[DrugAdvisor]

I was referring to the fat on my body

Thanks for the breakdown!!!

(07-10-2018 04:04 AM)Horus Wrote:  

(07-10-2018 02:53 AM)DrugAdvisor Wrote:  

Going into monk mode to trim fat off, i found this easy to follow. For those of you who are on this too, do you measure out how much meat you eat in a day?

General concensus is "eat till im full" but there are days where youre more hungry than others due to outputs.

Why would you trim off the fat? That's the best part. You'll never feel satiated without enough fat.

I think this is a matter of trying it out to see how it works for you. You won't find many people here who have tried this long-term - I only did it for two months several years ago - so nobody is qualified to give definitive advice. Treat it as an experiment and report back your findings!

"Eat till you're full" would be a good starting point. My experience is that it's impossible to overeat fat and protein - there comes a point , even if your belly isn't full, where your brain tells you it's enough, you're statisfied, and you simply don't feel like eating any more. (Compare that to eating pizza for example - you can completely stuff yourself to bursting point, but it's always possible to eat a little more).

The only possibility where it may be possible to overeat could be with ground beef. Yesterday I bought 1kg of ground beef and consumed it throughout the day as hamburger patties. But when I looked at the nutrition stats I was surprised that it came to 3320 calories (140g of protein and 300g of fat). That's too much for one day. Compare that to 1kg of sirloin steak which comes to 2440 calories (270g of protein and 140g of fat). I think it would be impossible to eat that much sirloin in one day, but overeating the ground beef was very easy for me. My theory is - (and take this with a grain of salt because even I'm not convinced) - that ground beef is made by "processing" cheaper cuts of meat which are usually difficult to consume in large quantities into something which is as easy to consume as a steak. Kind of like how it's easy to consume 2000 calories of processed wheat, but impossible to consume 2000 calories of unprocessed wheat. (I know that's a vastly exaggerated comparison, but you get the idea). When I get back into this (after I get back from holiday) I will take the approach of eating a variety of meat and eating until I'm satisfied. Perhaps one day would be a steak, some hamburger patties, chicken drumsticks, eggs and some offal.

[Malone]

This is one of the big success stories from the ZC movement.

http://web.archive.org/web/2015050815063...en-family/

(that site's dead it seems, so an archive link)

42 year old mother of 2 from the article

[Hannibal]

(07-10-2018 03:07 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

I'm in - day 3 now and feeling great, energy levels fine. I was on a keto diet immediately before this so it wasn't a big transition for me. I'll see how it goes for 30 days.

I'm on day 2 and I feel like shit. I'm guessing it's the keto flu, as I never did strict keto before and I'm coming off a pretty carb-heavy diet.

Currently living on coffee with heavy cream, fatty ground beef, cheese, eggs over easy, diet coke and the sparing use of generic Crystal lite packets. Some of the internet carnivores will claim that anything other than meat and water isn't true carnivore diet, but I figure it's close enough for now. That Bear dude claimed that 5 grams of carbs or less a day is close enough, so that gives you some slight wiggle room with certain things, like heavy cream or eggs (eggs apparently have 1/4 gram of sugar in them).

Many of the benefits I've noticed from intermittent fasting, I am also noticing from the meat only diet, although it's too early to tell. The vast majority of those benefits ie energy levels, lower anxiety, greatly increased concentration, better sleep (no snoring, impressive from a family plagued by sleep apnea) - I believe these are all connected to the absence of rollercoasting blood sugar levels and the bodily inflammation that comes from that. I also believe that certain vices like drinking, smoking, and sugar addictions are all related in that respect.

What always scared me off a full blown Keto diet was all the diet gurus telling me that I'd waste away if I did anything strenuous on a keto diet. I decided to just say "fuck it" and give it a shot for a month to see what happens.

If it doesn't work out, I'll just go back to the intermittent fasting with somewhat leaner meats, "clean" carbs like rice and oatmeal, and vegetables.

In closing, if the meat only diet doesn't work, I lose a month or two of time. If it does work and does what some folks claim it does (higher testosterone levels, insane recovery, increased endurance, few if any deleterious health effects, improved sleep, improved bone and dental health, reduced or eliminated depression and anxiety, leanness) then I will definitely have gained.

