[debeguiled]

Yeah, but there are plenty of white Americans who can't even use a calculator trying to take credit for math and science and magic white girls.

Defense mechanisms like you are talking about are the domain of people who don't think they have anything to offer, and there are a lot of them around these days.

[DarkTriad]

(03-16-2017 04:07 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(03-16-2017 02:37 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Many of you know this already, but I don't subscribe to Afrocentrism at all. Some black members here do not like me or my views on the differences between Black Americans that have ancestors that were slaves/born here and actual Africans or Caribbean blacks. Some of them actually have a passport with a homeland where we are stuck here and will forever be American. We cannot choose to be something else just because color is similar or the same. They probably call me a traitor, and I think they lack understanding. It is what it is.

Like lots of other Americans my DNA is a hodgepoge. I am not 100% African by any stretch of the imagination. Majority blacks in America are similar, like Excelsior said, most are not over 85% West African DNA wise. Culturally I identify as a Louisianian or East Texan. I hunt, fish, and do whatever the others there do. Of all Africans I know, I share nothing in common with them.

To be honest, I don't really have a problem with a black American guy who wants to identify with Egypt, Africa, or whatever else the hell he wants to.

If you think about it, it's not really any different from a white American guy who identifies with the Greeks, Romans, Vikings, and English all at the same time because he descended from Europeans. Yet clearly he doesn't have direct ancestry from all (or sometimes any) of those groups.

Great post, but there are likely millions of Americans at this point with lineage back to all of the above. The Viking are the "Normans" that conquered England, it's pretty common for Englishmen to have Viking blood, Greeks and Romans had close relationships and intermarriage for centuries. All you need is someone with both English and Italian ancestry and it's pretty much a given.

[Atlanta Man]

I don't really identify with the Hotep guys or their movement at all. However, good for them if it makes them happy, relevant or wealthy-it is just not for me. I kind of just do my own thing and look out for my own self interest. I really have nothing in common with any of the Hotep, Black Israelite, Moor, Nation of Islam, Black Supremacy, or Anti White dudes I meet in Atlanta-None of them have anything to say or do that I find interesting.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(03-16-2017 02:37 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Also, some of these same non-black people that hate us, share the same ancestors we have, what sense does that make? I also think there while we have American subcultures, Black Culture is just American culture period. We all got into Jazz together and most hip hop fans were white as well. Leave the USA, and no one talks about your color hardly. You have a blue passport and you are just another American.

Excellent post Traverlkai - I think that we are more united in terms of ideology than any other divide. That is why the globalists support BlackLivesMatter and why Obama threw oil into the fire of the racial divide.

Like Morgan Freeman said - African American culture is American culture first. Many of them are certainly of mixed genetic heritage. In addition only 1.6% of Whites ever had slaves and there were some 500.000 white slaves in the early American history. There were also black slave owners. Real history is murky and less clear-cut as it seems.

Personally I never cared much about those issues since I became spiritual pretty early in life, considered reincarnation a clear possibility and became friends with quite a few black folk. I consider some of them brothers closer than many family members because we simply have more in common on more important things than how dark our skin color is or what kind of muscular tissue we have in our bodies. In my opinion you are born in different lives among different races to experience diverse things. (Nevermind if you believe in that or not.)

In my opinion the Alt Right is a Hotep cult of sorts. They are right on some issues, but a strong part of them goes crazy in terms of race and "Aryan purity".



As much as the globalists prefer to divide us, we are far more united on ideological lines here. Like the Predator platoon we can clearly see what ideology is a real shitshow and destroys civilization - and which is helping us to pull through together.

[Enigma]

(03-17-2017 07:09 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

As much as the globalists prefer to divide us, we are far more united on ideological lines here. Like the Predator platoon we can clearly see what ideology is a real shitshow and destroys civilization - and which is helping us to pull through together.

Everyone dies in Predator except for the white guy. What are you trying to say Zel?

