[Roosh]

It's hard. Night game, anyway.

The initial approach is going fine... I'm getting warm responses. Girls ask me where I'm from, etc. But the conversations are crapping out and I can't figure out why. It doesn't help that the girls don't really talk much, because of both a language barrier and their shy nature.

6s and lower are easy. 8s and 9s seem impossible to pull from the club. I don't see other guys doing it. 7s are a mixed bag, sometimes easy, sometimes hard. One night stands... forget it.

It's not as bad as Latvia, but somewhat similar. I feel like I'm hitting a lot of foul balls. So I am making contact with the ball, but not rounding the bases. Unless the girl is REALLY into me from the beginning, I have no idea what the optimum game is.

It's also not about making it rain or buying girls drinks. There are rich guys who floss but don't pull either.

When you don't see other guys in the club pulling the type of girl you want, it's hard to know what to try.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Could you drop some clues about where you are? It helps to know the country you are in so that we know what to expect from that place. I know you have security concerns, but maybe a couple of subtle clues might help. Not too subtle though.

[The Duke]

Sounds like you need to do more A/B testing. Try out different looks/styles/openers/etc.

(03-16-2012 11:10 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Unless the girl is REALLY into me from the beginning, I have no idea what the optimum game is.

If you dont feel the right initial vibe, maybe just move on?

[scotian]

Is pulling there due to the fact that the city is an industrial shit hole or due to cultural differences? How is the male:female ratio in the city, average age, etc. These are important factors, good luck!

[drymarro]

Roosh, have you been daygaming at all?

[Greek kamaki]

I have already explained the situation.This is how I run pick up in Kiev night clubs.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10771-...#pid178742

This is common day game in province.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10771-...#pid178730

[Greek kamaki]

Ukrainian women do not talk so much like polish.One needs to be sharp and to the point.Beating around the bush has no meaning.One also needs to pass the shit tests.
Generally my attitude is the Balkan King style.I dominate the place club,disco whatever.I buy girls drinks and then feel free to touch them etc.Ukrainian women can appear as dysfunctional from western point of view.They lack the flow or the integrity of all parts.They can get on your nerves if you are a talkative person.Power of silence.We in Balkans do not talk much.We say only the essentials.Ukrainian women like silent men who do not talk much.Sth like silent power.
Conversation.One needs to squeeze his brain to get rapport.I need to lower my expectations regarding what these girls know.Also recognize all mental games aka how long can you tolerate me if I do not talk or behave like shit.If you can tolerate the shit you prove yourself material for LTR or marriage Ukrainian women feed you with enough shit and never think it is enough.So if you cannot swallow some in the beginning it means that you will not tolerate them long term so they have to move.
Of course I am one step before I recognize what they do and respond accordingly.We eat shit with spoons here so it is not a problem.Generally cool attitude and indifference are keys to treat the Ukrainian mental state.Superior slavic treatment sth like that.If you get emotional you are lost by hand.
They also test your boundaries how much shit will you take without reacting?They want you to put a limit on that to show you are a man and not a sissy who will get overrun by them.Italians in this regard do awful.They cannot tolerate the shit and resign too early or are afraid to put an end to the shit so girls have no respect for them.Not the case with Balkans.O.K. I take long quantities of shit to show mental power and guts but I put a limit to this when the test becomes obviously to the direction of testing the amount I can get and how manly I will react.It is a complex mental game slavic women are masters in that.

[Greek kamaki]

One night stands are only possible if you buy a present for the girl(I have sth for you in my room) or in Kiev where you may even not need to buy a girl a present.
What other guys do is totally irrelevant.I am in the club to exercise my mastery.I do not care about the environment.I do not judge the other guys and I am indifferent towards them.They get probably rejected because they are lower class.The other guys have to try to stop me otherwise I will be the only one who will get laid.How to stop me is their problem.

[Deb Auchery]

(03-17-2012 02:53 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

One night stands are only possible if you buy a present for the girl(I have sth for you in my room) or in Kiev where you may even not need to buy a girl a present.
What other guys do is totally irrelevant.I am in the club to exercise my mastery.I do not care about the environment.I do not judge the other guys and I am indifferent towards them.They get probably rejected because they are lower class.The other guys have to try to stop me otherwise I will be the only one who will get laid.How to stop me is their problem.

"I have something for you in my room"

Does that work for you Kamaki?

[Greek kamaki]

Do not laugh.Many foreigners even buy perfumes and cosmetics before they travel to have enough bait in their rooms.

[Antipodean]

(03-17-2012 03:59 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 02:53 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

One night stands are only possible if you buy a present for the girl(I have sth for you in my room) or in Kiev where you may even not need to buy a girl a present.
What other guys do is totally irrelevant.I am in the club to exercise my mastery.I do not care about the environment.I do not judge the other guys and I am indifferent towards them.They get probably rejected because they are lower class.The other guys have to try to stop me otherwise I will be the only one who will get laid.How to stop me is their problem.

"I have something for you in my room"

Does that work for you Kamaki?

