Question mostly for Americans, but anyone can vote.

Israel is currently doing their best to provoke WW3 by attacking Assad, Russia and Iran in the Middle East.

Personally, I think the jews are hellraising, warmongering, malcontents who seemingly want nothing but death and destruction.

How do YOU feel though?

Fuck them, they only give a shit about themselves.

I don't want any of our soldiers dragged into another Middle East Conflict.

The fact we have joint FOB's in Syria is ridiculous, ISIS is wiped out for the most part.

What's even more interesting is that Israel and Russians have a direct hotline to each other.

Case in point, when Israel jet's flew into Syrian airspace and wiped out alot of Syria/Iranian air defense systems because a drone from the IRG went into Israeli airspace.

Russians were given a heads up, who didn't give Syrians or the Iranian military a heads up.

I personally don't have any problems with Jews and think it's a bit silly and ridiculous to conflate 'Jews' and 'Israel'. That said, I want no part of any fucking shooting war between them and Iran.

Enough with the dumbass foreign wars already.

I don't want Israel going off and starting wars, but Iran and the other Arab powers have done plenty to provoke Israel. Most criticisms of Israel are based on the way they react to Iranian and Arab provocations. Some of the provocations are merely words, like saying Israel is the Great Satan and needs to be exterminated, but plenty are actual deadly attacks.

If you were Israel, what would you do? If you were Iran, would how hard would it be to avoid problems with Israel?

If Iran provokes Israel sufficiently with acts of war, then I would support Israel defending itself, and in certain cases, I would support preemptive attacks.

Quote: (02-13-2018 04:02 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

I don't want Israel going off and starting wars, but Iran and the other Arab powers have done plenty to provoke Israel. Most criticisms of Israel are based on the way they react to Iranian and Arab provocations. Some of the provocations are merely words, like saying Israel is the Great Satan and needs to be exterminated, but plenty are actual deadly attacks.

If you were Israel, what would you do? If you were Iran, would how hard would it be to avoid problems with Israel?

If Iran provokes Israel sufficiently with acts of war, then I would support Israel defending itself, and in certain cases, I would support preemptive attacks.

The Israelis can do what they want---they are a sovereign nation. But we should stay out of it, full stop. Any help we do provide should be kind that comes with zero American boots on the ground and price cap of 1 billion dollars (yes i know that's basically nothing). I've had it up to my nutsack with working class American boys getting shipped off to die in Jews vs Arabs, part 569864 in a series without end.

An interesting thought experiment is to just replace Israel with any other country in the world with around 8 million people. Would you agree that the U.S. should fight for that random country?

The only thing that makes Israel so different is how many dual citizens with divided loyalties they have packed the upper echelons of the U.S. government and upper class society with.

The U.S. government and the general public has been trained like good little attack dogs to bark and bite at whoever Israel points their finger towards.

The U.S. should absolutely not fight and die for Israel but hey guess what's going to happen if war with Iran happens. Lots of goyim cannon fodder out there waiting to be exploited.

Quote: (02-13-2018 04:02 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

I don't want Israel going off and starting wars, but Iran and the other Arab powers have done plenty to provoke Israel. Most criticisms of Israel are based on the way they react to Iranian and Arab provocations. Some of the provocations are merely words, like saying Israel is the Great Satan and needs to be exterminated, but plenty are actual deadly attacks.

If you were Israel, what would you do? If you were Iran, would how hard would it be to avoid problems with Israel?

If Iran provokes Israel sufficiently with acts of war, then I would support Israel defending itself, and in certain cases, I would support preemptive attacks.

You support Israel continuously annexing land and bombing Syrian airspace? Should we support Syria against Israel then?

Anyone who doesn't bow down to Israeli will is deemed a terrorist state. Gotta get dat greater Israel.

Let them kill each other. Not our problem.

To put this poll another way, should we spend billions of dollars and thousands of lives over the next decade for another Middle East war?

No, allies are constantly shifting. I say we have a lot bigger ally in the UK or Canada than we do with Israel; and the history to back it up. Would Israel jump to our defense if we were to be invaded? I think not. I think they view us much like a kid views their parent, the cosigners on their loan for a liberal arts degree. With disdain and a knowledge that the loan won't be paid off by the kid. Their intelligence services have an adversarial relationship with ours, although I don't think you'll hear of this in MSM.

That being said, if the Israelis have a stated position or role to play in preventing nuclear proliferation, regional peace, ongoing dialogue with ME nations I heartily applaud them.

What have they gotten away with on our watch? There's the USS Liberty Incident... All the handouts we give them in aid, despite being developed... And we're interceded on their behalf way too many times.

