[Greek kamaki]

(03-19-2012 08:31 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

One of the reasons you may be getting a lot of it is because you're not cross-examining them. You should! If you don't, she'll think you're either very naive or do not really care about who she is because you have an agenda.

Great insight. How can I cross-examine them?

"Why are you in the club? To find a rich husband? "

What I do is that I ask them the same questions to ameliorate the effect for example:
-Do you have wife children?
-No.And you?
-I also do not have.
(In this case I may be regarded as liar from her point of view because a reasonably atractive man over a certain age in Ukraine is supposed to be married but she has also to qualify herself why she is not married which for women over 21 years old in Ukraine means either not attractive or with character problems).

[oldnemesis]

(03-19-2012 08:31 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Great insight. How can I cross-examine them?
"Why are you in the club? To find a rich husband? "

This isn't cross-examination, this is somewhere between disrespect and making fun of her. Which may work for some girls, but I wouldn't use it.
Cross-examination is something like:

Her: so are you married?
You: nope. Are you married?
Her: I don't believe you. I think you are married. (she ignored your question)
You: I told you already. So are you? (you repeat the question, if she ignores it again - very unlikely since it would look like she's trying to hide something - call her out)
Her: no I do not. Why are you asking?
You: Why aren't you married yet? Most girls marry young in Ukraine.
Her: Because I need to finish the Uni first.
You: Really? A lot of girls get married while being students. (i.e. "is there something wrong with you you're trying to hide"?)
Her: Yes (some explanation). So why are you asking?

She'll get defensive here, good time to switch the topic. If she brings it back, bring it back too. Something like "here we are, two people who aren't married but none of us believes each other". This is also useful because it implies you may be looking for a wife - a dude who is looking for a quick fuck wouldn't really care if she's married or not. But you're making a big deal out of it, so you might have an agenda - maybe you're looking for a wife? She'll be curious about it.

There is a well-known story in Ukraine about a rich millionaire dude from States who came into Ukraine to meet a girl he found online. And since he knew a lot of girls are gold diggers he pretended to be very poor (the story explained in great details how he had to stay in her apartment, got sick and she had to pay for his medicine), then they got married and only then he revealed to her that they're going to States in his personal airplane. This story says a lot about the mentality, and yes, people actually believed this was true.

I don't remember whether you said it in Bang, but someone did say somewhere that you need to find (and communicate to her) the reasons why you're interested in her besides her looks. If she told you she had those qualities but you just accepted her answer and didn't cross-examine her on them she'll think you don't really care about those things.

[oldnemesis]

(03-19-2012 01:07 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

The only way I can describe them in American is they're like very suspicious 7th graders

Suspicious - yes. But why 7th graders?

[hypesession]

this is such an interesting thread. i hope you hack it over there. you can't use sarcasm or be funny? it doesn't apply to the u.s.

i want to know what happens when roosh uses the boring convo tactics. the dialogue parts are cool as hell. how are the discos laid out? it must be like a whole other world over there. it's true most everything i say is just superfluous nonsense it must be nice to talk to someone plain like that

[The Duke]

I got that question a lot in Ukraine.

Her: Are you married?
Me: What?! <Laugh> Why would you ask me that? Are most guys in this club married?
Her: Yes <sarcasm with a laugh>
Me: <Laugh and change topic>

I imply I am not married but I do not directly answer the question. A little jealousy and mystery keeps things interesting.

Also, I never ask a girl if they are married or have a boyfriend. You want them to wonder what you think of them. If you ask that question, you diminish that wonder a little bit.

[dirtman]

I think the advice about "cross-examining" them sounds great. It may just be their way of engaging and showing interest. Perhaps they think you're not interested if you don't do the same, or will think you have an agenda, as he pointed out.

I'm wondering how a full-on direct/smartass response might go down. (I have no idea what the dynamics are like in the moment, but it sounds like they have bullshit-detectors on full-alert.) How about this:

-So why are you here?
-Sex.

and possibly continue with:

-I'm here to have as much sex as I can. (both said with either a wry grin or totally straight face, I can't decide)

Could completely blow you out, but I have to wonder if such a ballsy move might gain traction with some of those girls. Might be worth trying if you're feeling experimental.

