[oldnemesis]

(03-21-2012 08:37 PM)The Duke Wrote:  

Yeah beating around the bush might make you look like you are hiding something, but I think there are universal truths that apply to girls around the world. Mystery is universally good. I agree that it's less good in the FSU, but it's still good. Maybe you being a foriegner is already mysterous enough. I never try to come across as mysterious as if I'm hiding something, rather, I try to come across as honest, a person of character but also a person she wonders about.

In my opinion mystery is only good in a Western type, positively-thinking society. There the girl thinks "what other positive qualities this guy might have?" In Ukraine it does the opposite, she thinks "what negative qualities this guy is trying to hide?"

[Roosh]

I used oldnem's tip tonight.

Me: "Are you married?"
"No"
"Do you have kids?"
"No"
"How old are you?"
"24"
"Hmm, that's interesting."
"Well I was married, but I'm not anymore."

See that's something that she wouldn't have told me unless I cross examined her. The best defense is a good offense. She didn't ask me too much about my marital status.

[Roosh]

Here it's helpful to use compliance tests, something I really haven't used elsewhere in a conscious way.

First one: "Do you want a drink?" If she says no, either she's not trying to party or she doesn't like you.

Second one: "Do you want to dance?"

If she says yes to both you are in. If she says no to both, walk away.

Once on the dance floor, take note if she pushes your hand away if you put it on her hip. If she does, get her number and go talk to another girl. Otherwise, you can continue.

[Blunt]

I think asking about marriage status is one of the best proxies for western-style game in the FSU. If the girl is older than 23 and unmarried she is bound to feel insecure about it. It's like planting a little seed in her head 'does he think I'm weird/unmarriageable?'

[Greek kamaki]

I do not use do you want a drink as a compliance test.This is meant to be an easier way to get more quickly to a girls panties if she accepts the drink I feel entitled to touch her all over.

Also a big mistake to restrict oneself to clubs.Girls who want to fuck in Ukraine do not frequent clubs.Clubs attract a different crew in Ukraine than in Poland.

Anyway as Balkan I was able to figure all this out very fast.Clubs are interesting but not the alpha to omega in hunting..One can get one night stands only on ladies nights in province.Girls who have the money to enter a club are no way the easiest.

Anyway I succumb them all but in club environment there are always more powerful elements to take into account.Clubs do not work as a prefuck state.

[Greek kamaki]

Compliance tests I may use:

Will you cook for me?
Will you show me the city or (any particular place she likes)
Can you translate for me?(for example food in super market)

Baits:

Would you like to visit Greece?
Do you like swimming tanning?
I have some Metaxa in my room.
Do you prefer skirts or dresses?Ukrainian fashion is very nice.

Do you like gold or silver?

Does your girlfriend like dresses?

[Greek kamaki]

Compliance tests I use in clubs:
1.Would you like to come to Greece?
2.What is your name?
3.What do you drink?

[Greek kamaki]

Examples of rambling(talking along without saying anything essential) with different nationalities.
Ukrainian girls:
I am really amazed by Ukraina.So nice rivers and lakes all this nature and the people here are so nice food exceptional I cannot stop visiting Ukraine.I have been to other countries like Poland as well but the nature you have here is top notch.Everything very nice I want to see everything in Ukraine.

Polish girls:
Polska is really great.Magnificent cities super arcitecture.Nothing can be compared to Polska.Bigos pierogi Zywiec Krakowska kielbasa Rynek Wawel

[Roosh]

So just when I thought I was figuring it out, last night I was massacred. Just completely shut out. I have to admit that my club ROI is the lowest it's ever been since Colombia.

Some nights I'm like a rock star, getting a lot of love, and other nights nothing.

Then just now I get an email from one of my pretty students who wants to hang out.

Day game is starting to perk up, but it's so slow here.

This place is putting me on a roller coaster of emotions. One minute I can taste the pussy paradise, the next I'm dejected and confused.

[Roosh]

Also a lot of girls here don't drink at all, or just one drink. It's fucked up my whole dating progression. I've never done so many coffee shop dates in my life. And we know that even if a coffee shop date goes well, the odds of sex or even a kiss is very low.

[chochemonger1]

(03-24-2012 09:23 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also a lot of girls here don't drink at all, or just one drink. It's fucked up my whole dating progression. I've never done so many coffee shop dates in my life. And we know that even if a coffee shop date goes well, the odds of sex or even a kiss is very low.

