[kaotic]

So why are we white knighting for her sake then ?

Not sure how we're disagreeing on the notion on assuming she's banging someone else. Solid evidence of that.


You're right she chased him, he said no, and still stuck around. So she KNEW what she was getting.

Months vs. years are apples and oranges - not comparable at all man.


Yet here she is having backups and being able to swing dick to dick, so no I don't feel bad for this girl.

My point was, she was saying one thing and doing another. Actions vs. words.


I agree with the last statement, mine is worded differently, should've plated her, she wanted more, just dropped her then.

[therealpoder]

I'm against people wasting other people's time.

I don't think women should string (beta) males out on dates without giving up sex just like I don't think men should string along (beta) women for months and years without commitment.

If that makes me a "white knight" for male and female betas then I'm okay with that.

Of course she's banging someone else. We all took the red pill, didn't we?

The whole point of committed relationships is that you agree that you aren't going to date/bang out people. So that assumes that without commitment it is okay to date and bang other people. So she didn't do anything that she didn't have the right to do, even if OP didn't like it.

Yeah, she knew that OP wouldn't commit. She was foolish for sticking around if that is what she wanted.

I don't think it was wrong to have a back up since they weren't exclusive.

OP didn't want a relationship with her so I'm not sure why he cared that someone else was banging her.

He had to know that without commitment someone else was banging her, right?

[kaotic]

(09-10-2016 06:13 PM)therealpoder Wrote:  

I'm against people wasting other people's time.

I don't think women should string (beta) males out on dates without giving up sex just like I don't think men should string along (beta) women for months and years without commitment.

If that makes me a "white knight" for male and female betas then I'm okay with that.

Of course she's banging someone else. We all took the red pill, didn't we?

The whole point of committed relationships is that you agree that you aren't going to date/bang out people. So that assumes that without commitment it is okay to date and bang other people. So she didn't do anything that she didn't have the right to do, even if OP didn't like it.

Yeah, she knew that OP wouldn't commit. She was foolish for sticking around if that is what she wanted.

I don't think it was wrong to have a back up since they weren't exclusive.

OP didn't want a relationship with her so I'm not sure why he cared that someone else was banging her.

He had to know that without commitment someone else was banging her, right?

I agree on the wasting time, both parties should know that.

The white knight was just a rib general, not directed at you in any form since you're holding your own.

I think that's the biggest thing being overlooked, did OP have that mindset ? If he did, I don't think he'd be looking for advice or support.

[XPQ22]

(09-10-2016 06:22 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I agree on the wasting time, both parties should know that.

The white knight was just a rib general, not directed at you in any form since you're holding your own.

I think that's the biggest thing being overlooked, did OP have that mindset ? If he did, I don't think he'd be looking for advice or support.

It's a good question, and I actually don't disagree with "therealpoder", he raises a valid point. I've said myself that it's foolish for a guy to think he can just keep it casual with a girl indefinitely and that she's going to sit around in the meantime. I understood this at an intellectual level, so why did it end up ticking me off emotionally?

First reason: it's hard not to get emotional when it shows up in your face. As an example, you can read about "mindfulness" and "letting things go" all you want, but when an asshole cuts you off in traffic, your "monkey brain" is still going to cause that flash of anger. At some level as humans we're hardwired for anger and jealousy. And I finally think that may have been her intention. She didn't want to drop me, but she couldn't continue as it was. She needed some kind of action on my part - for better or worse. Most of the women I've dated are pretty smart (or cunning, if you want to be cynical about it.) As if she's brand new and don't know how to hide a text.

Second reason: I blew off the "what are we" talk, but then...kept behaving like I was an exclusive BF. Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! If her role is a plate, I have to treat her like a plate!

So yes, part of the blame definitely lies on me. I really appreciate the support and opinions of the guys on the thread, it's helped me figure out where the issues lie. And absolutely a big part of the blame lies on me for not behaving congruently, 100%. I had been out of the game for a while, and these relatively short relationships were my first attempts at working towards something different than just random ONS. I've made the mistakes, and I'm trying to learn from them.

