[Bill]

Quote:

Slavicization is a powerful force and should never be underestimated.

something for the best of Greek Kamaki

[Hotwheels]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

Do you have any interest in world war II? If so, you could say you are researching the history of the area for a book detailing the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis in Ukraine. Kiev was the site of a large encirclement for instance.

Loads of info out there.

If/when I do get to Ukraine that will be the biggest reason I go. To visit historical war sites and such and see where these epic battles took place.

And tag as many hotboxes as possible of course.

Of course I have no idea how a Ukrainian broad would react to this, but it gives you a good cover and I would be surprised if they would be offended in any way by a guy showing genuine interest in this period of history.

[Subotai]

Damn Greek, are you a PUA or a sociologist? hahaha

Personally, I think it might be the city and the venues. Let's say only 15% (just a guess.. I have no idea anymore what it's like over there) of Russian girls want to date foreign men. If you're in a crappy city and go to a regular club, only 15% of the women could be interested in talking to you. There are no clubs for foreigners, so you're always going to be hitting this 15% number. Furthermore, the chicks interested in moving abroad or meeting foreigners have probably already left that city, unless they're poor, so your numbers might even be lower. Russian girls aren't outright rude to men when they're not interested (at least not the ones in Russia.. the ones in the USA and Europe are a different story), so you don't get the usual shoot-down that you get elsewhere, so it makes it more difficult to gauge the level of interest.

I could speak Russian after being there a few years, but I still found my best bets were with English speakers. Or, if the girl couldn't speak English, she at least wanted to learn English and travel around. The ones that only speak Russian and have no desire to learn English did not have much interest -- I could only get them to be interested by basically implying that I'm going to sell all of my shit back home and take my money and everything and move there and go native. They wanted you to bring all your money there. They basically wanted a Russian man, end of story.

Be careful if you lie and say you're a business man. They're going to expect your apartment to be super nice in that case. If it isn't when you bring them home, trouble can erupt. Probably not a problem if you're one and done with the chick, but if you're trying to go for repeats, it might not work out too well. You need to find a line/backstory commeasurate with your apartment, lifestyle, bankroll, etc.

If you're in a bigger city like Kiev, there are clubs for foreigners like Shooters or Arena.. the girls are basically self-sorting themselves for you. That everyday 15% number shoots up to like 75% in clubs like that. It's easy as hell to pull in those places. You still have to show you're better than the other foreign guys, but believe me, it's pretty easy. Everyone laughs at the local men, but the foreign guys there ain't a sight better. I'm going to have to pull out the feminist line here and say a lot of the men are there (except for the government and military guys) because they couldn't get laid at home. I used to see marriage tours when I was there (think this died out) and those guys were a joke. If you're a guy that can get laid in the USA, you can mop up both the locals and other ex-pats in these bars.

[MikeCF]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

Why not just lie?

"I'm working for the U.S. Embassy."

That explains why you'd have some cash. You're learning Russian because, "I've always wanted to live in Moscow, but I can't transfer to the Embassy there until mastering Russian."

[Roosh]

Quote:

If so, you could say you are researching the history of the area for a book detailing the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis in Ukraine. Kiev was the site of a large encirclement for instance.

I promise you this will not work. You will rarely be dealing with intellectual girls. She will think you are strange. Your answer has to be one or two words.

Quote:

There are no clubs for foreigners, so you're always going to be hitting this 15% number.

I know you pulled that number out of the air but it's actually quite accurate. There are no foreign clubs. 15%-20% of girls put a strong effort into talking to me.

Quote:

"I'm working for the U.S. Embassy."

Then her whole family is going to be breaking down my door for a hook up!

[Greek kamaki]

(03-17-2012 03:12 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

Do you have any interest in world war II? If so, you could say you are researching the history of the area for a book detailing the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis in Ukraine. Kiev was the site of a large encirclement for instance.

Loads of info out there.

If/when I do get to Ukraine that will be the biggest reason I go. To visit historical war sites and such and see where these epic battles took place.

And tag as many hotboxes as possible of course.

Of course I have no idea how a Ukrainian broad would react to this, but it gives you a good cover and I would be surprised if they would be offended in any way by a guy showing genuine interest in this period of history.

