[IDrinkYourMilkShake]

Great stuff here as usual. If we go back to knife-fighting, I have never been in such situation, personally, but my impression is that if you are alone escaping is the only option. Knifes are quick and any attempt to dissarm the guy from it is to risky, like with the example belowe, starts at 12:09(and they speak english then).

I have no experience with FMA, Silat or Wing Chun but would like to try it. Anyway I guess you guys are familiar with dog brothers, who tries to empiricly test variations of it.

Long doc about them here:

Lastly, TK whats your take on this guy? He says that he is teaching systema.

[TravelerKai]

(07-20-2016 02:07 AM)IDrinkYourMilkShake Wrote:  

Great stuff here as usual. If we go back to knife-fighting, I have never been in such situation, personally, but my impression is that if you are alone escaping is the only option. Knifes are quick and any attempt to dissarm the guy from it is to risky, like with the example belowe, starts at 12:09(and they speak english then).

I have no experience with FMA, Silat or Wing Chun but would like to try it. Anyway I guess you guys are familiar with dog brothers, who tries to empiricly test variations of it.


Long doc about them here:


Lastly, TK whats your take on this guy? He says that he is teaching systema.

Those guys in the first video are not correct in my opinion. No one ever said, you won't get cut trying to disarm a knife in an attack. No one who has ever learned real knife fighting will ever do what that guy did either. He flailed his arms around like he was not trained at all. It was ridiculous. Flat out absurd really. On further insult the instructor even did the wrist lock at the end wrong!!!

I cannot speak for every self defense trained person, but if I miss the first stab, I am very likely to sprawl or use my whole body and actually get closer and make an adjustment to grab his arm instead. Headbutts, shoulder slams (like that Korean guy), kesagitame, arm locks, Judo leg trips, etc. are all fair game at that point. If the dude is huge and powerful, Judo/BJJ submissions will likely be my last resort. Only downside is that if he is not the only attacker.

If that is the case, then disarming with proper JJ wrist techniques is not just the only option, but using his knife to cut his throat, and do it within 10 seconds becomes priority to be ready for use against his buddies.

Japanese JuJitsu was created for war and for Japanese armies. That is a fact. You were trained to disarm correctly, then kill quickly, was because wasting movements like that got you stabbed or killed on the battlefield. Repetition and practice was crucial in that regard. Sometimes these modern systems guys think too much and do not understand the history well enough to know why the techniques and progressions were created in the first place. Sometimes there is no shortcut on learning and you have to practice it enough until it is second nature.

You had to know how to take away a long katana down to a short tanto if you wanted to survive a battle if you were disarmed or grabbed. Judo was created because JJ students were getting killed and hurt in practice, going full speed, and also because the dictates of Japanese JuJitsu is that you must finish all techniques with a kill.



Yes that is correct Allen, we are talking about blood and death at practice....


On the Korean guy, I do not see any actual Systema on either video. He is showing a bunch of different styles and he allegedly knows 15 styles of martial arts. He looks impressive to me as a martial artist in general. He takes strength, fitness, and sparring seriously enough as well.

I did find this:

It's obvious to me that he has a dominant strength in Korean Martial Arts and Jeet Kune Do. He studied alot of other stuff and you can see the influence. The Systema stuff he showed in the video I found is correct, just has his flavor in it a little bit. He is also an accredited school for Systema. A lot of old Jeet Kune Do guys switched over to Krav Maga, MMA, Systema, etc. starting back in the late 90s and 2000s. They mix everything they know and are very Bruce Lee at heart.

If you wanted to check him out, I would recommend that based upon what I see so far.

[TravelerKai]

Here is a good video example of why the instructor was wrong from that first video

Watch from 0-40 seconds in. (Notice how he shows how you can cut the attacker with their own knife and why bringing the knife up high is wrong.)


Watch the first 50 seconds of this video.