[MediumRare]

On this subject, I wonder what you men would advise on the best way of dealing with negative emotions when they arise.

I recently came out of a LTR after the better part of a decade and am starting to feel it now.

It had been bad for a while so there was an initial sense of relief to have made a decision coupled with a week or so of roller coaster up and down emotions 4-5 times a day.

Then it seemed to settle over the past month as I decided not to allow myself to dwell on it and focused my mind on work, taking practical steps to keep moving forward with my life.

Whenever thoughts of her came up and I felt my mood worsen, I would just get into the moment, stay out of my head and it would soon pass.

I thought to myself, hey, this was not so bad i'm doing fine.

But now, I'm starting to wonder if I'm just burying my head in the sand and not processing it properly as I feel a building sense of nagging unease about the future.

Iv started dreaming about her now and thoughts of her are coming more frequently.

Iv also started sleeping in, binging on tinder, fucking a couple other girls & gym as a stronger form of distraction from these feelings which in turn is now affecting my work/general self improvement progress.

I wonder if im making a mistake in pushing out the thoughts & negative emotions and should just continue allowing them to come, wash over and pass as I did at the beginning.

Basically do you think I am just avoiding the full grieving process and should continue going 'through' it to get to the other side or was I doing the right thing in not dwelling on it but just happen not to be managing too well at the moment?

Thanks for any replies.

[RatInTheWoods]

(09-24-2016 12:41 PM)MediumRare Wrote:  

On this subject, I wonder what you men would advise on the best way of dealing with negative emotions when they arise.

Have a few weeks in Thailand.

You will never lament your lost love again, only the lost time you could have been loving others!

[Eddie Winslow]

Bump for a personal question related to OPs.

I have a girl who I've been seeing about once a week for 18 months. She really loves me and treats me like a king - showers me with gifts, brings over home cooked meals, bakes me brownies, etc. She definitely has some clingy/stalker tendency (lives 45+ minute drive away from me but regularly "just happens to be in my area" all the time, calls me every day) but is just such a kind, sweet soul. I've been seeing other girls here and there, but it's almost exclusively her. I've told her from the get go I don't want a relationship, which she claimed she is OK with. I've held a face-to-face meeting no less than three times to "break up" with her and she always talks me out of it. I've tried to break up with her not because I don't want to see her anymore, but because I feel very guilty about the lopsided relationship and truly do not want to waste her time.

Like OP, initially I wanted to meet a friend more than anything. Now I'm in the ugly area between a fuck buddy and an LTR, but I really do care about her as a friend. We have become very close and we are certainly emotionally attached. As you might expect, this relationship started from a hook up app and we almost certainly would have never met in person otherwise. I am almost positive she is not seeing anyone else. I admitted that I had slept with another girl about a year ago and she was devastated, although she understood how our relationship was defined at the time.

I know this relationship is holding me back from meeting other girls I'm more attracted to and that I probably staying in it because I'm afraid of finding a "real' LTR. Maybe this is beta, but this girl isn't some cumdumpster "plate" to me - she's a real friend and I want to treat her as such.

Is my guilt warranted? Do I need to really cut her off?

[kaotic]

(09-22-2017 02:32 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

Bump for a personal question related to OPs.

I have a girl who I've been seeing about once a week for 18 months. She really loves me and treats me like a king - showers me with gifts, brings over home cooked meals, bakes me brownies, etc. She definitely has some clingy/stalker tendency (lives 45+ minute drive away from me but regularly "just happens to be in my area" all the time, calls me every day) but is just such a kind, sweet soul. I've been seeing other girls here and there, but it's almost exclusively her. I've told her from the get go I don't want a relationship, which she claimed she is OK with.

Obviously she's very invested in you and wants to see you more than once a week.

To be honest, you ARE in relationship with her by default.

Every girl "says" they're okay with that setup, but all your actions and signs point towards you being in one by default with her.

