Quote: (03-15-2012 01:45 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Yes but if a dude reaches out and is serious I have no problems helping. I just don't recruit.

I don't either. Do you know how many parents and grandparents ask me to teach their kids my trade? I say sure bring em' They last about an hour and think they deserve 200 bucks for sitting on the laptops they bring in with them. When I started in the shop at 13 if I pissed the bosses off they would throw me in the dumpster and put an engine block on top of it so I had to stay in till I learned my lesson. I could have told my dad but all he would do is buy them some beer for doing that to me. Get it?

I agree. Maybe because I grew up poor as shit or don't really have a "family" per se I have a much thicker skin. Basically it's perpetual because the guys asking you to help their kids will give them a candy bar for simply showing up. I'm not like this. I'm scarily competitive and I have 0 problems goin through the garbage. I don't think I am a pussy for asking older dudes to help me out and I doubt I would need to be thrown into a garbage can. Just my 2c

Quote: (03-15-2012 01:59 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I agree. Maybe because I grew up poor as shit or don't really have a "family" per se I have a much thicker skin. Basically it's perpetual because the guys asking you to help their kids will give them a candy bar for simply showing up. I'm not like this. I'm scarily competitive and I have 0 problems goin through the garbage. I don't think I am a pussy for asking older dudes to help me out and I doubt I would need to be thrown into a garbage can. Just my 2c

Ok so what kind of help do you need?

I've heard the exact same thing with the exact same line.

'You're the most normal guy I've met/dated'

The average guys game is pretty bad. It's difficult to get them to accept game to begin with and even if they do they underestimate it's difficulty.
What happens usually is a guy will initially find out about game. Initially, he'll want to go out all the time. After a week or two he'll realize that it's not as easy as he thought it would be. He eventually quits, and decides game isn't for him.

The issue with the majority of people is that they can't commit themselves to anything. Getting better with girls is no different. Sure you have some guys who just kill it from an early age, but really how many of them are on a game board? Look at the players on here who have been in the game the longest, most of these cats have 10+ years experience Tenderman probably has 30+ years experience. Getting good at anything takes time. Improving your lifestyle takes time. Making a lot of money takes time.

The average young guy can't commit to anything besides playing video games or getting shitfaced every weekend. Forget about learning game, improving his lifestyle, learning a new language, or making a time commitment to improvement with women.

The bottom line is if something is hard most people won't dedicate the time to get good. It reminds of one of my other hobbies jiujitsu. The attrition rate is extremely high. Going in there and getting beat up by people better than you on a regular basis is not fun. Even myself have been at the same belt for a couple of years now, but I keep going, and keep trying to improve. Even if you improve at something 0.1% every day, eventually it adds up.

Honestly I think the best thing for me is to meet someone in person who actually has a lot of game but that'll be a while hence why I am just pm'ing the older dudes right now to build some credibility. Currently I think my issue is long-term conversations, I've gotten very good at a ONS but my ability to get higher quality through 2-3 dates is weak. Right now I'm upping my dancing skills, getting new threads and looking for new books to read. Any suggestions are welcome. I started a thread on progression of game that actually has given me a few ideas so any info on getting past that sticking point of long-term game is helpful. Book suggestions as well.

@ neo - dead accurate most people want a magic pill because they were pampered through suburbia good 4 them, more slays for us.

Quote: (03-15-2012 02:17 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Honestly I think the best thing for me is to meet someone in person who actually has a lot of game but that'll be a while hence why I am just pm'ing the older dudes right now to build some credibility. Currently I think my issue is long-term conversations, I've gotten very good at a ONS but my ability to get higher quality through 2-3 dates is weak. Right now I'm upping my dancing skills, getting new threads and looking for new books to read. Any suggestions are welcome. I started a thread on progression of game that actually has given me a few ideas so any info on getting past that sticking point of long-term game is helpful. Book suggestions as well.

@ neo - dead accurate most people want a magic pill because they were pampered through suburbia good 4 them, more slays for us.

Where/how do your conversations fall apart? Do you want to take this up on your thread?

Sure maybe would be helpful if you threw up a small thing about yourself explaining how you got through stickin points. Basically I am improving my quality now so it is much tougher getting a ONS. Usually falls apart on date 2-3. My text game is fine, all logistical. My date 2-3 I run out of material and the girl generally gets annoyed by me moving rather fast since that's how the ONS usually works anyway. Just can't get her laughing/having a good time where my only 3 threads needed on a ONS, travel/dancing/emotional connection routine. My energy is way high all the time because I am so used to the club pick up. In fact my first day game approach I got "wow you do this all the time?! Just show up and take random girls to your place?" so I move too fast. Come to think of it I need another hobby besides dancing and travel.

