[Greek kamaki]

It is the effort to keep it simple.Ukrainian women have an average IQ of 96 while German women have an average IQ of 108.So when speaking to a German woman I would say:
-Are you from Germany?
-Yes.
-Sprichst du Deutsch?
-Ja.Naturlich.
-Bist du aus dem Land der Denker und der Dischter?(do you come from the land of the thinkers and the poets?)
-Ha ha.Yes.
-Deutschland ist sehr schohn(Germany is very beautiful).
-Where do you come from?
-Griechenland.
-Na,ja.
-I know.The crisis.But still we have some good places.I have stayed for some months in Germany.
-Really where?
-In...Interesting city.And I like how you have everything perfect in Germany,the buildings,the roads the discipline.
-There are many Germans though who like more the laid back nature of countries like Greece.
-I know.We are very lazy.How do you manage to work all the time?
-Not all the time.Some Germans are also lazy.
-Yes,but we like to stay all the day under the sun and play the komboloj.Have you tasted retsina?
-I was in Greece on Kreta.
-And did you like it?Pity our roads are not so good like Germany.
-Yes,I was in...
-Kreta is nice.And very big island.People are proud there.I come from central Greece.Do you like Greek mythology?German culture is very interesting.I like your philosophers Kant,Hegel.
-They are very old.Your philosophers Aristoteles,Plato are better.
-I like Germans more.Do you work in Germany?
-Yes,in...
-Interesting.
-You know sth.I am here in this place and all girls are dressed like ha ha.(she points breasts out).They are so (and makes with hands shapely figure) and have tons of make-up.We German women are not like that.We are serious.
-I noticed that.
-We want that people take us seriously.
-Do you want a drink?
-Thank you but no.I will buy mine.
-In Germany I noticed many Pilsner beers.And some others in Berlin.How are they called?
-They are called...
-And carnaval is so nice in Germany.You sell this Grullwein and the Bratwurst.
-Carneval is the best in...
-I really do not get the accent of people in Saxony.I was in Dresden it was great city but I could not understand a bit.How do they talk?Do you understand them?
-Ha ha.They have strange accent that is true.They talk like ...and she starts talking in Saxon accent.
etc.
So it is a completely different lvel.For intellectual discussions with no taboos Germanic women are perfect since they have both the brain power and the knowledge attitude.For light discussions fluff talk etc English.For very simple discussions based on primitive things Ukrainian.

[Roosh]

(03-18-2012 02:18 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

If thats a normal conversation with ukrainian girls..
they dont sound very smart at all.
I can find middle schoolers that can make better conversation than that

When I read your message I thought of american women who complain that guys aren't witty enough.

The guys who stay in this part of the world prefer attractiveness and femininity over brains. I don't judge men who prefer American and Danish women that can talk about politics and the environment and shit like that.

In America, we view conversation as the means to good times. Silences are frowned upon. This is a uniquely Western phenomenon.

Greek kamaki: Keep it coming. Your advice is very accurate for the environment I'm in.

[oldnemesis]

(03-18-2012 04:36 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

This is one of the ugliest cities I've been to in the world. Saying "For fun" is not at all congruent.

You need to put the emphasis correct. Put it on the fact that you can afford to travel for fun and go wherever you want, i.e. you're a "rich dude who travels for pleasure" and not a "free soul who goes whenever the wind goes" (this has very low value there).

Quote:

Last night when asked I said I was here "for work." I gave a recognizable industry name. They nodded, no follow up questions, and the conversation proceeded fine.

To me this would not look like a good sign, I'd say she guessed what kind of work you might do, and it didn't intrigue or impress her enough. Did the conversation sustain for a while after that?

Quote:

Luckystar warned me about having a good backstory. I thought I could use my "writer/traveler/language study" spiel, but the girls are giving many follow up questions as if they don't understand or are skeptical.

I guess the latter as you do not fit into the "writer" stereotype there (it is more like computer programmer), and they cannot figure out what a writer is doing there. For every question she asked there are at least two more she didn't ask, and it is very important to to guess those and answer them as well. An obvious sign of someone who is likely to be lying is that they either avoid to answer the question, or answer it as minimally as possible.

Remember the culture there is focusing on negative (American culture is focusing on the positive), partially most people prefer to avoid negative consequences even if it means a chance to miss some positive experience. People there are far less risk takers than in the USA. If a regular chick leaves with a wrong guy and gets raped or beaten up, the police might do nothing, and half of her friends would tell her "what did you think about leaving with that guy, were you wasted or what?" It is rough environment, and this is why they're very careful. You had the good "scare-the-cat" analogy, use it.