[BrownBear]

Dirt, more than likely she will ask "how much you pay" from my experiences.

[dirtman]

(03-21-2012 01:39 PM)BrownBear Wrote:  

Dirt, more than likely she will ask "how much you pay" from my experiences.

Yikes. If that's true it could be a good screening tactic. I think I remember FFY wrote about a college girl that tried to hook him at a bar, though it was in the U.S.

[Roosh]

Quote:

If you ask that question, you diminish that wonder a little bit.

I don't know.. from the girls I've talked to so far, mystery and wonder are not traits they look for. It makes it seem like you are hiding something and therefore lying.

Quote:

you can't use sarcasm or be funny?

My American sarcasm fell off the boat months ago. You can be funny but it's more of a silly humor they dig instead of the witty/dry humor that Americans dig. They don't understand dry humor here. You know the deadpan humor I use in my old Youtube videos? That doesn't fly here.

Quote:

Dirt, more than likely she will ask "how much you pay" from my experiences.

Yeah, saying sex is good when most people who visit that country don't actually come for sex (Iceland, Denmark, Poland). But once you get farther east, there is a sex tourist issue and saying that puts you in a box, even if you were joking.

It's funny that in America I advise beating around the bush and not answering directly. But here you lose points doing that. Greek kamaki's dialogs are, in my opinion, what should be modeled. For all his faulty generalizations, I truly believe he has this part of the world figured out.

[iknowexactly]

What about flat out saying you want to find a wife, which is my situation?

It seems insane to be vulnerable like that to a Murkan like me. But maybe that's why this place seems so much better for romantics ( who screen for cold bitches) and perhaps worse for "playas"

I've got things to do in life, and hanging around opening in bars, restaurants, and on the street seems like an immense waste of time to me-- although I grant that you've got to do it to FIND a mate, to have it as the end seems insane to me.

[Roosh]

I tried the "find a wife" line several times. Problem with it is they didn't know if I was joking or serious, so their reaction was neutral. Of course I was joking and admitted it, so I don't know how it would work if I pushed the fact that I was serious.

[dk902]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

A good one might be - I've set up a new business here?

Then BS what the business is and play it like that.

[Greek kamaki]

(03-21-2012 03:20 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

If you ask that question, you diminish that wonder a little bit.

I don't know.. from the girls I've talked to so far, mystery and wonder are not traits they look for. It makes it seem like you are hiding something and therefore lying.

Quote:

you can't use sarcasm or be funny?

My American sarcasm fell off the boat months ago. You can be funny but it's more of a silly humor they dig instead of the witty/dry humor that Americans dig. They don't understand dry humor here. You know the deadpan humor I use in my old Youtube videos? That doesn't fly here.

Quote:

Dirt, more than likely she will ask "how much you pay" from my experiences.

Yeah, saying sex is good when most people who visit that country don't actually come for sex (Iceland, Denmark, Poland). But once you get farther east, there is a sex tourist issue and saying that puts you in a box, even if you were joking.

It's funny that in America I advise beating around the bush and not answering directly. But here you lose points doing that. Greek kamaki's dialogs are, in my opinion, what should be modeled. For all his faulty generalizations, I truly believe he has this part of the world figured out.

Then I will try to present mostly dialogues with girls from each nationality and omit the explanations and analysis.
Probably I cannot explain properly what I do in English so I will write down the dialogues and let the forum members understand what I do.

[michelin]

Did you already try the "horny beta" strategy that worked so well for you in Poland?

[Greek kamaki]

First of all the German sense of humor(sadistic) is very different from the polish sense of humor(ironic) and the Czech sense of humor(dark) or the Ukrainian sense of humor(folk humor).I can describe this difference by examples.
Let's say humor for swedish girl:
-Do you belong to New Age movement?
-No.
-Then you do not drink your urine.(outrageous and out of borders the swedish girl starts shaking from laughter).

Humor for Czech girl:
-Then the bear told the hunter:My friend,you do not come here for the hunting you come here for the fucking.