Notice how he uses the knife to simulate killing the attacker? That is correct way to do it. You dispatch the attacker and finish him so that you can be ready for the next attacker.

That is the correct concept and mindset you have to have when defending against knife attacks or just about any self defense situation.

[TravelerKai]

Just to clarify a little bit, stabbing an attacker you have just overpowered might be excessive force in your state, country, etc. If you stab them or cut them in the motion of the move, it is not usually. Certain places in the world might not be worth using a weapon against an attacker due to racist or nationalist onlookers/sympathizers might want to jump you regardless of the fact a piece of scum from their country just tried to rob or kill you. (China, South East Asia, Russia, Middle East, Latin America, Italy, France, or Eastern Europe are all fair game for this) In those cases, take their weapon and call the police immediately. Don't chase the attacker. Don't expect help or sympathy from onlookers, if they help great, but don't be stupid, look after number 1 (yourself).

[Rocha]

TravelerKai, just one question. Have you ever been knife attacked in a real life situation?

Fortunately I have never been, but I think that 10 seconds is an eternity in any kind of street altercation.

Quote:

I cannot speak for every self defense trained person, but if I miss the first stab, I am very likely to sprawl or use my whole body and actually get closer and make an adjustment to grab his arm instead. Headbutts, shoulder slams (like that Korean guy), kesagitame, arm locks, Judo leg trips, etc. are all fair game at that point. If the dude is huge and powerful, Judo/BJJ submissions will likely be my last resort. Only downside is that if he is not the only attacker.

If that is the case, then disarming with proper JJ wrist techniques is not just the only option, but using his knife to cut his throat, and do it within 10 seconds becomes priority to be ready for use against his buddies.

Just another note regarding the below quote, I see where you are coming from, but
saying that generally the whole of the world except Africa and North America are fair game for attacks of racist and nationalistic origin, seems to me biased to say the least.

Quote:

Just to clarify a little bit, stabbing an attacker you have just overpowered might be excessive force in your state, country, etc. If you stab them or cut them in the motion of the move, it is not usually. Certain places in the world might not be worth using a weapon against an attacker due to racist or nationalist onlookers/sympathizers might want to jump you regardless of the fact a piece of scum from their country just tried to rob or kill you. (China, South East Asia, Russia, Middle East, Latin America, Italy, France, or Eastern Europe are all fair game for this)

[kinjutsu]

He has some great points in the beginning...
Although i'm not so hot on the bjj worship.

[TravelerKai]

(07-22-2016 01:35 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

He has some great points in the beginning...
Although i'm not so hot on the bjj worship.

Yeah he was right up until he started on the BJJ for self defense as the best self defense. His story of him beating up another Seal that was using some other traditional martial art with BJJ does not mean anything. When I started teaching some Marines that had pulled tours in Iraq some knife fighting, like ways a bad guy could try to stab you, none of them blocked or evaded the stabs correctly. Same goes for the other active special forces guys I taught. Just being a Seal does not mean you are going to be an expert on hand to hand combat.

Lots of them just learn some basics and boxing. They don't need it as much because they are not fighting Israeli soldiers hand to hand everyday. Guns trump it all like the video author says.

Don't get me wrong about BJJ, it's great stuff, but you really do not want to be rolling around on the ground if it is avoidable (usually it is). Hard concrete and broken glass do not feel good underneath you. What if you are tackled and you roll into a bed of fireants with another guy on top of you? Boxing a guy holding a knife makes zero sense unless that is all you know.

He also forgets that Traditional Martial Arts built his BJJ. If he was ever shown Japanese JuJutsu, he might soften his stance on TMA sucks. JJ has all the key moves BJJ does, they just keep it on the feet and focus on self defense instead. It's funny sometimes to see BJJ guys getting tossed around by Judo guys. I did it all the time myself. It's the same stuff, just used with a different focus.

