[Agastya]

(03-20-2017 09:59 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 09:39 AM)Lumumba Wrote:  

I know where I come from, I plan to go back to it when I can.
I suspect you think I'm African American.
In any case, where do you believe African Americans should go? Back to Africa?
For what reason?

There is no reason. There is just you, and the place you have to go back to. And then the going back. It's very Zen that way.

You know Zen, right? It's from a culture that's produced something of value, unlike your own.

You want to clarify this? Are you trying to say that Africans or African American culture produced nothing of value?

Attitudes like this, in fact, are probably the biggest weakness in the right wing at the moment. This will alienate both non-whites and whites and give leftists a wedge with which to divide the movement. You posted earlier about how you're only safe around people of your own race. Go ahead and spout these kinds of views around white people these days. See how you're received.

Assuming the guy is African American, why does he have to go back? Just because he disagrees with you? He disagrees with me and probably a lot of other posters -- I don't think that the alt right is just a bunch of scared white men, but if the dude is African American, there's a good chance his ancestors have been here for two hundred years or more. Where would he go back to? I agree on capping immigration, I don't agree on telling people to go back to where they came from because they said something that irritated you.

If anything, that smacks of the same kind of logic and reasoning that libtards use; you said something offensive, so you're a racist who deserves to lose his livelihood.

[TravelerKai]

(03-20-2017 02:58 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Saying "You have to go back" isn't a literal call to expel people from America, it's a call to ignore and mock SJWs who make poor arguments in bad faith. (Notice how quickly Lugundum expanded his stupid arguments; that's the point!)

Hotep Jesus saying, "We should all migrate to Africa." isn't a literal call for the mass migration of all American Blacks to Africa, but rather (1) a challenge to American Blacks who constantly complain about racism and poverty to see just how good they have it, and (2) a challenge to american Blacks to honestly answer, "Are you Black first, or American first?"

Hotep Jesus saying, "No Arabs like any Black people" isn't a literal observation, but rather a follow-up shot to his most devastating and primary argument that American Blacks don't really have a culture unless they - and NOT Arabs, and NOT Asians - own all of their neighborhood corner stores.

You're all taking his rhetorical (read: not factually true, but emotionally true so as to inspire action) arguments as of they were intended to be factual, logical arguments.

You cannot tell a SJW to go back to anywhere. The people they are virtue signaling on behalf of, sure maybe. Lindy West and Lena Dunham need to keep their fat asses right here in the USA where it belongs. Same goes for Will Smith. None of those fuckers are safe for their shitty opinions anywhere else but here. Last I checked, speech was still free here. We just got through destroying a redhead from Ireland for getting raped and killed in India, and now dudes think SJWs need to leave the country?

That's not how you win. Outbreed them, re-educate them, or reach them through logic or reason are the only legal choices. If our legal systems goes away, then do what you want. At that point rules are off the table. This talk just sounds like wanna be gangster bullshit from people that probably haven't had a real fist fight in their lives. What's the opposite of virtue signaling? Poser?

Challenge blacks to do what? Proclaim their allegiance? Who is going to do the roll call for this? What are you going to do with all the black people that say black instead? Nothing. Just like the white guys that claim all that WN stuff and Aryan Brotherhood stuff over America.

People claim what they want to. This Hotep guy can claim all that bullshit he claims and as a result he will be judged for it. Some guys might dig it. Some like me, will ignore it. Same goes for other groups.

I claim Jesus Christ over America. Should I leave and go find a Jesus Land to live in?

[MMX2010]

Agastaya Wrote:

You want to clarify this? Are you trying to say that Africans or African American culture produced nothing of value?

Attitudes like this, in fact, are probably the biggest weakness in the right wing at the moment.

Dude.

We don't know whether that banned idiot was African or not. But if he was, he came here voluntarily. That means he rejected his childhood culture to move here.

It would be one thing if his political advice were uniquely African, in which case we would've kindly told him, "Dude, America didn't become great by listening to Africans."

But he just echoed a bunch of tired, White SJWs talking points. So he isn't even brave enough, nor create enough, to offer uniquely personal political viewpoints.

What's also true is that the Forum lost nothing by his departure - and yet you're defending him .

Why?