God forbid it ever come to a war, but if it does, I don't think it's in our interests to further escalate the war, by backing up baby brother israel. KSA would probably team up against Iran whether we wanted it or not, and I have no interest in seeing American brothers get butchered to fulfill other country's territorial aims, much less their tribal grudges.

Israel will fight against Iran to the last dead American soldier.

One thing I find a bit strange is that Iran is against Israel is because of Israel's perceived treatment of the Palestinians. Now if Iran did ever get a nuke and shoot it at Israel, wouldn't they kill all the Palestinians?

The US does nothing to protect Christians in the middle east - how many have died because of the American Evangelicals support for Israel? Some of the Christian Palestinians may have ancestors who walked with Jesus...I think the USA's actions in the Middle East show that it definitely Israel's (and Saudi Arabia's) bitch.

Imagine this alternative history:

Take the Oil: 30 Years Before America Invaded Iraq, it Almost Invaded Saudi Arabia

Quote:Quote:

America could have seized the oil fields with little problem. With the U.S. military now out of Vietnam, a couple of divisions could have been spared for the Middle East while still maintaining a force to guard against Soviet attack in Europe.

The last months of 1973 were a desperate time. The Arab oil-producing states had embargoed the United States in October, ostensibly in retaliation for U.S. military aid to Israel during the Yom Kippur War. By the time the embargo ended in March 1974, the damage had been done. World oil prices had quadrupled, triggering years of recession and inflation. No American who lived through the seventies will ever forget the long lines at gas stations that flew red or green flags to signal whether they had fuel in their pumps. With today’s oil market glutted and gas prices plummeting, it’s hard to remember that there was a time when Americans could only buy gas on certain days , depending on whether their license plates had odd or even numbers.

The world had been turned upside down. From being mere resource producers at the mercy of Western states and big oil companies, the oil-rich nations became global kingpins overnight, flush with so much cash that they could barely spend it all, and armed with the most expensive weapons, which they barely knew how to use. The world trembled before the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), whose mostly Middle Eastern members controlled the lifeblood of the global economy.

Like the rest of the world, the United States tamely paid the inflated oil prices. But rather than forking over the money, what if America had chosen to take the oil by force? In 2004, declassified British government documents revealed that the United States had considered a military seizure of Middle Eastern oil.

Though no explicit military plan was mentioned, the documents do show that British leaders were worried by a conversation between U.S. Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger and Lord Cromer, the British ambassador to the United States.

Schlesinger told Cromer that “it was no longer obvious to him that the US could not use force. An interesting outcome of the Middle East crisis was that the notion of the industrialized nations being continuously submitted to whims of the underpopulated under-developed countries, particularly of the Middle East, might well change public perceptions about the use of the power that was available to the U.S. and the Alliance.”

British Prime Minister Edward Heath was worried enough by Schlesinger’s tough talk, as well as hints of military action from Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, to order a British intelligence estimate of U.S. intentions. The report concluded that the United States “might consider it could not tolerate a situation in which the US and its allies were at the mercy of a small group of unreasonable countries. We believe the American preference would be for a rapid operation conducted by themselves to seize oilfields. . . The force required for the initial operation would be of the order of two brigades, one for Saudi operation, one for Kuwait and possibly a third for Abu Dhabi.

“The build-up would require the presence of a substantial US naval force in the Indian Ocean, considerably more than the present force. After the initial assaults. . . two [extra] divisions could be flown in from the USA.”

Britain’s Joint Intelligence Committee calculated that seizing oil fields totaling twenty-eight billion tons in reserves would have been sufficient to supply the United States and its allies. However, the report warned that “the American occupation would need to last 10 years as the West developed alternative energy sources, and would result in the ‘total alienation’ of the Arabs and much of the rest of the Third World.” British analysts also worried about the Soviet reaction, though they concluded that Moscow would be more likely to respond with propaganda than force.

America could have seized the oil fields with little problem. With the U.S. military now out of Vietnam, a couple of divisions could have been spared for the Middle East while still maintaining a force to guard against Soviet attack in Europe. In 1973, the Saudis lacked all those high-tech American and European weapons, such as F-15s and AWACS, that the oil windfall would buy them a few years later. Even now, there are grave doubts about the ability of the Saudi military to use sophisticated arms. As for Kuwait’s military, it couldn’t stop Saddam Hussein in 1990, and wouldn’t have stopped the U.S. Marines in 1973.

Had this been the British Empire in the nineteenth century, or Teddy Roosevelt’s "gunboat diplomacy ," force would almost certainly have been used. But in the end, the United States and the world did nothing but pay more at the pump (those who want to see how a military operation might have fared are advised to find a copy of the 1975 paper war game Oil War).