[Fortis]

As a black man, I have a pretty poor opinion of these guys. Sure, they are sorta red pill in some ways, but they still have a bit of a victim mentality. I know 1 HUGE hotep guy. He literally says, "hotep, power to the people." He's that deep into this shit. I'm not even joking. He's an older guy and very active in NJ community politics. I respect him for putting his money where his mouth is and being out on the streets, but he's ALWAYS whining about cultural appropriation and other conspiratorial shit.

He's the sort of guy who is deeply afrocentric. I don't mind that. Worship who you like, but I sometimes find the revisionist approach to history that they employ to be vexing. Don't get me wrong, give countries their due but to try and totally structure our conception of the modern world strictly around nebulous african concepts is a bit dishonest. To be honest, any sort of "centric" pisses me off: Anglo, afro, sino or slavo. Get the fuck over yourself and go do something.

Remember when that black teacher in a bad neighborhood came up with a special handshake for each of his students? He never commented on that, but the second a white teacher did the same thing to connect with her students he was flipping shit about it. I called him out on it because it's hypocritical to say that whites don't help in the hood and then get angry when a white person tries to imitate something that worked to help black students become more engaged and successful.

The other issue I have is that these guys are often proponents of Islam, but they aren't really true followers. I have a pretty neutral stance on Islam but I hate it when someone says that follow any doctrine but half-ass it. So many Hotep guys give themselves authenic African names and talk about Allah this and Allah that but they're out here drinking, smoking and fucking out of wedlock. Whether or not you like Islam or give a shit about it, that stuff isn't condoned in the book so that level of hypocrisy rubs me the wrong way. Keep it real. If you're an agnostic just say it. No need to front with the african names and the faux-islam.

This stuff goes back pretty deep in the black community. Hotep might be the name right now but there have been dudes hawking bean pies (for those of you who get that reference) in the barbershop trying to tell young black men about Allah and Islam since times immemorial.

The only thing I really like is that it's a philosophy that does try to put black sin an empowered position through their own effort. The biggest issue I have with black leadership is that our leaders cater to the mindset that we are owed things. Whether or not we are owed something it doesn't seem like that free shit is coming so we better do it for ourselves. Sadly, a lot of the Hotep stuff is deeply set in a victim mindset and I can't get down with it.

My verdict: Next.

[Atlanta Man]

^^^Exactly. I agree with all that Fortis wrote.

[Fortis]

I also agree with TK on the whole cultural thing. I am about as African as the average white dude on this forum.

I have deeply mixed ancestral. I do see myself as an American. Just to give you an idea of how it can be, I was hanging out with this British black chick. She can trace her lineage back to a certain time and place in her home country. I don't have this luxury and, to be frank, who gives a flying fuck? Me suddenly figuring out that my ancestors were from Western africa doesn't really mean all that much to me. I'm not gonna suddenly don a dashiki and try to ape a western african style and culture. That isn't me.

As far as I'm concerned my family's point of origin was in the south. That's the only place you're gonna get black, native and white people hanging out all at the same time.

I look back at photos of my great grandparents and they look American to me. A mix of black, white and native blood is readily apparent in them.

I am a product of America and I'll always be American first and foremost. I am black, sure, but my ancestral homeland is America. When I think of going home I think of going back to East Coast america. It's in the blood and it's where I'm from. Africa doesn't really figure into my concept of home.

A lot of Americans feel the way I do, we just don't really talk about it because it's a pretty bizarre topic. Yes, you may have ancestors from Ireland who came here 200 years ago but you're not culturally all that Irish; you just look like a Celt. I do have some friends who come from families where they have closely guarded european ways of doing things but that is such a small group of people where I'm from.

[Enigma]

The NEW Hotep is not the same as the OLD Hotep.

They make fun of cultural appropriation...

[/url]

They are not pro-Islam...

And they do not espouse a victim mentality...

[url=https://twitter.com/VibeHi/status/841755978571886592]

[Disco_Volante]

Any group that has alternative, anti-globalist ideas is good in my book. Even if you don't agree with everything they say, getting people to think differently is a gateway to the red pill.

