[blurb]

Quote:

A girl being sexually wild, crazy, open and adventurous has NOTHING to do with whether she is loyal/disloyal, honest/dishonest, nice/bitches.

Lots of nice girls are not sexual.
Lots of nice girls are sexual.

Do you understand how ludicrous your post is? Who the f*** would marry a slut? There's a strong correlation between a woman having a higher number count and the higher likelihood of divorce.

You're just giving women an excuse to ride the cock carousel and trying get rid of supposed slut-shaming double standard. I'd never tell a guy to marry a woman who'd been "sexually adventurous."

Quote:

You're posting this on a forum about banging tons of chicks and not committing to them. It's not just the women. It's the society as a whole.

Women were the ones that chose this alpha-chasing society. Guys are forced to choose between learning Game and being a near-celibate beta. Women are the ones that are running away from commitment.

Quote:

The idea that a whole society of women can change their behavior in a vacuum is nuts. Their behavior is affected by ours and vice-versa.

We're actually a minority of men. The rest are betas.

Quote:

I mean, where do you think the pick up community came from?

Adapt or die. Simple evolution. An organsim either adapts to its environment or dies off.

Life is not fair. The PUA/Game was a response to women's changing sexual attitudes. So, women were the ones that actually caused the birth of the PUA/Game community.

[Entropy4]

Your choice between "learning game" and being "near-celibate" is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of guys (in fact, the majority of the population) who do not learn game, and who are not celibate. You realize that 1/3 of the guys in the PUA community are virgins right? And that 50% of them have been with 2 or less women. The average non-PUA has been with 11 women in his life.

This whole "learning game" thing is a male support group in disguise. It's like alcoholics anonymous for guys with emotional problems. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

As for "women are running away from commitment," I'd point out once again that both sexes are running away from commitment. There are entire books written on the changes happening in men right now in society. We're becoming just as fickle and selfish. I encourage you to learn about it, because this shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. If it were only women running away from commitment, then every PUA coach would have a wife and a mortgage instead of 100 notches.

[soup]

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

Your choice between "learning game" and being "near-celibate" is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of guys (in fact, the majority of the population) who do not learn game, and who are not celibate. You realize that 1/3 of the guys in the PUA community are virgins right? And that 50% of them have been with 2 or less women. The average non-PUA has been with 11 women in his life.

This whole "learning game" thing is a male support group in disguise. It's like alcoholics anonymous for guys with emotional problems. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

As for "women are running away from commitment," I'd point out once again that both sexes are running away from commitment. There are entire books written on the changes happening in men right now in society. We're becoming just as fickle and selfish. I encourage you to learn about it, because this shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. If it were only women running away from commitment, then every PUA coach would have a wife and a mortgage instead of 100 notches.

Where's your facts on the emotional problems of people learning game?

Game is about getting what you want when you want it. It's about will power and control. It doesn't have to be about notch count.

Nothing between people is random. Those guys are using game tactics regardless of whether or not they are aware of it.

[blurb]

Quote:

Your choice between "learning game" and being "near-celibate" is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of guys (in fact, the majority of the population) who do not learn game, and who are not celibate. You realize that 1/3 of the guys in the PUA community are virgins right? And that 50% of them have been with 2 or less women. The average non-PUA has been with 11 women in his life.

This whole "learning game" thing is a male support group in disguise. It's like alcoholics anonymous for guys with emotional problems. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

You have a link to a PUA site in your signature.

Quote:

As for "women are running away from commitment," I'd point out once again that both sexes are running away from commitment. There are entire books written on the changes happening in men right now in society. We're becoming just as fickle and selfish. I encourage you to learn about it, because this shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. If it were only women running away from commitment, then every PUA coach would have a wife and a mortgage instead of 100 notches.

I still stand by my statement that women are more commitmentphobes than men are.

See: http://yourlife.usatoday.com/sex-relatio...43219110/1

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl...35,00.html

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-5991.html

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/...ment-16983

http://www.rooshv.com/you-did-this-to-me

[Jack D. Serrano]

(10-20-2011 03:16 AM)blurb Wrote:  

I still stand by my statement that women are more commitmentphobes than men are.

It's all good man.

Is it also your experience that women do not want to commitment with you?

In my case, and many guys cases who I have befriended and interviewed (personal interviews, not public stuff) and met (guys who have nothing to do with the whole PUA/Alpha/Beta paradigm) - if she likes you and you don't mess it up then she will be the one chasing YOU for sex, commitment, your phone number, buying you gifts, bringing you girls, etc.

