The Catalonia separatists aren't even hiding their end game. They want a socialist feminist state.

"My name is Anna Gabriel. I'm a slut, a traitor; I'm bitter and I need get laid, because I want a free, socialist, and feminist Catalonia"...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl...744128001/

Women like this are insane. Why are they allowed to have any voice in political matters? Where are the Catalonian men? The only reason these crazy leftist feminist women have any platform for their garbage is because men allow it. SMDH.

I can definitely see where she probably feels bitter and needs to get laid.



Even the photographer's expression says "would not bang".

Every national independence movement in the last 100 years has been driven by marxists.

I have been repeatedly making this very point in another related thread here but got quite a bit of flak for it. Now here you have it guys, right out in the open and it's probably even worse than I had originally feared. An actual 'feminist state' with feminism as one of its main mandates?





Fortunately those Marxist bitches will not succeed. There have been massive pro-nationalist demonstrations all across Spain today, even in Barcelona and other parts of Cataluñia. A bunch of companies and banks are threatening to leave already and if Pudjemenot goes ahead with it tomorrow then Rajoy is going to pull the nuclear option and rescind Cataluña's autonomy status. I actually hope he does it, those fuckers need a swift kick into the ass to bring them back to reality.

BTW, regarding that photo. This is actually how a large percentage of Catalonian woman looks like (i.e. one third plus minus) but what's even worse is their shitty and bossy attitude. I've been in Cataluñia three times and I'll be damned if I ever go back voluntarily.

Quote: (10-08-2017 03:03 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Every national independence movement in the last 100 years has been driven by marxists.

I can assure you that Brexit was in no way a Marxist endeavour.

I'm in Spain right now

Fuck the fucking (socialist) fucks

Several major banks have already pulled their headquarters out of Barcelona and others are indicating they will as well....follow the money and you'll see this succession referendum is going nowhere.

The Oct 1 "referendum" vote was a sham to begin with. The opposition didn't come out to vote because a lot of the ballot locations were only disclosed to the pro separatists and for fear of violence as central government forces were sent in to block the vote.

I have hope for Spain though. Just yesterday I saw a "Refugees welcome" sticker on a street sign and hand written over it was "Folla to madre, traisionero"

Translation "Fuck your mother traitor". Made my day (I regret not taking a picture)

No need to feel flakked upon, RP.

I think everyone respects your opinion. They just don't necessarily agree. It's hard to tell how a Catalonian secession would play out and to who's benefit it would be. It's my gut feeling and the gut feeling of others that it would help to destabilise the EU. That's all.

Personally I'd like to see an entire feminist state fall into grinding soviet style poverty. I'm not sure how much cash (((they))) would throw into the state to keep it afloat as a beacon of the wonders of progressivism but even then it would be nice to be able to point and laugh at the cat-lady nation and their perpetual failures at statehood.

I felt the same way about the Scottish referendum, welfare mendicant state that they are. America without LA could actually survive this century in some form. Meanwhile a Spain without Catalan would turn fairly hard right if I'm not mistaken.

Secession is absolutely going to be a necessary factor in traditionalists surviving this century, and the progressives seceding actually allows the traditionalists to hold the larger territories and handle the whole thing relatively bloodlessly, unlike what we'd see if a traditionalist region attempted to secede from a progressive nation.

I'm a fan of nationalism. That means you don't get to decide how it's implemented elsewhere.

Quote: (10-08-2017 03:03 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Every national independence movement in the last 100 years has been driven by marxists.

No, it has not. Talk to the Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians in 1991.

Here is a good talk on the subject:

https://mises.org/library/daniel-lacalle...-catalonia

That being said, the movements that have been not "driven by Marxists" were often a direct response to Marxists. In the case of the Baltic countries, it was non-Marxists wanting to throw off the Marxists in Russia.

Have you also heard of an American organization called the League of the South? They aren't Marxists either.

Quote: (10-08-2017 04:57 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2017 03:03 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Every national independence movement in the last 100 years has been driven by marxists.

No, it has not. Talk to the Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians in 1991.

Here is a good talk on the subject:

https://mises.org/library/daniel-lacalle...-catalonia

That being said, the movements that have been not "driven by Marxists" were often a direct response to Marxists. In the case of the Baltic countries, it was non-Marxists wanting to throw off the Marxists in Russia.

Have you also heard of an American organization called the League of the South? They aren't Marxists either.

You got that, then I got Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, South Africa and everything else.

Marxists do this, pretend to be nationalists then turn around and grab power.