It's easy to get carried away with testimonials so I'm not going to get my hopes up too high.

[RexImperator]

“Keto Flu” is a real thing if you’ve been eating lots of carbs but it does go away after a few days.

[RawGod]

If it's any help to those experiencing "keto flu": I cut all carbs from my diet as a temporary experiment some years ago. It was really tough - shaking, no energy, etc. However, it was only that first time. Since then I've gone into keto several times and it's nowhere near as tough. The body learned how to transition fairly smoothly. I still get cravings for a few days but nothing like the first withdrawal.

[Hannibal]

I just grilled up three pounds of ground beef, ate all of it and now I feel fine.

Might go smash some weights later.

[ChefAllDay]

Hannibal, dump the diet Coke. I am sure you know that, but man you just gotta do it. Awesome job otherwise.

[Hannibal]

(07-11-2018 09:37 PM)ChefAllDay Wrote:  

Hannibal, dump the diet Coke. I am sure you know that, but man you just gotta do it. Awesome job otherwise.

Yeah I know. I'm going to replace it with ice cold water and Lacroix after a trip to the store tomorrow.

[Duke Main]

When I started the keto diet I learned the importance (for me) of supplementing sodium, potassium and magnesium. It definitely prevents nighttime cramping (again, for me) and I've heard it might lessen the keto flu symptoms. Like RawGod, I've transitioned in and out of keto a few times and haven't noticed the negative effects of the first time.

[MOVSM]

(07-06-2018 08:35 AM)Malone Wrote:  

Any tips on cooking the leg of lamb? Lots of lamb around here. I've done slow cooked shank, but not a whole leg.

Also if you read that 'Bear' link above he goes into organ meats. He doesn't eat many of them. He talks about liver or something having lots of carbs, something like that.

Here is a Georgian recipe from the Soviet Russian cookbook: Please to the Table: The Russian Cookbook

Organ meats are good when prepared well, and are an excellent (and cheap) source of high-quality protein. Some are even high in vitamin C.
Fergus Henderson has built his entire career on, and wrote books on the preparation.

   

[MOVSM]

(07-11-2018 10:15 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

(07-11-2018 09:37 PM)ChefAllDay Wrote:  

Hannibal, dump the diet Coke. I am sure you know that, but man you just gotta do it. Awesome job otherwise.

Yeah I know. I'm going to replace it with ice cold water and Lacroix after a trip to the store tomorrow.

Other good beverages include tea and coffee hot or cold, homemade lemon- and limeade (sweetened with stevia), and dry red wine for your steak. In the old world they mix wine with water 1:2 ratio. That makes for a very refreshing drink when its scorching outside.
You can also make apple cider vinegar into a drink--I mix it with water and (potassium) salt to mellow the harshness.

[JackinMelbourne]

1

(07-05-2018 12:14 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Doesn't seem like a good diet for an active person. Anyone doing this while training hard or just generally being a busy person?

You could eat more and throw in supplements, nuts, fish etc. There's no need to take it to the extreme and go full carnivore unless you have issues like the people who have issues.

Can't say I train "bodybuilder hard", but I do train consistently for functional strength and have become leaner looking with overall weight staying roughly the same. Kind of feel lighter and more agile.

Facial features have become sharp, the complete opposite of pasta muncher soft.

[Hannibal]

I had a moderate episode of tachycardia and what could have been a panic attack. As a result I decided to end the carnivore diet, since I have no idea if it was due to not eating enough fat with respect to protein, too much or too little salt, an electrolyte imbalance (deadly on a zero carb diet), "overexertion" related to my level of ketogenic adaptation, dehydration, or my brain freaking out over the low levels of glucose in my blood. I really wanted to continue but decided to play it safe and try it again another time.

Wouldn't you know it, on zerocarbhealth.com they had an article about how you should take it really easy your first month or so on the carnivore diet, especially if you have never done keto for more than a month. This would have been good information to have. After the break in period you can go back to doing whatever you want. Shawn Baker is a carnivore and the dude has been setting world records in rowing.

