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Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet
#76

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Quote: (07-16-2018 11:45 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

This same doctor that lost his license? The same one that found him self diabetic after eating only meat for one year?




No dude. If he is diabetic he was likely diabetic before he started the meat-only diet. Diabetes takes years to develop, not 16 months. Period.

That is typical of the vegans. They present misleading information excluding the relevant facts. I'm surprised that you would use a video like that here.

The idea you can develop diabetes eating only meat is laughable.

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#77

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Bushido,
He's kinda got a point--usually the existing diabetes is reversed with low carb diets, and were this true here, his markers would not have been in the diabetic range, which they in fact were.

Certainly a lot of questions remain about this doctor, circumstances of incompetence not the least of them.

I would like to know exactly how much meat he ate, for instance. I mean, gluconeogenesis can convert only so much protein into glucose. There can certainly be enough to kick you out of ketosis, but I didn't think there would be enough to flare up diabetes...

I am afraid that women appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters all the same. They love being dominated.
--Oscar Wilde
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#78

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

^That wasn't the point being made at all. The implication was that eating meat only gave him diabetes.

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#79

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

You guys should do some reading on the differences between physiologic insulin resistance and pathologic insulin resistance (i.e; why one group is diabetic and the other group isn't despite similar fasted blood glucose - it has all to do with circulating insulin levels). This guy is not diabetic nor is he at any risk of becoming diabetic.
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#80

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Has anyone been doing this diet consistently? What have your results been?

It seems very similar to the old school steak and eggs diet for bodybuilders. I've done that before but not for an extended time.

I watched this ted talk which is related to some of the comments in this thread. There was a large study done that proved that everyone reacts differently to various diets. So a diet might be good for one person but not good for another person. Many of us assumed this but there is actually research that has also shown it. I don't necessarily recommend watching the video unless you are very interested in the topic because he doesn't say much more other than what I've already said in this paragraph.
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#81

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

3 weeks in on Monday. Feeling great, lost 4kg. My snoring has got a lot better.
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#82

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

I'm back into this for about the tenth day. I had to stop before because of travel reasons. Everything about it is great. I'll write more about it at the one month point. Give it a try and see how you feel.
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#83

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Quote: (07-16-2018 09:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

How are you going to stay regular? Human stomachs cannot push shit out like a Siberian Tiger! You need fibrous materials to keep your colon from getting too dirty begging for cancer. Even dogs sometimes have to eat grass to help themselves out in that department. For you atheist types out there, you think your evolutionary progress is the same as a dog's?

Dogs don't eat grass to stay regular, it's an evolutionary carryover from wolves, who ate long fibrous strands of grass to wrap around and clear themselves of intestinal parasites.

Here's a heuristic for you. Babies eat nothing but (ideally) breast milk, which is a diet that has zero fiber. Do they not take shits regularly?

Interestingly enough, babies will refuse all food except for milk and meat. If you switch them from breast milk to formula they often get mad because soy based formula can rapidly cause constipation.

I've tried diets like the carnivore diet before. If you eat enough fat, you will stay regular without a problem. You may even find fiber to cause constipation after switching back, whether of the soluble or insoluble type. I rarely eat fiber now (it's basically meat, butter, rice, and milk) and have no problem taking shits regularly.

A number of people I know who are big on the 'healthy whole grain' kick (usually due to gut health problems) have hemorrhoids because they punish their assholes with way too much fiber. Doctors usually scratch their heads and call that sort of thing "chronic idiopathic constipation" and find that a zero fiber diet cures them of constipation. One size doesn't fit all here but I've never heard of anybody being constipated on a diet higher in fat.
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#84

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

I know a lot of people have had success with this but read your body. I tried to do this and did lose weight. But I was on the damn toilet so much I think I shit my soul outta me. The same reason I can't do this is the same reason I can't do keto. I have to have some carbs in me. Doesn't have to be tons but I can't have almost none.
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#85

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

It's possible that you just didn't try it for long enough. There is an adjustment phase. For me it's only a few days, but it could be longer for others.
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#86

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

After reviewing all the food that I ate, I concluded that the dinner that fucked me up was a three pound roast that my girlfriend made.

I asked her where she got it from and she said "Walmart". Turns out they marinate all their meat in a saline solution, so it's likely that all that salt messed up my electrolyte levels - not a huge problem on a carb heavy diet but definitely a problem on a zero carb one.

In conclusion, if/when I give this another go, I'm going to sponsor my local butcher and no one else and I'll take it easy in and out the gym for the first month.