He's just caught up on modern stuff vs traditional stuff like lots of beginners tend to do. It's about tools at the end of the day. Use the proper tool for the job. Like many others he will find out the hard way or never at all. He said it himself, he won't argue about styles or martial arts because his mind is made up and he isn't interested.

Nothing anyone is going to say will help people like that. That's why I won't bother debating that in this thread either. At least for me I've been an instructor for a long time, and spent almost equal parts of my career doing both sides. TMA, sport fighting, pro, ametuer, all of it. I stopped thinking like this guy maybe halfway through it but it required some effort in meeting other schools, asking for demos, crosstraining with others.

I used to be extremely critical of Karate at one point in my life. I thought it was the weakest TMA in the world and was largely a joke. I met a 4th dan that even trained in Japan and did open weight sparring in Asia. He beat up a handful of my MMA fighters. After he got the best of a few, one was smart enough to just grapple him. He tried to do a high elbow to break his double leg takedown and nearly KOd the guy with the first hit, but those are illegal, so he had to stop, and he got taken down and submitted. There are no rules in the street though. He even side kicked a guy far out to the other side of the wall.

I talked with him for hours before inviting him to my class and alot of the stuff he and I were debating he made a point to demonstrate during those spars. Keep in mind, Lyoto Machida was not a famous at the time. I had not seen the power of Karate in MMA at that time. He helped me understand that it is more about the individual fighter and his willingness to train hard before the system comes into account. Training in Japan made a bigger difference than in the US as well.

He also helped me figure out just how much different things are when you take the rules into account, American MMA or even Japanese MMA. (which often involves Karate as well) We actually have one of these guys on the forum believe it or not, I won't say unless he is okay with it.

I got tons of stories/experiences like this. Diaz brothers or Chuck Liddell are not the only ones. Lots of guys in the MMA business came from Traditional systems as well and know the differences and what really matters in the street. We aren't all like this Seal guy or the legion of BJJ fanbois that think BJJ or Boxing > everything else.

Last thing I will offer advice wise, is if you have black belts or advanced knowledge of some martial art traditional or modern, it would be a great idea to take BJJ or Judo for 6 months to a year. Knowing how to fight on the ground could save your life. Of all the Traditional Martial Arts people I have ever sparred or exchanged training or knowledge with, I can only recall only one being able to get me off of them after taking them down with BJJ. The overwhelming majority had no answer for it. To be fair, I did put them into that scenario on purpose for that, most of them counted on being on their feet and ready for an attack. This is something we all know is unrealistic to always have the luxury of in a street fight.

[TravelerKai]

Something I forgot to add: He is right about people saying they do not have much time for martial arts. This is about your life. Martial Arts is life. In Japanese systems the way you tie your color belt onto your gi, which represents that you choose life over death. Always make time to train. If you sit down and check your lifestyle there is plenty of room to dedicate for training because at the end of the day its for the benefit of your life.

[kinjutsu]

(07-20-2016 11:11 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(07-20-2016 02:07 AM)IDrinkYourMilkShake Wrote:  

Great stuff here as usual. If we go back to knife-fighting, I have never been in such situation, personally, but my impression is that if you are alone escaping is the only option. Knifes are quick and any attempt to dissarm the guy from it is to risky, like with the example belowe, starts at 12:09(and they speak english then).

Those guys in the first video are not correct in my opinion. No one ever said, you won't get cut trying to disarm a knife in an attack. No one who has ever learned real knife fighting will ever do what that guy did either. He flailed his arms around like he was not trained at all. It was ridiculous. Flat out absurd really. On further insult the instructor even did the wrist lock at the end wrong!!!

I cannot speak for every self defense trained person, but if I miss the first stab, I am very likely to sprawl or use my whole body and actually get closer and make an adjustment to grab his arm instead. Headbutts, shoulder slams (like that Korean guy), kesagitame, arm locks, Judo leg trips, etc. are all fair game at that point. If the dude is huge and powerful, Judo/BJJ submissions will likely be my last resort. Only downside is that if he is not the only attacker.