As far as the diet is concerned, it was pretty great to be on it. Mental focus was insane and one single cup of coffee hit me like an adderall. It was great to come home and feast on a three pound beef roast, or slap a bunch of steaks on the grill. I'm going back on the diet when I get a desk job, the assorted health benefits and supreme levels of focus were too noticeable to ignore.

Some of the weirder shit I noticed.

I lost weight off my face. My cheeks became more defined.
Gums didn't bleed after flossing
I had a scrape from a week ago and it's already healed
Vision became less blurry (I am very nearsighted)
Faster typing speed
Slept five hours one night and woke up feeling great
Senses sharpened, especially sense of smell
Extreme sensitivity to stimulants
The few wrinkles that were on my face dissappeared.
Never really had an appetite until I'd smell meat cooking. I could go all day without eating.

[Bushido]

Guys, there is no need to suffer the keto flu like that.

Buy some chicken stock from the store or make your own broth (gives you the necessary electrolytes).

This will make the transition 100x easier.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-05-2018 12:14 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Doesn't seem like a good diet for an active person. Anyone doing this while training hard or just generally being a busy person?

There are PLENTY of people training hard on this diet, and for a lot of people the performance increases is one of the main benefits/reasons to do it.

I wrote this in a LINE group I'm in with other members and will repost it here:

Quote:

I've been mostly doing carnivore past 8 or 9 days or so and it definitely feels good. Even easier than IF (though you tend to fall into an IF pattern naturally too because you're so satiated all the time).

Last night for dinner I gobbled down four cheeseburger patties with bacon, drizzled in bacon grease. After I ate, I seriously felt so full of energy I went outside and did 11 sets of dips in the rain just to burn it off. And even then I still felt ready to go....lol

Would have kept going but didn't want to aggravate a wrist that was acting up from a previous workout.

Anyhow, I don't know if I've ever really experienced something like that right after a big meal. Perhaps just my imagination, but I also felt particularly pumped up in my muscles after this workout.

I've seen a lot of people mentioning how they put on muscle a lot easier and broke through strength plateaus when going all meat, so you never know, I guess. Interested to see if I have a similar effect again or if it was just an isolated event.

Breaking through plateaus, increased energy, significant lifting gains, increased endurance (in and out of the sack), and the ability to train hard even on a full stomach are common anecdotes I'm coming across in the literature.

As for examples, don't really need to look any further than Dr. Shawn Baker, one of the main proponents of the diet (he's in his 50s):





Probably safe to say he trains fairly hard.

[DrugAdvisor]

Agreed with BB on the ease of the diet compared to IF. Groceries is real easy to do and your fridge is unlikely to be stuffed with any unhealthy food and snacks.

5-6 days a week, I do carnivore/keto (with no vege and fruits) and sundays ill sit down and eat with the family.

On carnivore days, meals are real simple. Its either:
A) 2-3 steaks,
B) 4-6 eggs,
C) 600g-800g mince made into patties

Condiments: butter, cheese, black pepper and salt. Thsts it.

For snacking, coconut oil freezed, with peanut butter. (Only if i feel hungry at night)

On days when i feel tired from overworkout, i add in a green apple cooked with the patties (pork patties go well with cooked apples.) And add some greek yogurt as dessert.

Beverage wise, its been tea, coffee and lemon water.

Pros:
P/s: no constipation issues from the high amount of fat intake. No bloated feeling associated with refined carbs. Mental focus is good. And like Hannibal mentioned, sensitivity to caffiene is a blessing too.

Cons:
Very short tempered. Honestly, blew my top off at least twice in the week i went carnivore / low carb. You will start to see the bullshit from the important very clearly and react that way. (Maybe its a pro for some people too). But its made it very hard to deal with kids.

Quality of meat can make or break your diet. Sometimes when were forced to eat out, and in SEA some hawkers dont have a sense of handling good and bad quality meat. If you get a meal with bad quality, you will feel it the next day if not the same day itself.

Overall, i honestly dont see myself doing it for more than a year because we lose so many chances to bond over food. Especially with family. But for single guys trying to up their gym game or cut quick, i would give it a try as a way to simplify their lives.

[Malone]

Starting tomorrow, after I hit the market to fill the fridge with dead animal.