In response to the Shawn Baker guy, it is likely that he eats too much lean and not enough fat. The carnivore diet is primarily a fat eating diet - you eat fat from the start and finish your dinner with fatty cuts of meat until you're full.

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#87

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

So basically he was a fat fuck, quit eating carbs, lost a bunch of weight and now the carnivore diet cures everything.
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#88

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

It's not only about weight loss. And nobody claims it cures everything. But it's an interesting experiment, and I and many others have found it to be beneficial.
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#89

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

When I was keto, I was pretty much 'steak and eggs' Or 'pork belly and eggs'. Once thing I noticed was that my shit became far less regular, but when I needed to go it was no trouble and came out like sheep shit. Small clusters of lumps, no need to wipe.

When I ate mainly hearty stews, I was using forests worth of bog paper.

Recently (last few months) I've been mainly pesketarian out of convenience- you don't get much more convenient than tinned fish. Lost quite a bit of fat with tinned fish stiry frys and felt pretty good. More regular but good clean shits. The stir frys were mainly a method of eating shit tons of volume whilst remaining in a deficit. However, I've been off the wagon for a couple of weeks on holidy. So for shits and gigle (pun intended) I might have another go at steak and eggs for a month.

I'm not convinced about cutting dark green leafy veg and brassicas out completely- tons of health benefits in those.

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety- Benjamin Franklin, as if you didn't know...
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#90

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

I'm a few days away from completing one month of the carnivore diet.

(Wanted to wait until the full month was in, but I'll be traveling soon and won't have time to write up a longer post.)

I've been hardcore paleo the last six years, so transitioning to the carnivore diet wasn't that difficult, and my experience the last four weeks has been consistent enough to where I feel like a few more days/weeks probably won't drastically change my results.

Some background:

-Late twenties

-Went from shitty standard american diet to paleo in 2012: mostly grass-fed/wild caught/pastured meat/fish/fowl/eggs, lots of vegetables, healthy fats like avocado/coconut/olive/macadamia, small amounts of fruits, nuts, minor vices like extremely dark chocolate or half a teaspoon of honey in my green tea

-Rarely drink (maybe one glass of red wine a week at most); will have a cigar once in a blue moon but don't smoke

-Extremely active; heavy lifting every other day, swim laps or do yoga on "rest" days

-Intermittent fast every day (break my fast at 4pm, eat until ~11), 36 hour fast once or twice a month prior to a solid lifting session

-Consistent high-quality sleep; I work for myself and for the last several years have woken up without an alarm just based on my circadian rhythm

-I get a solid 40 minutes of bright sunlight each day on my walks to and from the gym (often more, but that's my daily minimum)

-My emotional and spiritual life seems quite balanced. I have loving friends and family, my game is good enough to keep a consistent fuck buddy or two around, I have a solid career path/plan for the future, and generally am quite content with both my life's planned trajectory and current position.

Peterson was definitely the motivation for giving carnivory a shot. Part of my takeaway from Maps of Meaning was the value inherent in not becoming too attached to a belief system. I spent the first two decades of my life thinking whole grains were good and fat was bad; who's to say my current beliefs, like fiber is necessary for proper bowel movements or vegetables are an essential dietary component, aren't flawed as well?

I also believe that personal genetics determine a large part of an individual's proper diet, and that while you can make generalities based on humanity's evolutionary history, personal ancestral legacy is an important consideration.

For example, if your ancestors were Dutch and domesticated cattle thousands of years ago, you may be more genetically adapted towards lactose digestion - the same can't be said for most Africans or Japanese, the majority of whom remain lactose intolerant.

Given the range of human biodiversity, it seems to me empirical experimentation is the best way for individuals today to sort out for themselves a diet that will work for them.

So, for the last four weeks I've consumed only meat, fish, fowl, eggs, and small amounts of butter and cream (the former used in cooking and the latter in my daily egg coffee). I spared no expense in making sure I had the highest quality meat, so everything was grass-fed, pastured, wild-caught, etc. I aimed for fatty cuts when possible and the majority of the fish I ate was canned tuna/sardines in olive oil (which I didn't drink, but thought I'd mention for completeness's sake).

My major takeaways:

-I feel just as good (perhaps slightly better) on the carnivore diet as I did on a varied paleo/omnivore diet.

I had no health problems whatsoever prior to going carnivore; all minor issues (random assorted headaches, heartburn, aches & pains, acne, etc.) immediately went away when I initially went paleo and cut out grains, legumes, vegetable oils, sugar, etc. So I wasn't expecting much of a change on carnivory.