[MMX2010]

TravelerKai Wrote:

We just got through destroying a redhead from Ireland for getting raped and killed in India, and now dudes think SJWs need to leave the country?

No. We think Lindy West and Lena Dunham need to go back to any Muslim-majority country, so they can experience real sexual harassment and real misogyny.

Quote:

People claim what they want to. This Hotep guy can claim all that bullshit he claims and as a result he will be judged for it. Some guys might dig it. Some like me, will ignore it. Same goes for other groups.

That's the point, though. Hotep Jesus isn't only talking to you; he's talking to all Blacks, in front of all Whites. You'll judge him by how he affects you personally; I'll judge him by his ability to disrupt leftist Blacks.

[Agastya]

(03-20-2017 04:16 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Agastaya Wrote:

You want to clarify this? Are you trying to say that Africans or African American culture produced nothing of value?

Attitudes like this, in fact, are probably the biggest weakness in the right wing at the moment.

Dude.

We don't know whether that banned idiot was African or not. But if he was, he came here voluntarily. That means he rejected his childhood culture to move here.

It would be one thing if his political advice were uniquely African, in which case we would've kindly told him, "Dude, America didn't become great by listening to Africans."

But he just echoed a bunch of tired, White SJWs talking points. So he isn't even brave enough, nor create enough, to offer uniquely personal political viewpoints.

What's also true is that the Forum lost nothing by his departure - and yet you're defending him .

Why?

???

The guy explicitly said that he's African American. There's nowhere for him to go back to. I thought his points were retarded and it was within Roosh's right to ban him. Still, I would hope that we as a forum are smart enough not to tell African Americans to "go back to where they came from". Unless we're taking a fully white nationalist slant, which is a little ridiculous considering that the forum is run by an Iranian dude and heavily populated by minorities.

Saying "go back to where you came from" is trash-level trolling. 1/10 would not be trolled by SamuelBRoberts, the forum has fallen far from the days of Little Dark. Lumumba was dumb, but the response he got to his comment was dumber.

Look, the choice is clear; we could make a unified American front bound together by masculinity, shared values, and a common civic sense. Or we could fall prey to even more race trolling. It would be difficult for me to stand by someone as an ally when they think my ancestral culture is completely worthless, my IQ is lower, and I'm overall racially inferior to them. It's really that simple. Resorting to the right wing equivalent of SJW tactics is absolutely autistic and overall anti-American.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Dude - you are taking this "going back" statement too literally. That was just colloquially Trumpesque for some illegal immigrants, and even with them it is mostly words. Whether he was truly black or just a SJW - who cares? His arguments were bullshit anyway. And you are bringing here the race card out swinging - I doubt Samuel meant it that way.

By the way - you were attempting to bring the supposed massive danger of White Supremacist violence to the Donald Trump thread, you now claimed that the Gulf states were all super-friendly with blacks and so liberal, now you are accusing everyone here of racism like any good SJWs.

All - I am saying don't divide us over bullshit and get hung up over words that are taken out of context.

[Enigma]

Quote:

Now it's 2017 and keyboard warriors are all of a sudden deciding, "Gee, why don't all you motherfuckers just go back to where you belong." Your great great grandfathers pondered it, saw no interest in doing this when it was easy to do, but yet, here you are with this brilliant, original, and shiny new idea.

This is what it really comes down to.

Troll an obvious troll (he's already banned) by telling them to "go back", suddenly guys are white knighting and personally insulting long-standing members because they assume the troll is a similar race to themselves.

Interesting that no one had a problem with the regular calls for people like Lena Dunham, Rosie O'Donnell, Miley Cyrus, etc. to move to Canada after Trump was elected.

Interesting that no one gets offended when people encourage California to secede or threaten to send SJWs to the Middle East or Venezuela.

But as soon as the same comment is made to someone of their own race, no matter how much of a troll that person is, it becomes this huge uproar, to the point that they're willing to fight other forum members over someone who was clearly violating the forum rules.

Meanwhile they don't understand when white men react to comments about white men.

While I don't always agree with Sam, he's 100% right on what he said above regarding the fact that whites can not really count on anyone else to have their back.

