[Matsufubu]

(10-06-2017 11:34 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(10-05-2017 03:11 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

If I want to partake in a union sealed by God himself then I will play by His rules, not the lower impulse rules of man.

The problem is that most women don't like to play by anyone's rules. And they're rewarded with cash and prizes if they decide to end the marriage. I know a ton of "good christian girls" who ended their marriage for very superficial reasons...but it all boiled down to being bored and expecting a husband to provide constant entertainment.

You are right, society nowadays encourages women to Eat, Pray, Love for cash and prizes. My own mother always told me that we are all "men and women first and Christian second", so I'm under no illusions. There is no surefire way to 100% guarantee faithfulness other than being picky. MGTOW is not an option, and as I said before, banging sluts until you die is no good for you or civilisation, just read the Hugh Hefner thread to see what I mean.

I'm not an old man, but she and I have been together 15 years. Now I haven't had her under surveillance 24/7 for all that time so in theory anything is possible, but there's nothing to indicate she's cheated or even had a wandering eye. I'll just share a few things I've thought and learned for what it's worth to you guys:

1. Alpha fux, beta bux: Why not both? Yes, really. I've always been ZFG, a bit aloof, a bit of a jerk, tease her with rampant sexism, but also look after the family on my one income (though she does work part time around the kids). We're not rolling in it, my income is sensible but enough to have nice things without any of that 'Real Housewives of X' bullshit that seems to ruin women.

2. Caveman in the bedroom, gentleman outside the bedroom. The male version of 'lady in the living room, whore in the bedroom'. It works. Our brains are still operating in stone age times and respond to those stimuli. Alpha fux, literally. It doesn't have to be that way every time, but it does the first time, and every once in a while after that to let her know who's boss.

3. Women don't want to be with an equal, they are hypergamous so want someone to look up to and feel lucky to be with, without it being such a gap that she feels hopelessly insecure. DO NOT LISTEN to her waffle about equality, independence, yadda yadda yadda...it's a shit test.

4. Do not put her on a pedestal, or she'll get too comfortable and think she's too good for you and go looking. She may control sex - your short term prize - but you control commitment - her long term prize One is worth more than the other, remember that.

5. Make sure you tease her about stuff. It lets her know you don't worship her and keeps her on her toes.

6. Argue about the small stuff, stupid stuff. It feeds her need for minor drama without her looking for arguments about big stuff.

7. Don't leap straight into the relationship. We knew each other for 6 months before getting together. We were testing each other's character. She didn't screw any guys and acted like a lady the whole time, so I knew she was wife material.

8. I knew she was worthy of marriage when I was going through a tough time, and instead of doing the usual 'selfish-bitch-what-about-meeee' thing that so many other women do, she went out of her way to look after me without question.

9. We share a moral compass and value system. Diametrically opposed on interests like cars, films and hobbies, but those don't matter as long as the morals and values are in line.

10. As I said, I game other women to keep myself sharp and (mentally at least) keep my options open. Psychologically that helps me maintain frame at home and keep ZFG to keep her on her toes a bit.

11. I've frequently let her know my views on the consequences of cheating, single motherhood, the SMV, etc (anything triggering to women, really). Yes, she acts all indignant and might start mentioning 'noble' or 'honour', but I know that's just her lizard brain trying to appeal to sides of me she can't possibly understand. Basically, I'm letting her know that if she fucks up, she's on her own.

12. Be the leader. Not an arsehole, a leader. Women want to submit and be lead, no matter what they say.

That's all for now. I don't envy you young guys, as I chose well and still have to play the game, so for a market that's now 90% narcissistic sluts I really do understand why men go MGTOW or just plow through sluts and enjoy the decline.

[Dan Woolf]

(10-06-2017 04:07 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

MGTOW is not an option

For you or no one? If no one, why not?

(10-06-2017 04:07 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Alpha fux, beta bux: Why not both?

Because human female biology doesn't allow for that. Their mating strategy is dualistic, period. There's only "alpha", and "beta", and by giving her commitment and access to your finances, you become the latter in her eyes, so she starts looking for that "alpha" elsewhere.

(10-06-2017 04:07 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

you control commitment - her long term prize

Yes, right until the moment you say "I do". After that she has the control of your commitment, and can do whatever she pleases with it. Divorce settlement, alimony, child support...