Just got back from the UK, where it seems that almost everyone is either a little bit to a lot fat. Inspirational.

[TravelerKai]

Some of the posts in this thread are baffling. Guys you are aware that men are omnivores correct? All this Carnivore stuff sounds like male hamster versions of the Atkins diet. Hannibal's post should be a warning. Atkins died of a heart disease or heart attack right? Jack La Lanne lived to 96 and ran on clean fuel. He wasn't a vegetarian either. Ate fish and other cleaner meat.

One of the benefits men can have on such a varied diet allows us to be apex predators at the top of the food chain like Brown/Grizzly Bears. They are omnivores too. If almost all the deer in the forest had a stroke and died, they won't starve. Pandas on the other hand, if the Chinese cut down most of the bamboo, they would starve to death very quickly.

If you think certain cultures eating only or mostly meat are eating the same things you eat, such as grain fed cows full of arthritis, cortisol, adrenaline, hormones, and other assorted chemical cocktails, you are fooling yourselves badly. The difference in chickens running around my wife's hometown and the ones back home in the US, might as well be a different species. Their's are skinny as fuck, tougher, they run wild and eat crickets, and have a much different flavor. Sometimes I want a huge juicy chicken breast in China, but when I think about the water and phosphates they stuff into these caged up chickens, along with injections, I snap out of my pout.

You guys are not eating ostrich. You are not eating venison. You are not eating seal meat. You probably are eating farm raised salmon, instead of wild caught, which is a god damned joke. You are eating heavily produced beef and chicken/eggs, thinking you are doing something good when you are not. How are you going to stay regular? Human stomachs cannot push shit out like a Siberian Tiger! You need fibrous materials to keep your colon from getting too dirty begging for cancer. Even dogs sometimes have to eat grass to help themselves out in that department. For you atheist types out there, you think your evolutionary progress is the same as a dog's?

Even Atkins diet knuckleheads back in the day had enough good sense to use to keep a can of Benefiber to sprinkle on their food. What are you guys doing? Shitting cinderblocks out your asses? Or poorly digested slop ignoring your absorption issues? Show some blood work if you are so certain of yourselves. What are your energy levels like? You could not do anything stenuous like this for too long. Once your body is chronically fatigue because it chews on your fat stores for carb like energy, what else is left? Why can't you guys be sensible and eat carbs responsibly? Fork control?

Get off the hamster wheel fellas.

[MOVSM]

TravelerKai,
With all due respect to you as the senior forum member, you are having a case of the vapors.

We here are are discussing the facts and experiments of others that stem out of the massive failure of the dietary advice of the last 40 years that made us fat and stupid.

You on the other hand are regurgitating the anti-male propaganda from the same people who ruined our food and would rather see all of us turn into soyboys.

Do you think your diet is superior? Fine. Post it here, we'll discuss it. For that matter, there are already threads on the forum advocating your diet.

To chastise others as hamstering for discussion of experiments and personal experiences confirming/disproving it, is wrong. Why are you against civil discourse?

[TravelerKai]

(07-16-2018 10:53 AM)MOVSM Wrote:  

TravelerKai,
With all due respect to you as the senior forum member, you are having a case of the vapors.

We here are are discussing the facts and experiments of others that stem out of the massive failure of the dietary advice of the last 40 years that made us fat and stupid.

You on the other hand are regurgitating the anti-male propaganda from the same people who ruined our food and would rather see all of us turn into soyboys.

Do you think your diet is superior? Fine. Post it here, we'll discuss it. For that matter, there are already threads on the forum advocating your diet.

To chastise others as hamstering for discussion of experiments and personal experiences confirming/disproving it, is wrong. Why are you against civil discourse?

Nobody mentioned stuff about sugar and soy. I certainly did not. Feel free to discuss what you want, but the logic in the posts leaves much to be desired.

I did not even attack Keto diets, because some people know how to do those correctly without destroying their bodies in the process.

You cannot justify eating only meat. That is ridiculous. Some of you have to be looking for shortcuts hardcore to get that desperate. Are some of you obese or overweight looking for an edge or something?

