I was out for a drink tonight with a girl I met online. First time we met was a coffee date, this was our second meet. She was the hottest girl I've pulled in about the last couple of years, definitely a class above my usual fare. She's Bulgarian, I could see she was good looking the first time we met but tonight she was dressed to impress.

First bar I order the drinks, we grab a seat, drink slowly and talk for a while, she's a little cold at first but starts to warm up. We then move onto the next bar and the only area where we could get a seat it's table service, a serving girl brings our drinks but this chick makes no move to pay. To avoid an awkward moment I pay for the drinks, I'm not too happy but I figure it's not worth making a fuss at this point.

We leave this bar and I stop and kiss her en route to the next. This third bar is busier with loud music and a good atmosphere, I force my way to the bar and buy 2 drinks. I don't mind so much as the last time because I recognise that it's easier for me to navigate the crowd but I tell myself that I'm not buying her another drink. Other than the issue with the drinks the night is going well.

It's busy, I slip my arm under her jacket and around her waist pulling her to me, she's into it and she's touching my chest and arm with both hands. We stay like this for a while, by now my other hand is moving between her waist and ass and I'm shooting for the SNL.

She lives 20-30 mins from the city centre and she mentions that her last train is at midnight. I tell her she can stay at mine if she wants to stay out, and she asks if I'll drive her home in the morning. Agreed. She is now being very flirtatious and touchy. I have no doubt it's on. I'm feeling pretty pleased with myself at this point.

We grab a table and now we're finishing our drinks. We talk about what to do next, she wants to have one more in here. At this point what do you do?

It's around 11:45pm and the bar is open till 1am. Do you buy her another drink or two and take her home, or do you let her know it's her turn to get to the bar?

I take option 2. She blows up at me as if I'm a cheapskate, maybe she felt shamed, I don't know. However I stand my ground, she grabs her bag and storms off and I let her walk. Fuck it.

Buying her another drink would have meant swallowing my pride which I wasn't prepared to do so I'm actually not too unhappy, however I missed out on a quality notch for the sake of a couple of drinks.

Throughout the night the only real deviation I made from my normal behaviour is that when the serving girl brought the second round of drinks I would normally have indicated that it was her round.

I'd like to know how you guys would have handled it, both when the bill was presented for the second drink and when it was time to get a fourth drink?

Odd thread title but.. the way you say 'stand my ground' rings an alarm bell in my head. You mean you sternly and seriously said she needs to get the next drink?

Or you casually said in a teasing way said; "ok we can stay but you have to get the next round", and then: "or we go back to mine for a drink there" (that's option three by the way).

I think you probably went with the first option and thats why she went crazy. However the girl sounds so crazy, she probably would have done that anyway at a later time anyway.

Without going into a word by word account of what was said, she brought up again that I would drive her home in the morning and I playfully told her to never mind that because it was time she bought me a drink. There was no stern and serious vibe.

The way she blew up was a complete over reaction which took me aback. When I say I stood my ground I meant that I refused to acknowledge there was anything wrong with me asking her to go to the bar, however it was over in a flash, maybe "stood my ground" is a poor choice of words, doesn't really matter.

Maybe there was a bit of a cultural/language barrier, but I think you're probably correct in that she was likely crazy and would have reacted badly however/whenever I brought the matter up.

I had already mentioned option 3, she wanted to stay for another drink.

Here's what I do:

Anytime I meet a girl for drinks, I say "First rounds on me" with a smile, pay for both drinks. Obviously this implies that the next round either we go dutch or she pays for the drinks. I always buy a girl the first drink and then she can get her own the rest of the night.

Also, I prefer sticking to one venue. I always choose a little dive a block from my house and meet women there. After a couple of hours when it's on, I suggest we go play Wii Tennis and we walk back to my place. End of story.

EDIT: To answer your original question, if I were in your shoes, I'd have bought the damn drinks. But if you do the above, you won't be in that situation in the first place.

Loosing out on the nights lay for the price of a round of drinks.....


Stoopid.

I would have paid for the drinks once she agreed to stay at your place. At that point (if it is truly on as you say it was), I would have been just trying not to fuck up. The above suggestion of "first round is on me" is something that I also employ. It tends to work for me as well.

Which country is this?

When reading through I thought this was going to be you buying drinks and her not showing any real interest, but she was touching you, kissing you and agreed to go home with you.

What I don't understand is why you decided that the final drink before you go home and bang the hell out of this girl was going to be your last stand at the Alamo.