Most "minority" members on this forum have no problem ignoring or actively downplaying all the shit that is said about whites in our current culture, but there's never any shortage of people to call the alt-right racist or chastise members the moment they step out of line.

When even level headed, rational posters like Kosko are saying whites don't know what it's like to be targeted for their race in America (in another thread), which is a total and absolute joke, you know what I'm saying is true.

The funny thing is that it was myself and other white members defending the Hoteps throughout this thread as several black members claimed they were some kind of Afrocentric Five Percenters. But of course, a white person can't tell black people about black issues, but we sure do get a lecturing about white issues on a constant basis.

I was eager to talk about a positive black movement, but it predictably descended into another talk about what white people are doing wrong. There's no point in even bothering at this point.

[Agastya]

(03-20-2017 05:26 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Dude - you are taking this "going back" statement too literally. That was just colloquially Trumpesque for some illegal immigrants, and even with them it is mostly words. Whether he was truly black or just a SJW - who cares? His arguments were bullshit anyway. And you are bringing here the race card out swinging - I doubt Samuel meant it that way.

By the way - you were attempting to bring the supposed massive danger of White Supremacist violence to the Donald Trump thread, you now claimed that the Gulf states were all super-friendly with blacks and so liberal, now you are accusing everyone here of racism like any good SJWs.

All - I am saying don't divide us over bullshit and get hung up over words that are taken out of context.

I don't know, this seems pretty cut and dry:

Quote:

You know Zen, right? It's from a culture that's produced something of value, unlike your own.

So we have two things here that are unfortunate:

1) The quality of trolling on this forum seems to have gone to the dogs, el mech, Little Dark, and other colossi of the forum have been replaced by telling American citizens to go back to where they came from. I find it Sad! that the honored institution of trolling has deteriorated to such a state.

2) We have a highly repped members straight up saying that he thinks black culture is inferior -- and other guys are jumping in to defend him. It's actually funny how Engima thinks that it becomes about blaming white people -- this is literally a thread about black nationalism where SamuelBRoberts said that black culture produced nothing of value. Do you not see how this could cause us some severe problems?

You know, I owned up and admitted that calling people "redneck subhumans" was a bad thing -- because I know it's a racial insult to the white members of the forum. But when SamuelBRoberts straight up says that black culture is without value, none of you said anything. Open disrespect is never a good thing and does nothing but alienate people.

And I don't think offering a dissenting opinion is evidence of being divisive. If we don't have opposing views or any kind of conversation the forum will devolve into a circle jerk, and no one wants that. I actually learned a lot from my meltdown on the Donald Trump thread, which I would not have if I hadn't posted.

[MMX2010]

Agastaya Wrote:

Look, the choice is clear; we could make a unified American front bound together by masculinity, shared values, and a common civic sense. Or we could fall prey to even more race trolling. It would be difficult for me to stand by someone as an ally when they think my ancestral culture is completely worthless, my IQ is lower, and I'm overall racially inferior to them. It's really that simple.

You are the only one who isn't part of the "unified front". (Sure, there are people who criticize Trump, but they never claim that their criticism is evidence that the entire Forum needs to change.) Only you are saying that.

It is factual that your ancestral culture produces nothing of value - (otherwise some of us would want to live there) - and its factual that you're ancestral race has a lower average IQ than mine.

But, more importantly, it is factual that no one on this Forum uses that information to exclude others. And it's factual that no one here believes that one race is superior over another.

If you're going to constantly call out respected Forum members for "racism", you have to go back.

[Fortis]

I walk away for a night of sleep and you guys are already at eachother's throats.

[TigerMandingo]

I honestly think guys like Umar Johnson and Malcolm X are far closer to the truth in terms of black/white relations than MLK.

Black people should find ways to build their own businesses, support each other, and focus on staying together to have kids (too many black fathers walking out). Easier said than done obviously, but I think it can be done. The (((tribe))) is also responsible for constantly driving a wedge between blacks and whites so that's another issue, with their stupid Hollywood crap like Moonlight and always harping about slavery and white privilege (fuck you Tim Wise).

[MMX2010]

Enigma Wrote:

I was eager to talk about a positive black movement, but it predictably descended into another talk about what white people are doing wrong. There's no point in even bothering at this point.