The fact was that the oil embargo came at the worse possible time. U.S. oil production had been declining since 1970, inflation was soaring, President Nixon was embroiled in the Watergate scandal, America had just withdrawn from Vietnam, the U.S. military was in a shambles and the last thing the American public wanted was another war. A long-term occupation of the Middle East might have required the reintroduction of the draft, which would have brought back the draft riots of the sixties.

If the United States had occupied the Arabian oil fields, it would probably have done so alone. The British clearly had no appetite for it. NATO’s reaction can be gauged by the fact that America’s allies, except for Portugal, denied overflight and refueling rights to U.S. transport aircraft engaged in airlifting supplies to Israel during the Yom Kippur War. The Third World, still emerging from its anticolonial liberation struggles, could hardly have endorsed it. Ironically, the one nation that might not have been unfavorable was Iran, America’s major ally in the Persian Gulf at the time.

Ultimately, the test case for a 1973 invasion of Saudi Arabia came thirty years later, with the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The conditions were far different: Saudi Arabia had a much smaller population than Iraq, and the U.S. goal would have been occupation of natural resources rather than regime change. Yet what might have ensued was an early version of the War on Terror. There was no Al Qaeda, and Osama bin Laden was just a spoiled Saudi rich kid. But in the early 1970s, there was Arab nationalism, Pan-Arabism, Arab leftists who still believed in Communism, and a plethora of terrorist groups in the Middle East, Europe and Japan just looking for a cause to fight for. Instead of suicide bombers, there would have been guerilla warfare, terrorism and perhaps even a pre–bin Laden surge in Islamic fundamentalism.

In the end, just like Iraq, the question would have remained: What do you do with the territory after you’ve taken it? A permanent occupation that would have turned the Saudi oil fields into another Guantánamo Bay enclave? Or do you return the oil fields only if OPEC lowered prices, which would have left embittered relations between the world and its biggest oil producers?

The best solution then is still the best solution today: find another energy source that doesn’t rely on foreign oil.

Quote: (02-14-2018 12:20 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

One thing I find a bit strange is that Iran is against Israel is because of Israel's perceived treatment of the Palestinians. Now if Iran did ever get a nuke and shoot it at Israel, wouldn't they kill all the Palestinians?

The US does nothing to protect Christians in the middle east - how many have died because of the American Evangelicals support for Israel? Some of the Christian Palestinians may have ancestors who walked with Jesus...I think the USA's actions in the Middle East show that it definitely Israel's (and Saudi Arabia's) bitch.

Hundreds of thousands of ME Christians have fled to other nations due to persecution in the middle east in the last 15 years alone. We have quite a few organizations set up to help our own people but it's not enough.

Honestly nobody gives a flying fuck. We tend to be lighter skinned than our Muslim counterparts and we vote conservatively. We score no social justice points. Plus certain factions in the ME have lobbying efforts to silence our voices in international forums. (Turks/Kurds etc)

There seemed to be no end to ISIS and derivatives of ISIS. For quite some time the safest place for us was in....Iran.

Quote: (02-14-2018 01:27 AM)fiasco360 Wrote:  

Quote: (02-14-2018 12:20 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

One thing I find a bit strange is that Iran is against Israel is because of Israel's perceived treatment of the Palestinians. Now if Iran did ever get a nuke and shoot it at Israel, wouldn't they kill all the Palestinians?

The US does nothing to protect Christians in the middle east - how many have died because of the American Evangelicals support for Israel? Some of the Christian Palestinians may have ancestors who walked with Jesus...I think the USA's actions in the Middle East show that it definitely Israel's (and Saudi Arabia's) bitch.

Hundreds of thousands of ME Christians have fled to other nations due to persecution in the middle east in the last 15 years alone. We have quite a few organizations set up to help our own people but it's not enough.

Honestly nobody gives a flying fuck. We tend to be lighter skinned than our Muslim counterparts and we vote conservatively. We score no social justice points. Plus certain factions in the ME have lobbying efforts to silence our voices in international forums. (Turks/Kurds etc)

There seemed to be no end to ISIS and derivatives of ISIS. For quite some time the safest place for us was in....Iran.

I'm convinced the Kurd lobby is one of the strongest MENA lobbies in the US. Don't understand what the deal with the kurds is.

On a related subject, seems like christians in ME, Copts in Egypt come to mind, but also smaller populations, in say, Lebanon, have been really screwed by recent developments. Of course, dictators, whatever you want to call them, have treated the christians really well, so when CIA overthrows them, we hurt "the moderates", literally. never made much sense to me.