I personally think the whole thing about not paying for drinks/food/whatever is vastly overblown, but if that's your way of doing things then either you make it clear from the beginning - through words or actions - that you require her to pay for her drinks, or you continue with what you've been doing all night. Deciding that she must pay for the final round after an entire evening was serving no purpose.

You were enjoying life, spending your time with an enthusiastic hot piece of ass who wanted to go home with you. These experiences are never guaranteed in life, and should be seized when they appear. That you're having to spend some cash should be the furthest thing from your mind.

Also something worth mentioning is that this was a foreign girl, not a regular American chick, so the mentality could be a little different. Not all cultures have the "egalitarian" culture the US does.

Thanks for the replies gents.

This was in the UK.

I have conflicting thoughts on this today. I have never actually come across a girl before who refused to buy a drink and I found it a bit galling. If it's a cultural thing and common in the EE then fine, but she's in my country not the other way around.

Whilst I was naturally disappointed to be waking up alone I'm ok with how it went down. Shit happens, and there's always another girl around the corner. Next time I broach the subject earlier and leave myself time to deal with the fall out. Bear in mind that when I asked her to get to the bar I actually expected her to go, not get hysterical about it.

I also think the whole paying for food/drinks thing is overblown but it is an issue, clearly more so in some cases than others. This is not Thailand, this chick works and is able to support herself and buy designer clothes so it's common courtesy to buy the odd round.

Chalk it up to the game. I have another date lined up for later.

Quote: (10-15-2016 03:41 AM)Lagavulin Wrote:  

but she's in my country not the other way around.

I'm glad you aren't beating yourself up over this, but I think you're missing the forest through the trees.

You failed to learn the lesson you should have.

Sometimes it's ok to "break the rules". Yes, in GENERAL you shouldn't be buying women shit, or at least, she should be giving equal value compared to what you're giving her. You NEVER want to make sex or her company transactional if you can help it. Many members here will disagree with me on this point, but I digress.

The bottom line is sometimes you break the rules. There is a time and place for everything in life, and this goes doubly so for game. In fact, I'd argue that there are even rare occasions where acting "beta" is the correct path. Life is not a movie. You are not Don Draper or James Bond. The script is not always written in such a way where playing the bad boy alpha who makes everyone come to him works. Sometimes you have to bend a little.

You let your ego get in the way of going further with this girl. She wasn't upset because you asked her to buy the drinks, she was upset that you made such a big deal out of such an insignificant matter. I would understand if you just met her and this was the first round---sure, who want's to be someone elses meal ticket? But the reality is you set the frame in the beginning of buying drinks, then at the end of the night, right before the finale you want to change it up.

I'm willing to bet she started out befuddled, and then when she realized you were going to make a big deal out of it she was offended. Kind of like how when someone in a group says something awkward, but the effects are not noticeable until someone calls out the fact that it's awkward. You voiced something that shouldn't have been said, and at the wrong time.

There is NOTHING wrong with splitting the check on a date in the West. But when you establish that YOU will be buying the drinks, then change it up at the end with no reasonable explanation, then fail to socially recognize the faux pas you made, THAT'S when the crash and burn happened.

If you don't take away the lesson I outlined above from this, you're going to keep making the same stupid mistake.

In the future, just use the technique I mentioned earlier and save yourself the hassle.

Quote: (10-15-2016 04:23 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Quote: (10-15-2016 03:41 AM)Lagavulin Wrote:  

but she's in my country not the other way around.

Don't read too much into that - what I could have made clearer is that she's being living in the UK for several years and presumably knows how society works in general. I.e. when you go out with a guy you buy a drink now and again.

Quote: (10-15-2016 04:34 AM)John_Galt Wrote:  

I'm glad you aren't beating yourself up over this, but I think you're missing the forest through the trees.

You failed to learn the lesson you should have.

Sometimes it's ok to "break the rules". Yes, in GENERAL you shouldn't be buying women shit, or at least, she should be giving equal value compared to what you're giving her. You NEVER want to make sex or her company transactional if you can help it. Many members here will disagree with me on this point, but I digress.

The bottom line is sometimes you break the rules. There is a time and place for everything in life, and this goes doubly so for game. In fact, I'd argue that there are even rare occasions where acting "beta" is the correct path. Life is not a movie. You are not Don Draper or James Bond. The script is not always written in such a way where playing the bad boy alpha who makes everyone come to him works. Sometimes you have to bend a little.