WW2 is highly controversial stuff in Ukraine and it is strongly advised not to talk about it.The reason is Ukrainian nationalists(UPA) fought actively against Red Army during the war(actually the fighting in Ukraine ended in 1956 there remained quite a few thousands of UPA fighters after WW2 fighting against communists).Even today the '80 years old nationalists do not lose the chance to fight against the same age communists and they are bloody fights.So any mentioning of WW2 hardly works in your favor unless the person you talk to is an active nationalist or communist and you happen to have the same preferences.(imagine for example talking to a hardcore nationalist Ukrainian girl and explaining to her your admiration for the Red army and the battles it won against the Germans).
It also depends on the region.Western Ukraine is way more nationalistic(UPA was rooted there) while eastern Ukraine is basically pro-Russian(they speak Russian and have a whole lot of Soviet monuments still).
I still remember when I talked to an Ukrainian girl who explained to me they were celebrating the liberation day.But I told her you were also celebration day some months ago.Yes,she told me.In November we celebrate liberation from Germans and in August we celebrate liberation from Russians.

[Hotwheels]

Greek, thanks for the info.

I already knew that Ukrainians were not big fans of the Soviets for the most part but since I haven't really looked into anything beyond the war your comments are appreciated. Not to derail the thread in any way, but pillaging their way across Ukraine was a huge mistake of the Nazis. Before the atrocities began the Ukrainians actually looked at the Nazis as liberators, so deep was their hatred of the Reds.

Seriously, stuff like this is why I'd love to visit the country. It's unfortunate that for the most part the broads are not intellectually capable of having a conversation on something like this.

I'm sure the elders could but it would likely be a touchy subject. Would have to be careful to not come across as taking sides but rather gathering experiences and outlooks from a cross section of the people.

[Spartan]

I like this thread.
I'm also wondering what I should be answering.

I think for me, the best thing is to say the truth.

Her: WHY are you here?
Me: I like Russian women and the culture. I want to find my "second half" here.

-----
Anyone know some other stuff along these lines that might be good to say?

----

I screen out girls who are not interested in travel, but I will be asking more specific questions about if they'd consider to move abroad/to Poland after the first or second date. If they're not open to considering it..might as well know sooner and move on.

I think this blunt, straightforward approach works well here.

The main thing is to escalate and go for the kiss. Thats the thing I really need to work on.
Just say fuck it--and go for it. If it fails, there are several other girls lined up.

[MikeCF]

(03-17-2012 04:00 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Then her whole family is going to be breaking down my door for a hook up!

Maybe.

But if it gets you some quality closes....

If that happens, it happens.

You can always skate, and you'll have layers to add to your story.

[Big Nilla]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

"I need to learn Russian because I plan to import/sell expensive French perfumes and face creams in Ukraine/Belarus. I have 3 sample perfumes back in my apartment, maybe you (and your friends) can come to my apartment and tell me which one Belarussian/Ukrainian women think is the best?

Come on man, you gotta go Greek Kamaki on them and use perfume as bait somehow.

[oldnemesis]

(03-17-2012 09:19 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I do not know why but they connect sex with champagne in Ukraine(hopefully in province it is still the old good Ukrainian champagne Odessa worth 4 euro).

Because champagne has that "romantic" appeal about it - and it helps her to feel your girlfriend, not just a whore.

Also most local guys do not drink champagne at all except for the New Year celebration and marriages (who wants to drink a sparkling wine without incentive?).

[Deb Auchery]

If the girl likes you she likes you, I don't think it matters what you say you are here for.

I tell them the truth, I'm an online entrepreneur, freelancing, trading etc.

Many don't really understand what i'm saying anyway. There was one particular girl who said words to the effect of

"So let me get this straight, the money comes out of the computer?!.......how?!??!"

[oldnemesis]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I will try out "For work."

Why not just say "for fun" and briefly explain what you do (i.e. traveling to different countries and writing the books)? Of course with more emphasis on travel and less on books

This way you wouldn't be lying about it, and you have the proof to back it up - like pictures from the other countries you visited. It also implies you're rich, at least at her level, and it is pretty hard position to shit test it. This also stands you out from sex tourists since most of them say they're there for business, for work, studying or something like that.