Who cares who declares "independence." This is just politics, nothing more than attempts to control state power.

There are no good or bad guys, just winners and losers. What matters in politics is not that people fight, or how the battles are won, but instead how the peace is controlled.

It's obvious that in Catalonia the peace would be controlled by the most self-destructive people imaginable. The Spanish state knows this and even if they let them have their own state, the amount of jihadists and terror flowing out the city would necessitate a counter-invasion anyways. So the Spanish state will move in ASAP if they try any bullshit.

I'm looking forward to a good show, I hope I can see some more feminists get their asses kicked. Let the depedistalization continue until morale improves. This will serve as a good lesson to feminists in other countries why men rule.

It's not because some feminist communists are pro independence that all pro independence are feminist communists.

At the end of the day it comes down to this: who should decide if Catalunya should be independent or not?
To me the answer is: the people of Catalunya.

The Spanish government has made it impossible to have a proper referendum, so they can't complain about that.
For the people using the argument of a referendum about independence or indepence itself being against the law. Keep in mind it was exactly the same when the USA declared its independency (also many other countries).


More interesting is the absolute silence the EU (and most EU countries) showed after the violence. Only Slovenia and Belgium made some statement against the Spanish government (I mean something beyond generic we need more dialogue).

Let 'em have it.
It's not my problem.

Quote: (10-08-2017 05:25 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Who cares who declares "independence." This is just politics, nothing more than attempts to control state power.

There are no good or bad guys, just winners and losers. What matters in politics is not that people fight, or how the battles are won, but instead how the peace is controlled.

It's obvious that in Catalonia the peace would be controlled by the most self-destructive people imaginable. The Spanish state knows this and even if they let them have their own state, the amount of jihadists and terror flowing out the city would necessitate a counter-invasion anyways. So the Spanish state will move in ASAP if they try any bullshit.

I'm looking forward to a good show, I hope I can see some more feminists get their asses kicked. Let the depedistalization continue until morale improves. This will serve as a good lesson to feminists in other countries why men rule.

I would be all too happy to see Catalan turn into a sharia hellhole for all the world to see. I would give right wing Spaniards a year at most to move to Spain-proper and then seal the border.

When things got really bad I would say "deal's off" and roll in the tanks. All televised.

Western civilisation is well past the phase of "keeping the peace". We would all be well advised where convenient to let the muslims annex/genocide/enslave the left and then roll back in and drive the muslims and their slaves into the sea.

Quote: (10-08-2017 03:03 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Every national independence movement in the last 100 years has been driven by marxists.

As a Latvian who's country broke of Marxist Russia twice in 20th century I must heavily disagree with that statement and consider such bold statements made with little actual knowledge of history to be a sign of neglectful and pretentious attitude to history and rather insulting to people who have fought off tyranny with their blood and sweat in Latvia and many other countries that broke off Soviet Union or other occupant states.

In the same time I don't see significant similarities in Latvian and Catalonian independence movements. Latvians broke off because they wanted less Marxism, Catalonians seem to want more Marxism then the state they want to separate from. On the other hand there is the fact that Catalonians seem to pay more in taxes then every other region and that seems just to want to escape from such injustice. So the situation is complex and I will not make any bold statements knowing that I for sure know what stands behind this movement, or that there is just one force that stands behind it at all, because my self confidence is high enough to feel no need to pretend that I know everything about what is happening in past 100 years or any other time span.

A reminder that Catalan LGBT-loving authorities and hypocritical separatists, are so hateful of "Spanish"-speaking (Castellano hablantes) people, that they imported tons of immigrants from Africa, in order to teach them Catalan and nothing of Castellano (regular Cervantes Spanish).

That's why we can despise them so much, the Catalan independentists: they hate their Spanish brothers and French (of whom they have stolen the language) neighbors, but profess love of African migrants... go figure! They are delusional clowns.

Don't forget also that an independent Catalunyia would be under the partial control of communist-hellhole Venezuela (which finances the Left in Spain, Podemos especially) and therefore Iran (Iranian operatives abound in the Venezuelan government and intel forces, they would discreetly move in to Catalunya).

As to our respected Russian member here (Svoboda), well, Russians don't really care about Catalunya per se, they are just interested in a reciprocal diplomatic alliance, regarding Crimea...

Difference with Crimea being, 90% of the Crimeans really wanted to join the Russian Federation. On the other hand and contrarily, not even 50% of Catalan residents want to leave Spain.