Quote:

Strange but being a "lawyer" or "consultant" here is much better than something like a location independent guy who travels the world.

Is that really strange? I think exactly the same way - because the "location independent guy who travels the world" has much lower long-term potential (if any at all) comparing to a "lawyer".

[oldnemesis]

(03-18-2012 09:46 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I have already written that discussion with Ukrainian girls sounds very simple and boring to western ears.

Yep. The opposite is true as well - a typical Western "discussion" sounds to me like a complete waste of air. Westerners would say an utter meaningless crap just to fill up the silence in the air, and when I listen to that my brain tells me "you're dealing with a retard". This was one of the main reasons I stopped approaching here in US.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Did the conversation sustain for a while after that?

I brought her home!

[oldnemesis]

(03-18-2012 04:22 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I brought her home!

Nice! She was more secure than a typical girl then. Did she travel a lot herself or met some Westerners before?

[Greek kamaki]

I see many are more interested in the practical applications than in the analysis.So I will continue with practical examples:
Let's see again club in Ukraine:
-Are you from Kiev?
-Yes.
-I like this city.May I ask you is this club here the best in town?
-Yes,it is one of the best.But I also go to...
-Where is that?
-It is near Jindropark.
-Oh,I know this area.And this has the same music as here?
-No,it is more pop.
-Lots of interesting clubs in Kiev.
-Yes.Where are you from?
-I am from Greece.
-What?
-Greece.Do you know Athens?
-Of course I know.
-I am from there.
-And what are you doing in Ukraine?
-I came here for holidays but I am also interested in buying an apartment.
-Really?
-Yes,if I see sth worthwile I will buy it.Lots of construction now in Kiev.
-What do you do?
-I am ...And you?Do you work or do you study?
-I work and I stuey.
-Where do you work?
-I am a teacher.
-A teacher with older kids?Do you like children?
-Of course I like.
-Ukraine is really very beautiful.I like very much your rivers and your lakes.And forests here are marvellous.
-Yes.You should visit the Carpathian mountains.
-Really?I have heard about them they must be very beautiful.
-Yes.
-Have you been in Carpathian mountains?
-Sometimes?
-And is it possible to ski there?Did you like them?
-Yes.
-I also would like to visit Crimea.I have heard there are excellent beaches there Sudak,Yalta,Koktebel.Even Gorbachev had a dacha there.Can you go to Yalta by plane?
-Yes,the plane goes to Sympheropol.
-It must be very nice city.
-Yes.How long will you stay in Ukraine?
-I want to stay long to see all these nice places.Unfortunately I will have to leave in a week but I will come here again for sure.
-Is it your first time here?
-No,I was here in the summer as well.
-What did you see in Kiev?
-I saw Lavra,Kreshatik.
-This is all you saw?
-I arrived today.(she wants to check my activities.As a pick up person I frequent Kreshatik,Globus and clubs so not so much sightseeing).I also saw Globus.
-Oh Globus.
-Nice cafe there.
-Why you looking for Ukrainian girls?
-Greek girls are not very nice.
-Why?
-They are very materialistic.
-Ukrainian girls are also materialistic.
-I knw.But I like slavic girls.
-Oh you like slavic girls.
-Yes,but I think Ukrainian girls look the best.I have been in Poland,Russia,Czech Republic and here you look the best.
-All foreigners say the same.
-Because it is true.
-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Why?
-I did not find the right person.And you?
-Children?No.
-Your girlfriend looks also beautiful.What is her name?
-Natalia,come here.This is...What is your name?
-My name is...
-My name is Sveta.
-Nice to meet you.Would you like one drink?
-Not now.I do not like to drink much.
-O.K.Do you like Russlana?
-You know Ukrainian music?
-Yes.I always like to listen to your songs.Russlana,Gaitana,Tina Karol are very nice.
-I do not like them.I listen to western music.
-I see.And you do not like Russian music?Diskoteka Avaria?(then I sing hip hop maniaken no ostrie ataken)
-They are bad group.They send wrong messages to the youth.
-I know.But they are funny.
-So tell me.Where do you stay here?
-I rent an apartment near the center.
-Why do you not live in hotel?
-You mean like Radisson?(she wants to check if I can afford expensive hotel Radisson costs about 250 euro per day if I remember well).I prefer to stay in apartment close to the centre to be able to relax a bit.
-Oh,I see.In what road is your apartment?
-It is in...And where do you stay?
-I stay in ...
-Is this near Jindropark?(shitty area)
-No,it is from the other side of the river.
-Oh,I understand it is close to metro station...
-Yes.
-It is nice there.You have such a beautiful nature in Ukraine.So many trees.
-So till what time will you stay here?
-I will stay one hour more and then go home.I am very tired from the travel.And you?
-We have to go now.
-O.K.Do you have a phone number?
-Why?
-I will call you tomorrow.If you want to visit some nice shops I saw a lot in Kreshatik.If you also know some good restaurants it will be perfect.Do you like sushi?I saw a restaurant called Murakami.
-It is not so good.There are better restaurants with sushi.
-Do you like italian fashion?I think dresses are very nice.
-Yes.But tomorrow morning I will be at work.
-Then I will call you afternoon to meet at evening.
-O.K.then.
Then I hand her my mobile and she writes her number.I call her to testify.It rings.
-O.K.And your girlfriend?Does she have a number too?
-Natalia?Masz nomer?
-Yes.
-O.K.Write it.(I give the mobile to her girlfriend).Does she also like shops?
-Yes.
-And sushi?
-Sushi toze.
-Perfect.Then I wish you a pleasant travel to home and good night.
-Glad to meet you.Have a pleasant night.
-Thank you.Good bye.
-Bye.

