[Samseau]

(10-24-2011 05:12 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 05:01 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

My suspicions that Jack is a female is getting stronger.

I don't think so. See, he's dated hundreds of Japanese women.

http://jackdserrano.hubpages.com/hub/Und...nese-Women

He even has a $3 e-book!

http://www.datingskillsreview.com/meet-more-women/

Jack is a strange guy. Telling everyone not to use PUA tactics and selling books that are indistinguishable from PUA books.

[Jack D. Serrano]

(10-24-2011 10:46 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

Quote:

The super-nice guy and the PUA are two side of the same coin. They are both manipulating women in order to get sex.

When I was younger and naive I wasn't nice because I was trying to manipulate women to sleep with them. It was because I was a genuinely good guy who wanted to meet a good girl.

Agreed.
I think this is true of most guys, actually.
Most are genuinely good guys who want to meet a good girl.

Sounds like this is a communication error between us.
You can blame it on me if you like.
We're all here to have fun and learn.
Sometimes the same words mean different things to different people.

When I say the super-nice guy and the PUA, I am talking about two different types of guys who use different tactics in order to persuade women to like them. I'm not talking about a one or the other situation. Most guys are neither.

By "super-nice guy" I am talking about the guy who uses being nice in order to try to convince girls to like him. Buying her presents, bringing her flowers, trying to impress her with fancy dates, usually when she hasn't done much in return for him and she usually hasn't brought anything to the table that will help make him happy other than her looks and the prospect of sex. It becomes pretty obvious when you see how this kind of guy acts around other guys and girls he isn't attracted to. This is the guy who feels desperate for companionship but doesn't know how to go about dating except for trying to woo the girl with niceties.

I think we've all met the super-nice guy (again, talking about a small number of guys, as defined above) who says he wants nothing more than to meet a great girl. Then watch him finally get sex from a girl who actually treats him like dirt, but because the guy is too scared to lose his sex supply, he won't drop her. Then talk to the guy later, after he has long since been out of that relationship and ask why he was with her. In hindsight it's obvious even to him, he was with her for sex, even if he didn't want to admit it to himself then.

I'm not telling guys it's morally wrong if sex is your goal with a woman. It's all good. Each man has his own choices to make in life. But I do think it will cause a lot of stress for a guy when he is dishonest with himself about his intentions with women and the real reasons for his actions.

(10-24-2011 10:46 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

There are plenty of nice guys uninterested in game that for any number of reasons don't pursue sex like many of us do here. Maybe they're content with monogamy or don't know anything different. Maybe they're in a social circle with a mix of girls and guys who are all legitimate friends.

Quote:

Yeah, girls love to get together and laugh at all the dumb shit guys to just to get in their pants.

Quote:

Fact is, girls and their girlfriends will shred apart anything a guy does, no matter who he is or what he says - IF SHE DOESN'T LIKE HIM.

Not all of the blue pill guys out there are beta orbiters whose end goal is sex. [/quote]

Not really sure what you're talking about with the blue pill, beta orbiter stuff.

I agree with the part of what you said that I understood.

There are lots of nice, well-adjusted guys with really great girls. Guys who do everything against what the PUA gurus teach and live their lives with a really great woman who they are really into, who is really into them. Guys who never think about this strange alpha/beta paradigm that seems to be so popular. They simply live their lives, as men, without concern about whether they are better or worse than other guys, enjoy their time with women who make them happy, accepting the fact that some girls like them, some girls don't. Talk to lots of girls and you'll find the kind of girl who matches what you want.

The super-nice guy who uses being nice as a manipulation tactic isn't a large number of guys. But, if guys on here read this, and recognize it in themselves, then maybe it was helpful to point it out.

I don't doubt their or your intentions. Most guys simply want to live a happy, honest life, maybe with one girl, maybe with many. If they want something else, that's all cool too. It's up to each person.

(10-24-2011 10:46 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

Many girls often make false assumptions and act on their cruel, innate nature... the end result: Guys like Roosh, myself, or anyone else who turned to game because they finished last as the nice guy (not just regarding sex with women). Girls will tear apart anyone for amusement, even if they like them. Why? Because they don't know how to keep their damn mouths shut. Gossip reigns supreme.

Quote:

Girls rip guys apart because those guys keep going after girls who don't like them, ignoring all the (obvious) signals that she isn't interested.

(10-24-2011 10:46 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

Until I was about 25, none of those signals were obvious. Have you forgotten what it's like being a young man? Personally, I think you might be a bit touch. I understand you think you're on to some "higher quality game" plateau but all you're really doing here is alienating everyone.