Quote:

I've held a face-to-face meeting no less than three times to "break up" with her and she always talks me out of it. I've tried to break up with her not because I don't want to see her anymore, but because I feel very guilty about the lopsided relationship and truly do not want to waste her time.

A guy doesn't "try", he either dumps her or keeps her. Your frame was weak and you caved because of her guilting you back into her frame for a relationship.

Her talking you out of it in reality shows that you have a weak frame and oneitis - I understand she sounds like a good girl and adores you - so I don't say the above as an insult.

Quote:

Like OP, initially I wanted to meet a friend more than anything. Now I'm in the ugly area between a fuck buddy and an LTR, but I really do care about her as a friend. We have become very close and we are certainly emotionally attached. As you might expect, this relationship started from a hook up app and we almost certainly would have never met in person otherwise. I am almost positive she is not seeing anyone else. I admitted that I had slept with another girl about a year ago and she was devastated, although she understood how our relationship was defined at the time.

Let me reiterate, YOU ARE in an LTR - you're seeing this chick for 18 months, I highly doubt it's only once a week all the time, I'll bet you've seen her twice, maybe even 3 times in 7 days.

Your biggest mistake so far has been telling her you fucked another woman. Time and time again one of the worst mistakes a man can make is voluntarily giving information about his sex/love life to a woman.

You don't tell fuck buddies, you don't tell plates, you don't tell girls you're trying to game, you don't tell LTR's, you don't tell your wife.

Quote:

I know this relationship is holding me back from meeting other girls I'm more attracted to and that I probably staying in it because I'm afraid of finding a "real' LTR. Maybe this is beta, but this girl isn't some cumdumpster "plate" to me - she's a real friend and I want to treat her as such.

Is my guilt warranted? Do I need to really cut her off?

This relationship is NOT holding you back, YOU are holding yourself back.

You're not afraid to find a real LTR, YOU'RE AFRAID TO BE DOING THINGS SOLO.

You're being held back by the fact of possibly being alone, plate less, fuck buddy less, this is why you're holding onto a woman who adores you.

The last thing you should be doing is jumping from relationship to relationship like a chick jumps dick to dick.

You need some buffer/alone time to reflect on yourself, better yourself, and discover things.

THEN you can look for another woman who is better than the last.


To answer you questions:

NO your guilt isn't warranted, it's inside your head, you're the one holding yourself back.

YES you need to move on and cut her off FINALLY.

If you aren't interested in an LTR with her, and she is, then it's time to move on.


I don't care if she's a "real" friend YOU CANNOT BACK TO BEING FRIENDS.

I don't care what you say, once you bang her and start seeing her, YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS AGAIN.

Especially in your case, she adores you, she wants you bad, YOU CAN'T BE FRIENDS AGAIN.

The most important thing to do is to tell her, you aren't the guy for her, you don't see the relationship going anywhere, and that you don't want to waste anymore of her time.

"Bu...butt...butt, we can't be friends ?"

NO, you can't be friends, you don't want to lead her on anymore, it's impossible to be friends and heal, you both need to move on.


The DO NO CONTACT RULE/THREAD is the biggest obstacle ahead for you.


Do yourself and read these Jariel Real Talk Sessions:

Real Talk Sessions: The One Thing To Remember When You Leave Her

Real Talk Sessions: The Only Rule For Ex's

Real Talk Sessions: You Care Too Damn Much

[Vaun]

Eddie, you are in a tough spot with this girl. I just broke up with one like this, almost the exact scenario, but at the 7 month mark. I wasn't falling for this girl. Being with her was great, very chill, relaxing and the sex was over the top, insanely good. But I was dating other girls, and she could sense it, and I couldn't commit. She didn't really push me on it, but I don't want to waste this girls time. Being a hot girl, she could land some guy who is going to flip out over her and give her the real deal. She would never get that from me, so I said goodbye. And she was pissed. But sometime you have to do that to ultimately get what you want.

[Eddie Winslow]

Broke it off a couple hours ago and the message was 100% clear. She cried and it felt horrible, but the guilt and feelings of remorse are starting to dissipate. That's the first time in my life I've ever broken up with a girl face-to-face, everything else has been via text, call, ghosting, caught cheating/sabotage, or me being the one getting dumped.