(10-06-2017 04:07 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

She didn't screw any guys and acted like a lady the whole time, so I knew she was wife material.

(10-06-2017 04:07 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

I don't envy you young guys, as I chose well and still have to play the game, so for a market that's now 90% narcissistic sluts I really do understand why men go MGTOW or just plow through sluts and enjoy the decline.

So, going MGTOW or staying eternally single IS an option after all?

[Matsufubu]

@ Dan

1. Should have said "MGTOW is not an option FOR ME". Do what you want with your own life.

2. Riiight...so all women who marry despise their husbands and cheat or at least try to? It's impossible for a woman to feel glad to have married a man and not to fuck it all up by cheating? Have you been married?

3. Fuck it then, give up on women, civilisation and all of society and drop a nuke on the whole lot. The point is that marriage to you is better than the divorce settlement and child support so she doesn't cheat / detonate the marriage.

4. Not all women are sluts getting banged around the clock, there are plenty of traditionally minded women out there. You know my wife better than I do?

5. Go MGTOW if you want, stay single if you want. Your life, mate.

If you want to start every interaction with a woman with defeatist, MGTOW cynicism you will get exactly what you expect.

[Dan Woolf]

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

1. Should have said "MGTOW is not an option FOR ME". Do what you want with your own life.

Ok, that's what I thought, too.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Riiight...so all women who marry despise their husbands and cheat or at least try to?

Not all but enough of them. AWALT.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

It's impossible for a woman to feel glad to have married a man and not to fuck it all up by cheating

They CAN resist the urge to cheat if they are strong enough. But the capability to feel glad to have married a man? I'm afraid it's not there but would love to be proven wrong.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Have you been married?

No.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Fuck it then, give up on women, civilisation and all of society and drop a nuke on the whole lot.

Sure. I don't give a fuck about the society. I'm not going to try to "fix it" by entering a contract that has only downsides for me.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Not all women are sluts getting banged around the clock

Of course not. But there are options between "getting banged around the clock" and "being a chaste virgin". AWALT.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

there are plenty of traditionally minded women out there

Women can't really be traditionally minded. AWALT.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

You know my wife better than I do?

No. And I can see your need to believe in unicorns for the sake of your marriage so I will not prod further.

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Go MGTOW if you want, stay single if you want. Your life, mate.

Cheers!

(10-06-2017 04:42 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

If you want to start every interaction with a woman with defeatist, MGTOW cynicism you will get exactly what you expect.

Now you are just strawmanning.

[Matsufubu]

Quote:

Not all but enough of them. AWALT.

Regarding AWALT: Yes, to a degree. Women (and men) are a product of their environment and will slide into their worst selves if allowed and encouraged to. I'd say All Women Can Be Like That rather than they are all like that. You can be a rapist or a murderer, but you aren't because of your upbringing, environment, instilled morality, influence from elders, etc.

Quote:

They CAN resist the urge to cheat if they are strong enough. But the capability to feel glad to have married a man? I'm afraid it's not there but would love to be proven wrong.

Well I agree that society encourages them to place too much importance on the day and not on the long term commitment, but I don't know what qualifies you to make this statement. You are essentially saying that all married women are unhappy. To a beta schlub? Yes, absolutely, but not all married men are beta schlubs.

Quote:

Sure. I don't give a fuck about the society. I'm not going to try to "fix it" by entering a contract that has only downsides for me.

This society exists largely in part to what marriage provided to men and women, and civilisation by extension. This society that you don't give a fuck about benefits you greatly, even if it is being dismantled by the powers that be. I do not blame you for reacting to a stimulus. If you think I'm saying that all men should just 'man up' and get married to any old slut, you are misconstruing what I have written.

Quote:

Of course not. But there are options between "getting banged around the clock" and "being a chaste virgin". AWALT.

Yes, I know...

Quote:

Women can't really be traditionally minded. AWALT.

Based on?

Quote:

No. And I can see your need to believe in unicorns for the sake of your marriage so I will not prod further.

I am a realist, not a defeatist. I'm not going to simply assume that my wife is a cheating whore out to ruin my life when all the evidence is to the contrary. I also do not believe she is a perfect angel. Read what I wrote for goodness sake. I'm not some love struck fool with my head in the clouds just because I'm not MGTOW. I'm in my late 30's and have experienced the worst that women have to offer, but I am not going to assume that all women are as bad as the worst that I have found if they act completely differently. Read what I wrote: in summary, it's screen the woman to eliminate the sluts, ZFG, and be alpha in the relationship. If you have not been married and I am, who are you to insult and judge people you have never met? Statistics are statistics, I'm trying in to help men who want marriage and children to avoid becoming one.