Quote: (02-14-2018 01:34 AM)Dragan Wrote:  

Quote: (02-14-2018 01:27 AM)fiasco360 Wrote:  

Quote: (02-14-2018 12:20 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

One thing I find a bit strange is that Iran is against Israel is because of Israel's perceived treatment of the Palestinians. Now if Iran did ever get a nuke and shoot it at Israel, wouldn't they kill all the Palestinians?

The US does nothing to protect Christians in the middle east - how many have died because of the American Evangelicals support for Israel? Some of the Christian Palestinians may have ancestors who walked with Jesus...I think the USA's actions in the Middle East show that it definitely Israel's (and Saudi Arabia's) bitch.

Hundreds of thousands of ME Christians have fled to other nations due to persecution in the middle east in the last 15 years alone. We have quite a few organizations set up to help our own people but it's not enough.

Honestly nobody gives a flying fuck. We tend to be lighter skinned than our Muslim counterparts and we vote conservatively. We score no social justice points. Plus certain factions in the ME have lobbying efforts to silence our voices in international forums. (Turks/Kurds etc)

There seemed to be no end to ISIS and derivatives of ISIS. For quite some time the safest place for us was in....Iran.

I'm convinced the Kurd lobby is one of the strongest MENA lobbies in the US. Don't understand what the deal with the kurds is.

On a related subject, seems like christians in ME, Copts in Egypt come to mind, but also smaller populations, in say, Lebanon, have been really screwed by recent developments. Of course, dictators, whatever you want to call them, have treated the christians really well, so when CIA overthrows them, we hurt "the moderates", literally. never made much sense to me.

Oil discovery in their "territories" in the last decade or so have drastically improved their lobbying efforts and PR.

They are forging documentation and squatting on land previously owned by Assyrians who have lived in the same areas for thousands of years. They also assassinate political leaders. The local governance the represents Christians has complained to the Iraqi government and KRG multiple times to no avail. One of our political leaders compared them to modern mafias but much worse because they aren't just after money- they want to erase an ethnic identity. They tried 100 years ago with the Turks and they are still trying but they look "nicer" now.

Aint no Iranian ever called me Goy.

If Israel were a good-faith actor surrounded by insane muslims that wanted them dead simply because they were Jews then I would absolutely go to their aid.

But the reality is that they want us to die for them for free and afterward they'll laugh at our dead and our crippled when the fighting ends.

"Look at those dumb goy cannonfodder? How can they be this stupid?"

I feel sympathy for the common Jew who just tries to get along but history bears out the simple fact that his is the vindictive gamma of races. When the Jewish elite cease pozzing the world and make efforts to unwind the cultural damage they've done to the West? When they put out arrest warrants for the Soros' of the world? Then we can talk.

This infers that Israel would need the United States' help. It's the most militarily based society in the world other than North Korea, and is armed to the teeth. It could probably take on all the countries surrounding it at the same time and win.

Unfortunately if it did need help, it would probably drag the US/UK/NATO in, which could prove a problem if Turkey (which for some reason is a NATO member) refused to help or even helped Iran.

It's just made me realise that the only upshot of Corbyn ever getting in to power that we wouldn't go to war for Israel. I think all of our other leaders would say we're 'morally bound' to doing so seeing as we created it.

Looks like the thread has attracted the conspiracy theorists. Interesting to note that Soros and Israel don't actually have a good relationship. The most important thing to note is that US/International Jews =/= Israeli Jews in their lobbying and way of thinking.

Poll said "support" not send American troops, etc... support is a pretty broad statement.

Why is Isreal called the US's greatest ally, and not another anglosphere country?

Quote: (02-13-2018 02:20 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Question mostly for Americans, but anyone can vote.

Israel is currently doing their best to provoke WW3 by attacking Assad, Russia and Iran in the Middle East.

Personally, I think the jews are hellraising, warmongering, malcontents who seemingly want nothing but death and destruction.

How do YOU feel though?

Look - Jewish globalist organisations are not your friend and are very evil, but Islam is not your friend either.

The people in both countries will be used for pawn anyway.

Sooner or later WWIII with Islam will come anyway.

Though there won't be a direct conflict of Israel vs Iran. A war between Saudi Arabia and Iran is more likely.

The total war of Islam vs Everyone else won't be here for another decades.

So the topic is more complex than it seems.

At one hand Islam is shit, but Isreal's leadership is partly shit too. ON the other hand even Muslim Israeli Arabs living in Israel get a far better life than in almost any Muslim country and would not want to leave even if they were given a lot of cash and a moving truck to Saudi Arabia. So one might argue that Israel itself is not the devil incarnate - part of their Talmudic leadership is for sure.