Quote: (03-15-2012 11:10 AM)americanInEurope Wrote:  

After reading that, it's no wonder you kinda feel the way you feel about chicks. It's almost like betrayal in a way, as you grew up with this idea that acting like a gentlemen will get you rewards, and it's actually gotten you the opposite. So you've gotten to the point where you think most chicks don't deserve to be treated like princesses, but deep down inside you're a nice dude and don't want to be an asshole, but you gotta do what you gotta do to get that ass...and this reality is kinda fucking with you. Is that about right?

I have come a VERY long way in the past two years.

I'd say most of the "fucking with me" that this realization did came a couple of years ago as I first became aware of its existence.
I am able to simply accept it now, and it doesn't really bother me as much. I do still have to work to de-program myself (on occasion, I'll still catch myself drifting into some programmed anti-game behavior), but I have come a very long way from my 18 year old chode reality where I literally knew nothing.

Of course, much of that progress is a result of my discovering this site and the rest of the manosphere, and diving into it academically in order to internalize its lessons.
What if I had never found the manosphere? I'd still be a chode. Most guys don't ever find help in one place like this, and thus remain chodes well into their 20's and 30's.

As for the Athlone who believes in "young love/marriage", chivalry and all of the other "nice guy" stuff I was programmed with? He is largely on his death bed.

The key to successfully digesting the red pill is to kill him off completely. I am close to this, but not quite. That'll take a while, but I've got some plans to get it totally done within the next handful of years. He'll draw his last breath in due time.

Quote: (03-15-2012 01:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote: (03-15-2012 12:57 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

Quote: (03-15-2012 12:31 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Hell, I am even looking for born in the 80's.

1984.

And I feel bad for the ladies; it's only getting worse as men become bigger and bigger pussies; why stand up for yourself, when the nanny state will do it for you?


How I handled a bully in my heyday: In fifth grade, this seventh grader was giving me shit and busting me down every day, so one day after being fed up, I said 'I've had it. You and me after school, let's go.'

We met up after school and squared off, and yeah, he won (he had a good five inches and 30 lbs. on me), but I did get a few nice shots in. After that, no one bothered me. This was how it generally went with kids my age; if another kid is bullying you, you'd fight them.

You'd think this was some rough-and-tumble 70's schoolyard, but no...it was in 1994.


How the kids today handle bullies: Start an Anti-bullying coalition, an Anti-bullying Facebook group, get signatures on petitions for the local member of Parliament to lobby an Anti-bullying bill, hold Anti-bullying rallies...basically do anything and everything you can but stand up to your bully face-to-face.

My cousin did this exact same thing. It's like ratting on someone to their parents.

Yeah this is what I am talking about.

You rarely even see kids playing outside anymore.

And kids are so mellow with each other. You never even see them fighting.

No exaggeration, when I was in grade school, I was in a fight at a least once a week.

Hell, sometimes 3 fights in a day in recess.

Maybe it's all the pharms they drug kids up with these days.

Anyway you slice it, I just don't see much.

I grew up in the late 90s/early 2000s and I got into all sorts of fights. Nobody was strong enough to really kick ass (it was mostly grappling, like UFC shit) but people got hurt all the time. Wild haymakers and the like.

One time I got jumped in fourth grade by six third graders. It was the dead of winter and Catholic school just got out. I was waiting out back by the snow forts for my mom to pick me up (since the school buses quit busing to where I lived).

These guys liked to tease me. They didn't like that I was from a poor family and a teacher's pet. I didn't like their attitudes. Those guys were also really heavy on the gay innuendos. I was outnumbered.

So they charged and I got low and started swinging left and right hooks with no coordination at all. One left right away because he didn't want to get caught fighting. I grabbed the biggest dude and tripped him as hard as I could into a snowbank. He was buried (face into the ground) past his shoulders in snow. When he started crying another dude sort of buggered off.

The rest of us grappled and rolled in the snow for probably fifteen minutes. I couldn't leave until there was just one left. Mom was in the office talking to the teachers (she was friends with two of them) and figured I was out back playing.

All I ended up getting was a very bloody nose and kneed in the nads. It could have ended up very bad because they kept trying to nudge me towards the ice/asphalt so they could trip me and knock my head into the ground. This happened to someone else in my grade (they slipped on ice and hit their head on the asphalt) and she bit off the end of her tongue and got a concussion.