From the other Ukraine threads, I'm thinking to have sushi in the room, to get them back. (Apartment with a kitchen with fridge)
If they're lucky, maybe even a bottle of fizzy wine.

[Greek kamaki]

Better have some caviar(ikra) and some champagne.Also a small perfume sth like that.
Kde jest moj podarok?(where is my present is a common question by Ukrainian women.With this they do not mean the huj(penis).

[Sourcecode]

What about grape juice and graham crackers?
If you say the chicks are so poor Kamaki...hoes show be climbing over each other for this delicacy.
And you'll save money

[Greek kamaki]

I do not know why but they connect sex with champagne in Ukraine(hopefully in province it is still the old good Ukrainian champagne Odessa worth 4 euro).

[Parlay44]

(03-17-2012 02:46 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Ukrainian women do not talk so much like polish.One needs to be sharp and to the point.Beating around the bush has no meaning.One also needs to pass the shit tests.
Generally my attitude is the Balkan King style.I dominate the place club,disco whatever.I buy girls drinks and then feel free to touch them etc.Ukrainian women can appear as dysfunctional from western point of view.They lack the flow or the integrity of all parts.They can get on your nerves if you are a talkative person.Power of silence.We in Balkans do not talk much.We say only the essentials.Ukrainian women like silent men who do not talk much.Sth like silent power.
Conversation.One needs to squeeze his brain to get rapport.I need to lower my expectations regarding what these girls know.Also recognize all mental games aka how long can you tolerate me if I do not talk or behave like shit.If you can tolerate the shit you prove yourself material for LTR or marriage Ukrainian women feed you with enough shit and never think it is enough.So if you cannot swallow some in the beginning it means that you will not tolerate them long term so they have to move.
Of course I am one step before I recognize what they do and respond accordingly.We eat shit with spoons here so it is not a problem.Generally cool attitude and indifference are keys to treat the Ukrainian mental state.Superior slavic treatment sth like that.If you get emotional you are lost by hand.
They also test your boundaries how much shit will you take without reacting?They want you to put a limit on that to show you are a man and not a sissy who will get overrun by them.Italians in this regard do awful.They cannot tolerate the shit and resign too early or are afraid to put an end to the shit so girls have no respect for them.Not the case with Balkans.O.K. I take long quantities of shit to show mental power and guts but I put a limit to this when the test becomes obviously to the direction of testing the amount I can get and how manly I will react.It is a complex mental game slavic women are masters in that.

There's some GOLD in this post fellas. Re-read it and take some notes. For real.

[Roosh]

I just read Kamaki's dialog (http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10771-...#pid178742) and that is something worth trying. I can see that working.

One thing here is that girls like dancing on and off. So they dance for 20 minutes, talk for 20 minutes, and repeat. So I catch them on their break, but no matter how well the conversation goes, the friend will drag her to dance. I may be invited, but then I have to do the "dance in a circle" thing.

As in Latvia, I think a number harvesting approach may be the best way to go. Committing to one girl all night to go for the one night stand is not working out. Here you don't get those long 3 hour continuous chats that easily set the stage for more. You get little bits and pieces. That also means that when a girl leaves you, it doesn't mean she doesn't like you. Reapproaching here works best than everywhere else I've been.

drymarro: Just starting ramping up day game efforts since the weather is becoming bearable. Problem is quality during the day is low and English is huge problem. I can game in Russian at night but still not ready for day.

It's also an issue of standards. I know how hard it is to pull an 8 or 9 from the club, but there are so many here that I feel like it should be "easy". I'm passing on girls that I would bang in Poland, so really I may be bitching about nothing in particular.

Believe me that when you come here and land a 7, you'll feel kind of crappy when you go to the club with her and there are 30 girls or more that are hotter than her.

[Roosh]

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

[RichieP]

I heard women over there just like hardcore caveman leader types. Maybe just start ordering her around. "we're going to the bar. we're sitting down. we're dancing. We're leaving now." grabbing hand and leading around loads. WWVD: What would Vlad (Putin) Do?

[Brian]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

Maybe you should go back to the "sex and drugs" line you were using previously on your trip and stop giving straight answers.

[el mechanico]

Girl : Why are you here?

You: I work for a new cellular company we're putting towers here. I'm here indefinitely for now

Girl: What's the name of it?

You : Dash mobile

[worldwidetraveler]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

Yeah, I would say that is part of the problem. I bet a lot of sex tourists say the same thing about learning Russian language.

I would be going more for business or research for book. Hopefully they don't google your name. haha

"Researching a book on interpersonal relations in the former soviet union: past to present."

[worldwidetraveler]

(03-17-2012 10:56 AM)Brian Wrote:  

Maybe you should go back to the "sex and drugs" line you were using previously on your trip and stop giving straight answers.

Bad idea, they will believe him.

[Greek kamaki]

(03-17-2012 09:43 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I just read Kamaki's dialog (http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10771-...#pid178742) and that is something worth trying. I can see that working.