Quote:

Now you are just strawmanning.

Your post is MGTOW 101. I have sympathies with it but it is negative and defeatist.

[Dan Woolf]

(10-06-2017 06:47 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Based on?

Biology.

(10-06-2017 06:47 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

I am a realist, not a defeatist.

When it comes to women and marriage in the West nowadays, those two terms are interchangeable.

(10-06-2017 06:47 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

I'm not going to simply assume that my wife is a cheating whore out to ruin my life when all the evidence is to the contrary. I also do not believe she is a perfect angel. Read what I wrote for goodness sake. I'm not some love struck fool with my head in the clouds just because I'm not MGTOW. I'm in my late 30's and have experienced the worst that women have to offer, but I am not going to assume that all women are as bad as the worst that I have found if they act completely differently. Read what I wrote: in summary, it's screen the woman to eliminate the sluts, ZFG, and be alpha in the relationship.

Again, unicorns and NAWALT. It was evident from the first post of yours that I replied to.

"I can be both alpha fucks and beta bucks!"

"I chose the right woman."

"She didn't fuck any other guys while we dated for 6 months, I just know it."

And you are constantly jumping to extremities to discredit my arguments. "Hey Dan, you said that my wife is a cheating whore out to ruin my life, and that I believe that she is a perfect angel, and that I'm a some love struck fool with my head in the clouds because I don't practice the negative and defeatist religion called MGTOW". No, I'm just saying that even though not all guns are loaded, you should handle each of them as if they are.

Also, marriage is a social construction. It's not natural for humans to be monogamous. The marriage contract HAS TO be socially, culturally, politically and legally enforced. Nowadays it isn't so, and you can screen for sluts, ZFG and be as alpha as you like, but you won't have the power in the relationship. I don't think any man goes into marriage thinking "this woman is a hypergamous slut to the core, and will cheat on me with copious amounts of guys before finally divorcing me, taking a huge chunk of my assets, and my kids, and forcing me to pay child support, and alimony unless I want to end up in jail". They say that they just picked the right woman, became her leader, and everything went great... until the day the hammer dropped.

(10-06-2017 06:47 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

If you have not been married and I am, who are you to insult and judge people you have never met?

I'm not trying to insult or judge you but it's very telling that you feel that I am. Also, I don't have to be married or divorced to know that getting married or even cohabitating in the West is not a good idea for men these days.

(10-06-2017 06:47 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Your post is MGTOW 101. I have sympathies with it but it is negative and defeatist.

I don't identify as a MGTOW or whatever the fuck. And sure, my point of view might be seen as negative and defeatist, but your point of view is idealistic. I have taken my pick.

[Lunostrelki]

I think it's clear that women can be traditionally-minded, either by their rare individual wisdom (I think these would be the unicorns) or social and environmental conditioning (slut-shaming, the physical reality of male vs female strength, etc).

To guys growing up in our present society, it might be difficult to fathom just how different the average women of today are compared with those 100 or just 50 years ago, let alone in ancient antiquity. AWALT may apply, but it was always kept in check by the fact that not only did women have scant authority over grown men, they found their domestic roles natural and desirable.

There is some truth to AWALT in the same sense that there is some truth to its "all men are rapists" counterpart—if you make it acceptable or normal for either women or men escape civilized moral restraints, you will end up with social degeneration and violence (For something of a counterexample to the West, a look at hardcore Islamic law is instructive). It is simply the case that women are as a group incapable of building a social environment that fosters said morality; it is up to men to construct and maintain it.

[Matsufubu]

Nothing that I wrote is idealistic just because it's not negative. Your initial post is a knee jerk reaction to the concept of marriage and you seem to think that I am advocating for marriage for all men at all costs. My posts were directed to those that are, or want to be married. I don't need reminding of the difference between biology and social and cultural conditioning, as was the basis of my posts. As for insulting me, posting a snarky gif about my wife fucking around IS insulting since you know nothing of her, as is responding to me with further snark and sarcasm. You do not know what you're talking about when it comes to being in a marriage, and since you've successfully shitted up the thread I suggest taking it to PM if you wish to continue - which frankly I don't since it's clearly going nowhere.

