[kaotic]

I was on the fence on moving this to the newbie section (admins please do so if warranted)

Usually I’m the one on here trying to advise, provide input, question, and supporting my fellow RVF’ers.

There comes a time where even a seasoned vet needs help in life, which is what I’m truly asking from you gents.

I’ve come to a possible fork in the road with my LTR, I’ll give some basics first.

Her(Pros/Cons):
-2 year LTR coming up in a few months (I still bang constantly on the side)
-Mid 20’s (I’m in my very late 20’s)
-Looks department solid 8 – body I’d say a 7.5 (Runway mode like body, small tits, no big ass)
-People always compliment her on how pretty she is
-Low notch count, I believe her when she says 5 including me.
-Does have tattoos and her tongue pierced
-Very submissive and quiet. Isn’t loud nor obnoxious, even when drinking.
-Low Maintenance, I don’t spend much on her, we pay for eachothers stuff all the time
-Constant Cigg Smoker and Weed Smoker (Doesn’t do it around me, but will smokes ciggs outside)
-Fulltime Bartender at a restaurant– also waitresses a day or 2 a week
-VERY much a daddy’s girl, close to her father, good relationship with her mother
-She does come from a lower income family, her father is disabled and can’t work, her mother works fulltime
-Single Child – also close to her grandparents on her father’s side as well.
-Very feminine, dresses well/conservatively, always has her nails and make up done.
-Has that Latina temper and can get jealous if I say hi to a girl. (Especially when drinking)
-She can very passionate and emotional about our relationship at times.

Our LTR:
-Almost 2 years
-Very loyal, loves me to death, sex when I want it, got me cuffs and whips.
-I’m friendly with her parents and grandparents, I rarely see them, since they’re local to her.
-Loves just being with me, doesn’t mind not going out, we do travel, go to concerts together etc.
-My friends love her, a few ask when I’m locking her down for good
-We hangout about 2 days a week, occasionally 3 times a week. (Our schedule doesn’t let us meet more)
-She drives over 40 minutes to me and spends the night or meets me near my work and drive to my pad
-She gave me the “what are we talk” after a few months of seeing each other and catching me on tinder (I denied till I died said it was a crazy ex catfishing me)
-She also told me she loves me first whilst breaking down about a serious issue (see below)
-We complement each other’s lives and never really fight, no belittling arguments either.

Serious Events:
-She had an abortion
-I got herpes, but didn’t have sex with her until I cleared.
-It’s been over a year and I haven’t had a breakout (I’m almost positive she never got it)
-About a month ago she had the “where are we going conversation”. Thinking about marriage, kids, etc. I told her I don’t know if I want kids yet, marriage rates look dismal, worried about divorces, child custody etc.
-Her father is very slowly dying of a unique disease that can’t really be healed – she wants to be married and have children before she’s 30 so her children have some recollection of her father.

The latest situation that brought this post up:

We’re at a bar, hanging out with my friends. I take a piss and as I walk out of this pisser a girl calls my name, this cute Persian girl that frequents my work, we chat for a bit, and I politely eject.

My girl in her Latina way immediately asks who that bitch was and how she doesn’t like her and why I didn’t introduce her. I simply tell my girl, that girl I said hi to drops money at my work, along with her family, of course I’m going to say hi. My girl gets butt hurt about it and I tell her to calm down, she does a bit. I’m talking to my friends about some stuff and not paying attention to my main, she huffs and goes outside to smoke. Eventually she decides to get food, calls and asks what I want then heads to my house.

We start bickering a bit when she’s outside my house, I tell her to get inside, we don’t even eat and she starts crying in bed.

She tells me that we don’t have as much as attention as she wants, and that she wants to see me MORE than 2 days a week. As in she needs more of me in her life because she loves me so much. The distance is tough also.

I basically tell her that’s hard to change since we both have schedules that let us only see each other 2 days a week. We’re both not going to quit our jobs over it and we’re both not in a position to move. Eventually she settles down and we pass out – of course she’s upset the entire day.

We had a conversation over the weekend on my way to work about what we should do and what needs to happen.

I reiterate that it’s something we really can’t change and we’ll need to figure out what to do next. I ask her do we need to put this on hiatus to figure things out, I suggest talking about in person as well. She cries on the phone saying it hurts.