This won't be much of a silver lining, but the two articles you posted on Marcus Garvey have inspired me to read some of his essays.

Ironic that, in school, Marcus Garvey is dismissed as "That racist guy who wanted all Blacks to go back to Africa". But reading about his struggle to get Blacks to unite in a meaningful, positive context makes his arguments seem quite reasonable.

[Akwesi]

I think Agastya's ancestry is from India ... where Buddhism came from... and obviously led up to Zen... meaning we have come full circle, and maybe should call it quits

[Enigma]

(03-20-2017 06:01 PM)Agastya Wrote:  

It's actually funny how Engima thinks that it becomes about blaming white people

Where did I say anything about "blaming" white people?

Case in point, you didn't even take the time to read my post and understand where I was coming from before trying to dismiss me with something I never even said.

Yet you claim to want "unification" and shared values. No, you just want us to talk about what you want to talk about and avoid anything that make you uncomfortable.

What I said is that people are quick to cry racist over a well-known Trump meme used against a troll while completely ignoring the fact that the same comments are made about all groups. (I did not comment on Samuel's second comment, nor did the TravelerKai post that I quoted, so bring that up in regards to my post is a strawman).

Look at some of the comments about Swedes in the Migrant Invasion thread or the recent posts about Germans in the Trump thread, such as how raped Swedish women are getting what they deserved and how Germans have destroyed Europe countless times.

Look at how white backpackers are talked about among the members who live in Asia.

Again, interesting that we didn't see any uproar about that. Yet there have been countless battles in the recent history of the forum over any criticism of non-white groups, and they often devolve into personal insults.

In truth, the only difference in how races are talked about on this forum is that there are far more white members and many tend to have more pride in their heritage than the black, Indian, and Latino American members.

Instead of posting more, so that we can have more perspective from non-whites, many of them take their ball and go home.

That's not my fault.

It's also not my fault if, for example, black men don't like black American women and Indian men don't like Indian women.

I like white women. I also like Asian, Latina, and African women. Sorry.

I even specifically defended black men who use Africa as a source of pride in this very thread. I even went and mined tweets to post so that we could have a discussion about a black movement.

In the end, it was a "racist" comment against a presumed-to-be black troll that generated the most discussion. Because the fact is that most of the "let's all get along" crowd thrive on negativity (though that's not directed at TK specifically, to be clear, as he mostly steers clear of these kinds of topics).

[Enigma]

(03-20-2017 07:14 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Enigma Wrote:

I was eager to talk about a positive black movement, but it predictably descended into another talk about what white people are doing wrong. There's no point in even bothering at this point.

This won't be much of a silver lining, but the two articles you posted on Marcus Garvey have inspired me to read some of his essays.

Ironic that, in school, Marcus Garvey is dismissed as "That racist guy who wanted all Blacks to go back to Africa". But reading about his struggle to get Blacks to unite in a meaningful, positive context makes his arguments seem quite reasonable.

I was really impressed by some of the quotes in that article too. Seems like a pretty red pilled guy, just based on those brief excerpts.

[Fortis]

Delete

[the high]

Even if you only count music, that is a significant contribution to America that Blacks have made.

[serge68]

Why is it that folks on here always seem to think all of Africa has been nothing but mud huts?

Also, why do the same people always ignore the many civilizations Africa has produced?

Also, what about the lebombo bone known as being one of the oldest known mathematical artifacts? If so, the implications are tremendous.

Isn't the world's first and oldest university in North Africa (I think morrocco)?

How will this bickering help us beat feminism?

Anyways, as a black man, some of the stuff their about weirds me out. Otherwise their message is positive, constructive and productive. Hotep jesus made some great points, especially on owning and starting more businesses. I look forward to teaming up with them.

[Geomann180]

(03-20-2017 08:57 PM)serge68 Wrote:  

Also, why do the same people always ignore the many civilizations Africa has produced?

Also, what about the lebombo bone known as being one of the oldest known mathematical artifacts? If so, the implications are tremendous.

Isn't the world's first and oldest university in North Africa (I think morrocco)?

How will this bickering help us beat feminism?

What many civilizations has Africa produced?