Makes you wonder what you are doing that makes women run from commitment with you. You seem to blame women for a lot of problems that you, individually experience that many other men do not (they started it/they chose this/they don't want commitment). You have options.

BTW, a woman being highly sexual has nothing to do with being a slut or having slept with many partners. A hot woman with a good attitude will beg you (IF she really likes you) for sex regardless of her sexual history (even virgins). Maybe not you, but for a lot of guys this is true. But maybe you think it's useful to ignore their experiences because they differ from yours.

[Entropy4]

It's well-cited in PUA circles that "20% of the men are having 80% of the sex." Well surveys show the same thing about women: that basically 20% of the women are having 80% of the sex. This mythology that all women mindlessly pursue "alphas" and dick over "betas" misrepresents the vast majority of the population.

I stand by my statements: both men and women are becoming commitment-phobic. And that if all of the women you meet are commitment-phobes, then you are simply meeting the wrong women and probably a commitment-phobe yourself. I can roll 30+ women off the top of my head who have wanted to be my girlfriend the past couple years. Some of them were really awesome girls too.

Any time I see someone make statements like: "All women are X," or "All black people are Y," or "All Germans are Z," I immediately give them no credit. It demonstrates a simplistic mind and an inability to think critically.

Do some research on assortment theory, attachment theory, check the research of Helen Fisher and Stephanie Coontz (they're scientists, not feminists). Get educated. Stop complaining about the lame women and take on the responsibility of finding the awesome women.

Actually, on second thought, don't. More for me...

[Gmac]

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

You realize that 1/3 of the guys in the PUA community are virgins right? And that 50% of them have been with 2 or less women. The average non-PUA has been with 11 women in his life.

Let me stop you right there.

This isn't a PUA community. We're not a part of that.

[MiXX]

(10-15-2011 01:36 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

I am nearly 60. Let me tell you, time is finite. But I am going to drink great wine, help my clients do business better, and fuck like an animal.

Until my ashes get scattered over the ocean.

Wow!! You are 60 and think like that? I have a whole new level of respect fo you Tenderman100 - I never noticed your posts before.....I notice them now.

Mixx

[thegmanifesto]

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

You realize that 1/3 of the guys in the PUA community are virgins right? And that 50% of them have been with 2 or less women. The average non-PUA has been with 11 women in his life.

I think these numbers might apply to the "pua instructors" in the world as well.

[MiXX]

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

You realize that 1/3 of the guys in the PUA community are virgins right? And that 50% of them have been with 2 or less women.

(10-20-2011 10:46 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think these numbers might apply to the "pua instructors" in the world as well.

ROTFLMAO!! Too funny!

Mixx

[tenderman100]

(10-20-2011 10:27 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

Wow!! You are 60 and think like that? I have a whole new level of respect fo you Tenderman100 - I never noticed your posts before.....I notice them now.

Mixx

Emphasis on NEARLY...

[Moma]

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

Your choice between "learning game" and being "near-celibate" is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of guys (in fact, the majority of the population) who do not learn game, and who are not celibate. You realize that 1/3 of the guys in the PUA community are virgins right? And that 50% of them have been with 2 or less women. The average non-PUA has been with 11 women in his life.

This whole "learning game" thing is a male support group in disguise. It's like alcoholics anonymous for guys with emotional problems. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

As for "women are running away from commitment," I'd point out once again that both sexes are running away from commitment. There are entire books written on the changes happening in men right now in society. We're becoming just as fickle and selfish. I encourage you to learn about it, because this shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. If it were only women running away from commitment, then every PUA coach would have a wife and a mortgage instead of 100 notches.

What makes someone a PUA? I've been trying to bang lizards before I knew such a term exist. And all my spars (and other males that were not in my circle) in London were on the exact same flex.

I think this term spawned from the feminism and PC created in North America. Europe is a much harsher animal. London is a mean beast. Growing up in London if people didn't see you with a lizard you were accused of being gay. Straight up.

Banging lizards in the stairways, getting hummers around the back of the estate, penetration in the park, club banging (reptile penetration in a club), these moves were standard.

One was FORCED to get their weight up by social pressure or die wanking. This is independent of race. Asians, Blacks, Whites, every group were getting their tips wet or getting chiefed out by the 'mans dem'.

Being PC is a North American thing.
I've heard many racial, homophobic, sexist and sizeist slurs fly in London.
Over here, you can actually get arrested for slurs. In London, report a slur and the bobbies would pat you on your back and say "Hang about geezer, he's only having a bit of a muckabout"

What about the guy from Brooklyn who banged five Spanish lizards and tag teamed a desperate housewife? He came to London to fcuk every female moving. Can he be classified as a PUA?