She tells me that everything is great with us, that I helped her through everything (abortion/herpes) it just that she wants more of it, more of seeing me. She can’t be without me.

She says something that made me feel bad, she said if we broke up that she’d be fucked, because of the Herpes. My gut kind of turned but I told her there’s no way she got it, I hadn’t had an outbreak, she never has had an initial outbreak. Basically she was saying she’d be damaged goods.

I keep telling her that’s not the case and that we need to talk about it in person, that time is tonight.


Summary:

I’m going to be honest – I do love her and enjoy being around her, she’s pretty rad – but banging this perky tight 22 year old Indian girl last week, reminded me what I can still get.

I’ve told her before if she’s going to want a future, she needs to stop smoking at least cigarettes immediately, and weed later on.
Her parents smoke ciggs and weed also. I’m also worried about her family not having much of an income.
I’m very worried about her father passing away and in the next few years, I’m not sure I could handle her heartbreak.

She’s a great girl, she’s pretty, very low maintenance, but I’m just not sure what the next steps can be. I do want to have an open and honest talk with her. I just have a sinking feeling about what can happen, and that’s natural for someone you’ve been with for a while, care for, and love.

Usually I’m flirty and sarcastic with girls, but with her I just don’t give a fuck and act how I want, and she loves that.

Our schedules are what they are, I’ve told her that if she can’t handle it then maybe she’ll have to find it elsewhere.

But finding a feminine, low notch, genuinely sweet girl with latin sass is sometimes a needle in a haystack. (I know I know, pussy on the pedestal)

I'm a bit lost on this - I'm a bit scared about the future as in -
-committing to her and eventually having children with her.
-there's alot to that since financially I can't afford a family on my income
-the whole cigg and smoking for years thing worries me
-i'm not sure i'm ready or want children (yet or ever)
-I don't want to waste her biological clock if she's looking to have children in the next few years. That's not fair to her.
-I also don't want to waste our time if we can't find some resolution to this.


I’d really appreciate veteran player (newbies are more than welcome) input on this – indeed this is a tough road to navigate.

Please PM me or ask me on here if you need more personal details or have any additional questions.

Much love and happy holidays.

[Travesty]

Seriously if someone had a pistol pointed at your nuts and they had a lie detector hooked up to you - are you in it with her for life?

I'd say cigarette smoking is the only thing that has to go.

If she wasn't a daddy's girl with good parents and grand parents I would be much more alarmed (bartender, smoker, tattoos, tongue piercing, emotional temper), I think this evens it out a bit though.

It does sound like you are running out of time to decide though for her sake.

I look forward to your posts that give tips on which baby diapers can take the most shit.

[Onto]

This girl and your relationship has as many red flags as China, but that's how love is a lot of the time.

Most relationships that last the 1 1/2 - 2 year point come to the fork in the road. Either get engaged or break up. There's a metaphysical reason for this, but I don't want to go off-topic, unless you really want to know.

So you're now at that point and she is playing every card she's got. Sick Dad, your cheating, your herpes, etc.

You know how this is all going to end up if you get married. It will be nice for a little while, but the same old negatives come back. She'll get pregnant and things will be good for a while and then the same old negatives come back, along with a lot of new ones.

You'll cheat on her, or she'll cheat on you and you'll be divorce-raped and relegated to an every-other weekend babysitter with a decades long financial hole in your pocket.

[kaotic]

Trav I'm literally at that point right now, I'm in the chair with a gun on my balls. I did laugh at your last line lol.

Onto - I should reinstate that I was never caught cheating, she did believe that an ex catfished me. I don't really have the thought that she's cheating on me, or has/had, my gut hasn't told me that yet nor have I seen signs.

What other red flags besides the possible obvious do you see that I might now ? Any details would be helpful.

I'll PM you about your other thought on this so we don't derail this thread.

[Travesty]

The big question is are you ready to have a child in the next 3 years?

If not it sounds like you would be fucking her over if she is smart enough to want to start having kids before 30.