You let your ego get in the way of going further with this girl. She wasn't upset because you asked her to buy the drinks, she was upset that you made such a big deal out of such an insignificant matter. I would understand if you just met her and this was the first round---sure, who want's to be someone elses meal ticket? But the reality is you set the frame in the beginning of buying drinks, then at the end of the night, right before the finale you want to change it up.

I'm willing to bet she started out befuddled, and then when she realized you were going to make a big deal out of it she was offended. Kind of like how when someone in a group says something awkward, but the effects are not noticeable until someone calls out the fact that it's awkward. You voiced something that shouldn't have been said, and at the wrong time.

There is NOTHING wrong with splitting the check on a date in the West. But when you establish that YOU will be buying the drinks, then change it up at the end with no reasonable explanation, then fail to socially recognize the faux pas you made, THAT'S when the crash and burn happened.

If you don't take away the lesson I outlined above from this, you're going to keep making the same stupid mistake.

In the future, just use the technique I mentioned earlier and save yourself the hassle.

You make some good points JG.

I acknowledge that I could have handled it better but I made a conscious decision at the time and I'm still cool with it.

Why do you guys still take women to the bar? every single chick demands that you take her to bars because of that and pay for her.
Take her to the park and sit on the bench like in the old times.

Quote: (10-15-2016 06:04 AM)dsalsa Wrote:  

Why do you guys still take women to the bar? every single chick demands that you take her to bars because of that and pay for her.
Take her to the park and sit on the bench like in the old times.

Because it's mid October in the UK and it was raining. Plus going to a bar is more likely to lead to a SNL than a visit to the park.

Quote: (10-14-2016 09:11 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Loosing out on the nights lay for the price of a round of drinks.....


Stoopid.

She already COMMITTED to staying at your place and you lose out on that because of a 10€ cocktail or some shit. You gotta be fucking kidding me!

to add insult to injury shes Bulgarian... From what Ive heard those girls are more traditional. Jesus christ man.

Quote: (10-15-2016 12:37 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

When reading through I thought this was going to be you buying drinks and her not showing any real interest, but she was touching you, kissing you and agreed to go home with you.

What I don't understand is why you decided that the final drink before you go home and bang the hell out of this girl was going to be your last stand at the Alamo.

I personally think the whole thing about not paying for drinks/food/whatever is vastly overblown, but if that's your way of doing things then either you make it clear from the beginning - through words or actions - that you require her to pay for her drinks, or you continue with what you've been doing all night. Deciding that she must pay for the final round after an entire evening was serving no purpose.

You were enjoying life, spending your time with an enthusiastic hot piece of ass who wanted to go home with you. These experiences are never guaranteed in life, and should be seized when they appear. That you're having to spend some cash should be the furthest thing from your mind.

THIS!

I'm a real cheapskate sometimes with drinks. Once I had a 20 y.o latina who we went out and she didn't buy drinks at all. I was about to get pissed, but decided to just roll with it and see how it goes since these drinks were costing me $4-5 for both of us each round. I eventually bang her that night. From then on, she'd come over with food, clothes(Shirt here and there from Pull&bear), gifts etc totalling well what I spent over drinks when we went out.

Never know how the mentality of a girl will change once she get's the Vitamin D. Especially after getting KINO and a green light at a sleepover, it's not the time to play


-CD

Quote: (10-14-2016 07:36 PM)Lagavulin Wrote:  

She was the hottest girl I've pulled in about the last couple of years, definitely a class above my usual fare.

A couple of things:

If the girl is busted, then she must pay her own way.

This chick was hot, gave you clear indications that she was into you and agreed to stay at your place for the night.

Alcohol usually removes all inhibitions in a woman. When she agreed to stay with you for the night, your chance of banging her was 90%. If she didn't spread for you, she faced the reality of getting kicked out of your place in the middle of the night.

I think the checklist/commandments mentality has done a lot of damage in the 'scene'. There seems to be this misconception that women are some sort of alcoholics who gravitate around men hoping for free drinks. That's missing the point. What they like about men buying them drinks is that it makes them feel valued and desired. Stop obsessing about little things. I wouldn't be surprised if some people had an actual Excel to record this shit. 'OK, so I bought you two drinks. Now you have to buy me a shirt'.

Quote: (10-15-2016 11:25 AM)The Stronger Sex Wrote:  

I wouldn't be surprised if some people had an actual Excel to record this shit. 'OK, so I bought you two drinks. Now you have to buy me a shirt'.