And I didn't even diversify. When I decided to hit lizards of different races in London, my notch count went even higher.

North America is a beautiful place in terms of opportunities but I find it can also be dangerous in terms of the foundations it sets.

These difficulties are only city specific as well. I've never seen any poster in here originating from Miami, NYC complaining about inability to close lizards.

I have fam in Miami and some of their friends are as goofy as fcuk but they still bang fly dimes.

My rant.

[Timoteo]

I don't know that women are MORE commitment-phobic than men, but I believe they are as likely as men to withdraw from commitment. They just go about it differently than men. With a man, it will be more apparent early on that he wants to keep it casual through his actions. With women, they'll claim to want a relationship, but will sabotage it, and blame a man for the relationship not working out. They'll accuse HIM of being emotionally unavailable, when SHE drove him away. Remember...women are far more likely to file for divorce, while men are more likely to stay in a bad marriage (even if he's cheating to make it bearable). Which is where the issues of selfishness and loyalty come in . She's unhappy, so she'll destroy whoever's life that she has to in order to be happy again, while a man is more likely to stay in the a bad relationship to spare pain to others. Women are more likely to seek out relationships because single women are more stigmatized, and they are more likely to define themselves by who they're with. That still doesn't make them more committed to those relationships.

[Samseau]

(10-20-2011 05:04 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

It's well-cited in PUA circles that "20% of the men are having 80% of the sex." Well surveys show the same thing about women: that basically 20% of the women are having 80% of the sex. This mythology that all women mindlessly pursue "alphas" and dick over "betas" misrepresents the vast majority of the population.

All your stats mean is that alphas are monopolizing the high quality women whilst betas get some sympathy sex from the leftover sluts.

Still looks like alphas are being mindlessly pursued to me.

[megaframe]

Ever since I started reading about it, I was always under the impression that "Game" as a term was simply used as anything that could be used to attract women. As in, it wasn't something that's restricted to simply those who read the classic game books or who read sites like this in order to get with women, but something that every man has some level of, regardless of how he gets it.

[DLuzhin]

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

This whole "learning game" thing is a male support group in disguise. It's like alcoholics anonymous for guys with emotional problems. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

Much like alcoholism is said to camouflage an alcoholic's inner difficulties, I do believe it's true that failure with women is often symptomatic of other psychic issues. However I think that the issues aren't quite emotional problems per se, but rather that the individual has yet to structure himself in accordance to an appropriate masculine psychological balance. In any case emotional problems should not villified; no evolved person has ever been lacking for them.

Your statement is true though. It's a male support group where few know what they are actually talking about, though, and thus it ends up being a severely farcical case of the blind leading the blind.

[Giovonny]

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

This whole "learning game" thing is a male support group in disguise. It's like alcoholics anonymous for guys with emotional problems.

Ha, this is funny, but its also very true. Self-improvment is a big part of learning Game. I think we usually call it "Inner Game". Loving yourself unconditionally is key.

(10-20-2011 09:37 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

This isn't a PUA community. We're not a part of that.

We're not? How are we different?

Just curious..

[Gmac]

(10-21-2011 11:24 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(10-20-2011 02:08 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

This whole "learning game" thing is a male support group in disguise. It's like alcoholics anonymous for guys with emotional problems.

Ha, this is funny, but its also very true. Self-improvment is a big part of learning Game. I think we usually call it "Inner Game". Loving yourself unconditionally is key.

(10-20-2011 09:37 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

This isn't a PUA community. We're not a part of that.

We're not? How are we different?

Just curious..

Extremely different. The entire "PUA" community is still stuck in 2007 focusing on sets and techniques instead of improving themselves or becoming more interesting. You need only take one step into another forum to see that.

Then there's the lingo, and the fact that we focus on self-improvement, becoming better men, and living better lives here. If anything, the manosphere movement takes a few small pieces of what was gleamed from the "PUA" community. In all truth, whenever someone tries to call me a "pick up artist" I'm more annoyed and offended than anything else. Don't lump me in with those clowns.

[esperar]

Knowing what I know about women, I'd have to be stupid or in denial not to be a misogynist. I'm a misogynist in the not trusting sense though, not the hating sense. My advice is to just fuck women, not be committed to any, and find other purposes in your life.

[La Familia]

You become more of a misogynist when you see how they destroy other men in front of their posse. They love every second of shredding a beta's text, reading it out loud and laughing about it. I witnessed this today in my own group of friends, where one of the chicks got a text from this guy who has been in love with her since freshman year in college. It was painful to watch, imagining how this guy would have committed suicide had he heard their dissection of his text. You always need these reminders to keep your game tight, unless you want to end up being what's for dinner.