[kaotic]

My good friend just had his child, holding that baby was honestly alien, maybe I have an emotional disconnect. I mean I was stoked for him but honestly, I don't see myself having children in 3 years, it's a little too early. But I don't know if things can change from then till now. Yes, I'd be fucking her over, I agree on that.

[Travesty]

Yeah well I would say that's that then. You know if you hold out with her for another 2 years then get caught cheating or dump her you are screwing over her chances to find the best quality guy that would want a family with her.

I'd question if you think you want kids with her, it sounds like that would also mean a financial, career, job overhaul which is an entire different ball game to contend with.

Also is she cool without marriage? California is alimony for life after 10 years player with a 70% divorce rate. I like casinos as much as the next guy.

[kaotic]

Pretty sure she wanted marriage, I DID point out one of my best friends and my friend never got married nor are engaged, have a child, and they have a great life (albeit wealthy parents supporting them).

She sound a bit old school about that. I agree, the last thing I want to do is fuck her over in her chances of getting married and having children.

[Onto]

(12-14-2015 06:37 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Onto - I should reinstate that I was never caught cheating, she did believe that an ex catfished me. I don't really have the thought that she's cheating on me, or has/had, my gut hasn't told me that yet nor have I seen signs.

What other red flags besides the possible obvious do you see that I might now ? Any details would be helpful.

I'll PM you about your other thought on this so we don't derail this thread.

You may not have been caught yet, but it's only a matter of time. It's possible she even knows, but let's it slide. Many native latina's understand the need for a man to have something on the side every now and then so long as it's not serious. I was under the impression she knows you cheated because you told her about catching herpes. Maybe I misunderstood that?

Her Red Flags

- She smokes. (Smoking is a way of coping with the negative in life). Since it also has nicotine there is a large physical addiction at play, but the biggest part of it is psychological. I wouldn't advise marrying a woman who reaches for the cigarette, bowl, or booze as a way of coping with living a life.

- She has tattoos. When a woman gets a tattoo she is stating, "I am in control of my own identity and no man will ever own me." She is literally branded already, and as such, no man will ever be able to place his brand on her.

- She has a tongue piercing. These girls are super hot in bed. I've had a few and they are tons of fun but in my experience too wild to ever make a good wife and mother. It's painful to get your tongue pierced. I've noticed girls that do this had a painful hurt inside of some kind.

- She's a bartender. Bartenders have a problematic relationship to alcohol. Being a bartender often helps them control it because they get satisfaction out of the other being drunk. If they can't do that, then they are the ones that will become the drunk. Sometimes it's 50/50. Women who are bartenders usually have a Goddess complex where they enjoy the attention and want to be adored by all the men. Besides all of that, a profession where she is being made available to single men in a drinking atmosphere is recipe for disaster. In my opinion, hot, women bartenders are just one rung above a stripper. Lot of fun, but not wife material.

- If she knows you cheat, and I would bet she does, then she has some kind of thing about infidelity and that will come into play in your marriage in some way later on.

LTR Flags

- If you only see each other two to three times a week for the past 2 years it's not nearly frequent enough to know, "we're great together, let's get married". It's not a long-distance relationship, but it's not that far from it. What will happen when you are together everyday? She is hoping that it will save the relationship. The suggestion did come during a fight.

- You cheat on her all the time. I would be surprised if she doesn't know that. Why does she want to be with a cheater? It's because she has a question about it. This kind of question, for women, usually come about from being a Daddy's girl. That's a whole other thing to explain.

Daddy's Girl

Her being a Daddy's girl is not a good thing. Most adultresses were Daddy's girls. Every child at some point tries to win the parent of the opposite sex over from the other parent. In her case she tries to win her Father from her Mother. If she succeeds, (by him siding with her over his wife, paying special attention to her, having a closer bond than with his wife), she will feel a strong sense of fault for it because she has broken up the union of the masculine/feminine as it's symbolized in her parents. What parents should do when this happens is form a united front against the child, but that often doesn't happen. And the reasons for that would take us off-topic.

Later in life she may be attracted to married men. If she does it's because she unconsciously wants to re-create her childhood drama of winning the Father from the Mother (The wife) with the secret hope she will fail and the union of the masculine/feminine will stay in tact. It's why more often than not the mistress becomes disinterested when the married man actually leaves his wife for her.