What legit medical doctor or dietitian advocates eating only meat? Or is this yet another bro science thing, like how you attacked rice as being toxic last year?

[MOVSM]

(07-16-2018 11:01 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Nobody mentioned stuff about sugar and soy. I certainly did not. Feel free to discuss what you want, but the logic in the posts leaves much to be desired.

I did not even attack Keto diets, because some people know how to do those correctly without destroying their bodies in the process.

You cannot justify eating only meat. That is ridiculous. Some of you have to be looking for shortcuts hardcore to get that desperate. Are some of you obese or overweight looking for an edge or something?

What legit medical doctor or dietitian advocates eating only meat? Or is this yet another bro science thing, like how you attacked rice as being toxic last year?

That's why we are having a discussion about an *experiment* and it's merits and shortcomings.

Obesity is of only tangential relevance here. The focus is on health benefits.

"Ridiculous, cannot justify..."--Is it? Inuit, Masai, Siberian pastoralists, plains Indians lived for thousands of years on this diet. And with Masai you cannot claim genetic adaptation.

Doctors--Dr. Shawn Baker created the carnivore diet. Gary Taubes mentioned the concept in his book. Turn of (last) century medical experiments showed the concept was valid. (and were promptly forgotten by the medical community)

The ridiculousness you mention--at one point of time, distance communication and flight were also ridiculous.

[TravelerKai]

(07-16-2018 11:18 AM)MOVSM Wrote:  

(07-16-2018 11:01 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Nobody mentioned stuff about sugar and soy. I certainly did not. Feel free to discuss what you want, but the logic in the posts leaves much to be desired.

I did not even attack Keto diets, because some people know how to do those correctly without destroying their bodies in the process.

You cannot justify eating only meat. That is ridiculous. Some of you have to be looking for shortcuts hardcore to get that desperate. Are some of you obese or overweight looking for an edge or something?

What legit medical doctor or dietitian advocates eating only meat? Or is this yet another bro science thing, like how you attacked rice as being toxic last year?

That's why we are having a discussion about an *experiment* and it's merits and shortcomings.

Obesity is of only tangential relevance here. The focus is on health benefits.

"Ridiculous, cannot justify..."--Is it? Inuit, Masai, Siberian pastoralists, plains Indians lived for thousands of years on this diet. And with Masai you cannot claim genetic adaptation.

Doctors--Dr. Shawn Baker created the carnivore diet. Gary Taubes mentioned the concept in his book. Turn of (last) century medical experiments showed the concept was valid. (and were promptly forgotten by the medical community)

The ridiculousness you mention--at one point of time, distance communication and flight were also ridiculous.

This same doctor that lost his license? The same one that found him self diabetic after eating only meat for one year?

Again, what are those natives eating? It isn't a farm raised animal doped up on injections or eating grain to get fat so that the cuts weigh more and sell higher.

What about the external factors? They are outside in sunlight getting plenty vitamin D, while you sit inside arguing online with me. What about nuts, grains, mushrooms, herbs, etc.?

That 5000+ year old mummy man they defrosted this week had a stomach full of vegetation stuff and herbs to go along with goat meat and fat.

Those people that likely built Gobekli Tepe are messing up the narrative of hunter gather theory lately. I bet they did not eat only meat.

I have read a few books on anthropology and prehistory stuff, and I am no stretch of the imagination an expert, but American Indians knew how to tell when stuff like almonds were poisonous as well as strawberries. They did not always eat just meat, otherwise how could they pass down that knowledge to the younger generations? They were responsible with the buffalo and meat sources and did not over hunt. Even Alaska has berries in those cold areas.

A tribe eating tarantulas likely means that exoskeleton is pushing other shit out their intestine like a fiber. Not everything is digestible and can serve purposes that they probably cannot explain either.

We do not have the stomach acid of a hyena or a vulture bro. Also, did he or anyone else bother to blood test those people they watch? Anyone have gout or or stones (gall or kidney)? If not, what's the point? Even the scientist guy (name eludes me) that studies cortisol/stress levels in Baboons blood tests them and collects all the data.

We can observe all day long, but where is the hard science at?

You guys need to be careful not to encourage stuff that could get someone hurt. Tachycardia is not a joke, nor is being diabetic and not on medication or solutions to get rid of pre-diabetes.