[Jack D. Serrano]

(10-23-2011 11:15 PM)La Familia Wrote:  

You become more of a misogynist when you see how they destroy other men in front of their posse. They love every second of shredding a beta's text, reading it out loud and laughing about it. I witnessed this today in my own group of friends, where one of the chicks got a text from this guy who has been in love with her since freshman year in college. It was painful to watch, imagining how this guy would have committed suicide had he heard their dissection of his text. You always need these reminders to keep your game tight, unless you want to end up being what's for dinner.

Yeah, girls love to get together and laugh at all the dumb shit guys to just to get in their pants. (It's funny when you are able to clearly see all the dumb shit some girls do that mess up their chances for a happy relationship with guys too, though). It's all good. People laugh at people they don't like/are indifferent to. Girls, guys, alpha, beta, epsilon, godzilla, whatever.

But guys gotta realize that 99% of the PUA/Game/Seduction Community is teaching guys more and more things that cause those same reactions from women. In a lot of ways, many of the underlying frames and beliefs of the PUA/seduction stuff is even worse because guys occasionally get sex despite using it, despite all the emotional stress, and then they end up re-enforcing behavior that is causing them lots of internal strain (which sometimes gets released in the form of hating women).

The super-nice guy and the PUA are two side of the same coin. They are both manipulating women in order to get sex. One uses being nice, flowers and compliments, the other uses acting tough, trying to have smooth lines, or trying to show he is cooler than other guys.

End result is the same - guys ending up with women who are easily manipulated while a very small percentage of men are enjoying life with the highest value women in the world.

But instead of guys finding out how to become the kind of man that simply doesn't need to persuade women to like them, they end up finding more and more ways to persuade ("Game", as it is used in seduction community conversation) in order to hide from this fact - if they don't persuade women to like them, they are afraid no woman will like them.

Fact is, girls and their girlfriends will shred apart anything a guy does, no matter who he is or what he says - IF SHE DOESN'T LIKE HIM.

Take the same guy, the same line, the same situation but with a girl who likes him and she'll love it. It's all about chemistry between the girl and guy.

Girls rip guys apart because those guys keep going after girls who don't like them, ignoring all the (obvious) signals that she isn't interested.

Any guy who has a lot of experience with women can tell you that no matter what you say or what you do, lots of beautiful women will hate it, lots of beautiful women will love it. It's all about whether the girl actually likes you or not (this isn't something that can be faked, or persuaded through if you want smooth, stress-free, long relationships, either open or exclusive). Alpha/beta never comes into play.

If the girl likes you, most anything you do (barring completely weird/stupid stuff) will seem alpha to anybody watching. If the girl doesn't like you, most anything you do that involves this girl will seem beta.

Then there are also the numerous cases where the girl actually likes the guy, he fails to recognize the obvious and makes things way more difficult for himself, gets the girl, then guys give him props for overcoming the challenge and getting a girl who they thought didn't like him. (This is what I have most commonly seen from guys who others look at as the "PUA guru" types. But really, this is already getting more and more off-topic).

===

So, what can guys do to improve their dating lives based on what I just wrote? (Because that's the only thing of real importance - can what I just read help me.)

Find girls who are into you. Girls who you share chemistry with. Then take things from there.

There is a percentage of ANY population/type of women who will like you right from the start. Extremely beautiful women are not much different from ugly girls. Some like you, some don't. A percentage of both will like you right from the get-go. That's why you should only ever approach women you are VERY attracted to, visually, knowing that some (not all) will like you.

After you see you have chemistry with her, you just have to find out if she matches the kind of woman you want in your life. If not, drop her from your life ruthlessly and relentlessly until you find the kind of woman you really want to let into your life.

If you only talk to beautiful women, ALL of the women who you let stay in your life will be ... beautiful.

[Gmac]

Quote:

The super-nice guy and the PUA are two side of the same coin. They are both manipulating women in order to get sex.

Really?



When I was younger and naive I wasn't nice because I was trying to manipulate women to sleep with them. It was because I was a genuinely good guy who wanted to meet a good girl. There are plenty of nice guys uninterested in game that for any number of reasons don't pursue sex like many of us do here. Maybe they're content with monogamy or don't know anything different. Maybe they're in a social circle with a mix of girls and guys who are all legitimate friends.

Quote:

Yeah, girls love to get together and laugh at all the dumb shit guys to just to get in their pants.