Has she ever been involved with a married man? Older man? Involved with a friend's boyfriend?

How this relates to your cheating, I'm not sure. Maybe she's identifying with the Mother always trying to keep the Father from being taken away

Whatever it is, it doesn't sound like a good foundation for a healthy, long-lasting marriage.

I got your PM about explaining the metaphysical reason for the 1 1/2 - 2 year fork in the road. I'll write it here in case anyone is interested also.

The Fork in the Road

Before we get to the fork in the road we have to go back to the beginning. Before we meet "The One", we have an idea, a face-less image of what they would be. When we meet someone that seems to check of the all the boxes, usually just one or two are enough, we are enthralled and think "we've found them at last".

The desire to find the One is so strong we put on blinders, only seeing the things we want to, the things that re-inforce our idea of having the One. And it works....for a little while. Problem is people are full of all sorts of faults and after a while we just can't help but start seeing them. They were always there, but we literally had put blinders on ourselves so that we can hold onto the illusion. To hold onto the precious.

After about a year or two the sense of lack and empty-ness comes back. We don't know why, but it's there again, like it was before we met our ltr. Something is missing in the relationship.

This is the first fork in the road, where you either break-up or decide the reason why your ltr is unfulfilling is because you need to get married! Then, and finally then you will be happy and fulfilled. So then each of you become elated and happy while you plan out your engagement. The planning becomes the central focus of the relationship, and is enough to swat away the pesky questions and concerns about the other and the nature of your relation.

So after the marriage, there is the honeymoon and all is great, but as they say, the honeymoon doesn't last forever. This is because the questions and concerns come back again and this time with greater force, and so comes the next fork in the road. Either get divorced or have a child.

So you decide what's really missing is a child and again comes the elation, the planning, and the questions/concerns get swept away....for a time....but after the child is born....well that is a whole other ball of wax.

Fork in the road. Another child? Fork in the road. How about a side-piece?

Well, I know it's not romantic, but there it is. The normal and often played out blueprint for most modern-day relationships.

Edit: I would tell her she needs to quit smoking (cigs and weed) and drinking (heavily) for at least a couple years before you consider marriage. See if she can do it. I would also suggest she quit the bartending/waitress job and get work that is more aligned with your schedule.

[The Lizard of Oz]

kaotic,

The main problem with this girl as a wife/mother of your children prospect is that she is a lower class girl. Not only that, but she comes from a very different background from yours (her: Latina and lower class, you: Indian Muslim and from what I can tell, solidly middle class). This is something that is not a big deal when you're just seeing a girl twice a week and there is nothing to do but go out, talk, and have sex; but it can become a very big deal when you need to live together with someone and raise a family.

People from lower classes grow up with a different set of expectations and behaviors than people from the middle class, and that is something that is very tough to change. You see it now with the cigarettes, weed, tats, piercings, and bartending, but there will very possibly be other and worse types of lower class behavior down the line. And if and when she is married and more confident/secure in her future, that will tend to come out in all sorts of ways. That doesn't mean that she isn't a nice enough girl or that she is pretending to be something she's not; it's just human nature and female nature.

At the very least, I would say that she needs to give up cigarette smoking immediately for you to even contemplate her as a future wife and mother of your children. First, because smoking is bad news and it's definitely NOT something you ever want in a woman; and second, because that will show that she is submissive in a way that counts, and willing to change and abandon certain bad lower class behaviors for you. Of course she may say she'll do it, and then smoke anyway when you're not looking; but see if she's even willing to make the verbal commitment. In truth, this is something that should have been done already, but never mind.

In short, even though she may well be a nice enough girl who genuinely likes you, her lower class background, and the behaviors and expectations that it entails, is a serious problem as far as seeing her as a wife and mother of your children. At a minimum, she must be willing to demonstrate a pointed willingness to give up smoking and to behave in ways that you ask for. If she can't even do that, then you have your answer.

[kaotic]

Onto thanks for the reply.

I basically explained to my ltr that my ex has cheated on me and had given it to me.

She does bartend but at a small family owned resteraunt. Im the drinker of us 2, she'll usually have one or 2, then just want to go home and lay with me. She doesn't drink at work, in fact the woman you decribe is her coworker.

