Samseau well said...
I would also like to add a few details that the sheep probably don't know.
I find it funny that everyone here has a comment about a situation they KNOW NOTHING ABOUT and have gotten all their FACTS (oxymoron) from the mass media. The same media that In other threads those same posters are quick to state that the media lies, is bias and has an agenda regarding other issues like Ukraine crisis, Syrian crisis or Feminism
Quote:Quote:
Why are the police in cases like this so inept? Are they trained to treat civilians as potential enemies in need of submission? This isn't an isolated case either.
It should not be a case where a police officer can use excessive force and get away with it because nobody on his "team" did anything. That is a serious question that affects all races in the USA.
Who said they were inept? are you a trained law enforcement instructor? you have no fucking clue so you have no right to decide it was inept or not lol. That would be like telling a heart surgeon he is doing his operation wrong if you aren't a doctor. Go read police science and tactics books 1st at least and then you can be a backseat driver...FOOLSGOLD indeed!
He also stopped being a innocent civilian the minute he broke the law..he became a perpetrator/criminal. They don't get the same treatment obviously.
As for using excessive force that CLEARLY isn't the case. Cops are suppose to use the minimum amount of force to get the job done. As mentioned there is nothing LESS minimum in the force escalation then bare hands. They didn't shoot him or even take out their batons(which they legally could do). And if his health was that bad..thank god they didn't use pepper spray..he might have gone into cardiac arrest.
I counted only 5-6 officers that actually put a hand on him..not the 12 you conjured up and if you look they most of the time don't have hands on him at the same time(and a few times it looks just as if a few fingers are on the guy probably to tell him to calm down,no actual pressure). You also can clearly see that he was fighting them. In the old days it would have taken 1 -2 officers because they would have just slammed him face 1st into the wall/ground. Maybe he would have lived then..you think? but because of cameras and whiny civilians cops avoid that today(unless in a life or death fight).
Conclusion: the guys own condition is at fault which the cops had no way of knowing. As far as they assumed he was a really big tough guy who was ready to fight(he said such).
I can state as a fact the media is usually more wrong than right when it comes to police incidents. There job is to sell newspapers.
I worked with a guy who stopped in at a blimpies on the way to work years ago to get a sandwich. Somehow his firearm fell out of his hidden compartment(off duty carry) and went off and it shot him in the big toe.
The NYPOST and other paparazzi media promptly reported that
"cop shoots women in the butt in a blimpies",LOL LOL. I mean are they on crack?
Even more funny when the jealous journalists start criticizing pensions. They make up all facts that aren't true. For example they actually reported the retired cops get a Christmas bonus every year(12k to be exact). But it isn't a bonus it is actually a variable supplement that is owed to cops from investments in the pension fund for the unions BAILING out the city in the 70's with their own pension funds. And during good times the 12k is much less than the profit the city is making off our funds.
I should be saying that those cops are right because after all I wore the uniform..but I am NOT, simply becauswe we actually have a rule(no it isn't the blue wall of silence). The rule is we can't/won't make judgments on incidents that we weren't involved in since we simply don't KNOW what really happened. Listening the Al Sharpton and the paparazzi isn't going to explain anything. But being human we certainly gossip and make conclusions as well as go on FACT finding missions. Pretty easy to do. All a cop has to do is call the investigators/IAB that is on the scene and hope for some inside info(IAB isn't our friend).
Here is a few things that were found out: but 1st the truth about training:
1. Cops are authorized to STOP people who are non compliant/breaking the law. There are rules of escalation, kind of like GAME lol. Using ones hands is the lowest form. Pepperspray isn't even considered force since the risk of injury is tiny.
From the incident that happened they used their hands so they did the right thing. There is NOTHING lower that they can use. Cops are paid to win! They aren't allowed to let someone break the law and laugh at them and walk away. It isn't allowed and NEVER will be..that invites anarchy!
As for choke holds they are LEGAl. If it was US marshals OR FBI or even maybe state police making the arrest they would have done it so all the talk about it being a crime because it was a choke hold is BS. It was just breaking NYPD rules.. NO MORE a crime than you breaking your work rules by standing near a water cooler past your break. So there can't be an indictment based on that.
Indictments are done if it is murder( homicide) or negligence. Only an idiot would say it was murder..Murder means intent. Those cops as far as I know never met the guy and didn't say" lets go kill a fat criminal black guy today" so that is just BS Al Sharpton posturing. Even worst since Staten island is the most white area of NYC. Very Italian there!
As for negligence..certainly a possibility. But to prove that there would have to be evidence that what the cops did was completely out of order and completely unnecessary. As far as we know that hasn't been proven. All the cops did is put a resisting 300 lb big guy down and try to restrain him to get cuffs on. That is their job. We don't have any other tactics or training to get that done. Not the cops fault that the guy had a big health problem..and if he did, why the fuck is he ready to fight them.
One poster on this forum said something stupid the other day about a shooting, that the cop should have shot the guy in the hand. I would like toslap him silly for that.
It is impossible..too many movies being watch. 99.999% of cops probably can't even put a bullet from a Glock into a palm from a few feet away. We are not using sniper rifles you know. Pistols aren't that easy to aim AND moving targets of a small hand is almost impossible..it is luck
and if you shoot someone in the hand the round goes though and hits a 5 yr old down the block. Cops are trained to stop..that means CENTER MASS and you prey the round doesn't go though.
