Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who chimed in here. I've been coming back to the thread and the advice has been really helpful. I can already feel myself moving in a much more positive direction. Just needed some perspective from ya'll. Much appreciated.

Little update: I got a text from her tonight - "Wine tasting at my house this Sat??

Think I'll wait until tomorrow and reply "swamped this wknd cant get away. thanks for invite tho."

Let the games begin lol. No more immediate responses with smiley faces. Going to do what many of you advised - avoid and ignore, until I figure out how I want to resolve this, and keep focusing on myself.

Cheers

Read your story. Thanks for sharing. Cringeworthy how many times you had the shot and then dropped the ball, but we all learn from these experiences.

She sounds like she's a great friend, being so patient with all your pussy beta love shit. Don't fuck up the friendship with her after all these years and try and turn it into something more, because she doesn't see you like that. Treat her like a bro because that's what she is.

Make her the friend that can introduce you to other girls, that can talk you up when you bring other girls over.

Spend some time away, do your own thing, work on yourself, have lots of girls in the rotation so when she texts you if you want to hang out you're actually busy instead of making up stories of how busy you are. Get your shit together.

Thanks for reading my long ass story Peter. I agree with what you're saying. I actually don't need her to introduce me to girls (although she can be helpful that way - just as you described, and even wants to be as I mentioned). I have a pretty rich social life with or without her. I just need to man up and start approaching for real now that other things in my life are falling into place. I hear what you're saying though. Going to continue getting my shit together and get my game on.

Pussy beta love is a bitch! I was totally cool with her being my bro for years and wanted it that way. Then these damn feelings gradually started to build and our bro friendship started to drive me into dark places that are effecting my life negatively. Perhaps after some time/space and getting some girls into the rotation I can learn to be cool with being bros with her again.

Thanks again for your input.

Next time you hang with her try to bang her. Kiss her and take off her clothes. If she doesn't go for it leave and never talk to her again. Simple really.

Quote: (03-27-2014 02:30 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

Next time you hang with her try to bang her. Kiss her and take off her clothes. If she doesn't go for it leave and never talk to her again. Simple really.

I like that option too Just might go for it.

Quote: (03-27-2014 01:38 AM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Little update: I got a text from her tonight - "Wine tasting at my house this Sat??

Didn't respond. She text me again today - "Hey! Did you get my text yesterday?? Wine tasing at my house this Sat??" I was like "crazy night. this wknd's already swamped. can't get away. thanks for invite tho." She goes "OK! It will go from around 8-midnight if you get any time, care to join " I'm like "koo" (although I probably should've said nothing further).

This is kind of fun lol. Feels good to take steps away from being her beta bitch boy.

Quote: (03-27-2014 03:28 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Quote: (03-27-2014 01:38 AM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Little update: I got a text from her tonight - "Wine tasting at my house this Sat??

Didn't respond. She text me again today - "Hey! Did you get my text yesterday?? Wine tasing at my house this Sat??" I was like "crazy night. this wknd's already swamped. can't get away. thanks for invite tho." She goes "OK! It will go from around 8-midnight if you get any time, care to join " I'm like "koo" (although I probably should've said nothing further).

This is kind of fun lol. Feels good to take steps away from being her beta bitch boy.

I wouldn't have responded to the text that she sent to you again. Put her on radio silence for a few weeks and watch what happens.

Quote: (03-27-2014 03:28 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Quote: (03-27-2014 01:38 AM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Little update: I got a text from her tonight - "Wine tasting at my house this Sat??

Didn't respond. She text me again today - "Hey! Did you get my text yesterday?? Wine tasing at my house this Sat??" I was like "crazy night. this wknd's already swamped. can't get away. thanks for invite tho." She goes "OK! It will go from around 8-midnight if you get any time, care to join " I'm like "koo" (although I probably should've said nothing further).

This is kind of fun lol. Feels good to take steps away from being her beta bitch boy.

You're having fun, that's great. As you continue to build on your game, you should continue to have more fun and even better results.

However, you're playing into her frame and being too wordy. Let's break it down:

HER:
"Hey! Did you get my text yesterday?? Wine tasing at my house this Sat??"

YOU:
"crazy night. this wknd's already swamped. can't get away. thanks for invite tho."
With the above response you buy into her frame, explaining why you didn't get back to her and explaining too much of why you can't get away. Then you thank her for the invite, which isn't necessarily bad, but again too wordy. A simple "thx" or "thanks" would suffice and really isn't necessary. Less is more.

Instead you would be better off with:
"yeah can't make it"

or radio silence, or simply "can't make it"

Further:

HER:
"OK! It will go from around 8-midnight if you get any time, care to join "

YOU:
"koo" (although I probably should've said nothing further).