Its all cultural. In the Philippines, you have to do coffee shop or going to the mall dates mostly,at first. But you dont need to have them drinking, though it helps. Many of these non alcoholic dates here, can turn into lets go to my place to listen to music situation and an automatic bang. In Brazil and Colombia 1 or 2 drinks is generally necessary. In Eastern Europe and the FSU im guessing they need a bit more.

[Vicious]

(03-24-2012 09:23 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also a lot of girls here don't drink at all, or just one drink. It's fucked up my whole dating progression. I've never done so many coffee shop dates in my life. And we know that even if a coffee shop date goes well, the odds of sex or even a kiss is very low.

This is most likely a counter-cultural response to the massive alcoholism rampaging the FSU.

[Greek kamaki]

You do something very wrong but I am not sure what.

[Spike]

(03-24-2012 09:23 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also a lot of girls here don't drink at all, or just one drink. It's fucked up my whole dating progression. I've never done so many coffee shop dates in my life. And we know that even if a coffee shop date goes well, the odds of sex or even a kiss is very low.

If you're going on lots of fruitless coffee dates you might as well try my coffee date game. It has worked miracles for me in South America. I haven't tried it in Russia or another industrial shithole back then but i still had 3 girls there (including the model like girl in my header)

I still have to post this some day in the game section but you might as well try i out.
In no way i want to plug my site here but this might help out
Link here

It might work well in the FSU too and without drinking alcohol. Let me know how it went.

[Greek kamaki]

Coffee does not offer added value to an Ukrainian girl.Cocktails yes.That is why many girls on coffee dates order cocktails.(sometimes double).However even cocktail is not as powerful as a dinner.A common dinner is less powerful than sushi and sushi less powerful than a full dinner with sushi and full drinks.This is also inferior to a big dinner with sushi drinks for her and her girlfriends but then the bill will reach levels that you may think it may be better to buy her a direct present instead and spend the money on it.

[Greek kamaki]

(03-24-2012 09:23 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also a lot of girls here don't drink at all, or just one drink. It's fucked up my whole dating progression. I've never done so many coffee shop dates in my life. And we know that even if a coffee shop date goes well, the odds of sex or even a kiss is very low.

They may order cocktails instead of normal drinks but they never get drunk with cocktails due to the low alcohol these contain.They are also rather expensive compared to vodka.Using drinks to lay Ukrainian girls does not work.
If an Ukrainian girl was interested in banging she told me that at the end of the date without any drinks.They say sth along the lines ''now what will we do?Will we go to your home to watch TV?''

[Spartan]

Roosh, I think Ukrainian girls are as confused by your behaviour as you are with theirs.

My last girlfriend was a Ukrainian and she told me later on that I was taking things too slowly with her. I could have kissed her on date two on the bus ride back to town.
We were in the USA, but she had just arrived from Ukraine 1 week ago.

Here is how my initial contact with her went:

1. Meet for 5 minutes to introduce myself- she was assigned to be my conversation partner as an international student (I had requested a Russian/Ukrainian). We agree to meet the next week for a chat near the fountain. I knew she was into me by the way she looked at me and walked home with a hard on.

2. Met at a fountain and talked for 30 minutes. First real date. I invite her to a party next weekend at my place but she flakes on me.

3. We set up another meet by the fountain and I take her downtown to a sushi bar. I order her a beer.
I don't get any cues from her about what to do...I have to take the entire lead.
We chat and take a bus back to the fountain..I sense that I could have kissed her but I don't do it..I've never done a first kiss on a bus before. Later, when we're dating, I tell her about this and she says she was in fact waiting for a kiss.

4. I invite her for dinner at my place. I kiss her on the balcony and proceed to the bedroom.
This was way too much. Later, she says she was confused by being invited to dinner. Ukrainian men don't do this.


I think coffee dates for a first chat are fine. A second meeting at a place that serves alcohol..hmm maybe some sort of restaurant. I just got into a similar situation as you (industrial shithole in the FSU). In fact, I'm sure my town is even shittier than yours and is a lot smaller with fewer places to go.

There is usually a place that's in the center of town that's a nice restaurant that will serve alcohol. At least in Odessa, I noticed a lot of Ukrainians drink outdoors at the patios of restaurants when the weather is nice. My girl remarked that people don't have money for food in the restaurant but they will go there for drinks.