[Dan Woolf]

(10-07-2017 07:12 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

As for insulting me, posting a snarky gif about my wife fucking around IS insulting since you know nothing of her, as is responding to me with further snark and sarcasm. You do not know what you're talking about when it comes to being in a marriage, and since you've successfully shitted up the thread I suggest taking it to PM if you wish to continue - which frankly I don't since it's clearly going nowhere.

I've been perfectly calm and I've presented my arguments to the best of my ability. That's called a discussion and that's what tends to happen on discussion forums. It was you who talked about "dropping a nuke on women, civilisation and all of society" and other such hyperbole. Also, was "dropping a nuke on women" sarcasm or snark? And it's you who's slinking away like a woman playing victim. But sure, we can end this here. If I was more cruel, I would ask you to point out any instances of snark or sarcasm in my previous reply to you, but that would make your hamster wheel spin out of its bearings, so I'll restrain myself.

[Dan Woolf]

Women are genetically programmed to have affairs

Quote:

Women are predisposed by their genetics to have affairs as "back-up plans'" if their relationships fail, according to a research paper.

Scientists at the University of Texas say they are challenging the assumption that humans have evolved to have monogamous relationships.

The team's research has put forward the "mate-switching-hypothesis" which says humans have evolved to keep testing their relationships and looking for better long-term options.

The senior author of the research, Dr David Buss, told the Sunday Times: "Lifelong monogamy does not characterise the primary mating patterns of humans.

"Breaking up with one partner and mating with another may more accurately characterise the common, perhaps the primary, mating strategy of humans."

For our distant ancestors – when disease, poor diet and minimal healthcare meant that few people lived past 30 - looking for a more suitable partner was necessary, researchers assert.

Despite anecdotal claims about cheating, no study has shown that humans are predisposed to monogamy or non-monogamy.

A study carried out by Rafael Wlodarski and a team of researchers at Oxford University looking into infidelity found a correlation between the length of a individual's ring finger and the likelihood that they would cheat on a partner.

However, they stressed that they could not find a causal link.

Professor Robin Dunbar of Oxford University said the differences were “subtle” and “only visible when we look at large groups of people”.

"Human behaviour is influenced by many factors, such as the environment and life experience, and what happens in the womb might only have a modest effect on something as complex as sexual relationships," he said.

Dr Buss said: "Affairs serve as a form of mate insurance, keeping a back-up mate should a switch become warranted in the future.’

"A regular mate may cheat, defect, die, or decline in mate value.

"Ancestral women lacking a back-up mate would have suffered a lapse in protection, and resources."

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/...03501.html

[EndsExpect]

(10-07-2017 07:12 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

Nothing that I wrote is idealistic just because it's not negative. Your initial post is a knee jerk reaction to the concept of marriage and you seem to think that I am advocating for marriage for all men at all costs. My posts were directed to those that are, or want to be married. I don't need reminding of the difference between biology and social and cultural conditioning, as was the basis of my posts. As for insulting me, posting a snarky gif about my wife fucking around IS insulting since you know nothing of her, as is responding to me with further snark and sarcasm. You do not know what you're talking about when it comes to being in a marriage, and since you've successfully shitted up the thread I suggest taking it to PM if you wish to continue - which frankly I don't since it's clearly going nowhere.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The guys who think women cheat because their husbands slowly go Beta are kidding themselves. I've seen women cheat on super alpha men.

I think the reasons women cheat vary with the relationship. Very few women are perfectly happy with their relationship and why they cheat often comes down to whether a guy can step in and fill that need at the time she is feeling it most acutely.

As a final thought, any guy with a brain will know when their woman is playing around. Women very rarely keep their emotions in check to a point where you can't tell. So, if you say your wife wasn't playing the field and you don't seem like a dense guy... then I believe you.

[questor70]

(10-06-2017 03:06 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  

If you compare today's women to their mothers, yeah their mothers could be sluts but today's women really take it to another level. I just read about a Snapchat competition in the Oktoberfest thread

At risk of going OT, has anyone actually done a study to try to estimate what percentage of young women have done sex acts on video (camgirl/porn shoot) or were involved in at least one group sex party?