[The Duke]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

On the one hand, $6 an hour is good pay in most parts of FSU. On the other hand, going there to "start a business" is probably much more interesting and rich-appearing. You have to remember that wealth is much more important in the FSU than it is in the West.

I know a girl in the Ukraine who spent three months in the hospital over an ruptured appendix. First it was misdiagnosed, then there were complications once they took it out. Lousy medical care apparently is common for the non-upper class. Having your own bedroom in the Ukraine is somewhat of a luxury. It's my understanding that it's not uncommon for families to share kitchens with other families. Meanwhile the rich have servants and are driving around in Mercedes SUVs. The difference in lifestyles between rich and poor is much more dramatic in the FSU.

My Ukrainian girlfriend asked me about other Ukrainian girls I had dated before her. I reluctantly revealed some info about them and she was immediately jealous. I remember one of the first things she said was "did you also tell them you were here to start a business?" She seems to think backstory is important. I responded to her, "yes, because that was my intent." BTW, I plan on returning to Ukraine in a couple months in another attempt to "start a business again" hehe.

[The Fantasist]

(03-17-2012 03:12 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

If/when I do get to Ukraine that will be the biggest reason I go. To visit historical war sites and such and see where these epic battles took place.

And tag as many hotboxes as possible of course.

Of course I have no idea how a Ukrainian broad would react to this, but it gives you a good cover and I would be surprised if they would be offended in any way by a guy showing genuine interest in this period of history.

Good point,agreed.

Personally I travel to the FSU primarily because I have a fascination with the place, in particular it's history since 1917. I love to visit shit holes not only for the women but because I find them architecturally fascinating. I also get a massive buzz from communicating with interesting people in Russian,it's a thrill for me and a challenge. The bonus on top of that is that there are some great looking women there who I enjoy trying to get into bed with.

If it was only about banging FSU women then there are much easier places to do it then in their towns. I'd spend my summers in Bulgarian or Turkish resorts sleeping with a lot more women then I manage in the FSU.
It has a diverse landscape of volcanoes,deserts,tundra,mountains. It has sublime cities like Moscow,Kiev,Samarkand,Peter. It has a fascinating history in places like Volgograd,Chernobyl,Grozny. And it is populated by a people many of whom have experienced lives few of us from the pampered West could imagine and they are often happy to share those experiences to the inquisitive foreigner. I love the place to bits.

Was that beta?

[Roosh]

Quote:

Why not just say "for fun" and briefly explain what you do (i.e. traveling to different countries and writing the books)? Of course with more emphasis on travel and less on books

This is one of the ugliest cities I've been to in the world. Saying "For fun" is not at all congruent.

Luckystar warned me about having a good backstory. I thought I could use my "writer/traveler/language study" spiel, but the girls are giving many follow up questions as if they don't understand or are skeptical.

Last night when asked I said I was here "for work." I gave a recognizable industry name. They nodded, no follow up questions, and the conversation proceeded fine.

I also took Greek Kamaki's dialog advice, bought the drinks, and when my girl went to the bathroom I hit on another girl and made her insanely jealous.

"If you want to talk to her, you can talk to her," she said. She was visibly upset.

"Oh I'm just being friendly. I love practicing my Russian. "

So she stuck with me the entire night and I brought her home. Didn't bang, but I think that's progress.

Deb: The response you're getting for your answers sounds like Poland to me. There I could literally say anything and it didn't matter. Strange but being a "lawyer" or "consultant" here is much better than something like a location independent guy who travels the world. They don't appreciate that... UNLESS they are fluent in English and highly educated.

I'm getting the feeling here that girls think you're lying about everything, so the more complicated your answer, the more they think you're lying.