Do you know about the Songhai? How about the Mali, who they eventually supplanted? Do you know about the Zulu? Do you know about the Ethiopians and Haile Sellassie? What's the one thing that separates Ethiopia from its brethren nations in Africa?

Do you know who Ahmad al Mansur is (hint - he's Moroccan)?

__
__
__

I did not know that the oldest university in the world was in Fez, Morocco, so thanks for that.

G

[SamuelBRoberts]

(03-20-2017 03:03 PM)Agastya Wrote:  

You want to clarify this? Are you trying to say that Africans or African American culture produced nothing of value?

I'm gonna be honest, I had no idea what culture the guy was when I said that, I just said it to troll him. In retrospect "African living in Britain" seems pretty obvious, he had a British flag next to his avatar if I'm not mistaken.

Quote:

Attitudes like this, in fact, are probably the biggest weakness in the right wing at the moment. This will alienate both non-whites and whites and give leftists a wedge with which to divide the movement. You posted earlier about how you're only safe around people of your own race. Go ahead and spout these kinds of views around white people these days. See how you're received.

You'd be surprised to find out it's more common than it used to be, and getting to be more so. Not long ago I had lunch with a fellow forum member and Reaxxion writer. He never posts on political topics, with the exception of a Trump meme or two, and certainly never posts on anything racial. I was expecting to spend the lunch talking about video games and women, and was absolutely astonished to find that he'd recently fled California and gone to Iowa because "I can't take the diversity". He didn't make a fuss about it, or make any "offensive" posts, he just pulled up and left.

Quote:

Assuming the guy is African American, why does he have to go back? Just because he disagrees with you? He disagrees with me and probably a lot of other posters -- I don't think that the alt right is just a bunch of scared white men, but if the dude is African American, there's a good chance his ancestors have been here for two hundred years or more. Where would he go back to? I agree on capping immigration, I don't agree on telling people to go back to where they came from because they said something that irritated you.

I laid this out in my post above. He has to go back because if he is forced to choose between supporting my race, and violent members of his own race who wish to harm me, he will side with the violent ones. And I will be fucked.


EDIT:

(03-20-2017 02:20 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Samuel aren't you Jewish yourself? Forgive me if I recall incorrectly. Why would you not go back to your own homeland if it is just that simple?

Uh... No? No I'm not?

[Gmac]

You clowns keep getting baited thread after thread...

[SamuelBRoberts]

(03-20-2017 10:00 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

You clowns keep getting baited thread after thread...

Yeah, fair point. I kind of regret posting now, since it started as a 2:00 AM "Annoy the SJW" and ended up derailing an interesting thread that I was enjoying.
I'm going to drop posting in this thread for now, at least until the off chance that I have something interesting to say about Hoteps.

[serge68]

A lot of folks seem to be unable or unwilling to look at african history unfortunately.

For instance, the wealthiest man of all time (mansa musa, or musa keita I) was from Mail. Id bring up a list but I'm on a phone and strapped for time. Also the BBC has a series on african civilizations, but a cursory Google search will yield many results.

Also, I love reading about Benin

[MMX2010]

The greatness of past African civilizations fails to hide that an "African guy in Britain" had the nerve to tell us what American refugee policy should be, and that Agastaya wanted to give him a fair hearing.

No one brought up African civilizations to have an honest discussion about African civilizations. They brought this up to distract from the more triggering aspects of the Hotep movement.

This triggering is why I support the Hotep movement.

And more than one person has said that the best line in The Hotep movement is, "Black people have to start their own businesses to reclaim their own neighborhoods, because relying on White people to raise the Black community is enslavement."

I'll assume that this line powerfully triggers Agastaya, until proven otherwise.

I'll also note that this Hotep position, if followed, commands the respect that Agastaya claims to want. Blacks reclaiming their neighborhoods through multiple business management may not inspire love nor admiration, (since hatred and jealousy are also predictable reactions). But it will command respect.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Take it easy guys - never worth to bitch about topics that don't matter with men you agree upon 90% of things that matter in life.

All that remains is stating that some of the New Hoteps are definitely allies of us. Hotep Jesus has also 40.000 Twitter followers which is quite good for someone who is anti-establishment, anti-marxist, anti-leftist. I sure hope he gets a bigger following.