In the old days the total number of women in the porn industry compared to the general population was incredibly small. But today, thanks to cheap cameras and the internet and a general voyeuristic "look at me" mentality it seems like there is truly enormous "churn". There are very few recognizable porn "stars" anymore and in its place is sort of a firehose-like flood of anonymous bodies writhing around on the -tube sites. And the milder the act, like just a diddle session or a facial with no insertion, the more it seems like it's pulling "everyday" women in off the street.

Mathematically speaking I've got to imagine that a very high percentage of the total number of HBs have done porn and have at least one video permanently archived on the internet even if they've been able to get away with not having it personally identified.

I just think that the more women have begun to see porn as the centerpoint of male attention and the less stigma seems to be associated with it the more open they are to doing it. That need for attention and 30 seconds of (anonymous) fame overrides the fear of shame or being objectified.

If you add in things like instagram and cosplay attention-whoring then the percentages probably skyrocket.

[Samseau]

Whoring on the internet is also totally safe compared to whoring IRL where women are at risk for all sorts of things.

Internet whoring is almost all upside with little downside - the only downside is being identified. Also, make countries have laws allowing women to get their videos removed from the internet. More "no consequences for women" bullshit.

Aside from that problem, internet whoring allows women to get tons of validation and cash. The odds the men on the net are from the woman's hometown are extremely low. Combined with acceptance of whoring among men, more women than ever are content with becoming a porn whore of some kind.

This definitely impacts marriage, as both men and women are trained to seek and enjoy variety. Women are trained to get resources from any man for sex, while men are trained to get different women no matter what. Marriage is cheapened by rampant whoring, and adultery is seen as no big deal in most coastal cities nowadays.

[Leonard D Neubache]

I find there to be no fundamental difference between a camwhore and a woman that takes a thousand selfies, chooses the best one, applies ten filters to it and then courts the male hamster on social media. The only difference is that one is getting paid and the other isn't.

I've talked with another member at length about women and social media, explaining how grateful I am to have a wife that doesn't use that shit, by sheer luck I would add since I never considered it to be pre-requisite back when we met.

These days if I found myself back on the market and looking for a wife my first pre-requisite wouldn't be looks or notch count or age. It would be a lack of social media usage.

[nagaviper]

As much as this social subversion bothers me on principle -- it allows me to excel where others fall into traps. When you sign up for this site/movement, and become an active poster/listener -- it's like that movie They Live -- you gain x-ray vision through society.

I had friends that were in open relationships (women participate, men do not), I have known women that falsely accused men of rape, women that convinced their boyfriends to sleep around to 'get it out' of their systems. Then play innocent when they were cornered with their deeds. If a marriage fails, or a woman is unfaithful -- it is absolutely the man's fault, and the woman is seen as the victim. We see this on talk shows, tv shows -- it's a narrative constantly embellished by society. Men have told me straight-faced being a 'cuckhold' is a noble honor because he gets to see his wife happy at his own expense, and dejection.

Ludicrous social engineering (but it does thin the competition pool quite a bit.)

[Paracelsus]

(10-07-2017 10:05 PM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  

Women are genetically programmed to have affairs

Quote:

Women are predisposed by their genetics to have affairs as "back-up plans'" if their relationships fail, according to a research paper.

Scientists at the University of Texas say they are challenging the assumption that humans have evolved to have monogamous relationships.

The team's research has put forward the "mate-switching-hypothesis" which says humans have evolved to keep testing their relationships and looking for better long-term options.

The senior author of the research, Dr David Buss, told the Sunday Times: "Lifelong monogamy does not characterise the primary mating patterns of humans.

"Breaking up with one partner and mating with another may more accurately characterise the common, perhaps the primary, mating strategy of humans."

For our distant ancestors – when disease, poor diet and minimal healthcare meant that few people lived past 30 - looking for a more suitable partner was necessary, researchers assert.

Despite anecdotal claims about cheating, no study has shown that humans are predisposed to monogamy or non-monogamy.

A study carried out by Rafael Wlodarski and a team of researchers at Oxford University looking into infidelity found a correlation between the length of a individual's ring finger and the likelihood that they would cheat on a partner.

However, they stressed that they could not find a causal link.

Professor Robin Dunbar of Oxford University said the differences were “subtle” and “only visible when we look at large groups of people”.

"Human behaviour is influenced by many factors, such as the environment and life experience, and what happens in the womb might only have a modest effect on something as complex as sexual relationships," he said.