Valid point.
I can see how it looks this way.

About you not realizing those signals until about 25 -
I'm willing to bet, that as you got more first-hand experience, your awareness of women, yourself, your relationships all grew, correct?

I think this is true for most anyone who goes out and gets a lot more experience with something, your awareness grows.

My intent with posting on this thread is to point out to guys that they have other options besides - just being the nice guy who finishes last or the woman-hating misogynist who is the male equivalent of a feminist/femi-nazi.

You probably don't need to hear that message, lots of guys don't. But some guys do need to know that they have options. I've seen a lot of guys get sucked down some dark, deep (not wet) holes because they get so caught up in the whole game/alpha/beta thing.

[_DC_]

(10-19-2011 12:24 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

Gotta say, Jack speaks the truth. It's refreshing to hear someone else step up and say it. I've been saying similar shit for a couple years now. How you game women will determine the women you pick up. So if you go out thinking women are all evil, conniving bitches, who need to be manipulated into bed, then the only women you're going to attract will be evil, conniving bitches who want to be manipulated into bed.

But don't take my word for it, social psychology has demonstrated this in studies time and time again. It's called the "Assortment Effect" and it's been established for decades. (The PUA industry is actually completely clueless on the actual science of attraction, but I'll save that rant for another day.) But the point is that you're always screening for a certain type of woman, no matter what you do. If all the women you attract are backstabbing bitches, then I hate to say the only thing they all have in common is you. Harsh truth.

I'm the opposite of you. I've become less and less misogynistic the more women I've banged. And I've banged a shitload of them at this point. And the quality of women I've been with keeps improving: more loyal, more beautiful, more fun, higher self esteem, less bullshit, less drama. Threads like this really kill me to read now, whereas five years ago I was saying the same shit. Fix your attitude. It's not women who suck. People suck. It's your job to find the good ones, not sit and complain about the bad ones. There are shitty men out there just as there are shitty women. But there are also some awesome people out there. And there are some awesome women too. Adjust your game to find the awesome women. They're out there. And I'll give you a hint: they're rarely drunk in a night club on a Friday night.

Guess I'll disagree with the majority myself, and agree with you.

I've banged my fair share of attractive girls, almost exclusively ONS or FWB. I never really learned how to be genuinely interested in a women and show candid affection. A lot of it is probably my natural personality, but it's like the learned behavior of withholding and being aloof that seemed to help me with all of my ONS bangs also prevented me from having any satisfying emotional experiences. The "paradox" perhaps.

I was with one girl for several months that was no doubt a high quality girl. Very beautiful and gave me zero shit. She was chill, friendly, and smart. A lot of the static and problems that people talk about on here, vindication, craziness, and anger, she displayed none. She ended the relationship because she didn't feel that I truly cared for her, didn't feel like I thought she was special, etc. Call it whatever you want (the majority would say this was bullshit), but with lots of reflection on my own behavior, and given the honesty of the girl, it seemed completely true.

Nobody on this forum will be able to convince me that honest, loyal, and quality girls simply do not exist. I completely agree they are rare. In no way am I looking to settle down or even actively looking for a LTR, but I feel like you can really miss out on a quality experience that is more than just sex if you keep your cellar doors closed by feeling that girls are lying manipulative sex toys and not allow a shred of emotional availability.

*open flame door

[Docter]

Same exact shit just recently happened to me DC, totally agree.

As a community we're in the business of truth and it is hugely ignorant to say that absolutely every female on the planet is a whore.

[Jack D. Serrano]

There is quite a bit of value in DC's post for guys that are looking.
Thank you for sharing your story too.

(10-25-2011 01:10 AM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I never really learned how to be genuinely interested in a women and show candid affection. ... the learned behavior of withholding and being aloof.

Lots of guys do everything right with girls they don't care about, then when it comes to girls they actually are attracted to they start messing things up.

Guys can learn a lot from DC's simple comments above.

(10-25-2011 01:10 AM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I was with one girl for several months that was no doubt a high quality girl. Very beautiful and gave me zero shit. She was chill, friendly, and smart. A lot of the static and problems that people talk about on here, vindication, craziness, and anger, she displayed none. She ended the relationship because she didn't feel that I truly cared for her, didn't feel like I thought she was special, etc. Call it whatever you want (the majority would say this was bullshit), but with lots of reflection on my own behavior, and given the honesty of the girl, it seemed completely true.

Most guys think it is a bad thing if a girl leaves them.
There is a lot to be said about the guy who is totally fine with letting high quality girls go. Few things are more attractive to beautiful woman than a guy whose life doesn't revolve around trying to get with her.