You're right. You shouldn't have responded. If anything, just a "k" is plenty.

Put yourself in the mindset of some older cool cat you look up to. George Clooney? Antonio Banderas? Brad Pitt? A sports athlete. Some successful guy you know that is not famous but does okay with the ladies. Really, just about anyone you'd consider a solid guy with better game.

Do you think any of them would be texting a girl, "koo?" Even if it's their longtime friend? Not very likely. You shouldn't either.

I'll give you my story. I was going to post one day but this thread gives me a golden opportunity as I can relate. Well, somewhat.

I knew a girl for like 10 years. Finally mustered the courage to feel her up. Then she revealed her feelings for me. She got REAL obsessed. She said she was coming down to see me and I could do whatever I want with her. That was over the top but hey, what's to lose? Read on.

One fine day, I get a text from her that a serial rapist called her and left her a message and she needed me. I almost shit my pants.

Long story short, this was my "exit opportunity" so I told her that I can't risk my family's safety. Then I slowly stopped talking to her to a point where she texts and I don't respond.

Did I break our 10 year friendship apart. Oh yeah. But, did I get away from an obsessive crazy. Yep. Well, as long as tomorrow doesn't bring her to my doorstep.

Man... glad you're having fun here with playing text games with her.
But you're staying mentally and emotionally attached to a harmful entity.

Naming your cancerous growth CuddleBump and taking it to the park may be fun, but its still a cancerous growth and you need to be focused on removing it.


You're clearly still hoping to resolve it and end up with her at the end... and I mean, 17 yrs hasn't had that happen yet.
That's 17 yrs of your "friend" knowingly fucking with your entire life.
17 fucking years of torture... that's Geneva convention violation type shit.

That's not a friend.... its a psychopath.


I actually am sorry if this sounds harsh, but I've been there and done this one... luckily only for 3 years, and while fucking random on the side. Always waiting for the bitch that loved fucking with my head to come back.

Fucking intentional OD'd and did all sorts of stupid stuff because of her.

At a certain point you gotta accept it... Yeah, she "needs" you. You're validation, and a 17 yr old security blankie. But that's it. You're her Plan B emotional fluffer... and you're worth way fuckkng more than that.
To yourself.


Who cares if she finds out you're alpha now. Fuck that.
You're alpha for that badass motherfucker in the mirror, not the girl crying over texts into his phone.

Write down a list of things you like to do.
Now spend your time doing those fucking things and approaching every cute girl you feel like in the process.
In the process of doing what you'd like to be doing regardless.



It may feel like you're pulling her in with this, but her little bit of give here is just baiting you back. There is no winning, or maybe 20 yrs down the road there is... and you wasted 5/8ths of your life for a worn down dried up bitch who abused you and decided you'd do when she'd had her fun.

Fuck that. The world is yours. You don't need a woman to define your success... just to compliment it.
Preferably a lot of them.



Sorry again for harsh words... but this stuff makes me mad. Not at you because I understand and empathize completely, but at how fucking cruel girls can be for their own amusement.

Its that old Seinfeld joke where there girl is shocked how guys fight, and when asked what girls do she says, "We just tease girls we don't like till they get an eating disorder.".
Its wrong.

Don't expect to outwit her psychological games... she's got a lot of experience profiling you're behavior here.

The one thing she's not expecting is you to just disappear and be happy regardless of her knowledge of it. That's how you win.
Then and only then.
By focusing on self reliance and happiness.
Not the aid of another girl.

If you can't look in the mirror, alone, and say "Fuck yeah, you rule! You've fucked up in the past but god dammit it made you who you are and you are awesome." THATS what you need to work on.

Not how to rack up a couple emotional fuckery points here at the end of the game with her.

I agree with Laserbear.
You're still trying to win her back. And it's a tempting thing, when you first learn that ignoring a girl and feigning disinterest makes her give you more attention. But you're still deep down trying to win her back. Do not be deceived, nothing will become of this. Like I said in my first post, no magical combination of words or actions exists that will make this chick fall for you... She's known the beta version of you for 17 years; I don't care if you become a millionaire alpha stud, nothing is going to erase that history.

Drop her.

Agree with the above 2 posts and just want to add that you seem to think that learning game is gonna help you get this girl. It's not. Learning game, if you really learn the fundamental red pill values, is going to teach you that this girl is broken & not worth any emotional investment from you. You are already emotionally invested. That's fine, you would be a fucking sociopath if you weren't attached to someone after 17 years. But the only way to win in this situation is to drop her from your life.

I mean dude, you said her dad left her and she strings a guy like you along for 17 years? That's 2 pretty clear red flags right there. She's emotionally damaged and not going to end up in a committed relationship with an alpha male. Whatever poor guy she ends up marrying is gonna be a hardcore beta. You shouldn't want to be that guy.