Humor for polish girl:
-What if we go together to hunt in rifles?
-Then I might kill you.Then I will sayamn,first time I kill a blonde pig.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10476-...#pid168352

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10476-...#pid161655

[The Duke]

(03-21-2012 03:20 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

If you ask that question, you diminish that wonder a little bit.

I don't know.. from the girls I've talked to so far, mystery and wonder are not traits they look for. It makes it seem like you are hiding something and therefore lying.

Yeah beating around the bush might make you look like you are hiding something, but I think there are universal truths that apply to girls around the world. Mystery is universally good. I agree that it's less good in the FSU, but it's still good. Maybe you being a foriegner is already mysterous enough. I never try to come across as mysterious as if I'm hiding something, rather, I try to come across as honest, a person of character but also a person she wonders about. I try to never reveal more than what is necessary. I try to keep the girl talking as much as possible.

Another thing I do is that I wait several days (up to a week) before calling the girl for the first date. That's done for several reasons, mystery being one of them. This is just my way. Maybe there's a better one -- which is why I'm reading this thread, but being this way hasn't seemed to hurt me in Ukraine.

[The Duke]

(03-21-2012 03:30 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

What about flat out saying you want to find a wife, which is my situation?

I personally think it's a bad idea to bring up marriage when you just meet a girl, unless you are clearly joking around. The risk is that you might come across as weird or desperate. I'm not saying you are, iknowexactly -- I always enjoy your posts.

I also think it's a bad idea to bring up marriage when you are dating a girl. Once a girl falls in love with you, she'll probably start dropping hints about marriage. Only when she's made it clear she's ready do you let her know you are open to marriage. The reason for this is that a girl needs to feel like she's earned you. You need to be hard-to-get (busy, aloof, etc) until she falls in love with you. If you are too easy for her, it will kill her attraction towards you.

It might be possible to talk about marriage early-on and still remain hard-to-get, however I've never tried this so I can comment on this tactic. I play it safe.

My Ukrainian girlfriend is a girl who has professed her love towards me. She's also stated that she's not ready for marriage. I didnt ask, she just brought it up. When she said that, I said "great, neither am I." Clearly, if we stay together, she'll eventually change her tune.

[Greek kamaki]

Example of dialogue with polish girl:
-Are you from Poland?
-Yes.
-Poland is very beautiful.
-May I ask you where you come from?
-Greece.
-Oh,Greece.
-Yes.But Poland is my favourite country.Bigos,pierogi,Zywiec,Doda.
-Ha ha.So you like bigos?
-Of course I like bigos.And your soups are great.Do you like disco polo?
-Oh,no.This music is terrible.And you?You like disco polo?
-Sometimes I like to hear it to enhance my mood.I noticed that polish girls dance very well.
-You want to dance with me?
-Not yet.

Let's say the same dialogue being humorous:
-Are you from Poland?
-Yes.
-Do you speak polish?
-Of course.
-Polska jest bardzo ladna(Poland is very beautiful).
-Oh,pan mowi po polsku(do you also speak polish?)
-Yes.Poleaci are my favorite people.Do you like Doda?
-You know Doda?
-Of course I do.She is very popular here.
-I think she is a whore.
-Probably you prefer Mandarina.
-Oh,no.She is very old.
-Do not tell me that the only music you listen to is disco polo?
-No,this is terrible music.Only people from villages like that.
-But I never stop dancing when I hear disco polo.It makes me move.
-Really you like this music?
-Like nothing else.Everyday I listen to disco polo.I guess your favourite food is bigos.
-Bigos yeah.
-Really great the polish cuisine.And Zywiec is a marvel.
-I like Tyskie.
-What kind of wodka do you like?
-I do not like wodka.
-Impossible.You do not like Zubrowka?Are there any Poles who do not like wodka?
-Polish guys like it.Polish girls not all of them.
-Pity.It gives such a perfume smell.
-Ha ha.True.It stinks bad.So tell me.How long will you stay in Poland?
-I came today from Berlin.The difference is immense.I have to leave tomorrow.
-Do you have polish girlfriend?
-No.
-Why?
-Because I came just today.
-Do you like me?
-A bit.
-You know I cannot become your girlfriend.You will leave very soon.
-Pity really.I wanted to stay in Poland.Berlin is an awful city compared to here.
-You like Germany?
-No,German women are really fat.
-Ha ha.True.They are very ugly.
-It is a torture.I am glad I am in Poland.