Among the other kids, there were four black eyes, some frostnip, a bloody nose, gut bruises, and a twisted arm. I got told on and was punished no differently than the other two kids who ratted. That pissed me off more than anything as a kid. Any sane person could see that I would have been fucked if I hesitated or tried running to the adults.
That was 2000 I think.


I think that the way bullies are dealt with today (and back then I guess) where parents get involved long-distance (facebooking, etc), is retarded bullshit. It completely demolishes a kid's perspective. After that day, I was not afraid to fight with kids (until high school). I took hits, got hurt a little bit, and didn't care since I brought fear to all the douchers who'd tease me in class. I was way too shy to properly shit-talk at lunch and whatnot, and their words hurt since other people would laugh. Even if I lost fights (I did lose a lot of them in Catholic school), putting up resistance for bullies and showing that you do not care for their bullshit usually shows them what's up.

One time I fought the same guy three times on three consecutive days until he "lost". We ended up really good friends.

Bullying would have been way worse on me growing up if I wasn't able to tango physically. Tackling and gut-punching somebody who felt entitled to talk shit because you're different is liberating.

As a product of the modern school system I have this to say about the fighting etc.
They teach you at the youngest age to not roll with the wrong kids or get into fights. Even any kind of unwanted physical contact, I threw a SNOWBALL at my SISTER and nearly got suspended from school for a few days. I used to roll with a few guys when i was 10-12and instead of play sports like the other kids we would just walk around talking to people. They called us aside to the principals office and said we shouldn't get involved in gangs (this was a rich area, no gangs) and did everything they could to separate us. The punishments for fighting were severe, week long suspensions and after 3 offenses expulsion = you have to go to another school, these kids usually ended up dealing drugs to get by or instead dropouts who did nothing with their lives.

Because of the extreme punishments for fighting any kind of fighting was a huge deal and most of the time it was a gang beating as opposed to a fight, this caused the one guy to get weapons, people get stabbed etc. I guess its because they know they're fucked either way so why not hurt the other guy as badly as possible.

My problem with this is the lack of honor. Instead of calling a guy out and punching eachother for a while in the playground kids were jumping other kids with groups of people. Or when one guy was losing all of his friends would jump in and fuck the other guy up.

This causes everyone else to be scared of any guy whos known to fight = all of the guys are pussified.

With everyone being pussified they either head off to university believing their years of following orders and being a pussy will pay off or they become druggies and drop out. This is the case in my hometown. The only kids left there are fuckups.

Quote: (03-15-2012 01:34 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Quote: (03-15-2012 12:57 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

How I handled a bully in my heyday: In fifth grade, this seventh grader was giving me shit and busting me down every day, so one day after being fed up, I said 'I've had it. You and me after school, let's go.'

We met up after school and squared off, and yeah, he won (he had a good five inches and 30 lbs. on me), but I did get a few nice shots in. After that, no one bothered me. This was how it generally went with kids my age; if another kid is bullying you, you'd fight them.

You'd think this was some rough-and-tumble 70's schoolyard, but no...it was in 1994.

How the kids today handle bullies: Start an Anti-bullying coalition, an Anti-bullying Facebook group, get signatures on petitions for the local member of Parliament to lobby an Anti-bullying bill, hold Anti-bullying rallies...basically do anything and everything you can but stand up to your bully face-to-face.

My cousin did this exact same thing. It's like ratting on someone to their parents.

Today's high-school kid, early-to-mid-20s guy:

You know what the real hilarious thing about all of this anti-bullying stuff (that's been around a lot longer than you'd think) is?

Today, we have women complaining that men aren't 'manning up'...that in itself isn't hilarious, nor does it have to do with the fact that a lot of these women are physically and emotionally ugly people, that's a part of it, but the real cause?

My cohort, the 77-86ers, were the first real group of people to pass through an institutionally feminized education system where 'manning up' (standing up for yourself) was discouraged, and 'female' values (getting someone else to fight your battles, raising 'awareness') were encouraged; we were taught to rely on the protection of a more powerful agent from a very young age when you realize it. We were the test group, and it didn't take with everyone, but it's certainly doing a number on today's youth (though there will always be people that reject it, my cousin I believe is a '94).

Want to know why so many men aren't 'manning up'? Because they were discouraged from doing so from a very early age. When as a child you're in an environment that actively represses what you really are, how are you supposed to become it later in life?

Hell, my school was like The Outsiders:






El Mech?

Especially when I was really young.

I remember going to a high school/junior high rumble with my two best friends when I was in 3rd or 4th grade to watch.

There were a lot of one on one's in those days. I guess we got lucky.

By the time I got to high school, things got ugly.

But it made college seem like a cakewalk.