[Greek kamaki]

It is true western Ukrainian girls respond much closer to polish girls than Kiev or Eastern Ukrainian girls.
Also in Ukraine I never apologize.For example if the girl told me ''if you want her you may talk to her'' I would say ''Ja tebia chotsiu(I want you).Ty krassivaya(you are beautiful) and leave the subject with the other girl vague.A common tactique I use is kiss closing one girl getting her phone number when she exits the club and then come back to work on the other girls I met while she was dancing or waiting for the toilet.In this way I hit on 50% at least of the beautiful girls in club and I have multiple experiences with several girls.Again it is also matter of speed,flexibility and improvization you have to guess where your girl will be so to maximize your chances.Also hit girls sitting or standing by plan on a row so while you hit one the next you are going to hit cannot see you.Sometimes it is rather complex all depends on the disco layout some discos are perfect for pick up if they have two or more floors and chill out place(or with billards) guaranteeing privacy or multiple bars.A big dance floor is also essential.
Generally clubs in Ukraine have a very good layout for a magnitude of reasons(basically lots of people there want privacy for various reasons not just pick up).

[Roosh]

Earlier I wrote:

Quote:

But the conversations are crapping out and I can't figure out why.

Right now I'm pretty sure it's backstory weakness along with trying to have an "interesting" Western style conversation. Asking interview style questions on "boring" topics I'd never ask in America is getting a surprisingly good response.

Last night I asked, "What is your favorite type of music?" I don't think I've asked that in a couple years. Well the girl lit up and told me about her favorite bands and what not.

[Greek kamaki]

Yes,music is essential.I usually ask about their opinion about Gaitana,Russlana,Tina Karol,Vova iz Lvova popular Ukrainian singers or even about TNMK and XL Deluxe.Also about Russian groups like Diskoteka Avaria,Zhanna Friske Dima Bilan etc.

[Greek kamaki]

Good questions are also:
-Do you like dancing?
-Do you like belly dances?
-What films do you like?
-Who is your favourite actor?(some knowledge of Russian cinema is essential)
-Who is your favoutite writer?Poet?Do you like Bulgakov?
-Do you like pets?Do you have pets at home?
-What is your favourite color?

In Russian:
-Lubis tancevat?
-Lubis vostocnie tanci?
-Kakiye filmy lubis?
-Kto eta tvuj lubimi aktior?
-Kto eta tvuj luboj pisatel?
-Lubis zivotnix?Eta u tebia zivotnix doma?
-Kakiye tvaye luboje tsveta?

[Greek kamaki]

(03-18-2012 07:05 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Earlier I wrote:

Quote:

But the conversations are crapping out and I can't figure out why.

Right now I'm pretty sure it's backstory weakness along with trying to have an "interesting" Western style conversation. Asking interview style questions on "boring" topics I'd never ask in America is getting a surprisingly good response.

Last night I asked, "What is your favorite type of music?" I don't think I've asked that in a couple years. Well the girl lit up and told me about her favorite bands and what not.

I have already written that discussion with Ukrainian girls sounds very simple and boring to western ears.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10787-...#pid167070

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10609-...#pid163959

Then I was accused for saying EE women are dumb.

[Pilgrim37]

Sounds like they like Solid Question /Answer sessions.

Specific and traditional Job Titles. Lawyer ,Doctor,I work for this international ..... company etc etc

No wishy washy" I do a bit of this and a bit of that."

Sounds like they're hot on a "Secure" lifestyle when it comes to men ,about 5 or 10 years before their average Western counterparts starts worrying.

So sounds like "Serious...man on a mission" Game is required!

Interesting to see how Industrial Shithole varies from St Petersburg and Moscow and Kiev.

The In. Sh. city girls might still be quite traditional compared to the Big City girls.

[Greek kamaki]