If that is the case, then disarming with proper JJ wrist techniques is not just the only option, but using his knife to cut his throat, and do it within 10 seconds becomes priority to be ready for use against his buddies.

Japanese JuJitsu was created for war and for Japanese armies. That is a fact. You were trained to disarm correctly, then kill quickly, was because wasting movements like that got you stabbed or killed on the battlefield. Repetition and practice was crucial in that regard. Sometimes these modern systems guys think too much and do not understand the history well enough to know why the techniques and progressions were created in the first place. Sometimes there is no shortcut on learning and you have to practice it enough until it is second nature.

You had to know how to take away a long katana down to a short tanto if you wanted to survive a battle if you were disarmed or grabbed. Judo was created because JJ students were getting killed and hurt in practice, going full speed, and also because the dictates of Japanese JuJitsu is that you must finish all techniques with a kill.

I absolute second this!
As a 9 yr old my sensei was drilling this into our heads.
Every move needed to be finished with a kill.
The thinking was if only 50% of the techniques worked then you needed to ensure they never got back up.
Nowadays schools/dojos will not teach this.
They shy away from the issue of teaching you how to kill because of liability.


Also to add the Navy seal video...

Back during the ufc boom a few years ago a lot of schools started popping up. They would allow you to participate in a few classes to see if you liked it and wanted to join.
My curiosity got the best of me.
The majority of bjj schools i've visited never focused on multiple attackers. When i asked about this most of the instructors said something along the lines of "we teach for competition, not for fighting in the street." There were a few more that basically kicked me out after i pushed them for answers.
The one thing that stuck with me though...is a large majority of the techniques they taught were extremely sloppy and poor executed.
The "Sumi-gaeshi" throw complicated but very powerful, yet seeing a "blackbelt" in bjj poorly demonstrate to a bunch of clueless people was a severe case of the blind leading the blind.
I was so angry after i left that class i wanted to go back and break both of the lead instructors arms so he would lose all his students.
Its very petty and i know as much.
My main thought is, what happens to those people that looked up to him for a viable self defense system and end up getting hurt or worse because he was seeing sugar water and snake oil?
/rant

I think a lot of people view martial arts as just another thing they do. Some even view like crossfit or going to a spin class.

[kikuyu1]

You sir,know of what you speak! This reminds me of your China thread-the detailed minutiae of real knowledge shines through. What's your opinion on push up conditioning? thread-15957.html

I've done a little muay thai in Nairobi and with[/align] some ground game it would be the best.

[TravelerKai]

(08-03-2016 03:07 AM)kikuyu1 Wrote:  

You sir,know of what you speak! This reminds me of your China thread-the detailed minutiae of real knowledge shines through. What's your opinion on push up conditioning? thread-15957.html

I've done a little muay thai in Nairobi and with[/align] some ground game it would be the best.

Push ups for martial arts training has always been a great way to train.

Do regular ones, then do them on your fists, switch to all your fingers, then take away a finger, repeat, etc.

The hardcore Karate guys usually do this the most. It's very effective for bare-knuckle reasons and wrist strength.

This is the key difference as for why boxers break fingers and get nasty wrist sprains when fighting outside the ring. Their hands and wrists are so tightly wrapped, that without them, they flex under the impact of a punch.

Anyone wanting to close the gap on wrist and bareknuckle aspects of fighting, should do pushups like this for a warmup before practice.

If you want to step it up a bit, get some dumbbells and do the exercises in the video below:

You can also use a hanging weight with a roller.



If you want to be old school and traditional punch rice sacks or sandbags (start very gingerly)



If you a want to train Muay Thai the way I did from guys that trained in Thailand, they made me put a bags of sand inside my Muay Thai hanging bag: (fill the rest of the space with clothes/rags)



The sandbags will eventually settle on the bottom part of the bag. That is the area for low kicks. Condition your legs on that spot(s). It will hurt at first, but after a little while it feels like nothing. The reason to do this is if you do not have access to trees to kick like in Thailand.