I generally used to beat the other children really bad if they tried to laugh at me or tease me.I would come to them and tell them what is the problem motherfucker and then punch them.After a while noone dared to tease or do any shit.They called me the killer.However with time it became worse because I broke some heads,arms,legs and the parents would come and threaten to take me to court so my father beat me in order not to beat other children.So at some time I decided to stop beating other children because with muscle growth and gymnastics it had become dangerous.I almost suffocated some of them in some cases.
By the time I stopped I noticed they started to become very disrespectful but this is the problem if you hit them they will call the authorities most guys are pussies.I have never called the authorities no matter what happens I prefer to take the condition in my hands.
I also remember when we played football and I took the worst players to play with me and tried to win against the best players.I always wanted to win against stronger opponents I did not like to score against unskilled guys.At the end all football matches ended with beatings I became mad when we lost and started beating the opposite side players or even my players for not playing good.

Quote: (03-15-2012 11:22 AM)americanInEurope Wrote:  

What's a Murkabeast?

Something like a Wildebeest, only it's human. Sort of. By definition, only found in Murka.


What kind of girls are you messing with here that you think are just so dumb? ..... dumb like all they care about is hair and makeup. ...


If the third one is what you're talking about, I find it hard to believe that there isn't something those girls are into deep down inside. In Japan, girls there are super super hot and usually put up a shy and demure front for guys because they think that's what they like. They generally don't talk about themselves unless someone digs. Some guys like this in a woman actually

Another good point.. some chicks have SOMETHING they are fascinated with.

But there are a lot that really have never had a very interesting thought.

Similar to the aphorism "You can find something good in almost anybody, if you wait long enough" haha!

I think in Japan you are dealing with women that are on average above average for the world. I remember hearing Japanese people have an average 120 IQ.

Some women you can kind of sense they are more interesting.. and it can take some work finding out why

Also among us in every class year there was always one guy who was considered the chief in football basketball etc.He could beat every other guy and if any guy dared to refuse his authority he gave him a good beating.
These guys when we played football for example and you stole the ball from their feet would give you such a kick from behind to your legs that you could almost not move.You should stand the pain though and continue.If you tripled a guy the amount of kicking would be gross.I remember in some cases after heavy tacklings to my legs I would leave the ball despite being in position to score come back to the guy who did the tackling and start kicking him relentlessly while he lay on the ground.
Other times when we did not have balls to kick we would play football with stones and kick stones not the best for legs or goalkeepers of course.
Another game was to try to make a guy fall from bicycle by throwing pinecones between the wheels.Another was the dark room.4 guys would stay in the 4 corners of a room close the light and then move to each other.The goal was to beat the shit out of the other guy in the dark.It was very interesting in the sense you did not know who you were beating.
Another game involved hiding and when found having to run away.This was played on streets and blocks of flats.The streets were full of cars passing by.It was quite common to pass just in front of the car coming in speed so that the guy chasing you had to stop for a second for the car to pass.We were the first generation to grow between cars with no open places to play so we played often football on streets and pavements as cars passed by but we were so skilled we have never been injured.

I rarely if ever comment on this forum, right now I feel compelled to.

A lot of you guys made some interesting points. The conversation has gotten slightly off topic, but to provide the perspective of a (late) 80's baby:

Every generation has the same problem with the one before it. They are always pussies, weirdos, freaks, hopeless, at least in this country. As such, structure is constantly being added to prevent the "young idiots" from "hurting themselves."

Kids don't play outside anymore because their parents are terrified of the "amber alert" nightmare scenario. And, while in 1960 kids may have been kidnapped just as often (or more often), the parents CANNOT avoid the news now. Even if they try. Walk through an airport, a bar, a doctor's office without catching a glimpse of CNN "this just in breaking news."

G - I am a fan of yours and respect (and mirror) your feelings on most things. I watched the movie Summer of Sam last night by Spike Lee. Great period flick about New York in the summer of 1977. Everyone smokes inside, everyone hangs out on the corner, everyone knows everyone in the neighborhood, everyone goes to the same italian restaurant to pay tribute to the local bosses, everyone has a gun on the mantelpiece for PROTECTION. Tell me ONE of those things that still exists today. Shit, introduce me to someone YOUNGER than 30 with an actual, inherited New York, Boston, Philly......accent??? Everyone talks like Ryan Sea Crest, because you see and hear him more than you see and hear your own parents.