[debeguiled]

(07-16-2018 09:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Some of the posts in this thread are baffling. Guys you are aware that men are omnivores correct? All this Carnivore stuff sounds like male hamster versions of the Atkins diet. Hannibal's post should be a warning. Atkins died of a heart disease or heart attack right? Jack La Lanne lived to 96 and ran on clean fuel. He wasn't a vegetarian either. Ate fish and other cleaner meat.

One of the benefits men can have on such a varied diet allows us to be apex predators at the top of the food chain like Brown/Grizzly Bears. They are omnivores too. If almost all the deer in the forest had a stroke and died, they won't starve. Pandas on the other hand, if the Chinese cut down most of the bamboo, they would starve to death very quickly.

If you think certain cultures eating only or mostly meat are eating the same things you eat, such as grain fed cows full of arthritis, cortisol, adrenaline, hormones, and other assorted chemical cocktails, you are fooling yourselves badly. The difference in chickens running around my wife's hometown and the ones back home in the US, might as well be a different species. Their's are skinny as fuck, tougher, they run wild and eat crickets, and have a much different flavor. Sometimes I want a huge juicy chicken breast in China, but when I think about the water and phosphates they stuff into these caged up chickens, along with injections, I snap out of my pout.

You guys are not eating ostrich. You are not eating venison. You are not eating seal meat. You probably are eating farm raised salmon, instead of wild caught, which is a god damned joke. You are eating heavily produced beef and chicken/eggs, thinking you are doing something good when you are not. How are you going to stay regular? Human stomachs cannot push shit out like a Siberian Tiger! You need fibrous materials to keep your colon from getting too dirty begging for cancer. Even dogs sometimes have to eat grass to help themselves out in that department. For you atheist types out there, you think your evolutionary progress is the same as a dog's?

Even Atkins diet knuckleheads back in the day had enough good sense to use to keep a can of Benefiber to sprinkle on their food. What are you guys doing? Shitting cinderblocks out your asses? Or poorly digested slop ignoring your absorption issues? Show some blood work if you are so certain of yourselves. What are your energy levels like? You could not do anything stenuous like this for too long. Once your body is chronically fatigue because it chews on your fat stores for carb like energy, what else is left? Why can't you guys be sensible and eat carbs responsibly? Fork control?

Get off the hamster wheel fellas.

The whole discussion went off the rails with the rise of all the paleo talk back whenever that started.

Sometimes I go back and try to find guys like Dean Ornish and T. Colin Campbell to see what they have to say about the shift from limited fat mostly vegetarian diets to the current trend of slamming great gobs of fat and bloody meat into what was supposed to be a piehole, and I can't even find them.

They have been shouted down by the Red Meat tsunami of bloggers and journalists and dudes with bulgy veins in their foreheads who spout off.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out one day that the meatmeatmeatfatfatfat bullhorn turns out to be manned by industry types who don't want people eating mostly veggies, fruits, legumes, some meat and some fish.

In other words, I don't think the problem is that guys on this forum specifically are hamstering, I think that an entire hamster bait public relations machine has been moving in the background for some years now playing to a man's need to feel masculine and beastly and tossing a whole bunch of nonscience out into the public sphere and crowding everything else out by its sheer volume.

Get out of town with that omnivore stuff, it's for wimpy boomer hippies.

We are all birds of prey now, and don't care who knows it.

[Duke Main]

(07-16-2018 12:02 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(07-16-2018 09:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Some of the posts in this thread are baffling. Guys you are aware that men are omnivores correct? All this Carnivore stuff sounds like male hamster versions of the Atkins diet. Hannibal's post should be a warning. Atkins died of a heart disease or heart attack right? Jack La Lanne lived to 96 and ran on clean fuel. He wasn't a vegetarian either. Ate fish and other cleaner meat.

One of the benefits men can have on such a varied diet allows us to be apex predators at the top of the food chain like Brown/Grizzly Bears. They are omnivores too. If almost all the deer in the forest had a stroke and died, they won't starve. Pandas on the other hand, if the Chinese cut down most of the bamboo, they would starve to death very quickly.