Energy levels, sleep quality, sexual appetite, mood/enthusiasm, cognitive function, workout intensity, skin/hair/nail quality...they all continue to function at the high levels they were at prior to going all-meat.

My dreams have become a bit more vivid (although I started a dream journal two weeks ago so it could be that I'm simply remembering them better now), and I find my energy levels a bit more stable than before - but I would attribute that more to the ketosis than the meat specifically.

The usual post-meal crash I used to experience after a big sandwich or bowl of pasta disappeared once I cut out the carbs, and my energy levels remain just as constant after an omelet filled with cheese and avocado as they do with a large ribeye. I only ever get that post-meal nap craving when I happen to consume too many carbs.

Workout intensity may have suffered a small bit, but again, I attribute that more to keto than carnivory. If I eat a bowl of rice three hours before lifting I'll definitely have more energy, but I'm not into super-crazy crossfit stuff and prefer remaining in or close to ketosis whenever possible. Slightly better workouts, to me, aren't worth the high-low yo-yoing that comes along with carb intake (although if I felt like paying closer attention to my macros I could probably get back into a nice LeanGains-style carb eating schedule).

I've lost a noticeable amount of body fat (went from about 10% to 6-7% - enough for my girl to comment on it), but again, that's probably more related to zero-carb/ketosis than something unique to meat. I wasn't eating a ton of carbs on the paleo diet, but I'd occasionally have a bowl of blueberries for dessert, a sweet potato with my steak, or a few squares of 80% dark chocolate while watching a movie...I'd expect a similar fat loss after cutting carbs even if I was eating cheese or avocado along with meat.

-My daily juicing habit, in hindsight, seems superfluous.

For the last three years I've been juicing daily (always vegetables, never fruit). I have a unique living situation where I don't always have access to a kitchen, so I'd focus on consuming my meat/protein throughout the day and then juice a bunch of vegetables at night to make up for not being able to eat any. My go-to was carrot/beet/celery/kale/ginger/turmeric, with a small lemon to make it palatable.

Like I mentioned above, I feel just as good after four weeks of no juicing as I did juicing every day. I don't see myself continuing the habit, as it costs me ~$5/juice and takes up a few hours each week (between grocery store runs, the juicing itself, and machine cleanup).

In a similar vein, I also won't feel so guilty if I neglect to eat any vegetables on a particular day. I certainly enjoy the experience of eating brussels sprouts and bacon, spinach sauteed in butter, roast broccoli covered in parmesan, etc, but if I'm traveling or busy or just don't feel like cooking I won't feel like I'm missing the mark.

It seems that as long as I eat enough high-quality protein, I'll get the necessary vitamins/minerals/etc. and that additional plant matter is unnecessary/overkill.

-While the first week required some digestive readjustment, overall my bowel movements have been less frequent and consistently cleaner, with zero constipation.

I did experience several bouts of diarrhea the first week, which is apparently rather common when transitioning to the carnivore diet. I suspect this was a result of all my vegetable- or fiber-dependent gut flora dying off and being excreted (interestingly enough, dead bacteria account for more than half of your total fecal matter).

After that first week I started having bowel movements only every two or three days (even after my usual strong cup of coffee each morning), and they were small but firm and easily excreted.

(I think it was Dr. Shawn Baker in his Rogan podcast who theorized that a proper, evolutionarily-adapted diet provides for these sorts of BMs - picture your dog dropping a solid turd and walking away with a clean asshole versus getting nasty wet shit stuck in its fur. Animals eating an improper diet would be that much more exposed to disease and would require more energy dedicated to grooming, a non-ideal situation to be in. It makes sense to me that if you're dumping nasty shits every day, or pushing and heaving to the point of hemorrhoids, that something is off with your diet.)

Contrary to what most people might say ("Aren't you constipated all the time? How can you poop without fiber?"), I felt MUCH better after eating 1-1.5 pounds of meat in one sitting that I did eating meat and lots of vegetables. Because your body absorbs nearly all the animal matter, there's not much left to pass through.

One of my pet peeves related to intermittent fasting was the protracted stomach ("food baby") I'd have after eating my first meal (often 1,500-2,000 calories' worth). While there's still a bit of distention after eating two pounds of ground beef, I've noticed my stomach slims back to normal MUCH quicker than when it has to also handle a head of cauliflower or bowl of berries. In the future, if I'm eating dinner with (or prior to seeing) a girl, it will probably be meat-only (or at least, veggie-minimized) in an effort to look as good as possible once I'm naked a few hours later.

I also just really enjoy that "empty" feeling of intermittent fasting, and carnivory seems to help me get back to that feeling much faster than when I'm packing my gut with a bunch of stuff it can't digest and is forced to process, store, and then excrete 6-12 hours later.