You have to have a decent proffession.I can imagine why guys like Mystery fled from Eastern Europe in a hurry when they thought they would find heaven.
Let's see some other good questions.For example after opening:
-Are you drom Kiev?(Lvov?)
-Yes.
-It is very beautiful city.Do you like Kreshatik?(it is central street in Kiev) or Do you like operni Teatr?(central opera house in Lvov very famous)
-Yes.
-They are really very beautiful.And Ukrainian food is great.Do you like borsh vareniki?
-Oh,you you like borsh?(this is surprise for her because borsh is supposed to be for poor individuals every day food).
-Yes,I like Ukrainski borsh.It is excellent.Can you cook?
-Yes.
-Will you cook for me?Who cooks better?You or your girlfriend?
-My girlfriend is called Natalia.
-Oitsien prijatno(nice to meet you) while shaking hands.Do you like more vodka or wine?
-I like red wine.
-And Natalia?
-She likes vodka.
-So now you drink red wine?
-No,I drink beer.
-I will get for you some wine.And a vodka for Natalia.Or not?Ask her.
-Ej,Natalia chotsies vodka?-Da.
-O.K. girls,I am going to go for your drinks to the bar and come in some minutes.
-O.K. we will wait.
Then while I get the drinks with them in hand I approach another stunning girl.
-Are you from Kiev?
-Da.
-I really like this city.Would you like a drink?
-Do you carry these drinks for me?
-No,they are not for you.Do you like swimming?
-I like.
-Then come to Greece.I am from Greece.You will swim there a lot.
-It is my dream to come to Greece.
-O.K. we may go to Kreta.We have many nice islands.O.K. now just a moment and I will be back.
-O.K.
Then I come back to the former girls:
-Here are your drinks.
-Thank you.Where have you been so long?
-Good things take time.Cheers.
-Cheers(nazdarovie).Then I touch both of them on their thighs or touch the one on thigh and the other on buttock.
-Girls tell me why Ukrainian girls are so beautiful?
-We do not know.
-I think it is Ukrainian champagne Odessa.
-What?
-I said you have a champagne called Odessa.
-Yes,but it is very bad.
-Pity.Do you like ouzo?
-What is that?
-Greek drink.Do you like Metaxa?
-Yes.
-I have brought some bottles of Metaxa.We may drink it later but I want to eat first.You say you can cook?
-Yes.
-A podruska?(and your girlfriend?)
-A podruska toze.(my girlfriend as well).
-Then I may try,but it if it is bad food I may whip you.
-What?
-I asked who kisses better you or your girlfriend?
-I do not know.I have never kissed her.
-O.K.We will find out(probovaem).What do you think about disco polo?(popular music in Poland especially in villages).
-What is that?
-You do not know disco polo?What music do you like?
-I like pop.
-Like Diskoteka Avaria?
-No.I hate them.I like American pop like Britney Spears.
-She is good singer.
-Yes.
-You also like dancing?
-Yes.Do you want to dance for us?
-Not now.But if you want to dance you may go.
-Come with us.But if you stay here watch out our bags.
-O.K.
Then they go dancing and I come to the girl I previously met.
-Hi.
-Hi.Where have you been?
-I was talking to some acquaintances of mine.
-I waited here.
-I remember you wanted a cocktail vodka with orange juice.
-No,I wanted Martini.
-O.K then Wait a second.
I bring Martini.
-Cheers.
-Cheers.What do you drink?
-I drink beer.
-Beer?Why?(very cheap and low class)
-I like Czech beer and they have Pilsner Urquell here.
-So you are from Greece?
-Yes.Have you been?
-No.
-I have been to Ukraine.Very nice country.And I think Ukrainian women are the best.
-This is true.
-I have been to Poland,Russia,Belarus,Czech Republic but truly only here are the women so hot.
-This is true and all foreigners say the same.Ukrainian women are the best.
-You are also very beautiful.
-Thank you.
-You have very beautiful eyes.What color are they?
-They are blue.
-Very beautiful.And I like your hair(while touching her hair).Ukrainian fashion is very nice.
-Girls dress good here.
-What do you think about Ukrainian guys?Are they not handsome?
-I hate Ukrainian boys.
-Why?
-They are ugly.
-Do you like Russlana?
-No.She is old now.
-Do you like Serduska?
-He is a tranny.
-But he was in eurovision.
-Yes.
-Ein,zwei,drei Polizei.Do you like Elena Paparizou?
-She is very beautiful.
-Yes,she won.Where you in eurovision in Kiev?
-No.I could not come.
-Do you have a phone number?
-Yes,here is my number.
-O.K.,now I need to go to the toilet.I will be here right after.
-O.K.
Then I pick up a different set of girls while returning to the former ones.

[Sourcecode]

If thats a normal conversation with ukrainian girls..
they dont sound very smart at all.
I can find middle schoolers that can make better conversation than that

[chairman]

Who cares if they are smart dumb girls are easier to manipulate.