de Angelos successful mini-empire of Evo-psych laden Dvd products has hit the planet.
It is impossible for me to separate Roissy from this context. I read his stuff last night and was thinking ‘yea this is like this poster from masf” when it came to game.
But Roissy differs hugely from the pua scene in that he brings in feminism and other cultural elements. This was never a part of the pua scene. So I guess he is the guy responsible for the manosphere, but, I can’t see him being born without the pu scene.
That’s the end of the TLDR section.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I know of the scene
For what it’s worth “The Game” to me was the outing of the subculture of “Puas” by Neil Strauss. Basically he cashed in by selling out the underground society. He’d never have done it if it wouldn’t have made cash. (I never read it ). I guess I can see it as somewhat important, but isn’t it just entertainment for the public? It’s not an important book for ideas, it’s entertainment. The real guts were the posters to the Fastseduction website. Neil found Mystery, latched onto him, and then got into the scene, and then made big bucks from his book. There was a whole history behind Neil’s classy move. Archives of guys, very smart guys, writing and writing and writing about their experiences with girls.
Here’s a snippet from Mrsex4uNYC. Remember this is 1999, before the Mystery Model.
Check out what this natural is saying. ( this is for educational purposes only : )
Note the detail, the passion for the subject, 2000 posts of this. There’s way more to the pu scene than the commercial b.s.
MikeCFs’ posts on Roissy here are interesting. I checked out Roissy/Chateau last night.
And compared it to Formhandles archives( jay Formhandle ran a site as big as this one called Fastseduction ) he archived all of the writings of the posters to alt.seduction.fast, which was a part of the World Wide Web known as newsgroups ( which are like a bulletin board which anyone could post to, if they figured out how to use a newsreader). A LOT of credit for the Pua-sphere should go to Formhandle for archiving all of that gold from the newsgroups and making it available to guys via his website Fastseduction.
Guys might want to know that back in 2000, there was no blogspot, or wordpress that you could just get up and run in a week. You had to be able to write code, and I think creating a website cost thousands of dollars. So, regular guys just sought out the newgroups, you could get an email address, figure out how to use a piece of software called a newsreader, and then start posting! Today? even I can start a blog. What Formhandle did was build a website, then archived all the posts from Alt.seduction.fast so we could download them in .txt format.
The Game was entertainment, but, the scene behind that was pretty rich in discussion. I pulled out an old archive of Mrsex4uNyc last night. He didn’t post on Formhandles Website, only on alt.seduction.fast. His archive is 5mb’s in .txt. That’s a lot of posts ( 2012 posts ), and then there are about 30 other archived posters. And consider this is BEFORE Formhandle even built his site. Then everyone who didn’t know about asf on the newsgroups, suddenly became aware of this forum and went nuts.
It’s pretty clear to me that after skimming over some Roissy articles that he clearly could not have written something like “the 16 commandments of poon” and other articles without reading the pua scene stuff. Like, impossible. He veers off hard by not talking only about game, which the PUA guys did, I guess he would be the guy who started the manosphere because he brought in cultural aspects, which I’m guessing he had to, since the pua field had been fully exploited.
David Deangelo, watch his first dvd series. It’s loonnnng, and boring, and he padded the hell out of his product and products with evolutionary psychology to make $$$$.
I never heard of “Sperm Wars” or these evo-psych books. I’m not an intellectual, or any good at getting girls, I wanted him and other companies to stop padding their products with filler ( interesting, but irrelevant to getting with girls ) and get to the damn point.
But, do you know what kind of reach to the public DavidDeAngelo had? It was apparently huge. He was the first to really cash in on the scene and mens needs. But, consider this, now all this evo-psych stuff is being blasted out to the planet via the internet.
So, now game, and evo-psych is being blasted out to the internet via DavidDeAngelo’s very successful products.
Goggles, Tophoats, Boa’s, tricks and tips…this element of the game is like the cherry, on the icing, of a cake. It doesn’t speak to the enormous amount of discussion that occurred behind it. This is merely the commercialization of a pretty rich scene.
Mysterys archive is not too interesting. He was too busy being practical. What he did though was a huge deal. There were all this disparate theories coming from all these posters, he connected all the dots, and made a cohesive model out of it all. Guys need to understand just how confusing it all was with Ross Jeffries saying “it’s NLP’, David D, with “it’s cocky funny’, someone else saying it’s caveman. Ross Jeffries gets noticed because he’s obnoxious and makes a lot of noise. His actual product “ss” is crap. If you don’t believe me, just try it … hahaha. Then, try working out, dressing well, and learn how to be cool ( if you can, to this day this has been elusive to me ). But, if you can do this in a year, you will smoke any dude with NLP skill any day. Mystery was the guy who not only created a cohesive model out of all these disparate theories, but, he was the first to dare to bring it to the street, in field workshops! That was a huge deal back in the day. Ross J, only spoke in a seminar room, and I’m not surprised. It would be a blood bath to bring the weird guys who went to Speed Seduction seminars, out into the real world and start spewing this weird stuff to girls they just met. I guess it could work IF you found the right girl, but, that’s not a way to proceed is it. ‘this’ll work contingent upon finding a highly compliant girl who’ll actually 1) give you the time of day, and 2) hopefully respond to nlp.” Those are two very big asks. Actually, they’re very unrealistic. Goodbye R.J. hello Mystery.
Mystery might be a genius for seeing all this disparate theory and assembling it into a cohesive model. Basically “Attraction, Rapport, Seduction”. But, it’s the verbal skills and psychology needed in rapport that no one has competently covered. Mystery created a great structure, but filled it in with a lot of mediocre to bad junk …. Routines. Some of his routines were awful, ‘You’re like an mp3” WTF??, just watch his infield videos, he can open, deal with shit tests…you know, the technical stuff, it’s the soul he’s lacking.
Sorry this is long, and kind of unfocussed, I guess the point I'd make is this, I can't see how Roissy could have come about without the PU scene. Hope this helps.