I've had some very long dating relationships (read: Not exclusive. I am dating other women) with very high quality girls where early on, when they ask me to be her BF I say: "I can't be your boyfriend. Is that okay with you?" The conversation doesn't continue until she says either yes or no to that question. This is my own preference, but I prefer interactions where the woman takes full responsibility for her own actions. No dancing, no tip-toeing around the obvious. If that deal is not okay with her, I politely thank her for the fun times and I LEAVE. Some women aren't okay with it. That's totally cool. She's a big girl, she can make up her own mind. But guys might be surprised at how many women are refreshed by the honesty and are totally fine with it, and their quality level. These are usually women who bring a lot more to the table than just looks and good sex but that's not a requirement.

[Gmac]

(10-25-2011 01:20 AM)Docter Wrote:  

Same exact shit just recently happened to me DC, totally agree.

As a community we're in the business of truth and it is hugely ignorant to say that absolutely every female on the planet is a whore.

Every woman is a whore who just may not have had the opportunity to prove it.

[Samseau]

(10-25-2011 08:00 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

(10-25-2011 01:20 AM)Docter Wrote:  

Same exact shit just recently happened to me DC, totally agree.

As a community we're in the business of truth and it is hugely ignorant to say that absolutely every female on the planet is a whore.

Every woman is a whore who just may not have had the opportunity to prove it.

Right on. Just as every man is a thief who may or may not have the opprotunity to prove it. For example, take away a man's money, food, and home, and I guarentee he will steal and beg to survive.

The reason I don't consider myself a misogynist is because I don't blame women for their whorist behavior. If I was a women in their circumstances, I'd probably act the same way.

This is human nature, and it doesn't change just because of "charecter".

[Giovonny]

I don't hate women because they are whores. I love them because they are whores!

Don't hate the playette, hate the game!

[BortimusPrime]

So did anyone else automatically assume "Understanding Japanese Women" involved being an efficient frotteur on a crowded maglev train?

[ccurtis189]

(10-15-2011 05:36 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

It's indeed a sad fact of life. The days were women used to sit at home and care for the kids and fully support their man, are almost over. Instead they work and act slutty.

Doesn't sound like a bad thing if you ask me.

[Deluge]

(11-02-2011 11:57 PM)ccurtis189 Wrote:  

(10-15-2011 05:36 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

It's indeed a sad fact of life. The days were women used to sit at home and care for the kids and fully support their man, are almost over. Instead they work and act slutty.

Doesn't sound like a bad thing if you ask me.

Word. If a guy is never planning on marrying, he should be glad that feminism has made girls sluttier, and shout the praises of "raunch culture" from the rooftops.

[ccurtis189]

I thought one of the core aspects of game was accepting that not every woman is going to sleep with you. So, if you haven't even slept with 1% of the woman out there, how can you sit there and judge every single woman? Why not just accept that they want the same thing that you do, and think about how if you were a woman, if you were given opportunities such as sex with a desirable man, why would you turn that down?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I've written about this before, but I really hate this whole "nice guys are nice just to get girls" argument. It's a very bad rationalization, and one that girls use to justify flings with guys who treat them like shit ("they're all jerks anyway, but he who treats me like shit is at least honest, so...").

Sure, an extremely low, unbalanced part of the whole spectrum of nice guys are manipulative and hope to "buy" women with kindness. But the majority are not nice because it's their tool to deceive women into sleeping with them, but just because they're nice. It's been taught to them since birth, from every parental advice to books to TV and romantic comedies and finally women's own advice (we want kind, generous men, blah blah blah). They don't know any other way. Ironically, a huge majority of them would benefit from becoming more manipulative and looking primarily after their own interests.

[Anon-A-Moose]

Most modern women are cunts. Unfortunate but true. The few "good" ones are either taken or there's a reason why they're not (read: ugly, nine kids, etc)

[Menace]

There are no "good" girls. Even girls that may be stereotypically considered good, like innocent Asian girls without many bangs are not good. I know of a girl who has had only one prior sex partner (believable) who's gone out with a beta guy to movies and to dinner and has only held hands, while she's banging another dude. How do I know? I'm the guy she's banging. I don't judge her for it because that's just the nature of things.

[Teedub]

I know what you mean. It certainly helps with approach anxiety too, to have a feeling of superiority. I can name on one hand the amount of genuinely decent and attractive girls who I would actually consider stopping game for. Of course, they're taken and its irrelevant but my point is that a few decades ago, I would have been able to name many more than fucking 3 or 4!