And honestly - there won't be any choice. The US will be fighting on the side of Israel instantly. Hell - if Turkey barges in on the other side then WWIII can begin sooner than anticipated.

Maybe the 50 mio. Muslims in Europe can join and we get it over with.

But as I said - no such conflict will happen.

Quote: (02-14-2018 04:38 AM)britchard Wrote:  

This infers that Israel would need the United States' help. It's the most militarily based society in the world other than North Korea, and is armed to the teeth. It could probably take on all the countries surrounding it at the same time and win.

Unfortunately if it did need help, it would probably drag the US/UK/NATO in, which could prove a problem if Turkey (which for some reason is a NATO member) refused to help or even helped Iran.

It's just made me realise that the only upshot of Corbyn ever getting in to power that we wouldn't go to war for Israel. I think all of our other leaders would say we're 'morally bound' to doing so seeing as we created it.

Looks like the thread has attracted the conspiracy theorists. Interesting to note that Soros and Israel don't actually have a good relationship. The most important thing to note is that US/International Jews =/= Israeli Jews in their lobbying and way of thinking.

That is another thing - Israel out-matches Iran by far. They would not be going in for occupation as well - pure destructive war is easier done than direct infantry control of an entire country.

And another thing - if you really believe that Palestinians and all the Muslim surrounding neighbors of Israel are just benevolent peaceful people motivated by the Religion of Peace then I have a room for you and your girlfriend at a German refugee centers where you can find out for yourself if everything is peace and glory about it.

I hate Israel's and Jewish meddling in Western countries like any other, but I try to view things as clearly as possibly with all facets. The 500.000 Jews living in France are not raping and killing their way through the country, but the 2.5 mio. Muslims newcomers in Europe do.

Though to be fair - Iran/Persia is the most intellectual nation and the fall of the Shah was a big tragedy. Personally I think that it was even orchestrated by the globalists who wanted their Ayatollah to rule and keep the country backwards by the power of the regressive cult of Islam. And that has been achieved. Keep in mind that despite their moronic rule that Iran has made considerable progress in many fields. If the Shah had remained in power, then it would be on the level of Dubai - just smarter.

But unfortunately we won't get there.

Though Iran is still on the firing line of the globalists and how they do it remains to be seen.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/22/could-sa...o-war.html

Quote:Quote:

Could Saudi Arabia and Iran really go to war?

Quote:Quote:

Saudi Arabia and Iran's ongoing battle for power and influence rages on in the Middle East but analysts aren't convinced that an all-out war will happen, yet.
Many neighboring countries have been drawn into the conflict with Qatar, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon becoming proxy battlegrounds in the fight for regional dominance.

I think that the globalist will wait until Trump's second term for the war. But we shall see. In the end countless innocent Iranians will lose their lives, Israel will be mostly unharmed. If the corporations want Iran's gas and oil, then they will send in US ground troops so that American goys can get their legs blown off for Mr.Rothschild&Co.

No. Fuck'em.

Not one boot. Not one red cent. Not one bullet.

We got bigger problems at home and have already been at war for nearly 16 years.

G

Quote: (02-14-2018 03:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Aint no Iranian ever called me Goy.

9/10, would laugh again.

I'm just tickled how it's the year 2018 and there's still people who don't believe Jews dominate the power structure in the U.S.

There's nothing conspiracy minded about pointing out that:

Jewish elites have near complete control over the mainstream Republican party and have turned all policies towards the neocon agenda which has been designed around supporting Israel. There are policy papers which outright state this as the case. Even mainstream Democratic policies are weighed heavily towards the neocon agenda. In fact the two parties' foreign policies converge more often than not when it comes to Israel and foreign wars (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, etc..) related to protecting Israel's interests.

Jewish elites and their representatives have dominated the federal reserve for the longest time. Even if you look outside of the fed it's full of powerful Jews in wall street or key figureheads in banking or investment firms...ie. Goldman Sachs.

Academia. Just look at the various chairmen and professors advocating for pro Israel and "progressivist" type policies. Most of them have some kind of background in marxism or they promote a jewish-centric version of Randian style conservativism combined with modern neoconservative policies. Ben Shapiro is a pretty good example of the latter but he's not an academic but is the product of an elite institution run by Jews.

Part of Jewish nepotism is to even go as far as to subvert competition in elite institutions when they feel threatened. You can even see this being done to whites as well as asian-americans when it comes to affirmative action.

The media. Just look at Hollywood and every other mainstream political pundit. Wiki up their profile and check out their family background. Notice how it doesn't matter if they are left or right leaning that they all pretty much advocate for similar policy concerns when it comes to foreign wars or Israel. 'nuff said.