One thing here is that girls like dancing on and off. So they dance for 20 minutes, talk for 20 minutes, and repeat. So I catch them on their break, but no matter how well the conversation goes, the friend will drag her to dance. I may be invited, but then I have to do the "dance in a circle" thing.

As in Latvia, I think a number harvesting approach may be the best way to go. Committing to one girl all night to go for the one night stand is not working out. Here you don't get those long 3 hour continuous chats that easily set the stage for more. You get little bits and pieces. That also means that when a girl leaves you, it doesn't mean she doesn't like you. Reapproaching here works best than everywhere else I've been.

drymarro: Just starting ramping up day game efforts since the weather is becoming bearable. Problem is quality during the day is low and English is huge problem. I can game in Russian at night but still not ready for day.

It's also an issue of standards. I know how hard it is to pull an 8 or 9 from the club, but there are so many here that I feel like it should be "easy". I'm passing on girls that I would bang in Poland, so really I may be bitching about nothing in particular.

Believe me that when you come here and land a 7, you'll feel kind of crappy when you go to the club with her and there are 30 girls or more that are hotter than her.

When they get to dance you should approach other girls.In this way you create intrigue.One common thing Ukrainian girls do is letting you watch their items when they move to dancefloor(handbags,clothes etc).In this case I usually move to girls sitting next keeping an eye on items or I pick up other girls keeping an eye on the girls dancing on the dance floor while from time to time I go to check if the items are still there.
Generally I am very fast and flexible and improvise.You have to read into every individual situation sometimes things deceive and an easy appearing girl is not so one may lose a lay because he focuses on her and not on the other girls.The fact that everything can happen in next second(girlfriend dragging her to dancefloor or toilet) means that I have to take phone number very quickly before that happens as I show in the typical dialogue.(after the first 10 questions).
I usually hit girls in the top 10% of local female population so it does not strike to me that the ones in club are better(maybe 5-10 of them can be better the upper 5%) but I am sure this is due to he fact I have never stayed more than 10 days.
For very good looking girls one needs a different game but I cannot explain that exactly.Let's say you play on the big kahoona.It is more direct how can I say this?I will try to present dialogues with pretty girls and with very hot girls to see the difference.

[Greek kamaki]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

It is because you are not a slavophile.Your desire to learn Russian is not natural and it shows.For example if I said the same they would believe me because I am a slavophile.Everything is put on context.However I do not come to Ukraine to learn Russian so I have already given my answers to Ukrainian women shit tests thread.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-10553.html

You also do not look like the usual English teacher.You are not so intellectual or decadent in appearance to make the girl believe that.You are too flashy to be an English teacher.Girls know that from first second they have the sensor to determine a man's background.Certain qualities have to be displayed.
For example if I were an English teacher I would say:

-What do you do?
-I came to Ukraine many times and I liked the place a lot.So now I live here and teach English there are several people who want to learn and I want to help them(in this way you show that you will be temporarily there but not for just a travel,that you are an altruist for helping people and that you have a background job except for teaching English which makes the story more believable and consolidates possible financial resorces the girl maybe interested in.Generally girls view Ukraine as a good place only for foreigners interested in business aka buying valuable things after bribing the authorities they think this may interest foreigners who are supposed to be successful and hunt money.Everything else is just weird for them since foreigners can make much more money in their own country).

If I learned Russian I would say:
-What do you do?
-I really try to spend some time to learn Russian as quickly as I can.Russian is my favourite language.It is so beautiful(not to tell in western Ukraine.There you should tell that Ukrainian sounds more melodic than Russian).Then proceed to talk about Russian music,Russian food,Russian cinema,Russian literature whatever.Always show you are a slavophile.That you estimate andhave respect for everything Russian and everything slavic.(even having some Russian fashion like dark clothes,very short hair,even pointing shoes sometimes does not hurt.Of course one can be O.K. by adopting the standard western European appearance.But if you want to play slavophile you should be on the track on becoming a Slav.Girls like this contrast).
Sometimes being among slavic women I tended to lose my identity and become so sucked by the slavic situation that my perceptions started to change although Greekiness stroke back or protested.People who spend too much time there are prone to become dysfunctional and cannot comply with common western style rules because their perceptions have vastly changed.Slavicization is a powerful force and should never be underestimated.

[tomtud]

(03-17-2012 09:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also I think my backstory is causing problems.

Girl: "Why are you here?"

Option 1: "I'm an English teacher." I'm suited up in the club and I teach English for $6 an hour.. really?

Option 2: "I'm here to study Russian."
"Why do you want to study Russian?"
"For hobby."

WRONG ANSWER. Girls don't buy it at all that I want to study Russian just to study it. I can see it on their faces. Here they don't have that mentality of learning something to enrich themselves with no obvious gain. I will try out "For work." For the girls here, things need to fit a black and white spectrum. No complicated or ambiguous answers.

You can be cocky sarcastic and say sex and prostitutes. Or here to find a mail order bride. But I don't think sarcasm works outside of the west.

Her: why are you here?
You: business. ( one word answer)
Her: what kind of business
You: import export ( import her vagina and export it out with your manhood).