Most of us did not start out with globalism shit, we simply noticed women behaved much differently than what we were being taught, and looked into it, revealing many other truths about the world in the process.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

There was this article on ROK: http://www.returnofkings.com/116906/is-t...ist-elites

Hotep movement seems to be a way for some black men to find direction, but it seems to be very diverse.

This incredible attempt of historical revisionism isn't helpful.

Also the attempt of pushing Islam by some is just nuts. Anyone who studies Islam well enough should know that black people are probably the worst targets for this religion. The word ABED for black in Arabic is identical for SLAVE, there are numerous references in the Koran and the Hadiths as to blacks (Mohammed called blacks raisinheads, he once said that Satan looked like a black man, the Koran often exalts the virtue of having white skin etc.).

You may say much against Christianity, but the lore is specifically against slavery and Christianity taught right off the start that every human/ every soul is equal - back in times where slavery was rampant. Some even call Christianity a religion of slaves for slaves, since it was picked up by the numerous slaves of the Middle East and Rome so readily.

Islam has the opposite - you have passages of how to keep slaves and treat them well. Mohammed himself had owned and traded black slaves, Jesus freed them (figuratively speaking).

------------

As for the culture thing - one of my best buddies is a Norwegian born half-black-half-Viking. His father is from the Caribbean and his mom is a blonde Norwegian woman. Of course he is more European by culture, he served in the Norwegian marines. He married now a Russian girl and pops out 25% black babies (who look white already) with her. Also he works in self-employed in IT and his customers love him, because he is such a lovable guy. What culture should he feel himself close - African? He is a Norwegian and nothing more.

As for the Hoteps - they are a partly a positive movement, but I would stay away from Islam and from too much unfounded revisionism. It does not matter who came up with what.

I for one would not care jack shit if an Alien advanced green-skinned race came to Earth, conquered everything and would make us second class citizens, if we as now second class citizens lived better off than as first class citizens on Earth before. If I can become a space explorer for the now green-skinner Master-Race and have a higher living standard due to technology than before, then so be it - they rule, but I am still better off.

[debeguiled]

(03-16-2017 11:09 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

I listened to this and I agree with a lot of what he says. It is just red pill stuff with a focus on applying the info specifically to the black community.

He keeps coming back to being Pan African, and I am not sure what that is, so maybe someone can enlighten me. The feeling I get is that it is a form of black nationalism involving a separate and self sustaining black nation, though he doesn't exactly come out and say it, so I am not sure.

I like that he has a clinical psych background and considers gays to be sexually confused and not, ahem, *born that way*. He makes the good point that most gay kids have been sexually abused as youngsters, and had their agency as men taken away from an early age, emasculated before they had a chance to be masculine basically, he will only call gay men sexually confused, for example. He can speak with authority because of a clinical background.

That he concerns himself only with how these things affect young black men rather than young men only makes sense, he is specializing.

He says he is trying to get a school started where the kids will live there, and he can, like the Jesuits, get kids while they are young and try to teach and raise them right.

My only notes of caution came because I don't really understand Pan Africanism, in that it seems pretty un-American in the sense that he doesn't believe in the melting pot idea or in the concept of civil rights for gays for example. I don't care about this personally, I just think that he is going to have a tough time implementing his policies in this country.

He speaks for example of having the school be open only to black students, and only have black teachers and no gay teachers, and no faculty member will be allowed to be in a romantic relationship with a member of another race.


I have no idea how he will get away with implementing these policies given the laws of this country.

So, a lot of good stuff, some stuff I don't understand, and some stuff that seems like he will never get away with.

Worth listening to.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Listened to an interview with the Hotep Jesus on Red Ice radio:

Gotta say - I fully stand behind guys like that just as I like some Alt Righters.

He is an anti-left, anti-feminist, pro Red Pill, tribal affirmative guy. And the way he advocates is to look at things how they are, to question everything and for black communities to reach forward financially, prosper, because the world belongs to the rich and strong.

He is also quite ethno-centric and would even approve a massive move of blacks to an African state where they could create a country worth living in.