[Greek kamaki]

Examples of blocking by duche guys(why it is always important noone overhears your conversation).
Talking to swedish girl:Mr,may I tell you sth?Did you tell this girl to drink urine?Get out of here mthfck show some respect.

Talking to polish girl:
Dude,what did you tell this girl?
-Why?
-She is my fiancee.What did you tell her?
-We talked about Doda.
-Get out of here.
-Man,you are wrong.I am not interested in her.I am interested in her girlfriend.
-Did she tell you how old is she?
-No
-She is just 16.Get out of here.I do not want to see you.

Talking to Belgian girl:
-Man,you know sth.The girl you are talking to has already hit by me.
-To my testes.
-Malakas,I tell you the baby is already hit and you tell me to my testes?

So you have to always move fast and use Balkan power.For example:
-Dude,this girl is my fiancee.Get out of here.
-You are wrong man.She is my sister.
-Get out of here to punch you outside the club.
-Man,you are wrong.I will beat you to death.Do not challenge me.
-Me and my friends will beat you down till you become black mthfck.
-You will fart on my balls.Now fleck,get out of here and let me talk to this girl or I will smash your head.

Chances are in this case he will come back with his friends and start pushing.Or he will report to the door asking to take me away from the club.So as a general rule I never let other guys to overhear my conversations with girls they become extremely angry by this stuff.

[Greek kamaki]

Other examples.
Talking to Czech girls:
-Are you from Prague?
-Yes.
-A great city.
-Where are you from?
-Greece.Athens.
-Greece.Really?
-Yes,have you been in Greece?
-Yes,I have been one time on Corfu and in Chalkidiki.
-Did you like Corfu?
-Yes.
-Were you in Dasia,Sidari or Ypsos?
-We were in Cofu town.
-Oh,really?Did you like Achilleion?
-It is beautiful.
-That is right.Everything built by princess Sissy is beautiful.Austrohungary.
-Yes.How long have you been in Prague?
-Four days.I like Staromestska,Malostranska,Karluv Most.What part do you like most?
-I like Staromestska.
-It is great.This orloj is very interesting.Is it true it has some diabolic mystical meaning?
-They say it was built by apocryphists and

[Arado]

(03-21-2012 03:20 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

If you ask that question, you diminish that wonder a little bit.

I don't know.. from the girls I've talked to so far, mystery and wonder are not traits they look for. It makes it seem like you are hiding something and therefore lying.

Quote:

you can't use sarcasm or be funny?

My American sarcasm fell off the boat months ago. You can be funny but it's more of a silly humor they dig instead of the witty/dry humor that Americans dig. They don't understand dry humor here. You know the deadpan humor I use in my old Youtube videos? That doesn't fly here.

Quote:

Dirt, more than likely she will ask "how much you pay" from my experiences.

Yeah, saying sex is good when most people who visit that country don't actually come for sex (Iceland, Denmark, Poland). But once you get farther east, there is a sex tourist issue and saying that puts you in a box, even if you were joking.

It's funny that in America I advise beating around the bush and not answering directly. But here you lose points doing that. Greek kamaki's dialogs are, in my opinion, what should be modeled. For all his faulty generalizations, I truly believe he has this part of the world figured out.

Roosh, great post and one that deserves more attention. My sense of humor that had girls giving huge IOIs and numbers all over the place get blank looks and backturns like crazy in Russia. It's a bizarre game, and hopefully the forum will provide some more insight.