A good way to find a place:
Take a taxi with a young/middle aged guy or a couple (just hail any car on the street by holding your hand out, it doesn't have to be labelled a taxi) and head to the center of town. Along the way ask if they know any nice restaurants where you can have a drink. The people who give random taxi rides like this are often quite friendly.


I think leading 100%, escalate quickly, and know where to go. They expect you to know a good place to take them.

[Greek kamaki]

Paradoxically escalation in street game in Ukraine happens faster than in clubs.I had this happening quite a few times when I picked up a girl in a street and later after some walk I kissed her fingered her or drove her to hotel.In club only in Kiev you get solid one night stands and even then is tricky it is not the average foreigner who gets the one night stands but the loaded one or the ''cat'' as we say here the guy who takes fast decisions on the point and has increased awareness.It is essential not to spend your time on girls who will not fuck.Speed is an important element.
I was in clubs with hordes of Arabs and other foreigners and I was the only one who got action.(apart from some very old dudes obviously loaded).

[Roosh]

GK: Do you go to the club alone? If so what is your strategy... roaming through the club or getting a table?

[Greek kamaki]

(03-24-2012 02:59 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

GK: Do you go to the club alone? If so what is your strategy... roaming through the club or getting a table?

Always alone.I have not managed to find good Greek wings to join me in these journeys most Greeks are interested in p4p or guaranteed lays.
Getting a table is expensive.I would do it only if I had for example two girls over 1.80 cm tall,under 22 years of age one blonde at least.Otherwise it does not pay off because you have to be sitting without ability to move.
My strategy depends on the lay out of the club.Usually when I come I sit on the bar and observe the possible targets.(both on bar,sitting on tables and dancing in dance hall).After that I improvize a plan of action.
The action is to hit as many girls as possible in the shorter possible time starting from the most attractive,most possibly receptive and sitting in best positions to approach.

So I start approaching keeping an eye on the other opportunities.For example if I talk to a girl and I see that another target(possibly even hotter) is tired of dancing and goes to sit alone I will leave the girl I am talking to telling her an excuse(I am going to the toilet or look at the club) and then approach the other girl.The point is to get rejected as soon as possible to have time to approach more girls.
Even when a girl is hooked and I get kisses etc I do not stay with her but I will approach more girls to maximize the benefits.
I approach girls on bar(the easiest place to approach),girls sitting on tables usually when most of their friends are away dancing and girls on the dance floor who are on the marginal parts of the dance floor not in the center.These girls usually do not move very strongly dancing and you can establish a contact.
So I may be in a situation when I talk to a girl sitting on bar while another girl waits for me sitting on table and I have already opened a girl dancing on dance floor to get to meet her by the time she sits on table.
Of course I have compete awareness of the whole club environment what happens,what girls come in,what get out what everyone is doing.
For example if I see that a statosteque super sexy girl enters the club while I am talking to another I will take phone number of the former and hit the new one just 10 times after she has entered the club so she has been a bit warmed up and is not taken completely by surprise.

Another important thing is that the girls you hit on should not have seen you before you hit them.So I come from behind at an angle.If they have seen you they may have grasped your game or likely sb will have talked to them about you.

[Greek kamaki]

Usually in Ukraine the lay out of the club is very good because clubs have more than one floor and chill out area.This means that you can talk to girls in first floor without the girls on ground floor knowing what you are doing.You can also talk to girls in chill out area or isolate them there.So I divide the targets I hit some of them on the first floor some on the ground floor and some on the chill out area.The girls have no idea what I am doing with other girls.Many times I get numbers and kiss close girls on the exit before they get taxi home and then come back to the club to pick up more girls.
During lady nights I had 100% success because the crowd in the club was completely different.What is the most difficult to pull are the hardcore club residents who visit it every weekend.They usually go to meet certain persons in the club for multiple reasons and see you as commodity.A question I make to calibrate the girl is ''do you come here often?'' if she answers ''this club is like my home'' I know chances with her are zero.If she says ''I come from another city'' I know that chances are very good.Girls from other cities are much more receptive because the locals do not know them and will not be labelled as whores by talking to foreigners so easily.
So it matters to be able to recognize which girls in club are not natives from the city but to to do that you must be very experienced.I usually know the fashion and characteristics from every region for example what girl likely comes from Lvov,how a Kiev girl looks like etc.Again I make mistakes so I am hardly an expert in this regard.(for example if you see a very slutty dressed girl with ass hanging out she maybe from Odessa,if you see a girl with very good haircut and less make up she maybe from Kiev if you see a blonde girl with polish characteristics she maybe from Lvov,a girl with straight black hair with stilettos can be from Donetsk etc).