He has his own opinions, but certainly is not pro Islam. He also calls those WE-WAZ-KINGS guys as having a serious case of KANGS. (read it on his Twitter)

Great guy. Hotep is certainly not a bad movement, but you gotta ask - which direction the guy is from just as with the AltRighters. But either way - probably all Hotep directions are better than the BlackLivesMatter victim-lefties who go out in support for TheCunt Hillary.

Anyone who sees the fractional reserve banking system as our first real enemy is my kind of brother (in the most positive sense).

https://twitter.com/VibeHi

[pitbullowner]

(03-16-2017 01:34 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

I have a black friend whose wife homeschools their kids. There are a lot of dimensions to this. I don't want to say they are independent thinkers but rather someone in their community who is a leader is an independent thinker, and they follow his thinking. A lot of these beliefs parallel red pill/ROK. But most people just think of this as their personal worldview, not whether they are political allies with another group.

It genuinely sounds like what social tribalism in its finest.

[debeguiled]

(03-19-2017 09:09 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

If videos like this are possible, Alt-righters having reasonable chats with Hotep dudes, SJWs are truly fucked.

The cheese stands alone.

The writing is on the wall.

Ha. Ha.

[MMX2010]

That interview With Hotep Jesus is amazing. Thanks for posting.

[Buck Wild]

I'm black and this thread is the first I'm hearing of these guys. But...I don't have Twitter or any social media except Facebook which I rarely use, so I guess it's not surprising that I didn't encounter these guys before.

@Fortis
I lol-ed at the bean-pie/NOI reference. A nice touch.

[Roosh]

(03-19-2017 01:02 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 09:09 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

If videos like this are possible, Alt-righters having reasonable chats with Hotep dudes, SJWs are truly fucked.

The cheese stands alone.

The writing is on the wall.

Ha. Ha.

Give it a month or two for the media or other shadowy group to drive the wedge between the two groups so they'll be fighting each other. They did that to the alt right and myself when we were starting to communicate.

[Fortis]

^ Watching the video now. This guy doesn't seem bad at all.

[Kingsley Davis]

(03-19-2017 07:56 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 01:02 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 09:09 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

If videos like this are possible, Alt-righters having reasonable chats with Hotep dudes, SJWs are truly fucked.

The cheese stands alone.

The writing is on the wall.

Ha. Ha.

Give it a month or two for the media or other shadowy group to drive the wedge between the two groups so they'll be fighting each other. They did that to the alt right and myself when we were starting to communicate.

   

[Agastya]

(03-19-2017 11:23 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

^ Watching the video now. This guy doesn't seem bad at all.

What do you think about his exhortation to black people to return to Africa? Seems counterintuitive to me, considering the fact that black people are unquestionably American. Their ancestors were in America at least as long as most white people's ancestors.

His remark about Qatar was also a little off; I've been to the Gulf states and to other Arab countries, and there are tons of black Arabs there as a result of years of slave trading. They can't really hate black people while having a heavy dose of African genetics themselves. I'm a dark ass Indian guy, and when I traveled to other Arab countries everyone thought I was from the Gulf -- Qatar/UAE/Oman especially have a ton of genetic influence from black people and Indians thanks to historical trading ties to East Africa and the subcontinent (as well as slavery).

"Arab" isn't a race, when I was there I saw people who could pass for Nordics, people who looked Central African, and everything in between. I think the worst thing I saw or heard of happening was my friend being called "my nigga" by some cab driver. Apparently some North Africans are extremely racist towards refugees from Sub-Saharan Africa, but a lot of these North Africans would themselves be considered black if they came to the states.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

You don't have to agree with everything he is proposing. Actually in a truly prulalistic openness of views and opinions it is unlikely that you will agree on everything even with your best buddies or the men here on the forum for that matter.