But you're right it does give single men access to her.

Her mother actually cheated on her father and there was a year or 2 gap where she sided with her father and lived with him while her mom did her own thing. I think that was a major thing to of happened and why she's so close to her dad.

I believe she went on a few dates with an older man for what she claims and didn't sleep with him.

She's never been a homewrecker, in fact a friend of hers ended up sleeping with her then current BF.

From what I'm reading she doesn't sound like she's in the right mindset for an LTR and serious move into it.

I don't believe in a one, but people that you can become very compatible with and that complement your life.

Im going to talk to her tonight and lay some things down on her. Especially that last part.

Any other advice or observations are helpful.

[Courage Reborn]

She wants children now'ish, and you don't. You're comfortable with the status quo. Her wants aren't being met. She's giving you a soft ultimatum now. You need to decide soon.

Clearly you do not want kids now'ish. The only reason you would have them with this woman is for fear of losing her, and that you won't find another as good as her. This is a terrible reason to do it.

Rather than making your decision based on avoiding regret, you should decide based on what you really want. It sounds like you don't have your money right. This in turn is limiting your freedom and choice. It's making you second guess your options in life, and allowing this women to make you second guess what YOU really want.

You're debating weather to settle, or not to settle for this chick, and what she wants. Your answer to that question comes down to if you want to keep on the comfortable path you're on now, or if you're willing to take a risk, shake up your work/relationship situation, and get on a higher path to more money, better women, and ultimately more options & freedom.

Of course, the higher path isn't easy, or even clear. You need to look to more established men to get yourself there (business books, podcasts, videos are a good start).

Based on your age, either choice will be fine. You will experience joy, regret, and growth with either choice. But being true to yourself. True to what it is YOU really want out of life as your own man is most important. As long as you choose based on this, you will make the right decision.

[TheFinalEpic]

I'll take a stab.

I think that you've got a good thing currently, but in a few years/after the kid and the white dress there are going to be serious complications. I can already see there are enough red flags that Onto already brought up, and the smoking alone disqualifies her unless it is given up. The thing with the mother cheating on the father... I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole in committed regards (I've seen what happens to not only divorced-parent girls but also those that have had inter-family turmoil; they hold resentment even if it is not out in the open).

Personally I enjoy the situation in which you're running, I have two girls currently that I am doing the same thing with, albeit I'm still in my early 20's; I think that if you can maintain the situation without getting trapped in a marriage (having a child out of wedlock is fine as long as she's not a deadbeat and you'll still be together with the kid I think is totally fine) you've got the best of both worlds: still bang on the side and stability at home.

As stated by Onto and Oz, you're at the crossroads. You don't live together: and that's where I think she's going with this rather than the "all-in" of marriage. You could attempt this before anything else, but also remember that caving to the whims of a female is a slippery slope, and they can never get enough. You would also be around her more and only seeing a girl two-three times a week is not enough to gauge her character when you're not looking. In private, there will be nothing to hide, nothing to overlook; you will see her at her worst, and as such, will be able to plan your next move. This is what I believe would be optimal for you at this moment in time: don't talk about marriage, tell her to drop the cigs and weed, and suggest a trial run of living together if you want to see what she's really made of.

[Onto]

(12-14-2015 08:29 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Her mother actually cheated on her father and there was a year or 2 gap where she sided with her father and lived with him while her mom did her own thing. I think that was a major thing to of happened and why she's so close to her dad.

I believe she went on a few dates with an older man for what she claims and didn't sleep with him.

She's never been a homewrecker, in fact a friend of hers ended up sleeping with her then current BF.

She picked a friend that was like her Mother.

So this whole thing really explains her relation to cheating. My mother cheated on my Father also and it absolutely played a negative force in my relationships as an adult. Often getting involved with women who had the propensity to cheat.

Poor girl, it's one thing for the Father to cheat, but for the Mother to do it and then lose the Mother out of her life because of it.

I don't know how old she was when that happened, but kids just don't grow up normal after that. She's been re-creating the cheating event in her adult life, as the victim, because she really was one as a child.