If you think certain cultures eating only or mostly meat are eating the same things you eat, such as grain fed cows full of arthritis, cortisol, adrenaline, hormones, and other assorted chemical cocktails, you are fooling yourselves badly. The difference in chickens running around my wife's hometown and the ones back home in the US, might as well be a different species. Their's are skinny as fuck, tougher, they run wild and eat crickets, and have a much different flavor. Sometimes I want a huge juicy chicken breast in China, but when I think about the water and phosphates they stuff into these caged up chickens, along with injections, I snap out of my pout.

You guys are not eating ostrich. You are not eating venison. You are not eating seal meat. You probably are eating farm raised salmon, instead of wild caught, which is a god damned joke. You are eating heavily produced beef and chicken/eggs, thinking you are doing something good when you are not. How are you going to stay regular? Human stomachs cannot push shit out like a Siberian Tiger! You need fibrous materials to keep your colon from getting too dirty begging for cancer. Even dogs sometimes have to eat grass to help themselves out in that department. For you atheist types out there, you think your evolutionary progress is the same as a dog's?

Even Atkins diet knuckleheads back in the day had enough good sense to use to keep a can of Benefiber to sprinkle on their food. What are you guys doing? Shitting cinderblocks out your asses? Or poorly digested slop ignoring your absorption issues? Show some blood work if you are so certain of yourselves. What are your energy levels like? You could not do anything stenuous like this for too long. Once your body is chronically fatigue because it chews on your fat stores for carb like energy, what else is left? Why can't you guys be sensible and eat carbs responsibly? Fork control?

Get off the hamster wheel fellas.

The whole discussion went off the rails with the rise of all the paleo talk back whenever that started.

Sometimes I go back and try to find guys like Dean Ornish and T. Colin Campbell to see what they have to say about the shift from limited fat mostly vegetarian diets to the current trend of slamming great gobs of fat and bloody meat into what was supposed to be a piehole, and I can't even find them.

They have been shouted down by the Red Meat tsunami of bloggers and journalists and dudes with bulgy veins in their foreheads who spout off.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out one day that the meatmeatmeatfatfatfat bullhorn turns out to be manned by industry types who don't want people eating mostly veggies, fruits, legumes, some meat and some fish.

In other words, I don't think the problem is that guys on this forum specifically are hamstering, I think that an entire hamster bait public relations machine has been moving in the background for some years now playing to a man's need to feel masculine and beastly and tossing a whole bunch of nonscience out into the public sphere and crowding everything else out by its sheer volume.

Get out of town with that omnivore stuff, it's for wimpy boomer hippies.

We are all birds of prey now, and don't care who knows it.

There's plenty of nonscience being tossed by ideologues on all sides, but that doesn't mean there's no real science on the side of meat eaters. I doubt a meat only diet is optimal for the vast majority of humans, but I believe that although it's an extreme case, there's science to support the benefits seen by Jordan Peterson and his daughter. There's a legitimate debate to be had but it's no wonder mainstream "food pyramid" apologists are being ignored; the results have been catastrophic and big pharm and big ag control the money to fund way too much of the "science" we've been exposed to for the last 50+ years.

[MOVSM]

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

This same doctor that lost his license? The same one that found him self diabetic after eating only meat for one year?

Alright, you got me. This guy due to his incompetence probably ate too much meat, which was turned into glucose via gluconeogenesis, and he gave himself diabetes. Everything he did is null and void.

Let's move on to more competent people:

Quote:

PROLONGED MEAT DIETS WITH A STUDY OF KIDNEY FUNCTION AND KETOSIS.
BY WALTER S. MCCLELLAN AND EUGENE F. Du BOIS.
(From the Russell Sage Institute of Pathology in Affiliation with the Second Medical (Cornell) Division of Bellevue Hospital, New York.)
(Received for publication, February 13, 1930.)