Yes. The aspie behavior on this board is off the charts sometimes.

Values 4 quid over a Bulgarian notch.

A girl from Bulgaria (Eastern Europe) where the man typically looks after the women with money. Missing out on a bang for the sake of £15 (a hot sounding one at that). Could make £15 on two hours on the minimum wage.

Quote: (10-15-2016 11:43 AM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  

Quote: (10-15-2016 11:25 AM)The Stronger Sex Wrote:  

I wouldn't be surprised if some people had an actual Excel to record this shit. 'OK, so I bought you two drinks. Now you have to buy me a shirt'.

Yes. The aspie behavior on this board is off the charts sometimes.

Values 4 quid over a Bulgarian notch.

Lol it was hardly aspie behaviour mate.

Some of you guys are missing the point. It wasn't about the drink, or the cost of the drink, I can afford to treat a girl to a nice night out if I like her and I want to do something for her. It was about the principle of her flat out refusing to buy a drink.

I'm past counting notches and bending over backwards to please women or get them into bed. I'm on the lookout for a LTR as I'm hitting the stage where I feel I would like to settle down, however I'll happily play the field until then. I had already decided she wasn't LTR material.

Her refusal to buy a drink grated on me, more so as the night wore on. I chose not to let it slide (again I will highlight that her reaction was unexpected and over the top). What if I buy her a drink and she then wants to hit a club? I drew my line in the sand and she walked, that says more about her than it does about me I reckon.

We all have different lengths that we'll go to in order to get a notch, there was even a thread about having plastic surgery recently in order to make yourself more attractive to women. The point is we all have our own limits over what lengths we'll go to and what kind of behaviour we'll accept. Maybe on another night I bite the bullet and go with it, a couple of years ago I would have, but last night I decided not to play her game and it backfired. Fuck it, it's only a notch. I'm comfortable with it.

With true EE women (been to Moscow and dated many EE women) when you date them you pay to prove your are not "Cheap" as in you are a man who provides.

Once you convert her to your exclusive on lock (I did not say married because that only matters if you want kids and to leave them an honorably legacy) you basically own her and she is your live in chef, maid, seamstress and bed buddy.

You are the king of your castle and she the queen you can not wait to get home to.

Why fuck this up over the price of a few drinks and occasional romantic dinner.

NOTE: When you do put her in your kitchen and home if she does not do the above culturally expected EE women's work then you Dump her westernized slut arse and find one who conforms to the cultural norms.

I actually like to take them to the market to buy the ingredients they will prepare for me and I always pick the best most flavorful ingredients as I am flavor challenged and must have spice and flavor in my life.

I then watch if and how she economizes in the process and her body language towards other men when she is with me doing something as sensual as food and wine shopping.

Any RED FLAGS and it is a few home cooked meals for ROI then NEXT.

Quote: (10-14-2016 07:36 PM)Lagavulin Wrote:  

She was the hottest girl I've pulled in about the last couple of years, definitely a class above my usual fare. She's Bulgarian, I could see she was good looking the first time we met but tonight she was dressed to impress.

Well I'm glad you are cool with not getting her home... BUT, you did ask in this
thread, so I'll give my 2 centavos.

2nd date... she was dressed up for you... she agreed to come back to your place..
and then? You cock-blocked yourself! Providing LMR, that ultimately made her up
and leave.

Quote: (10-14-2016 07:36 PM)Lagavulin Wrote:  

I'm on the lookout for a LTR

Should that fact alone not have earned her a longer bit of leash? To see if
she is gonna be a keeper, or just another notch?

If LTR was truly on your mind... I feel you could have "waited to see."

Good discussion, thanks for posting.

Quote: (10-15-2016 11:43 AM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  

Quote: (10-15-2016 11:25 AM)The Stronger Sex Wrote:  

I wouldn't be surprised if some people had an actual Excel to record this shit. 'OK, so I bought you two drinks. Now you have to buy me a shirt'.

Yes. The aspie behavior on this board is off the charts sometimes.

Values 4 quid over a Bulgarian notch.

Some of the behavior and rationalization on the forum baffles me.

Person:

Quote:Quote:

You paid for drinks/appetizer? You're such a beta chump! Cuck!!!

Same person in a foreign thread:

Quote:Quote:

I gave her [3-10 USD in local currency] for cab money. Girls in [foreign 3rd world country] are poor and cannot afford a way home!