The bottom line is, the 80/20 rule applies as much today as it ever has. 80% of guys have weak constitution, that's just the way it is. Yes, having lived in a multitude of major cities, I have witnessed the most atrocious get-her-drunk-enough-to-forget-that-I'm-just-a-boring-banker-desk-jockey (MANHATTAN) behavior on the highest level, in some of the biggest ticket joints around.

americanInEurope, I feel your pain, and it frustrates me to no end -- however nobody should let it get to them. Easier said than done, of course. But I have to echo another thing you said, about the ones who are DOWN -- many women have a capacity for that. They can be, and WANT to be, LED into behaving that way. "Be the change you want to see in the world" -- remember that for every 100, 200, or 500 good-looking broads who are dating some weirdo, you'll have your 3 (shouts to Sonny), and you'll make them count.

Oh, and G - Action Bronson, born '84.

Great comment.

Quote: (03-15-2012 07:13 PM)topshelf305 Wrote:  

Oh, and G - Action Bronson, born '84.

Ha.

That is the only good one I have seen so far.

However, again, you are making my point.

This again is a surgically precise example of the "Follow The Leader" ethos of the new generations.

Action Bronson is a second rate version of:











But that is how it is these days.

If you are a second or third rate version of the 70's baby, you are the dopest in your generation.

Don't wanna get into a huge debate here, but the 00's had a crazy revolution in the way rock sounds.

Radiohead, with their album "Kid A" pretty much made electronic rock the norm.

Then there's animal collective, bringing experimental music more crazy than most 60's music into the mainstream.

Daft Punk and The Avalanches didn't take old house - they created all mainstream club music you hear today.

Finally, the Strokes, Interpol, and The White Stripes made garage rock into more personal sounding jams that haven't been done since the 60's (like the Kinks).

The 00's were really a big revival of the 60's.


Most guys on here don't know about this shit, because you don't follow music.

I will concede, however, that this decade hasn't had much for new innovative rappers, the newest and best stuff coming in from Kanye West, Outkast, and Dizzee Rascal. But rap is dying. Time for new genres.

Quote: (03-15-2012 08:35 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Don't wanna get into a huge debate here, but the 00's had a crazy revolution in the way rock sounds.

Radiohead, with their album "Kid A" pretty much made electronic rock the norm.

Again, you guys are making my point.

Radiohead came out in 1992.

Daft Punk (more 70's babies) were huge in the 90's.

The White Stripes are more 70's babies.

The Strokes - more 70's babies.

I don't know about the rest but I would guess: more 70's babies.

Kayne - 70's baby.

Outkast - 70's babies. Breakthrough in the 90's. First album (a classic in 1994)

Quote: (03-15-2012 11:18 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Look at hip-hop.

All the best guys still are guys that were popular in the 90's. Jay-Z, Snoop, Em, 50 cent, I could go on for days.

Is there any doubt that Pac and Big wouldn't be the biggest in Hip hop if they were still alive?

Where is the new generations Pac and Big?

Kendrick Lamar

born in 87

No one is fucking with him right now in hip hop.

Hell even Snoop gave him props in that regard.

a few youtube vids -












In fact there's a few other cats I could name but I don't want to go too off topic w/ this thread. Hip hop is alive and well in the 80's/90's generation.

@ sine wave... Hilarious dude but i dont think most the peeps who would be listening to tupac and biggie as rap would understand that kinda piece... Everyone has their own style so i have no interest in throwing up more people. Besides... Maybe I grew up too poor but Mac Dre and Yukmouth is actual rap.... since 84 "choke the blood out your bitch get strangled"... Kidnap you... etc... Pretty soon someone is gonna come on here and throw out the Meek Mill House Party song etc. no point. Tupac and Biggie were clowns IMHO but thats just an opinion on rap music.

Anyway this forum has just helped my confidence a lot as i realize i can throw out hardcore rap songs to girls now and they'll be absolutely confused by my preppy look. Bottom line for this thread on why average dude has no game it is because average dude is not interesting... at all.

Quote: (03-15-2012 09:04 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

@ sine wave... Hilarious dude but i dont think most the peeps who would be listening to tupac and biggie as rap would understand that kinda piece... Everyone has their own style so i have no interest in throwing up more people. Besides... Maybe I grew up too poor but Mac Dre and Yukmouth is actual rap.... since 84 "choke the blood out your bitch get strangled"... Kidnap you... etc... Pretty soon someone is gonna come on here and throw out the Meek Mill House Party song etc. no point. Tupac and Biggie were clowns IMHO but thats just an opinion on rap music.

haha

Honestly I can't front, a lot of those Meek Mill club records are trash but duke can flow (his street records on the other hand are ridiculous but the production is trash).

back to the regularly scheduled discussion yerp.

This topic train has derailed

Quote: (03-15-2012 09:22 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

This topic train has derailed

sure the fuck has