[Dr. Vilhjalmur Stefansson and his expedition member Andersen] volunteered to live solely on meat for one year, which gave us an unusual opportunity of studying the effects of this diet. The term “meat,” as used by us, included both the lean and the fat portions of animals. The subjects derived most of their calories from fat and the diet was quite different from what one, who uses the term “meat” as including chiefly lean muscle, would expect.
It is well known that the Eskimos have lived on an almost exclusive meat diet for generat.ions. Certain explorers in the North also have subsisted for long periods on meat. Dr. Vilhjalmur Stefansson in particular has demonstrated that it is feasible for travelers in the arctic region to “live off the country,” which means living on meat alone. The experiences of Stefansson and his companions have been given in his book “The Friendly Arctic” (2). He spent over 11 years in arctic exploration, during 9 years of which he lived almost exclusively on meat. Stimulated by this experience, Stefansson and Andersen, the latter a member of one of the expeditions, voluntarily agreed to eat nothing but meat for 1 year while they continued their usual activities in the temperate climate of New York.

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Again, what are those natives eating? It isn't a farm raised animal doped up on injections or eating grain to get fat so that the cuts weigh more and sell higher.

Inuit ate seal, whale, clams, fish, fowl (seasonally).
Mongols survived chiefly on their horses and horse milk products, sometimes goats and deer.
Siberian pastoralists herd reindeer.
Masai have their cows.
Plains Indians--buffalo and deer.

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

What about the external factors? They are outside in sunlight getting plenty vitamin D, while you sit inside arguing online with me. What about nuts, grains, mushrooms, herbs, etc.?

Animal flesh is an excellent source of vitamin D. 30 oz of beef has 420 IUs. Well within dietary recommendations. Fish has more.
Beef spleen is rich in vitamin C, so you can avoid scurvy.

Vegetable matter is outside of the scope of this experiment and discussion.

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

That 5000+ year old mummy man they defrosted this week had a stomach full of vegetation stuff and herbs to go along with goat meat and fat.

Those people that likely built Gobekli Tepe are messing up the narrative of hunter gather theory lately. I bet they did not eat only meat.

They are not part of the meat-only eating populations described above.

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I have read a few books on anthropology and prehistory stuff, and I am no stretch of the imagination an expert, but American Indians knew how to tell when stuff like almonds were poisonous as well as strawberries. They did not always eat just meat, otherwise how could they pass down that knowledge to the younger generations? They were responsible with the buffalo and meat sources and did not over hunt. Even Alaska has berries in those cold areas.

Which Indians? I'm talking specifically Plains Indians such as Sioux, who were on the meat diet. Indians which were conquered by them were not.
You can also include the Indians of the Pacific North West, who lived primarily on salmon and oolichan fat.

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

A tribe eating tarantulas likely means that exoskeleton is pushing other shit out their intestine like a fiber. Not everything is digestible and can serve purposes that they probably cannot explain either.

A tribe eating tarantulas are not part of the meat-only eating populations described above.

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

We can observe all day long, but where is the hard science at?

Here: http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

We do not have the stomach acid of a hyena or a vulture bro.

And that's why we don't eat rotten and diseased meat.

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Also, did he or anyone else bother to blood test those people they watch?

This article has a blood report: https://www.onnit.com/academy/the-carnivore-diet/

(07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Anyone have gout or or stones (gall or kidney)? If not, what's the point? Even the scientist guy (name eludes me) that studies cortisol/stress levels in Baboons blood tests them and collects all the data.

You guys need to be careful not to encourage stuff that could get someone hurt. Tachycardia is not a joke, nor is being diabetic and not on medication or solutions to get rid of pre-diabetes.

This smells an awful lot like concern trolling. Not to mention being outside of the discussion scope.
But here is a treatise on gout: Gout – The Missing Chapter From GCBC – by Gary Taubes


We are, after all, discussing the results of two people's (Jordan Peterson's and his daughter's) month-long experiment. No one is encouraging anything, not even Jordan Peterson himself.
This diet certainly seems plausible, given the earlier study, and the experiences of several native tribes throughout the world, as well as the several points of empirical evidence that cares not for your preconceived hypothesis.

I, and the rest of the members on this thread would very much like to see a full-blown medical study. Given the amount of anti-male propaganda that proclaims "EATING MEAT PERPETUATES TOXIC MASCULINITY", and demands we eat less of it, I say good luck.

I'm honestly quite perplexed by your hostility to this experiment and the resulting discussion.