[Greek kamaki]

Local guys are no competition at all they are invisible.Only in Kiev high class clubs with local ''golden boys''(kids of rich Ukrainians) you may face some competition but these guys usually come there with their harems they never pick up there.They avoid moreover clubs in general and have their girls party at their homes privately.
Arabs tend to overspend and reserve tables where they buy drinks,flowers etc with mixed results.I never saw solid success by the Arabs unless they resorted to heavy shopping(quite obvious in malls the young slender beautiful girl and the old fat ugly sweating Arab next to her carrying shop bags the girl with smile on her face).The Arabs are no competition in clubs.
The Turks apply the method of the turkish circle which I have described and given advise how to overcome it.The problem with Turks is that they get some of the hot girls out of circulation that is they guard them regardless if they have success with them or not.The point of the Turks is that girls become so bored that noone else approaches scared of the Turks that at the end the bored up girls end up with Turks due to lack of any other alternatives and their desire to have a pleasant night.So the Turks take advantage of the girls good mood.
The Westerners usually approach solo or in companies of two so they are not a danger either.The Westerners are very discreet they are not primitive like the Turks.In a club with no Westerners,no Turks and no Arabs competition is zero.

[oldnemesis]

(03-24-2012 08:51 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

So just when I thought I was figuring it out, last night I was massacred. Just completely shut out. I have to admit that my club ROI is the lowest it's ever been since Colombia.
Some nights I'm like a rock star, getting a lot of love, and other nights nothing.

This doesn't surprise me. As I said before, clubs and bars is not the avenue the local guys use to get laid. Consequently, when the girls go out to a club, they are not going with the expectation of being hit on by a lot of guys and get laid. She may even want it, but she doesn't know how to proceed (and while she's thinking about it you lose interest) or she may have some logistics obstacles (waking up at 6am next morning, the dog she needs to feed). Get a phone number and move on. Call the next/nextnext day, have a small funny talk, but don't invite her out. Call again in a couple of days, get her out.

Another issue may be is that walking across the club talking to anyone is generally not a socially acceptable behavior there like it is in US. You're not likely to get kicked out for that, but the people would indeed pay attention if you do it. Therefore it might be more beneficial to maintain the low profile and avoiding cruising between the groups.

(03-24-2012 09:23 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also a lot of girls here don't drink at all, or just one drink. It's fucked up my whole dating progression.

This means she thinks you want to get her wasted (that's the game of the most local guys). And she doesn't want it.

Now, what could you do:

- Get her an expensive (above average price) cocktail. She knows she wouldn't get one herself and most local guys wouldn't offer her one. So you get her greed working against her guard. Often the greed wins. At home you may offer her some either expensive or unique liquor (unique is more valuable). Having tasted a lot of different spirits is value.

- Build more trust (telling stories about your "whiskey dick" might work surprisingly well)

- Play some drinking games. You'll have to explain the concept to her as this is something not popular there. Locals don't need games to get fucked up with booze.

- Call her out. If you opened a full bottle and drank with her it is disrespectful for her to refuse to drink with you (the custom rules is that you both should drink the whole bottle) unless she makes it straight and clear before you opened up the bottle. This would require some experience as you're walking a fine line there, so don't expect it to work straight away.

- Challenge her i.e. she is the lamest drinker you ever met. Context is important, of course. Beware that if it works she may get really wasted and puke at you when she's on top. I can tell you this is not fucking fun at all when you get this shit in your eyes. Only do drunk chicks doggystyle.

Here I assumed you were paying for the drinks/alcohol; if you don't then its a different story.

[oldnemesis]

(03-22-2012 10:26 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

See that's something that she wouldn't have told me unless I cross examined her. The best defense is a good offense.

This is also DHV. Sex tourists don't have this kind of conversation.

[Pilgrim37]

Are there a fair amount of long haired guys,guys wearing beards around or is your look a novelty for the ladies?

Are girls in the club going for a certain look?

I know the cropped hair ,leather jacket look with optional gold chain or bracelet is the was quite a "power" look that was usually accompanied by a hot blonde there a while back.