Dr Buss said: "Affairs serve as a form of mate insurance, keeping a back-up mate should a switch become warranted in the future.’

"A regular mate may cheat, defect, die, or decline in mate value.

"Ancestral women lacking a back-up mate would have suffered a lapse in protection, and resources."

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/...03501.html

I query whether this article is accurately reporting the "paper" it says exists, if at all. The article doesn't link to any study at all. Dr David Buss certainly exists, being a doctor of evolutionary psychology, and commands a team of serious beta and slightly bangable research assistants, but I can't find any research paper that they published in or around August 2016 (the date of the article). It might be there, but a couple years old or something.

Personally I think Buss probably has the reasoning entirely backward. I prefer the explanation given in a paper that made it into Nature: in essence, when human beings were living in small communities of 1,000 or less, there was a genetic predisposition to settling for Mr Provider Beta with Glasses rather than holding out for Mr Alpha With Ten Inch Cock. If you didn't settle, you didn't marry and didn't pass on your genes.

Quote:

MSU professor of microbiology and molecular genetics Chris Adami said it is human nature to take the safe bet when stakes are high — such as the odds of producing offspring.

“An individual might hold out to find the perfect mate but run the risk of coming up empty and leaving no progeny,” Adami said.

The researches tested many variables that influence risk-taking behaviour and concluded that certain conditions influence our decision-making process.

“We observe that risk aversion only evolves when the gamble is a rare event,” he said.

This means that the amount someone is willing to bet on finding the perfect mate is strongly related to the size of the pool they have to draw from.
“Settling early for the sure bet gives you an evolutionary advantage, if living in a small group,” he said.
“Preference for risk averse strategies only evolves in small populations of less than 1,000 individuals, or in populations segmented into groups of 150 individuals or fewer.”

With those numbers thought to be comparable to what primitive humans encountered in the past, one only has to look at them to see the theory in practice.
“Primitive humans were likely forced to bet on whether or not they could find a better mate,” Mr Adami said.
“They could either choose to mate with the first, potentially inferior, companion and risk inferior offspring, or they could wait for Mr. or Ms. Perfect to come around.
“If they chose to wait, they risk never mating.”
If you are freaking out because the only large groups you associate with are on Facebook and Twitter, fear not.
Researches have offered a glimmer of hope for those wanting to hold out for The One.
Adami said not everyone follows the same level of risk aversion when it comes to reproducing.
“We do not all evolve to be the same,” Adami said.
“Evolution creates diversity in our acceptance of risk, so you see some people who are more likely to take bigger risks than others. We see the same phenomenon in our simulations.”

That is: as we slowly slouched our way into cities and began living in large communities, risk averseness declined. Women were more willing to bang because the prospect of finding another partner was greater, that is, at a genetic level it might well be they cheat not because they want a backup partner, but because the availability of other partners should their cheating be discovered is much greater than it once was.

At the higher-than-genetic level, i.e. the mass psychological one, there's another explanation, but you all know where I'm going with that.

[Leonard D Neubache]

I seriously doubt that there's much 'evolutionary' insight to be gained looking at our near past.

For the vast majority of our species' history women were not 'choosing' jack shit and the patriarchy wasn't interested in whether they were 'ready to settle'.

They were conquered or assigned. End of story.

Hell, in most societies throughout history even the male in the equation didn't get a choice.

[hv123]

I don't think women are cheating any more than ever, they are just being more open about it due the climate we live in.
As I've said before, mathematically its impossible for men and women to have a different amount of sex, and while doesn't mean the same applies for extra marital affairs, it's hard to believe that married men have a lot more sex with unmarried women than vice versa.

[Vaun]

(10-05-2017 11:23 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

I'm saying, that keeping a woman in line is the RESPONSIBILITY of the Man, Period. Especially us who know how women work.

Bravo mate. Society is only as bad for men, as much as these man have backbones.

This is happening for two reasons;
1) The Man picked the wrong woman to marry
2) She fell out of love with his beta ass

Men often pick women to marry that are not completely in love with them. A woman completely in love with her man will not cheat, and will take much longer to fall out of love with her man. Men, conditioned by our feminized society, pick women who subtly and not so subtly show signs and red flags in the dating process, that she is not completely in love with their man. This is an epidemic. The poor guy falls head over heals(in lust), and willfully ignores and rationalizes obvious warning signs, that she either is the wrong choice, or flat out will not be a good wife. Then 5,10,20 years later, this manifests in the woman straying.