-Carnivory is an exceedingly efficient lifestyle for an individual, but it has its drawbacks, primarily its monotony and lack of social scalability.

Reducing my grocery list to a handful of proteins (and eliminating the sauces, spices, oils, and other complementary groceries required for more varied dishes) saves me a good chunk of time and money, makes for easier/simpler cooking, and reduces the amount of dishware usage and cleanup.

Travelling is a breeze, as I simply fast all day and then down a porterhouse, or if I can't find a steakhouse most diners will serve omelets, bacon and eggs, or some sort of grilled chicken/fish. It's also easy and convenient to pack items like canned fish, beef/salmon jerky, pork rinds, bone broth, or hard-boiled eggs that are calorie-dense and easily prepared.

While I don't find myself hungry or craving non-meat foods while alone at home, it's difficult to go out with friends - not just because of my limited options, but also because watching other people eat a delicious variety becomes frustrating when you're dealing with the same foods day in and day out.

It's primarily for that reason I plan on going back to being an omnivore once I wrap up my thirty days. I miss coconut and avocado; salads with nuts and berries; dark chocolate and red wine; putting cheese on everything; and just sampling the variety of delicious foods life has to offer in general.

That being said, I definitely will be incorporating aspects of carnivory into my diet going forward. Meat will go from being ~70% of my diet to 90+%, and I probably won't buy much else to eat when I'm by myself at home - vegetables will likely be a treat to be experienced when they happen to come alongside my restaurant meals. Fruit will become even scarcer than before, as I've found even small amounts of carbs kick me out of ketosis and mess with my newly constant energy levels.

For those on the fence, I highly recommend trying the carnivore diet. Make sure the rest of your life is in order - you won't be able to properly determine its effects if you're missing sleep, drinking a bottle of wine every night, or not getting any vitamin D.

And if you're coming from a carb-heavy diet, or something closer to the standard American diet, I'd recommend easing into it by moving towards something like the paleo diet first. Cut out everything but meat, healthy fats and (certain) plants, then once you're fat-adapted and weaned off sugar cut out the plants too.

Happy to answer questions if anyone here has them.
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#91

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

I am going to try this out and report back.

Background: I did a "paleo-only" diet a few years back, and felt great. Over time, I allowed myself a cheat day here, cheat day there, and fell back into the general "eat everything" diet.

Lately though, sugar has been making me sick, especially a combination of a capuccino and some pastry or cake, and I found myself super tired after lunch or dinner every time. Something like a large pizza would basically render me unable to do anything useful for the rest of the day, tired and swollen.

I was thinking of going back to paleo when I discovered this carnivore thing. It's intriguing. And eating meat can be very satisfying in this primal way, especially if it comes with bone and marrow.

For now it's meat plus eggs plus some cheese, and coffee during the day, and wine in the evening, so I don't know if that counts or how much.

I find the logistics of this the biggest challenge. Finding grass-fed, free-range source of meat in a country where this is not readily available in stores (I have to buy direct from farmers or on farmers markets). Feeding myself while on the road (I travel for business 1-3 days a week). Finding and trying out recipes such that I don't get bored with the same old stuff (but this is true for any diet).
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#92

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

You don't need fancy meat. Read the material more - no one recommends it. The Zero Carb mantra is eat the meat you like and can afford.

I've been doing this just about 2 months now. I feel better than I have in a long time. I'm sleeping great and requiring less sleep. My snoring is greatly reduced. I've lost 7kg. I'm not a huge dude, so when I lose another 8ish I'll be back at the weight I was when I was 17 and in boot camp. As long as I'm not hungry I don't feel the urge to cheat.

My wife is doing this as well (although less faithfully) and she's back down to her high school weight. She was never fat but loves the bragging rights and now has all of her friends asking her about weight loss.

I don't have any low energy points during the day. I get up at 7 when my boy does and feel good with constant energy levels until it's time to sleep.

I have cheated once when I had two of the nice Quebecois beer I have in my pantry. Didn't have much of an effect - I went back up 2kg the next day and then it dropped back off quickly enough.

I am not hardcore zero carb. I eat meat, cheese and eggs. I have coffee in the morning (with butter in it). It's still working damn well.

This shit works, yo.
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#93

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Some guys on this thread started the carnivore diet. Curious to see what pros/cons you have have noticed several months in or have you stopped now?
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#94

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Quote: (12-13-2018 06:00 AM)BB1 Wrote:  

Some guys on this thread started the carnivore diet. Curious to see what pros/cons you have have noticed several months in or have you stopped now?