[Atticus]

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted. Damn, gives me a whole new level of respect for BJJ:

Bet he got laid like a boss afterwards.

"The Russian vice-consul in Rio de Janeiro dramatically shot dead an armed mugger who had tried to hold him up in his car - just after the Olympic torch relay had passed by on the last day before the Rio 2016 opening ceremony.
Marcos Cesar Feres Braga, a Brazilian lawyer who holds the vice-consul post at the Russian consulate, reportedly grabbed the attacker and pulled him into his BMW X6 after he had smashed the car window and pointed a gun at him, demanding he hand over his watch.
A struggle ensued inside the diplomat's car until he managed to grab the assailant's gun, which he used to shoot him dead at point blank range, according to police.
Mr Braga is trained in jiu-jitsu and was travelling with his wife and daughter at the time, local media outlet Globo reported."

link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-dead.html

[SegaSaturn1994]

(08-05-2016 10:35 PM)Atticus Wrote:  

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted. Damn, gives me a whole new level of respect for BJJ:

Bet he got laid like a boss afterwards.

"The Russian vice-consul in Rio de Janeiro dramatically shot dead an armed mugger who had tried to hold him up in his car - just after the Olympic torch relay had passed by on the last day before the Rio 2016 opening ceremony.
Marcos Cesar Feres Braga, a Brazilian lawyer who holds the vice-consul post at the Russian consulate, reportedly grabbed the attacker and pulled him into his BMW X6 after he had smashed the car window and pointed a gun at him, demanding he hand over his watch.
A struggle ensued inside the diplomat's car until he managed to grab the assailant's gun, which he used to shoot him dead at point blank range, according to police.
Mr Braga is trained in jiu-jitsu and was travelling with his wife and daughter at the time, local media outlet Globo reported."

link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-dead.html

Tight and awkward spaces, the introudction of odd objects etc. are actually more often than not the chink in the armour of martial arts. Size, strength, youth and luck are arguably more important.

For example if a 5'8 judo olympic champion were to be working the counter in a store and grabbed by a 6'5 bodybuilder over the counter, he would not have an answer to that situation and even a boxer of same size would be in a very difficult situation.

Movies and martial arts courses lead us to think that violent confrontations take place on a flat surface with ample space and no hazardous objects or obstacles lying around.

[TravelerKai]

(08-06-2016 09:04 AM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

(08-05-2016 10:35 PM)Atticus Wrote:  

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted. Damn, gives me a whole new level of respect for BJJ:

Bet he got laid like a boss afterwards.

"The Russian vice-consul in Rio de Janeiro dramatically shot dead an armed mugger who had tried to hold him up in his car - just after the Olympic torch relay had passed by on the last day before the Rio 2016 opening ceremony.
Marcos Cesar Feres Braga, a Brazilian lawyer who holds the vice-consul post at the Russian consulate, reportedly grabbed the attacker and pulled him into his BMW X6 after he had smashed the car window and pointed a gun at him, demanding he hand over his watch.
A struggle ensued inside the diplomat's car until he managed to grab the assailant's gun, which he used to shoot him dead at point blank range, according to police.
Mr Braga is trained in jiu-jitsu and was travelling with his wife and daughter at the time, local media outlet Globo reported."

link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-dead.html

Tight and awkward spaces, the introudction of odd objects etc. are actually more often than not the chink in the armour of martial arts. Size, strength, youth and luck are arguably more important.

For example if a 5'8 judo olympic champion were to be working the counter in a store and grabbed by a 6'5 bodybuilder over the counter, he would not have an answer to that situation and even a boxer of same size would be in a very difficult situation.

Movies and martial arts courses lead us to think that violent confrontations take place on a flat surface with ample space and no hazardous objects or obstacles lying around.