Beta guy picks a borderline "right" woman, but then accelerates her departure by acting hardcore beta. Even "the right" woman can be driven away by a weak beta man. Sure there are the basics, his weight, his looks, his supplicating. But it goes much further than that; is he a positive upbeat guy? Is he a leader? Is he in control of his emotions? Is he thoughtful to her when it matters? Is he using her as his emotional tampon? Is he angry? Is he irresponsible with his finances? Does he not respect her, show admiration or can be a little romantic? Does he do all of this, and drive the woman away, that at first saw him as the be all end all of men, and now views him as the most vile human being on earth.

The theory is simple, pick the right woman, and treat her right. With that combo, its more unlikely she will cheat, and in fact, add to your life and increase the results you seek to achieve in life.

[General Stalin]

The reason women cheat is because they can.

The only reason why they did not cheat so much in the past is because there were hefty legal and social consequences tied to the act, and there were no buzzfeed articles and social media shit telling them it was okay and they were not alone.

I'm not saying every single woman will cheat on every man every time if given the opportunity, but odds are not in one's favor. Learning game is a way to potentially counteract such behavior, as well as careful mate selection, but in the end you can't control other people's feelings/actions. You have to just have faith and accept that nothing is guaranteed.

[SlickyBoy]

(10-06-2017 03:06 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  

(10-06-2017 10:45 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

How do we know women just aren't more shameless nowadays, and are cheating at the same rates as they've always been - just more honest about it?

If you compare today's women to their mothers, yeah their mothers could be sluts but today's women really take it to another level. I just read about a Snapchat competition in the Oktoberfest thread - a group of young women decided to go out on Oktoberfest and made a competition of who was going to end up sucking dick the first. Now if that isn't degenerate I don't know what is.

I absolutely think that women were more bound by social mores and weren't cheating as much 40-50 years ago. Maybe not in urban centers and maybe not every mother, but the trends and averages should bear me out. Even if they were cheating as much, they weren't getting on their high horse for it and being lauded for whoring around.

Agreed - there was too much social pressure not to do that. These days, if a woman has made up her mind to cheat, she's going to cheat. I was a young kid in the late 70s and as wild as times might have been in some ways, divorce was still relatively uncommon. Women definitely did not cheat as often as men, a habit that got more common as society continued to ramp up all the excuses for their bad behavior. Essentially, it's another version of the pussy pass when a girl/woman gets in trouble for something and everyone explains it away versus holding her responsible. We're seeing this tendency play out in the cheating arena, excuses, blame games and all.

When the Ashley Madison story broke, the treatment of the women caught up in the scandal was much more forgiving than that of the men. Perel's upcoming book will be no exception as she interviews and chronicles their choices.

I think there is a high correlation between the results of feminism (women working, initiating divorces, carousel riding, frequency of abortions, social proof present in entertainment) and the massive epidemic of depression we're witnessing. It's no small coincidence that a quarter of American (and likely other Anglosphere) women are on antidepressant medications. Everything they've been taught to believe the past several decades is a big fat lie and goes completely against their nature and it's fucking them up.

She asserts that women have better sex nowadays but even if true, that hasn't stopped them from getting divorced and they sure don't seem happier about life in general. A few decades ago, women were virgins when they got married, stayed married had kids when they were healthy and didn't need pills to put their heads in order.

Love this retarded bit of rationalization:

Quote:

another friend told me she was 100 percent faithful to her husband, except when she was out of town for work each month.

With math skills like that no wonder women make such terrible CEOs. A fling once a month for 12 months means she was 91.66% faithful, which is about as meaningful a description as being almost pregnant. You either are or you are not, sweets.

Funny you mention Oktoberfest - I knew a woman who took a last minute trip there with friends right before she went off and got hitched to a beta schlub. I'm sure it was all good clean fun.

[Dan Woolf]

(10-05-2017 11:23 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

I'm saying, that keeping a woman in line is the RESPONSIBILITY of the Man, Period. Especially us who know how women work.