Quote: (10-08-2017 08:09 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

...
Difference with Crimea being, 90% of the Crimeans really wanted to join the Russian Federation. On the other hand and contrarily, not even 50% of Catalan residents want to leave Spain.

If this were the case then they should call for a snap election wherein this issue was of course the major one.

If no election was forthcoming then they should absolutely resort to 'extreme' levels of protest.

Where was this majority when the ballot took place? Why were there no serious counter-protests?

The will to power trumps democracy. If the Catalan Right is too lazy and scared to stand up to the Catalan Left then they have submitted to the outcome.

Quote: (10-08-2017 08:28 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2017 08:09 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

...
Difference with Crimea being, 90% of the Crimeans really wanted to join the Russian Federation. On the other hand and contrarily, not even 50% of Catalan residents want to leave Spain.

If this were the case then they should call for a snap election wherein this issue was of course the major one.

If no election was forthcoming then they should absolutely resort to 'extreme' levels of protest.

Where was this majority when the ballot took place? Why were there no serious counter-protests?

The will to power trumps democracy. If the Catalan Right is too lazy and scared to stand up to the Catalan Left then they have submitted to the outcome.

Why were there no serious counter-protests?: well, we had 400.000 anti-separatist protesters manifesting today in Barcelona...



The referendum in Catalunya was a joke, people could print their ballots and vote numerous times as they pleased: a travesty of democracy.

https://elpais.com/ccaa/2017/10/08/catal...51999.html

Leading the loyalists, was one of my personal heroes, Mario Vargas Llosa:

"Prou! Recuperem el seny (“¡Basta! Recuperemos el sentido común”), la pancarta principal reunió al Nobel de Literatura Mario Vargas Llosa"


^one of the intellectual leaders of the global Spanish-speaking Right, great writer and Nobel prize (and expert at triggering the left), Vargas Llosa

Leonard, the "YES" vote got about 2.044.038 of a totally questioned total of 5.313.564. A very dubious voting, were you can vote in multiple places, or already filled ballot boxes present. The voting was a sham made by a very corrup political leader that use the independentism to avoid going to jail for their illegal bank accounts in Andorra.

Catalan leader Puigdemont said that they will declare independency on 10 October. Let's see what happens

Quote: (10-08-2017 01:33 PM)Long Haired Samson Wrote:  

The Catalonia separatists aren't even hiding their end game. They want a socialist feminist state.

"My name is Anna Gabriel. I'm a slut, a traitor; I'm bitter and I need get laid, because I want a free, socialist, and feminist Catalonia"...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl...744128001/

Women like this are insane. Why are they allowed to have any voice in political matters? Where are the Catalonian men? The only reason these crazy leftist feminist women have any platform for their garbage is because men allow it. SMDH.

Quote: (10-08-2017 08:33 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

...
Why were there no serious counter-protests?: well, we had 400.000 anti-separatist protesters manifesting today in Barcelona...
...

The referendum in Catalunya was a joke, people could print their ballots and vote numerous times as they pleased: a travesty of democracy.

https://elpais.com/ccaa/2017/10/08/catal...51999.html

Leading the loyalists, was one of my personal heroes, Mario Vargas Llosa:

"Prou! Recuperem el seny (“¡Basta! Recuperemos el sentido común”), la pancarta principal reunió al Nobel de Literatura Mario Vargas Llosa"


^one of the intellectual leaders of the global Spanish-speaking Right, great writer and Nobel prize (and expert at triggering the left), Vargas Llosa

^Excellent. Would have been better on ballot day, but it's a start. 400k is still not in the order of the secessionist marches, though, and I expect demographics have a lot to do with that.

If the Catalan government is indeed running crooked ballots then the people of Catalan should reinforce the Spanish federal police whenever the opportunity arises.

The ballot may have been a sham but to the world it was an entirely one sided affair. People living in those parts of the world where life is coming at them fast don't have the luxury of simply hoping that the federal apparatus will save them from concentrated left wing activism.

Quote: (10-08-2017 05:06 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2017 04:57 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2017 03:03 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Every national independence movement in the last 100 years has been driven by marxists.

No, it has not. Talk to the Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians in 1991.

Here is a good talk on the subject:

https://mises.org/library/daniel-lacalle...-catalonia

That being said, the movements that have been not "driven by Marxists" were often a direct response to Marxists. In the case of the Baltic countries, it was non-Marxists wanting to throw off the Marxists in Russia.

Have you also heard of an American organization called the League of the South? They aren't Marxists either.

You got that, then I got Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, South Africa and everything else.