We recommend shotguns loaded with buck shot for home protection for that reason. Using a 9 mm will be dangerous because the rounds go though the walls and hit people in the next room.
Here is 2 facts that have come out but not necessarily is being media reported:
1. "The big black guy, out of shape career criminal say
"It ends here", signalling he will not go gently into that set of handcuffs. His struggle, resistance, poor physical shape, decision to not be arrested dictated the sequence of events, tragic results".the cops did not initiate the directive to arrest the loosey salesman
2. in the past when choke holds were used, quite a few suspects probably escaped serious injury due to police gaining swift control, compliance, with an actual choke hold. The cop in this incident was not even tall enough to properly employ a choke hold, forbidden by the Patrol Guide, but
completely legal in the New York State Penal Code. Garner can clearly be heard
yelling I can't breathe after the officer no longer has his arms anywhere near Garner's neck.
One thing
I will agree with , the incidents do create a racial divide, mistrust of the police. However, the culprits in the racial divide, violence, looting, rioting, are the media, that generate ratings and money by creating the "news", professional racial agitators that make a living off such tragedies, and the repeated outright lies by people(foolsgold? lol) that never witnessed an event are what fan the flames of discord, destruction and violence.
As for those who keep talking about how the police are out of control,well here are facts from the largest police dept in the US?: Clearly there are less shootins now in the last 10 years than in the whole 40 year period. Add to it that the population of the city has grown and the police force has also grown and the only FACT is that shootings are WAY DOWN. Not bad for a force of 35k officers in a city that swells to over 20 million on a weekday.
Also I must add that the rounds used include accidental discharges that of course are more prone to happen in the last 20 years due to moving from revolvers to semi auto(more likely to discharge) and from animal shootings. Pitbulls are often shot because thugs/drug dealers train them to attack cops and there is nothing else one can do.
You will also notice a spike from 1989-the late 1990's..this is due to the infamous crack epidemic and the resulting wars. Anyone who is old enough will remember it was complete chaos in those years in the inner city with gangs basically going total war on each other.
fun facts:
The NYPD shot several more people last year than in 2010, according to the department's annual firearms discharge report [pdf]. But 2010 marked an all-time low for police shootings, so the NYPD is framing the statistical spike in that context— 9 suspects were shot and killed, with an additional 19 injured by NYPD bullets in 2011, compared to 8 killed and 16 injured in 2010. There are a lot of stats in the report, but here's the NYPD explaining why you should admire their restraint:
In 2011, the number of firearms discharge incidents involving members of the New York City Police Department remained unchanged from the previous year: 92 total incidents. As was true last year, this is the smallest number of firearms discharges since the recording of police shootings in the City began. While it must be acknowledged that the most serious category of discharges—shootings involving adversarial conflict with a subject—increased by 9 percent over last year’s record low, it is also true that experiencing 36 adversarial-conflict incidents during a year makes for a remarkably infrequent rate.
In context, the rarity is even more apparent: in a city of 8.2 million people, from a Department of nearly 35,000 uniformed members who interacted with citizens in ap-proximately 23 million instances, 62 officers were involved in 36 incidents of intentional firearms discharges during an adversarial conflict, with 19 subjects injured and nine killed. This is an impressive record of firearms control.
To be sure, cops are a lot less trigger-happy compared to the early '70s, when the NYPD first started compiling stats for reports of this nature. In 1971, for instance, police shot 314 suspects. Unintentional discharges were also down last year from 2010, with 15 reported incidents of unintentional firearms discharge compared to 21 the previous year. However, incidents of cops opening fire because of an "animal attack" increased 20 percent over 2012, with 36 incidents. The NYPD hastens to explain they don't just shoot dogs in the street at the drop of a hat:
A total of 43 officers intentionally fired their weapons during these 36 incidents, up 13 percent from 2010. Additional officers were directly involved in attacks but did not fire. All of the animal attacks involved dogs. There were six officers injured in these incidents. Five officers were bitten by dogs and one officers suffered injuries from ballistic fragments during the attacks. Two civilians were also bitten by dogs in the course of these animal-attack incidents. These numbers do not encompass all dog attacks on officers or civilians, only dog-attack incidents involving intentional firearms discharges by police officers.
Of the 43 dogs involved, 12 were killed and 19 injured. Other fun facts: fewer plainclothes officers were involved in shootings than in past years. Previously, the number of plainclothes officers firing has exceeded the number of uniformed officers squeezing off rounds, despite the fact that there are far fewer plainclothes cops than their uniformed counterparts.
Also, stats suggest white officers may be a little more trigger-happy: 65 percent of the officers who fired their guns were white, which is "somewhat higher than the percentage of white officers" in the NYPD. According to the report, out of the nine suspects killed by police, five were armed with guns, two brandished knives, one was “using his vehicle as a weapon, injuring four civilians," and another had choked a detective.
Five officers were injured by gunfire, including two who were injured in a friendly fire shooting in Crown Heights that killed an innocent bystander sitting on her stoop. Her name was Denise Gay, a retired home health aide, and her murder sparked outrage from many who believed she was killed by an NYPD bullet—one of 73 shots fired at a single suspect that night. But the NYPD report notes her death with the caveat that "forensics were unable to determine definitively whose round caused her death."