Quote:

Fact is, girls and their girlfriends will shred apart anything a guy does, no matter who he is or what he says - IF SHE DOESN'T LIKE HIM.

Not all of the blue pill guys out there are beta orbiters whose end goal is sex. Many girls often make false assumptions and act on their cruel, innate nature... the end result: Guys like Roosh, myself, or anyone else who turned to game because they finished last as the nice guy (not just regarding sex with women). Girls will tear apart anyone for amusement, even if they like them. Why? Because they don't know how to keep their damn mouths shut. Gossip reigns supreme.

Quote:

Girls rip guys apart because those guys keep going after girls who don't like them, ignoring all the (obvious) signals that she isn't interested.

Until I was about 25, none of those signals were obvious. Have you forgotten what it's like being a young man? Personally, I think you might be a bit touch. I understand you think you're on to some "higher quality game" plateau but all you're really doing here is alienating everyone.

[Roosh]

My suspicions that Jack is a female is getting stronger.

[Gmac]

(10-24-2011 05:01 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

My suspicions that Jack is a female is getting stronger.

I don't think so. See, he's dated hundreds of Japanese women.

http://jackdserrano.hubpages.com/hub/Und...nese-Women

He even has a $3 e-book!

http://www.datingskillsreview.com/meet-more-women/

[screwbiedooo]

There's so much on this thread I agree with. I could rant for hours about perfidious woman. It was Eve in the garden of Eden who messed up the entire race. Women, do, and it shocks me still, choose evil ways, frequently. Fairer sex, gentler sex, compassionate sex???? Not in my experience. I think Jack Nicholson's character said it best in that film (the one about the writer and the gay guy and Helen Hunt)
"So how do you write women so well?"
"I think of a man, and I take away reason, and accountability"
That just about sums it up for me.
Many, but of course not all, seem to enjoy dicking with guys' heads, just for fun. I think they love taking a man's power. They don't have their own balls so they try and take ours. Of course generalisations are lame, and of course some of the blame has to rest on men's shoulders. Many men are total $%^&s for sure. And we, as men, seem to be attracted to the bitchy ones who dick us around. Sorry, but it seems to be something hardwired into the psyche - bitch on radar - pursue, pursue, she must not get away; and turn away from the nicer characters. Sucks too. But it comes down to weird psychological/spiritual mechanisms that we are scarcely aware of when they happen. That's what lizards/b*****s are tapping into. We ought to resist that.
Feminism is also a nightmare. It's led us all the wrong way; At risk of making another generalisation I believe that women, in a kind way, need to be dominated/controlled by a man, because, as is demonstrated time and time again, they usually cannot do it responsibly on their own (not to say all men can). I think this partly explains why they go for real a*holes so often. What is feminism except a rebellion against men? There is a lot to be said for the old values. I think it really is a way to be relatively happy in a screwed up world. That touches on another point. I find Latin American women infinitely more bearable/decent as well as sexy, than European women. They tend to have warmth, playfulness and compassion in a way that you don't find in the British girls. They are also far more adapted to the old-fashioned man/woman roles. The European sexual scene is really messed up. It's really animalistic, it's just like a power game. Girls screw over guys, guys screw over girls to see who is the hardest. As if there has to be a winner and a loser. Romance is like a dirty word. Love is either non-existent or misunderstood. I don't think it was meant to be that way. It damages people, sometimes for life.
As for apollonian retreat there is a lot to be said for it. I do think when women are not the centre of your existence, the be all and end all of your day, that when you have other priorities, live your life, develop your talents and become a rounded, secure personality, that's when you find real fulfillment and the women just follow, naturally.
Unfortunately, hard wired into us too is the primordial need to be with woman, so we are in fact, screwed either way. Our balls are truly a double edged sword. St Paul said something like you're best off single, women/married life'll really mess you up, don't put yourself through it. There's some truth in there I'm sure, because ultimately every relationship is doomed to fail. Sweethearts still madly in love after 10/20/30 years? NO! They're living something different and practical at that stage. If it gets bad they have a painful divorce, and even if they do make it work, heck one of them is going to die - boom! That's another good reason not to care too much about it.
Women also have one other important consideration that we don't. They have necessarily to be more selective and careful about committment because having babies for them is a whole lifestyle. Not for men, who can get up and walk out. That said, it staggers me how irresponsible women can sometimes be about sex, when the actual consequences can be way more serious for them.
Anyway, the logical conclusion to all this is a resigned indifference, and, in my case at least, a more spiritual perspective to things, which is I think where the real meaning lies.