You guys are making EXCELLENT points and I'm taking all of them very seriously. I think you're absolutely right in what you're saying.

One thing I want to clarify however is that I'm not actually pursuing this woman. I've reached the point where I feel like cutting her out of my life, and maybe trying one last time to tap her out of spite (a lot of anger has built up). I wanted to hear people's ideas about that; should I take that route? If so how, or should I just accept what we have and try to be zen about it? Should I never talk to her again, etc. And I got a lot of great feedback and different perspectives.

Another thing I want to point out is that this has NOT been going on for 17 years. It's just that we've been close friends for that long. I know some details are lost in the insane length of my post, and you guys are troopers for reading even half of it But there were LONG stretches of time within that 17 years when I was either crushing hard on other girls, dating other girls, or we lived nowhere near each other, and I had no romantic feelings for "Jessica" whatsoever during those periods (at least that I knew of).

Not trying to defend her actions with me over the course of this time, but I only told her less than a year ago that I'd fallen in love with her. She had absolutely no idea I felt that way, or that my past experience with her was so devastating/scarring (we'd had re-established our close friendship as roommates). For her it was just a brief thing where we fooled around and became friends with benefits for a minute in college.

Just wanted to make that clear - I haven't been pursuing or being tortured by her for 17 years. That's just the length of our friendship (and she's done a shit load for me on a friendship level over those years). The length of the friendship is the reason I'm struggling so hard with how to handle this.

I do feel a lot of resentment over the very cruel and careless shit she's pulled (even though she'd never hurt me on purpose) and I do have an unhealthy emotional fixation on her that I've lost control of, which our past experiences contribute to (first girl to have a crush on me when I was an insecure teen, first girl I messed around with in college etc). She's always been special to me in various ways. But no, I haven't been obsessing over her this entire time. My beta love shit took me over just in the last couple of years. 17 years of this would not be survivable. Or it would warrant being checking in to a mental hospital lol.

Yes, there IS a little part of me that wants her feelings and perspective to change about me, and fantasizes about us ending up together. This is true. Can't help it. But I'm actually way past that in my rational mind. I have no illusions about us. I'm not going to get this girl and that's fine. Shouldn't even want to as you guys pointed out. Believe me, I'm against having these feelings - I liked what we had and never wanted to change it, or re-live any of my past trauma with her. Thought I was stronger than my beta love shit and grown out of the infatuation.

Just trying to figure out the best way to move forward at this point, and thinking about just saying fuck it and making a move one last time, because there's nothing left to lose in a sense (arguably). Right now, I'm just going to avoid her while I focus on myself, work on my game and soak in all of the GREAT advice I've gotten on this thread. When it comes time to interact with her again in person, I'll be much more prepared to handle this and decide what to do.

Thanks a lot for all the help! You guys have given me a lot of great input to consider as I move forward.

Cheers

Hi, EpicBeta,

Seventeen years is a long time for a friendship. You realize this is rare, even if it's never really been anything more than a little fingering and such.

Here is my one question: does your friend of seventeen years want you to have sex with other women? If she really is your friend, she will be your greatest promoter. She will go out of her way to tell her lady friends that you are the greatest man in the world. How many fucks have you had because of this girl? How many girl friends have you had because of this girl?

If she has never done anything to promote you, she is not your friend.

Seventeen years is still a long time. I wouldn't just throw it away. Just find better things to do.

And if you're having lots of sex, talk about it with her as much as possible. Tell her you are glad that you're "just friends." In other words, turn her into a therapist whom you don't have to pay.

Good luck.

Quote: (03-28-2014 03:34 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

Here is my one question: does your friend of seventeen years want you to have sex with other women? If she really is your friend, she will be your greatest promoter. She will go out of her way to tell her lady friends that you are the greatest man in the world. How many fucks have you had because of this girl? How many girl friends have you had because of this girl?

Thanks man. She's been a great promoter and wanted to set me up with chick friends. She always wanted to look out for me that way and play match maker, and she always talks about how great and funny I am etc. I've just avoided letting her set me up because I either wasn't interested in her choice, or in some cases I would have been, but had gotten to the point where I'd fallen for her and didn't want to date her friends while I was hung up on her so badly. Thought it might backfire in a big way. Had I taken the red pill at the time I probably would've thought about it and approached it differently.

Thanks again

Quote: (03-28-2014 01:53 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

I've reached the point where I feel like cutting her out of my life, and maybe trying one last time to tap her out of spite (a lot of anger has built up).

Hey EB,

I read (the majority) of your post and could relate to it, we've all been there...maybe not as much, but it's all part of the game of life.