Quote:

Tight and awkward spaces, the introudction of odd objects etc. are actually more often than not the chink in the armour of martial arts. Size, strength, youth and luck are arguably more important.

What a load of garbage this is. If your training or style accommodates environmental issues, this is a non-issue. Power is number 1 for sure. Technique is number 2. A person with very low to no technique, is still at a disadvantage if the opponent has far superior technique. Most men in the world are not the size of The Mountain. If a man is around 200 pounds, they are within reason to be able to defend against almost any opponent.

Luck really has no business being in a discussion about fighting. How often do you ever hear that world during a MMA fight? When both guys dazed are throwing haymakers and the last 10 seconds of the match maybe? In self defense situations, if you even have to factor in something un-quantifiable such as luck, you are not prepared well enough to begin with. You simply did not care enough about your own personal well being to prepare yourself for a potential attack on your life. As a result your risk (calculated or not) will be rendered unto you. You will get what you deserve. Garbage in, garbage out.

Quote:

For example if a 5'8 judo olympic champion were to be working the counter in a store and grabbed by a 6'5 bodybuilder over the counter, he would not have an answer to that situation and even a boxer of same size would be in a very difficult situation.

Pure hogwash again. Anyone at that level of Judo would throw or sweep anyone not versed in Judo. How are you going to out grab a world class athlete that makes a living grabbing and throwing others. This is how I know you have no clue what you are talking about. There is no way you ever went a round with one or even a NCAA Div 1 Wrestling champion. It's not about pure or raw strength. It's about position and leverage.

No Judoka at that level would get grabbed behind a counter like that and if they did, they would 100% for certain leap the counter to go in the direction of that guy and sweep or throw him. I once threw an Army Ranger that same exact size because he could not believe that I could teach him anything. I asked him to come at me and he got thrown bouncing his head on the mat in the process because he had not learned how to fall correctly yet. I could have transitioned him in an arm bar and broke his arm, if it were on the street, but this was a practice, his fellow Rangers asked him to attend. He became a good student after that, because he realized not everything was about being bigger than the other guy.

Of course a boxer would be in a difficult position if grabbed by someone very large. They train with similar sized opponents. A Judo practice class (just like BJJ) by comparison is composed of all sizes. Boxers do not train to punch pressure points, vital points, eye gouges, throat strikes, temple strikes, nor small joint manipulation(SMJ). They also do not use harder body parts to even odds like Kickboxers would use an elbow strike or lead the counter for a knee strike. Everyone know boxing is primarily a sport with strict rules and confines, you are not telling anyone something we did not already know.

Quote:

Movies and martial arts courses lead us to think that violent confrontations take place on a flat surface with ample space and no hazardous objects or obstacles lying around.

More incorrect conjecture from someone with no experience in such matters. Japanese Ju Jutsu and two handfuls of different martial arts teach the dangers of the environment and how to deal with it. Movies has no real bearing on self defense on the street. A movie like Jason Borne using Pencak Silat is still a movie at the end of the day and at best is a minor example of what a person can do in a tiny bathroom fighting for his life.

Finally this thread is not a place to discuss whether or not martial arts are real or not. This thread is not about Sports vs Traditional either like I told Rocha repeatedly. Take all that trash back to your thread. This thread is to discuss martial arts options and training. Trying to troll this thread with no real experience in professional fighting or street
fighting, as if you are some authority on the matter, is very disingenuous. The last thing I would do as a person with my experience is listen to some person who has never disarmed a real attacker in self defense (like I have), tell me what I train is fake.

[TravelerKai]

(08-05-2016 10:35 PM)Atticus Wrote:  

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted. Damn, gives me a whole new level of respect for BJJ:

Bet he got laid like a boss afterwards.