[Roosh]

(03-18-2012 04:32 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-18-2012 04:22 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I brought her home!

Nice! She was more secure than a typical girl then. Did she travel a lot herself or met some Westerners before?

Yes she wanted to practice her english. The challenge was getting her home. I had to do a lot of convincing on both of her friends. It was a lot of work and obviously not worth it since I didn't bang. Going for the ONS here doesn't pay off. I think it's better to harvest numbers and then go for dates.

[Deb Auchery]

Had a fantastic day of gaming today, clear blue skies, day game, night game. And it's Sunday, I can't image what i'd be doing on a Sunday night if I was back in London, probably ironing my shirts for the the job I hate.

Went to a few bars tonight, things worked out in my usual place. I spotted a girl who I kissed in Fashion Club a few months ago, she was a bit fat and kissed like a whale, But thankfully tonight she had two tall leggy friends with her. One of them was 21 years old and was telling me how she loves the guy she has been seeing, but they have split up because he can't get it up. He's only 40, a sportsman etc. Her hot friend was telling me how she has lots of offers from guys, but doesn't know which to take.

Anyway my point is that I got a strong reaction this time about being from England but wanting to live in Ukraine, they just couldn't believe it, even when I told them I can live anywhere they just couldn't fathom my presence in their country. Also they could not believe I did not have a girlfriend here, I told them I meet many girls but haven't found an interesting one yet.

Didn't take one home, but I took two of their phone numbers and the hottest one is DTF i'm sure.

Also just before I met these girls I met another very young hipster type girl that I would like to violate, just texted her and she said she wants to meet me.

I just can't believe how lucky I am, life is wonderful.

My only problem I have is that I don't have a reliable wing-man at the moment.

[Sourcecode]

(03-18-2012 03:52 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-18-2012 02:18 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

If thats a normal conversation with ukrainian girls..
they dont sound very smart at all.
I can find middle schoolers that can make better conversation than that

When I read your message I thought of american women who complain that guys aren't witty enough.

The guys who stay in this part of the world prefer attractiveness and femininity over brains. I don't judge men who prefer American and Danish women that can talk about politics and the environment and shit like that.

In America, we view conversation as the means to good times. Silences are frowned upon. This is a uniquely Western phenomenon.

Greek kamaki: Keep it coming. Your advice is very accurate for the environment I'm in.

Don't get me wrong, I'm American too, so I understand where you're coming from.

Now that I think about it, maybe I've been looking at it without a more open mind.
I could care less if the girl has any brains when I'm trying to get her out of her pants.
But I often feel like the conversation is going nowhere when I play the question an answer game.

Maybe i've been assuming the dull conversation, even among German chicks, is because of lack of interest.
It could be the chick is just empty headed, which often causes me to walk off first..thinking this is going nowhere.

Ill have to remember this when I cross the border to poland

[Greek kamaki]

I disagree.With Germanic women you can carry out very deep and interesting conversations.They are not superficial at all.Only Czech women among slavic women can approach this level due to Germanic mix.

[Sourcecode]

When you aren't in the bigger cities(same for alot of places)
Girls often aren't as educated..its hard to say stuff about how I spend a week here or there.
if the girl only says something like "cool""achso" without putting anything in the conversation, it quickly runs dry.