If you marry her and have a child then she will become the Mother and we know what her Mother did. It's possible she might unconsciously put herself into a situation where she will be tempted to cheat and implode the marriage, with the hopes of somehow stopping it in time. Or you'll just play the role of the cheater and she'll somehow convince you not too.

Either way, that's a big part of the foundation in her relationships. It's a tough one to overcome. She could work through it if she has enough experiences where she fails, or succeeds so she doesn't feel the need to re-create it. She could also overcome it through insight, but that's not easy to do and requires professional help. You could also talk about it with her to see how she felt about all of that as a child.

During our childhood we'll often encounter a big event that will put us into question. The question, "Is this the way life is and should be?"

As adults we unconsciously re-create our childhood to get back to that question for the purpose of either:

1) Affirming, "Yes, that's the way it should've been and will be now"

or

2) "No, it should not have been that way, and I will fix it and make sure that never happens"

The problem with #2 is we have to re-create the circumstances that led up to the event and as a child, we didn't understand why the world and people were a certain way. So as adults we might find ourselves having an "Oh-shit" moment when we realize there was a whole lot more to it than we thought. And now we have put ourselves in a big mess.

No doubt, her knowledge of her Mother's infidelity raised a very big question within her.

[TheFinalEpic]

(12-14-2015 09:02 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 08:29 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Her mother actually cheated on her father and there was a year or 2 gap where she sided with her father and lived with him while her mom did her own thing. I think that was a major thing to of happened and why she's so close to her dad.

I believe she went on a few dates with an older man for what she claims and didn't sleep with him.

She's never been a homewrecker, in fact a friend of hers ended up sleeping with her then current BF.

She picked a friend that was like her Mother.

So this whole thing really explains her relation to cheating. My mother cheated on my Father also and it absolutely played a negative force in my relationships as an adult. Often getting involved with women who had the propensity to cheat.

Poor girl, it's one thing for the Father to cheat, but for the Mother to do it and then lose the Mother out of her life because of it.

I don't know how old she was when that happened, but kids just don't grow up normal after that. She's been re-creating the cheating event in her adult life, as the victim, because she really was one as a child.

If you marry her and have a child then she will become the Mother and we know what her Mother did. It's possible she might unconsciously put herself into a situation where she will be tempted to cheat and implode the marriage, with the hopes of somehow stopping it in time. Or you'll just play the role of the cheater and she'll somehow convince you not too.

Either way, that's a big part of the foundation in her relationships. It's a tough one to overcome. She could work through it if she has enough experiences where she fails, or succeeds so she doesn't feel the need to re-create it. She could also overcome it through insight, but that's not easy to do and requires professional help. You could also talk about it with her to see how she felt about all of that as a child.

During our childhood we'll often encounter a big event that will put us into question. The question, "Is this the way life is and should be?"

As adults we unconsciously re-create our childhood to get back to that question for the purpose of either:

1) Affirming, "Yes, that's the way it should've been and will be now"

or

2) "No, it should not have been that way, and I will fix it and make sure that never happens"

The problem with #2 is we have to re-create the circumstances that led up to the event and as a child, we didn't understand why the world and people were a certain way. So as adults we might find ourselves having an "Oh-shit" moment when we realize there was a whole lot more to it than we thought. And now we have put ourselves in a big mess.

No doubt, her knowledge of her Mother's infidelity raised a very big question within her.

+1.

The internal family issues for me is more of a red flag than anything else mentioned by you, Kaotic. There is tons of research done on the psychology of that kind of situation, and usually, it's not good; they either become cheaters themselves or have significant trust issues.

One girl I was in a LTR with for over a year had divorced parents and every time I turned around it was "who is this in your phone?!" "who were you talking to at school today, she looked like a whore" It was frustrating to the point that we broke up because she saw a text in my phone and concluded I was cheating. You can't win with that.

[Travesty]

(12-14-2015 08:29 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Her mother actually cheated on her father and there was a year or 2 gap where she sided with her father and lived with him while her mom did her own thing. I think that was a major thing to of happened and why she's so close to her dad.

This is bad.

She just went from a B- prospect to a C- as long term material in my book.

The main woman in her life fucked over her dad. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but this girl sounds like she is good for exactly what you have. A 2 night a week come over let's bang and go out to concerts on the weekends type of girl. She sounds like she has handled her life well but has taken some scars. I feel trap doors down the road.