It was a horrible fear of mine I've never faced so I'm glad I did. Hopefully I can continue to create and enforce healthy boundaries like this in the future.

[bgbusiness]

OP, sorry to hear that.

However, with all due respect, you mentioned that you were "lonely" and this sparks a little curiosity in me.
From this statement, I would suspect that you didn't possibly have a strong "purpose" in your life that was bigger than this girl. Furthermore you might have not fully maximized other aspect in your life such a hobby, passion or a healthy group of male friends. I would focus on these first rather than trying to have a solid relationship if you haven't already...
(I am absolutely not saying that I have my life perfectly set up and banging 9s and 10s every other week, just my two cents. However, I did recently just end pretty long on & off relationship of almost 8 months and it really didn't scratch my frame much and didn't really effect me at all, didn't even cry or anything, I just moved on pretty quickly and I don't think about her at all, I ended it on my terms as I knew it is not going anywhere, but the sex was crazy and one of the best.)

In terms of her texting or talking to some other dudes...I don't think that was your fault at all.
I don't think it matters if you kinda of ignored/delayed/post-poned her offer of "commitment" previously in the first few months as you have described. If she really liked you and possibly loved you, she should have not done what she has done imho.
If you just completely told her that flat out she is not going to be LTR, then she can do whatever the fuck she wants, but even then if she wanted some kind of relationship, she should have still kept her best behaviors.

I have had girls who knew that I was seeing other chicks, but they didn't go talk to other guys and try to PROVOKE shit and create some BULLSHIT jealousy plots, imo that's not the behavior of a girl who wants commitment, that's just a drama queen/attention whore. Idk what her lay count is, if it's higher than 3, I would just pass and consider that you dodged a bullet.
IMHO either she is in it or she is not. Maybe she did not like the fact that you weren't committing super quick in the first few months, but if she wanted you, she should have continued to only see you unless you straight up told her that she won't be LTR.
Even then I think if she liked you enough, she would have only talked to you.

In addition, you said you went on a quick trip with her?
Is this the first trip you guys have went on exclusively? or has this happened a lot of times?
If it was first, she should have thought that she is getting close to the commitment and don't do any stupid shit like talking to another guy if she wanted the commitment.

Wish you the best in your future endeavors.

Cheers.

[kaotic]

(09-24-2017 03:41 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

Broke it off a couple hours ago and the message was 100% clear. She cried and it felt horrible, but the guilt and feelings of remorse are starting to dissipate. That's the first time in my life I've ever broken up with a girl face-to-face, everything else has been via text, call, ghosting, caught cheating/sabotage, or me being the one getting dumped.

It was a horrible fear of mine I've never faced so I'm glad I did. Hopefully I can continue to create and enforce healthy boundaries like this in the future.

I had to do the exact same thing face to face in person with a girl I loved but couldn't give her what she wanted in the future (kids and marriage).

If it helps read my break up thread on it:

thread-52295.html

You can always vent in the players log or the no contact thread.

We're all here for you.

[Dalaran1991]

Gold thread.

Next summer I will be probably be forced to do the same thing to my girl.

I think some of the hardest lessons in life to swallow is this: sometimes we must put an end to things that work perfectly well.

It goes against most logic / sentiment because why change something if it's working, and working well?

But I think the hallmark of masculine growth and wisdom is the ability to recognize that even good things eventually hit a dead end. And if you can not make it evolve into something better (dating => LTR => marriage => kids => grandkids, etc.) then it's better to end it than to waste everyone's time.

You have to do this for you and for her though. Obviously she would be in great pain, crying (fuck this) and you will be the villain. But eventually you will fade and make room for someone who's better suited to take care of her (immediate) needs.

Eddie, if it helps, I suggest getting 100% into sports or combat sports. The chaos of emotion gives you awesome energy to spill on the mat. It also boosts your testo and reinforces your mental state.