It's known that Germans can be pretty cold sometimes
Especially anywhere in the old DDR regions..
Times are changing and they might not be slavic..but that ideology and mindset is still with alot of people. Even some of the younger girls.

[Greek kamaki]

With Germanic women you need to intellectually stimulate constantly otherwise they get quickly bored.If a foreigner does only fluff talk and asks personal questions they get quicly bored.One has to know stuff about Germany,classical music,heavy politics,social situations and the complexity of Germanic world.These women are very rational and rationalize everything.Germanic women are not emotional they are rational.They will fuck you if they find a reasonable reason to fuck you.
Generally I found Germanic women quite comfortable in discussions as long as I kept the high intellectual stuff going on.The problem with us Mediteraneans is that we get exhausted quickly we lack the mental high alertness of Germanic people because we do not have the same rhythms.I mean a Germanic woman wants a 100% performance and not a 70% or 50%.In this way slavic women are much more relaxing I do not have to keep on the constant stimulation and continuous exhaustion.Germanic women are like tanks who need a lot of fuel to function while slavic women behave more like motorbikes.Mediteranean women are the planes.
Anyway to each with its own taste.If I were younger and more physically enduring I may prefered Germanic women.

[Sourcecode]

And what is your age range?
I think you're heavily generalizing some points. I have yet to find anyone under 25 that cares about any of those things.
Some girls might be impressed that I have a some knowledge about german history/figures and whatnot..but it hasn't made any difference in attraction.

[Smitty]

(03-18-2012 05:09 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

And it's Sunday, I can't image what i'd be doing on a Sunday night if I was back in London, probably ironing my shirts for the the job I hate.

Deb, I probably missed this at some point, but for what reason are you in Ukraine (beside pleasure)? Are you working there?

[sine wave killer]

(03-18-2012 06:06 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

With Germanic women you need to intellectually stimulate constantly otherwise they get quickly bored.If a foreigner does only fluff talk and asks personal questions they get quicly bored.One has to know stuff about Germany,classical music,heavy politics,social situations and the complexity of Germanic world.These women are very rational and rationalize everything.Germanic women are not emotional they are rational.They will fuck you if they find a reasonable reason to fuck you.
Generally I found Germanic women quite comfortable in discussions as long as I kept the high intellectual stuff going on.

(03-18-2012 06:35 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

And what is your age range?
I think you're heavily generalizing some points. I have yet to find anyone under 25 that cares about any of those things.
Some girls might be impressed that I have a some knowledge about german history/figures and whatnot..but it hasn't made any difference in attraction.

Kamaki is on point with assessment (that was hilarious) about having conversations with German women. I remember having a conversation in an eastern city with a solid 8 about the differences between ..well two famous artists (klee, chagall). The thing that got me over that hump was the fact that the conversation was entirely in German. I couldn't have a conversation at home with a girl like that without 1. being label beta 2. her head looking like it was about to explode.

Sourcecode: when you aren't in a bigger city, just say that your traveling with some classmates or something. I don't know if your rolling with wings out there or not but I did that ton's of times. I know exactly which type of girls your talking about..they either say "ach sooooo" or if she has somewhat of a brain it'll be a hard (emotionless) "genau". If she's really dumb it'll be something like "waaaaaaas?" (valley girl voice and all). Usually the women like the one I mentioned in above I'd find around a uni's kunsthochshule , I wouldn't suggest history or art convo's anywhere else.

[Roosh]

Quote:

-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Why?

I got this about 3 times this weekend. I also got:

-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Don't lie, you have a wife.
-No I don't.
-Yes you do. You have kids too.

I swear, I feel like I'm getting cross-examined when I'm answering their questions.

Kamaki your dialogues are great.



It's eerily similar to how my conversations go down when a girl has weak English. When the girl's english is strong, a more Western style conversation is okay.

[The Duke]

(03-18-2012 04:48 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yes she wanted to practice her english. The challenge was getting her home. I had to do a lot of convincing on both of her friends. It was a lot of work and obviously not worth it since I didn't bang. Going for the ONS here doesn't pay off. I think it's better to harvest numbers and then go for dates.

When harvesting numbers in the FSU, I think it's good to spend at least two hours with them and escalate to a kiss or makeout. Going for the ONS has some opportunity cost in that you cant bounce to another club and get another number. However, if you spend time with a girl and make it clear you expect sex, this could pay off on the next time you see her (on your first date).

I remember two cases where I harvested numbers from girls without investing much time -- like for example my wingman wanted to bounce. Then on the first date, I didn't get the bang.