And as with any post like this about a girl and an important decision if a post had to be made asking for advice your gut is telling you something may be off, and you know better than us.

Beyond any issue she has it sounds like the player animal in you is way too strong still to start something this serious. If it died off a bit and you mellowed out of the game it may be a different story. For example is soup a good guy to be settling down right now and getting a girl pregnant? It would make for an excellent comedy show hah.

And as well for long term material your posts in the Travel section are pretty thin. I know what SoCal girls are like. For the long term real life shit there is much better (70% divorce rate does not speak well). The daily making meals, changing diapers, having loved ones get old and die and so on.

[kaotic]

Im at the gym.

I should note that her father got back with her mother a year or 2 after the mother cheated.

Also, she has mentioned "if she was anyone else id hater her (mother).

Ill try responding when im done here.

[jariel]

I've talked about this before, but guys have got to stop wasting years on the wrong chicks.

If this chick was the "right chick", there wouldn't be any reservations about moving forward.

It doesn't make any sense for you to invest more time in her when you know she's not the type of chick that you would move forward with.

At this point, she's somewhere between a fuck buddy and a girlfriend, and the fact that you're still fucking other chicks, even while you two have been doing your thing says a lot.

It says that you don't care if you lose her.

When people feel they have something to lose, they self-police.

Stop wasting your time, move on, this shit can only get uglier.

[Travesty]

As jariel, WestCoast, MikeCF and others have preached:

Wasting time is one of the biggest drains to any man's life because of a multitude of things. It takes strict discipline to not. I still struggle, but as now an aging guy it is my number one focus - I look in the mirror I don't have as much time as I think I do.

[rudebwoy]

Onto dropped some great advice on here and so did Lizard of Oz, as per usual.

I was curious how you guys view "class"? As in dating girls from a lower or higher class, I consider myself upper middle class. If you believe in that sort of thing.

[jariel]

(12-14-2015 11:02 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Onto dropped some great advice on here and so did Lizard of Oz, as per usual.

I was curious how you guys view "class"? As in dating girls from a lower or higher class, I consider myself upper middle class. If you believe in that sort of thing.

Class is only really a factor when you get into a relationship, if you're just fucking, it's not a real issue -- although I honestly feel if you're of a higher status, there are just certain types of women you should just not fuck with, regardless of level of attractiveness.

I'm against dating "poor girls" unless they are of college age because older, poor girls have money problems and will quickly become financially dependent on you to solve them and upgrade their lifestyles in the process.

In terms of relationships though, guys use money as leverage, always have, always will. It's easier for a guy to date a more attractive chick who comes from nothing when he can expose her to a lifestyle she's never had before -- the guys who tend to be in their universe have nothing just like she does, so they can't offer any type of upgrade, just the continuation of generational poverty, get that while it's hot.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I'll drop my 2c, for what it's worth. I don't know you personally or the person you are dating, so I'm just making assumptions based on your descriptions, so take this with a healthy pinch of salt.

- You like having her around 2 days a week. That doesn't mean you will like having her around 7 days a week. Having had a previous girlfriend who moved in with me, I can honestly say that it's like being with a completely different person. All those 'cute' flaws in her behaviour will became grating nails-on-chalk sensations when you have to endure it every f***ing day.

- You like side bangs. You will have a much harder time side banging if you she is living with you. You need to understand that there is a theoretical possibility that this will be the only chick you will ever bang for the rest of your life - is she worth the commitment?

- She will never give up smoking for you. If she was going to, she would have done so already.

- The ultimatums strongly imply that she is a predatory female. She will become a monster once she knows you are on lock down. Read this book

- Lastly, I don't think any relationship will truly work out in the long time unless it is based on a firm foundation of faith/values/religion. Both parties need to submit, to some extent, to an external moderator (even if might just be an imaginary one) or else they will end up trying to build a relationship of two people based on their own self-centred individual desires, which seems to only breed disaster. In other words, are you willing to go to church (or whatever mutually agreeable substitute you can find) with this girl, and would she be comfortable being religious? A woman ought to be able to sit through a sermon and then be able to mention a few talking points about it afterwards. If she's squirming through a sermon or a prayer, it means she cannot submit, which means she is not wife material.