[Greek kamaki]

It is because Russian humor is different.What is considered humorous in Russia may not be considered humor in other countries and the opposite.For example let's say I want to use humor on Russian girls:
-Are you from Russia?
-Yes.
-From Moscow?
-Yes(crucial here most Russian girls will say they come from Moscow or St. Peterburg to show some class)
-Timati a DJ Dlee?
-Ha ha.Timati.
-Yes,the black Tsar.
-Timati.
-Do you like the Tsar?
-Yes.
-So you are a tsarist?Not a fan of vodka Stalin?
-What is that?I never heard of that.
-Probably you do not know Stolishanya.
-No.(this vodka is mostly for exports so most Russian girls do not know it).
-Probably you turn to Gorilka(Gorilka is Ukrainian home made sometimes vodka it is also the old name for vodka)
-Ha ha.Gorilka.You say it right.
-Have you been long in Greece?
-No,we came yesterday.
-So you like Greek salad?
-I like it.
-I like piroski.
-You like Russian food.
-Everything except katchapuri.But katchapuri is Georgian.
-Are you Greek?
-Yes.And you?
-Russian.
-You look like Russian.I mean the face.
-Have you been to Moscow?
-No,but I would like to.I want to pay pilgrimage to Lenin mausoleum.
-What?
-I said I want to see the Red Square and the Kremlin.Lots of important people like Lenin are buried there.It must be magnificent.
-Yes,Red square is very nice.
-What do you think about Greek furs?
-I like furs.
-Lots of Russians come here to buy furs.How many have you bought?
-Ha ha.I did not buy fur.
-Why?Are you an animal welfare supporter?
-What?
-I asked if you prefer mink furs or the ones from fox.
-From fox?I never heard of them.
-They are very comfortable.Foxy.
-Ha ha.
But here in Greece it is very uncommon to see furs.
-Probably.
-Only Russians buy them.
-Yes,we know Greek furs are good.
-And some Greek women who want to show off wear furs upon their bikinis.
-What?
-I said some Greek women also wear furs.Beautiful.Some men also.
-I do not have fur but I would like one.
-Probably human furs do not count.
-What?
-I said they are expensive.How much does gold cost in Russia?
-Oh,it is expensive.How much does it cost in Greece?
-Here it is cheaper.Do you prefer gold or silver?
-I like gold.
-Good choice.
I see a lot of Russians like gold.Russian women look marvellous all dolled up and with cosmetics.I also lik eDiskoteka Avaria.They have furs and many golden chains.
-They are ugly.I do not like their music.
-Hip hop maniaken.Na ostrien ataken.
-Ha ha.
-Hej dziewczonki,
posmotri se v okno
zacem krassivaye tak muzi...
-Ha ha.

Ukrainian humor.

[The Duke]

(03-22-2012 01:14 PM)ao85 Wrote:  

Roosh, great post and one that deserves more attention. My sense of humor that had girls giving huge IOIs and numbers all over the place get blank looks and backturns like crazy in Russia. It's a bizarre game, and hopefully the forum will provide some more insight.

This could be related to their limited English skills. I experienced the same issue in Ukraine and South America. When people are struggling to communicate they are often not in the mindset for comedy.

[oldnemesis]

(03-21-2012 01:28 PM)dirtman Wrote:  

I'm wondering how a full-on direct/smartass response might go down. (I have no idea what the dynamics are like in the moment, but it sounds like they have bullshit-detectors on full-alert.) How about this:
-So why are you here?
-Sex.

I don't see how it could work at all - unless this issue pops up late in the conversation when the right vibe is set. Culture-wise if she's staying with you after you openly admitted your main interest in her is sexual, this means she's accepting and welcoming your advances (or at least she shouldn't complain about them later). And very few girls would be ok with that assertion.

Not to mention that a "sex tourist" is probably the lease interesting and desirable type anyone around is looking for.

[oldnemesis]

(03-21-2012 03:30 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

What about flat out saying you want to find a wife, which is my situation?

It is very hard to emulate. Girls there know how the guys who look for a wife behave. You better have good answers about:

- Why you haven't found one yet (maybe there is something wrong with you, or your expectations are so unrealistic she wouldn't even have a chance);

- Why aren't you marrying a girl from your own culture (maybe local girls reject you, maybe everyone knows you're a criminal or pervert);

- Are you actually suitable for the marriage (you ask a girl you consider for a wife a completely different set of questions than if you just wanted to fuck her)

And if she does believe you, this means you're not getting laid soon.