I remember two cases where I went for a ONS, came close but didn't get it. The next time I saw them (first date), I got the bang easily (in both cases).

[Hotwheels]

(03-18-2012 08:34 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Why?

I got this about 3 times this weekend. I also got:

-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Don't lie, you have a wife.
-No I don't.
-Yes you do. You have kids too.

I swear, I feel like I'm getting cross-examined when I'm answering their questions.

Kamaki your dialogues are great.



It's eerily similar to how my conversations go down when a girl has weak English. When the girl's english is strong, a more Western style conversation is okay.

And to think The Greek was on the verge of getting bounced...

[oldnemesis]

(03-18-2012 08:34 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I got this about 3 times this weekend. I also got:
-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Don't lie, you have a wife.
-No I don't.

Sorry Roosh but the last one is a wrong answer there. I'd suggest one of the following:

- Laugh and ask why she insists you have a wife. This allows you to keep it light.

- Tell her something like "you know what, I just met you and you already disrespecting me, what's wrong with you?" This may be harder for a Westerner because most aren't comfortable with invoking the negative emotions (and we do it all the time), but this would let you quickly assert whether she has a genuine concern (she'd explain it) or she's just in a bitchy mood (she'll continue bitching)

Quote:

I swear, I feel like I'm getting cross-examined when I'm answering their questions.

Yes you are!
This is why I said one should lie as little as possible. No matter how good your legend is she'll be able to find holes there. And she will work hard to do it. This is their self-protection mechanism which is necessary for the survival - and they perfected it.

One of the reasons you may be getting a lot of it is because you're not cross-examining them. You should! If you don't, she'll think you're either very naive or do not really care about who she is because you have an agenda. And she'll work hard to find your agenda.

[Deb Auchery]

(03-18-2012 06:48 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

(03-18-2012 05:09 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

And it's Sunday, I can't image what i'd be doing on a Sunday night if I was back in London, probably ironing my shirts for the the job I hate.

Deb, I probably missed this at some point, but for what reason are you in Ukraine (beside pleasure)? Are you working there?

Mainly pleasure Smitty, although I have an internet business that I am neglecting.

[Roosh]

Quote:

One of the reasons you may be getting a lot of it is because you're not cross-examining them. You should! If you don't, she'll think you're either very naive or do not really care about who she is because you have an agenda.

Great insight. How can I cross-examine them?

"Why are you in the club? To find a rich husband? "

[billy]

(03-18-2012 08:34 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Why?

I got this about 3 times this weekend. I also got:

-You have a wife children?
-No.
-Don't lie, you have a wife.
-No I don't.
-Yes you do. You have kids too.

I swear, I feel like I'm getting cross-examined when I'm answering their questions.

this is so typical or Russian speaking chicks and its fucking funny. Girls who don't ask are asssuming the answer is yes and its not even worth asking the question. When a Russian or Ukranian is cold they are freezing, when they warm up they give you everything.

[el mechanico]

In the last few weeks I've been playing with fresh off Russian and Ukraine girls here. The only way I can describe them in American is they're like very suspicious 7th graders

[Pilgrim37]

(03-18-2012 05:09 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Had a fantastic day of gaming today, clear blue skies, day game, night game. And it's Sunday, I can't image what i'd be doing on a Sunday night if I was back in London, probably ironing my shirts for the the job I hate.

Went to a few bars tonight, things worked out in my usual place. I spotted a girl who I kissed in Fashion Club a few months ago, she was a bit fat and kissed like a whale, But thankfully tonight she had two tall leggy friends with her. One of them was 21 years old and was telling me how she loves the guy she has been seeing, but they have split up because he can't get it up. He's only 40, a sportsman etc. Her hot friend was telling me how she has lots of offers from guys, but doesn't know which to take.

Anyway my point is that I got a strong reaction this time about being from England but wanting to live in Ukraine, they just couldn't believe it, even when I told them I can live anywhere they just couldn't fathom my presence in their country. Also they could not believe I did not have a girlfriend here, I told them I meet many girls but haven't found an interesting one yet.

Didn't take one home, but I took two of their phone numbers and the hottest one is DTF i'm sure.

Also just before I met these girls I met another very young hipster type girl that I would like to violate, just texted her and she said she wants to meet me.

I just can't believe how lucky I am, life is wonderful.

My only problem I have is that I don't have a reliable wing-man at the moment.

Load up some photos bud...lets see what the quality is like.
Are you gaming in Ruskie?