[BassPlayaYo]

If you're looking for a partner then you should be looking seriously at the earning potential of the partner. Money matters to women, it should also matter to men, especially when you're thinking about signing on the dotted line. OP your in your late twenties, there's just so much life ahead of you, one word: ABUNDANCE!

[Onto]

(12-14-2015 11:02 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Onto dropped some great advice on here and so did Lizard of Oz, as per usual.

I was curious how you guys view "class"? As in dating girls from a lower or higher class, I consider myself upper middle class. If you believe in that sort of thing.

I can see how lower class girls can be more problematic because the environment they are raised in tends to get passed down from generation to generation.

It really depends on the girl and her family though. There's a correlation for sure, but I don't think it's an absolute.

I come from upper middle class and dated a lot of lower class to middle class girls in High School. One middle class girl went on to become an eye doctor, but she didn't smoke, have tattoos, tongue piercings or come from a broken home.

The #1 factor that determines the kind of woman we date is ourselves.

[kaotic]

Overall, she makes good money being a bartender, actually has a better car than I do, she did live on her own in another state, but her parents certainly live in a not so nice part of a town 45 minutes away.

She doesn't have a college education. She isn't necessarily poor literally, but perhaps raised in a bit of a poor situation.

She doesn't act trashy, perhaps she made some poor life choices with the tattoos and piercings. But she dresses well, acts classy, and I'd say does act middle class.

I think I just liked the chase of new girls, but my emotions were grounded and passionate with my main - I know it sounds contradicting but it's how I viewed things.

Update:

It's all over.

I got out of the gym and we met up near my work and she came into my car.

I handed her a gift that I ordered for her father, but was being given by her. I wanted to make sure I got that out of the way before she refused it.

We talked - I summarized what we talked about:
-She wants kids and marriage in a few years or so and I can't give her that
-It's not fair for me to lead her on like a carrot on a stick and then fuck her over and bail
-I told her if she wanted to see me more she'd have to quit her job, she countered that she can't it pays the bills and she gets paid well
-I love her and care for her so this is why I'm being honest and talking now
-I don't want to waste her time and I don't want to waste mine
-I'm positive she hasn't gotten the herpes from me, I was rational about it
-This was a tough decision but it's better now than later
-I really don't know what I want or where I'll be in a few years
-I don't think I'm financially ready to handle a family and her
-We can't adjust our schedules to see each other more and the distance is far
-I didn't bring up her smoking ciggs or weed

It was really tough to talk about it with her. My gut was telling me I was confused and wasn't sure, but I kept reminding me of the logic at it all. We both told eachother we loved eachother

She was crying and thanked me for being honest and was really appreciative that I was telling her all this now than later. She understands that I'm not sure about what I want, she told me a few times "if you ever change your mind don't hesitate to let me know"

I kind of side stepped that and told her that I understand but we'll need some time apart, I'll get it if she doesn't want to talk me.

We sat there quiet a bit and talked about a few other things. She wiper her tears and got into her call real quick and gave me her gifts to me - one was funny, the other was something I needed. We laughed a bit, hugged eachother, held eachother for a bit, we were both pretty bummed.

She told me don't hesitate to call her and that she understands, thanked me for doing this now, and also said if I ever change my mind to let her know. I thanked her for the gifts and took off.

Immediately driving away I got super bummed, saying to myself "I didn't want this to happen, it doesn't feel right" I calmed myself and thought to myself that this needed to be done instead of wasting our time.

This is a pretty fucked up end of the year and for the holidays, this isn't what I wanted to end the year with, yeah I feel a bit bad about having this before the holidays and shortly before our 2 year anniversary.


It needed to be done.


She hit me up right now asking what dress shirts I needed, I told her not to worry about it. I already ordered a gift for her awhile back, so I'll be dropping that off at her house.

She's a really sweet, kind, genuine girl, but she wants something soon and I can't give that to her right now.



I'll admit I'm on a roller coaster right now, I just feel drained of energy. I know it'll be okay in the long run, but this is a tough pill to swallow right now.



Anyways, I'm passing out, I'll update you guys later.