Marxists do this, pretend to be nationalists then turn around and grab power.

They're really doing a piss poor job of pretending then.

You think the Catalans could've gotten Moroccan illegals to vote in this referendum?

Quote: (10-08-2017 08:53 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Leonard, the "YES" vote got about 2.044.038 of a totally questioned total of 5.313.564. A very dubious voting, were you can vote in multiple places, or already filled ballot boxes present. The voting was a sham made by a very corrup political leader that use the independentism to avoid going to jail for their illegal bank accounts in Andorra.

It was very dubious indeed. On the morning of the vote, the separatists announced their ‘universal census’, which allowed one to vote wherever one pleased. This was quickly taken down by the Civil Guards, leading to the manual recording of votes ― and I needn’t explain why such disorder would be conducive towards an effectively indefensible result. Small towns were reporting vote counts above their entire population; a well-known example is Palol de Revardit, in Girona, where the turnout was 283.05 per cent. When confronted, the separatists argued these excess electors were merely neighbouring residents who feared ‘police repression’ in other towns. This, however, is nothing compared to the street-side voting, where no control whatsoever existed.

There also reports, as you say, of people voting multiple times and of boxes being pre-filled, as if anticipating the result. Many have filmed themselves voting multiple times, providing us with additional proof of the results’ worthlessness. All pretence of democratic validity was renounced with the abolition of the Sindicatura Electoral, ostensibly established to guard the illicit referendum’s transparency. Few have noted that the abolition of this organ (a) made any legal guarantees inconceivable and (b) stood in violation of the Law on the Referendum on Self-determination. The Generalitat may boast of the doubtlessly inflated ‘yes’ count and neglect to mention the doubtlessly inflated, yet insufficient, turnout, but it is clear that their greatest victory on 1 October was in the realm of publicity and their international depiction, especially in view of their temporary success at having l’Estat espanyol catalogued as some sort of autocratic, extra-European state.

Many here do not seem to have brought the legal question into consideration; they have assumed, it seems, that there is an irrevocable and absolute right to self-determination (and, consequently, to secession) that allows all bodies politic to be ceaselessly dismembered as the fickle crowd sees fit. This is an error. States naturally seek to protect their territorial integrity, and it is entirely legitimate for them to do so; no-one, after all, speaks ills of Finland for retaining the now-demilitarised Åland Islands, and though loyalties may vary, one finds many defending Serbia’s claim to Kosovo or Georgia’s to Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

If these settings are too exotic or sour, let us return to the Mediterranean. The United Kingdom and Spain have a long-standing dispute over Gibraltar; the former, despite vigorously defending its claim, does accept two limitations resulting from Spain’s right of first refusal: (a) Gibraltar cannot be a made a constituent country of the UK, like Wales or Scotland, and (b) it cannot be granted independence. Thus, even Westminster, which allowed the independence referendum in Scotland, accepts that international law recognises the aforementioned limitations to the right to self-determination of peoples.

If this were insufficient, one need only employ the words of the the Canadian Supreme Court, which, in its Reference re Secession of Quebec, wrote: ‘The various international documents that support the existence of a people’s right to self-determination also contain parallel statements supportive of the conclusion that the exercise of such a right must be sufficiently limited to prevent threats to an existing state’s territorial integrity or the stability of relations between sovereign states.’ Canada, of course, permitted two secession plebiscites; unlike Spain, it was born a confederation. But, the point stands: Spain’s constitutionally enshrined indivisibility is nothing exceptional; indeed, France (Article 89), Germany (Article 21), Italy (Article 5), Norway (Article 1), and Estonia (Article 2) have constitutions entrenching their borders and forms of government.

I think I’ve over-extended myself, but if anyone’s interested, I can write paragraphs upon paragraphs dismissing the notion of a historical Catalan identity based around separation from Spain. History ― the extension and configuration of the Spanish March, James I’s sayings, the fervently patriotic poetry of the Renaixença, the laurels of the Catalan volunteers in Morocco, Balmes, Verdaguer, &c ― makes the endeavour quite easy; the historiographic deformation of recent years, whilst perverse, is easily refutable. If my legal reasoning does not suffice, I can cite more opinions and more constitutions, including that of Switzerland.

Before anyone accuses me of being a Castilian oppressor, I’ll say one thing: I am Basque with some PNV-voting relatives. I should add that I don’t care for liberal constitutions or the tawdry spectacle of democracy. My preferred system is more atavistic, for Hispanicity is more suited to fueros than Jacobinism.