That first part about cutting her out, that's the way to go. It might hurt, but just go for it. See what happens.

Also, your post highlights how women are master manipulators. They can control their emotions to get a desired effect from a man like a puppeteer. They like the drama, and once you push away a lot of the time they want you back...even if it's just for conversation. Women love attention, especially from guys.

A couple pointers:

- Go approach the hell out of women. By day and night. You're in LA right? PM me and I'll give you some pointers/good locations if you'd like.

- Learn from this. Notice how when you invest in her...you want it to "work out." You want to get the notch, or the win. When you DON'T get that, you may see that you want to keep hanging out with her to seal the deal. Women know that after the notch, the guy has essentially won. She can leave and the guy still can walk away, head high knowing, "Well, at least I hit it." So they dangle it arm's length.

- You've expressed your "beta bitch boy" moments and now it's time to rebuild. Start by changing your username if possible, so you can be something more stronger and alpha. Choose a picture that gives you strength by looking at it. (Mine's Marcello Mastroanni, a baller Italian actor)

- Chef

[/quote]

- Go approach the hell out of women. By day and night. You're in LA right? PM me and I'll give you some pointers/good locations if you'd like.

[/quote]

Thanks for the pointers Chef! I will take you up on that and PM you soon. I appreciate that. I'll update my profile soon as well. Although I feel I need to earn that first Cheers

just from what I've read, this girl doesn't sound like your friend. She's an emotional vampire. There was a good ROK article on this. You're better off sticking the crucifix in this 'friendship' and getting on with your life in my opinion. You can still bang her friend while barely talking to her at all? Go for that.

Good news! I took some of the advice I've been getting here and did some approaching last night. I posted a thread about it if anyone is interested : http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-34586.html

Thanks all!

Quote: (03-28-2014 03:48 PM)EpicBeta Wrote:  

Thanks man. She's been a great promoter and wanted to set me up with chick friends. She always wanted to look out for me that way and play match maker, and she always talks about how great and funny I am etc. I've just avoided letting her set me up because I either wasn't interested in her choice, or in some cases I would have been, but had gotten to the point where I'd fallen for her and didn't want to date her friends while I was hung up on her so badly. Thought it might backfire in a big way. Had I taken the red pill at the time I probably would've thought about it and approached it differently.

Thanks again

That's a beta attitude indeed. You're fear of failure is keeping you from success.

She's brought you opportunities, and you threw them away. That's your fault. Seize the opportunities. That's what a man does.

small update: my "BFF" texted again this evening - "Still busy tonight?" (she was going to have the wine tasting tonight -not sure if it's even happening, she probably just wants to hang out - btw is this what you'd call a shit test?)

Responded "fraid so." Her - "Otay, have a productive night!!!! Xo". A little while later I said "thnx hav fun."

I know that radio silence would've been best, but I do feel like drastically changing the way I respond to her is a bit like showing that I care too much; I'm creating drama, when I should just be like "meh," and blow her off casually more and more.

I was also too overwhelmed today to strongly promote my pushing her away. I was focused on a little bit of unexpected family drama, while trying to text game these two girls I approached last night (and not fuck it up lol - if you missed that story you can read it here: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-34586.html ).

So I figured I'd just blow my friend off this time without stirring things up by totally ignoring her. Might get to that point, but I just didn't want that drama in my head today. It's still A LOT shorter/colder than my usual texts. But this way she can think I'm too busy and starting to care less, rather than trying to lure her in to something dramatic because I still care so much (if it fucks starts to fuck with her head that's just a little revenge bonus for me, and if it doesn't, whatever. I'm focusing on other things).

Will update if there are any major twists over the next few weeks in this saga. hahaha cheers.

Your story is not as cringeworthy as certain things I've done(but I'm much younger than you). Good luck even a couple of months into your journey you'll notice changes.

Just walk away. What you need to do is move on. And learn some boundaries.

http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Ta...boundaries

This chic is more like an obsession that you're trying not to be obsessed with.

Women talk in terms of time/emotions invested in relationships in this way a lot too.
See: http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index...st-fallacy


Understand also that for every guy she may have told you she's banging, there's 3X more that she hasn't. EVEN IF YOU'RE ONE OF THEM.

wow I read all of that, you're invested way too much in a transaction out of which you seem to be losing money. It's like you're a partnership in a business where you've both put in 50% but you're only getting 10-20% and she's getting 80-90%, get the hell out and concentrate on women.

The best way to 'break up' is to do how you do it with your loser guy friends, slowly dial down all communication until they become acquaintances. then on the odd occasion you see them, you get the whole 'how you been' 'what you been up to', I can handle that shit, you'll be able to too as you continue along this path.