As for Quatar and Gulf states - you should better give it a rest. Of course it is not about logic with those guys, since so many former black slaves interbred with their owners, that it does not matter that they look sometimes the same. The 99,9% Caucasian Ottoman Sultans also did not care and would have conquered and enslaved all of the Caucasian Christian Kuffars if they could. If you deny that there is a problem, then be my guest:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion...07286.html Even Al-Jazeera propaganda thinks there is a problem.

Quote:

Confronting anti-black racism in the Arab world
The Arab slave trade is a fact of history, and anti-black racism in the region is something that must be addressed.

[url=https://twitter.com/tarekfatah/status/482530200773615617][/url]

But .... nothing to see here. The gulf states are beacons of multicultural utopia just as the ISIS videos tell us they are.

[Fortis]

He lost me at "go back to Africa" but I can see why he might say that. He may have visited Tanzania, but I'd like to see him do at least a year abroad in Tanzania before he dismissively tells anyone they should move to a location. I've been abroad for nearly 2 years and I still hesitate before telling anyone "move to china! all your problems will be solved!" There is a ton of bullshit you deal with living in Asia that you don't have back home but also a ton of pluses that make me really like it. It's a balance.

Doesn't matter if we are also black. There would be tons of challenges we'd face moving to an African nation. We would be outsiders there and I doubt many of us are used to a place of that nature where it's blazing hot, reasonably poor medical standards, questionable construction standards, poor infrastructure (in comparison to America) and a slew of other problems. Is that really something we can genuinely tell our brothers to go into? I couldn't.

There are a lot of blacks who complain about USA and rightfully so, but those same blacks also recognize that America is probably still in the top 5 best places to live as a black man. There is a ton of bullshit but also a lot you can do there. I left because I wanted to leave but I don't fault any black man for staying and taking advantage of all that stuff.

I did take issue with him criticizing the black people who complain. The American way is to complain and point out the bad things. That's just how we are. It isn't just blacks. It's a deep part of the American character. We let others know what we don't like.

The thing with that though is that we are so deeply alienated from Africa at this point that it isn't like going back home. We have almost no connection to that place other than DNA.

We aren't going to just show up and suddenly go "ahh, my people" in fucking Bantu languages while dancing to perfectly synchronized drum beats that unlock our latent African ancestral memories.

The thing that I don't think a lot of people realize is that many black Americans are just too deeply American to go back. I love being American. There is no other passport I want. Fuck dual citizenship.

Same with most white americans and Europe. I don't have too many white friends back home who keep in touch with their distant European cousins (if they even have any). I think this idea of returning back to the homeland is a hokey and overly sentimental.

That's a lot like trying to crawl back into the womb. Doesn't work that way. You can return to the location but the state is vastly altered. For all I know the tribe or kingdom I may have descended from is now all the way up north Africa. Who the fuck knows?

We cannot undo the past, we can simply move forward. If a few more African nations stabilize I would consider visiting, but I would be going in the capacity of a visitor, not as some dude trying to "reconnect" with his roots. I know where my roots are and they are on the east coast of USA. Why should I feel lesser somehow for admitting that?

all that said, I enjoyed his other points. He comes across as intelligent and willing to take a stand on issues. I really did resonate with his point about the alt-right: Stop hiding behind avatars and take a stand, be a person instead of a frog meme.

I'd be willing to watch more discussions involving this guy. Roosh, you should reach out to him and do a youtube video or something.

[Fortis]

I suppose this ties into another point that bothers me a fair bit. Why can't American nationalism include non-whites who have a stake in America. I'd rather die than give up my citizenship. My ancestors have fought and bled in wars for America? What more must I do to prove my value? Why does it always seem to come down to "you need to be with your people cuz demographics + proxomity = warlozlozlzolzozlzolzozlzozlzozlzolzozlzo!!!!"

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to move into some all white area in america and bring "progress" to them, but I don't really get why it's automatically assumed that my allegiance is to a color and not to my nation. There are TONS of blacks I actively dislike. Why is it assumed that we blacks are going to always select other blacks over whites?

[RawGod]

I propose that the standard greeting between forum members in public be "hotep!" and a fist bump. Especially if you're white.