Since my 30-day experiment described above, I've settled into a nice rhythm where I'm a carnivore by myself but an omnivore with others.

Like I mentioned in my post, what stood out the most from my 30-day carnivore experiment was how nothing really changed. Energy levels, sleep quality, sexual appetite, workout performance, ability to focus...virtually unchanged from when I would juice five pounds of vegetables every night or have a big ass salad for lunch.

(Granted, I transitioned to carnivory from six years of hardcore paleo dieting, so if you're coming from e.g. a carb-heavy standard American-esque diet YMMV.)

And while I enjoy the bountiful variety of tasty sensations nature has to offer, most of the time I'm more concerned with fueling my body and getting back to the grind than constantly dedicating time/money/energy to cooking. It's generally cheaper/easier/faster to cook a steak, fry a few eggs, or grab a roast chicken than to prepare multiple dishes involving lots of ingredients.

So when I'm working from home by myself all week I just eat meat. But it gets tricky trying to be a carnivore when friends want to go out, so unless we're getting BBQ or going to a steakhouse I revert back to paleo. I won't eat the bread or have dessert (and I rarely drink more than a glass of wine here and there), but if the steak comes with broccoli and a sweet potato I'll gladly enjoy the sides. And I will admit, it's nice to enjoy stir fries, curries, things where you can't really separate the vegetables from the dish itself.

I probably eat three or four meals a week now with fruits/vegetables/nuts and again haven't experienced any major changes in the variables listed above. I don't think vegetables are bad for you, but if you're eating high-quality meat I just don't think they're necessary.

The key as always seems to be eliminating the bad stuff: sugar, grains, vegetable oils, legumes, dairy/lactose, preservatives, excess alcohol, etc. Most of your health gains will come from avoiding those foods, lifting weights, and getting a good night's sleep. Everything else seems to be toying with the margins.
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#95

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

I started a strict carnivore diet about 10 days ago.

Some background:

1. I have an autoimune disease that causes my joints in my spine and hips to become inflamed. I took a daily pill of NAISD (like aleve) to manage this.

2. Starting this year in addition to the joint pain which is basicly chronic roumatoid arthritis o started to have inflamation in my right eye that caused blurry vision. I also started to have issues with mental health. I started to feel depressed which is umheard of for me. Ive been through alot of shit in my life amd always stayed positive even in the wlrst of times.

3. Im 36 years old and starting to have difficulty with keeping weight off my belly and chest. I used to be a very ripped guy but now as I have gotten older things have become more difficult to maintain at the same level.

10 Day results:

1.I have conpletely quit my medication for inflamation
2.my blurry vision in my right eye is back to normal.
3.my depression has comlletely lifted.
4.ive been working out way more intensely at BJJ and my lifting has improved.
5. My libido has improved
6.ive noticed a slight decrease in fat on my mid section.
7.i am sleeping deeper amd waking more rested


I have been eating only Deer Meat, organic Eggs, Raw Goats Milk, Bacon, Liver, Herring, organic chicken. I have an advantage when sourcing my food as here in Estonia i buy directly from local farmers and the price is less than grocery store shit.

Ill report back as time goes on. For now i think that these results in such a short time cant be overlooked.

This diet requires a different mindset approach to food. Food is fuel not entertainment. Also, i get alot of criticism from folks and I ignore them and eat my steak.

I feel infuckingredible!!!
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#96

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Iconoclast those are really dramatics improvementrs!!!
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#97

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

I have been fighting with my disease for years with no real solutions. I have just soldiered on and become one with the pain. The relief I feel now after so many years cannot be put into words.

I was not eating poorly before. My diet was balanced. It appears my body rejects plants and any food that isnt meat. It seems counterintuitive but it is the truth.
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#98

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

When I went on a diet years ago, I lost 60 pounds by using well known calorie counting techniques. All well-known information. I supplemented with vitamins and made sure to get enough protein every day. Other than that, I ate a balanced diet. But that will never sell. People only pay attention when you have a gimmick and do something that sounds extreme. Shove meat up your nose, or don't eat meat at all. That will work.

Rico... Sauve....
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#99

Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

Thats interesting Sherman. Have you ever tried carnivore? I have, it works for me. Ive also tried alot of other things like paleo, keto etc

Ive never experienced the relief like i do from eating only meat and animal products. I higly reccomend thjs diet for anyone that suffers from Automimune disease. .
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Jordan Peterson and the carnivore diet

I've been ZC since November of 2017. If you are curious about my diet, ask me.
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