So, basically, you have to run game on your wife 24/7. Why would any man want this? Why would you want to legally bind yourself to a woman knowing you have to constantly play fucking mind games just to make sure she stays interested in you? "Not too hot, not too cold, a few alpha tingles here, some beta cuddles there." Sounds exhausting. And even if you somehow manage to make that happen and hold frame like a motherfucker, it's still no guarantee that she won't divorce rape you 5 or 10 years down the line. At least blue pill guys are naive, they don't know what they are getting themselves into. But red pilled men who get married know exactly how women work, and how fucked up divorce laws are in the West, and they still decide to pull the trigger on marriage, and sign their lives away. They know that they are playing with fire, and that they are putting themselves in an extremely vulnerable situation, but they still do it. I have zero sympathy for guys like this. They deserve everything that's coming for them.

(10-09-2017 08:59 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

Bravo mate. Society is only as bad for men, as much as these man have backbones.

This is happening for two reasons;
1) The Man picked the wrong woman to marry
2) She fell out of love with his beta ass

Men often pick women to marry that are not completely in love with them. A woman completely in love with her man will not cheat, and will take much longer to fall out of love with her man. Men, conditioned by our feminized society, pick women who subtly and not so subtly show signs and red flags in the dating process, that she is not completely in love with their man. This is an epidemic. The poor guy falls head over heals(in lust), and willfully ignores and rationalizes obvious warning signs, that she either is the wrong choice, or flat out will not be a good wife. Then 5,10,20 years later, this manifests in the woman straying.

Beta guy picks a borderline "right" woman, but then accelerates her departure by acting hardcore beta. Even "the right" woman can be driven away by a weak beta man. Sure there are the basics, his weight, his looks, his supplicating. But it goes much further than that; is he a positive upbeat guy? Is he a leader? Is he in control of his emotions? Is he thoughtful to her when it matters? Is he using her as his emotional tampon? Is he angry? Is he irresponsible with his finances? Does he not respect her, show admiration or can be a little romantic? Does he do all of this, and drive the woman away, that at first saw him as the be all end all of men, and now views him as the most vile human being on earth.

The theory is simple, pick the right woman, and treat her right. With that combo, its more unlikely she will cheat, and in fact, add to your life and increase the results you seek to achieve in life.

With all due respect, this reads like an article from some tradcuck website or even a parody of such.

TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE WORKS JUST FINE AS LONG AS YOU FIND THE RIGHT GIRL AND STAY ALPHA! THAT'S WHAT A REAL MAN DOES!

All the blame is shifted on the men ("they aren't alpha enough, they aren't leaders"), unicorn mindset ("just pick the right woman"), and a healthy dose of egoistical thinking ("I will succeed because I'm more alpha than those other guys, they are losers who picked wrong, and can't handle a woman unlike me"). Guys like you think we are still living in some primal era where more muscles meant more success. And because of that, you absolve women of all responsibility, and assume that harmed men are just weaklings and/or they have personal issues. You think that you are her captain. And then one day she picks up the phone, has you arrested for domestic violence, and while the cops are dragging you away in cuffs, you scream "you can't do this to me, I'm the captain!"

It's as if you are "pragmatically" trying to believe against your rational judgement. Feeling, not thinking.

[Vaun]

(10-09-2017 02:05 PM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  

With all due respect, this reads like an article from some tradcuck website or even a parody of such.

Thats right, I forgot men are victims. You have no control over your own destiny, the choices you make in life, the women you bring into your life, or the success you ultimately create in life. You're a helpless victim that believes the world(elites) are out to get you and stifle your creativity, you go Howard Roark. Keep believing that garbage.

[Samseau]

Quote:

Thats right, I forgot men are victims. You have no control over your own destiny, the choices you make in life, the women you bring into your life, or the success you ultimately create in life. You're a helpless victim that believes the world(elites) are out to get you and stifle your creativity, you go Howard Roark. Keep believing that garbage.

Strawman. Woolf never said this.

[Vaun]

(10-09-2017 02:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

Thats right, I forgot men are victims. You have no control over your own destiny, the choices you make in life, the women you bring into your life, or the success you ultimately create in life. You're a helpless victim that believes the world(elites) are out to get you and stifle your creativity, you go Howard Roark. Keep believing that garbage.

Strawman. Woolf never said this.

Thats the general assertion, that men are not in control of their destinies. As if someone just within the last few years read "red pill" sites for the very first time, or was a recent divorce rape victim. Either way, the whole "man is victim" narrative has run its course.