"The Russian vice-consul in Rio de Janeiro dramatically shot dead an armed mugger who had tried to hold him up in his car - just after the Olympic torch relay had passed by on the last day before the Rio 2016 opening ceremony.
Marcos Cesar Feres Braga, a Brazilian lawyer who holds the vice-consul post at the Russian consulate, reportedly grabbed the attacker and pulled him into his BMW X6 after he had smashed the car window and pointed a gun at him, demanding he hand over his watch.
A struggle ensued inside the diplomat's car until he managed to grab the assailant's gun, which he used to shoot him dead at point blank range, according to police.
Mr Braga is trained in jiu-jitsu and was travelling with his wife and daughter at the time, local media outlet Globo reported."

link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-dead.html

One interesting aspect of BJJ is that the wrist press is part of the art. It is illegal in most tournaments and in the UFC. The best self defense aspect of BJJ is not allowed in most tournaments at all (Achilles locks and wrist presses). I honestly have no idea how many schools in the US still teach it (or ever did) but most in Brazil still do. My instructor lineage has it and they are direct from a Gracie brother. Royce Gracie's BJJ Self Defense book and videos uses it as well.

Anyone that is old school BJJ would quickly remember it if someone put a gun to their face for sure.

[Rocha]

^^^ Not correct.

Wrist locks are only illegal in IBJJF competition for white belts. Blue and above they are very used. Famously Marcelo Garcia finished Pablo Popovitch with one some years ago, and if you check any of Claudio Calasans Highlights you will see plenty of of these finishes in BJJ tournaments. The good schools and instructors teach and drill them, even white belts.

Also, you are ruining your own thread with your attitude to some other posters here. You seem like those spoiled kids who just because he owns the ball he can make his own rules in the soccer game. Normally he ends up playing alone when the other kids get fed up with him. I am out, you can keep the ball for yourself.

[TravelerKai]

(08-08-2016 10:51 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

^^^ Not correct.

Wrist locks are only illegal in IBJJF competition for white belts. Blue and above they are very used. Famously Marcelo Garcia finished Pablo Popovitch with one some years ago, and if you check any of Claudio Calasans Highlights you will see plenty of of these finishes in BJJ tournaments. The good schools and instructors teach and drill them, even white belts.

Also, you are ruining your own thread with your attitude to some other posters here. You seem like those spoiled kids who just because he owns the ball he can make his own rules in the soccer game. Normally he ends up playing alone when the other kids get fed up with him. I am out, you can keep the ball for yourself.

You are correct about the white belts for IBJJF, maybe NAGA as well, but not every tournament (at least in the USA) falls under those rules. There were plenty of times I personally showed up to local tournaments and the refs flat out told us no wrist locks. Also there are multiple types of wrist presses and not all of them were always legal. Also rules changes from time to time. You seem to be from Portugal. I don't know shit about Portugal. If it bothers you that I know nothing about your side of the world from a commentary perspective, too bad. You could just always post what you guys do there and help us all out. I stated in my guide most of my knowledge is biased towards America because that is where I am from and live.

No the people ruining this thread are the ones constantly off topic and attempting to call others out like yourself, for no good reason at all. Passive aggressive and effeminate snark is not a contribution. I established the rules in the first post for a good reason. No one is preventing you from starting your own thread to discuss things out of scope, like Sega Saturn did. Just don't come in here and troll this one. The martial arts community (forums) are full of immature posters that argue and fight over things not related to martial arts training. I told CascadeCombo that this would happen and even RVF posters are not immune to it. Martial Arts Denialist Trolls, Sports Style Trolls, Traditional Style Trolls, BJJ Trolls, Little Dark Trolls, McDojo Trolls, Krav Maga Trolls, and too many more to count. Roosh would have to learn a whole new language just to referee a legit Martial Arts forum.

If the trolling won't stop, I will stop contributing. It's that simple and I do not mind leaving my posts to stand as is indefinitely. I saw that the forum had a need for information and decided to help out. I know too many in the fight biz and I genuinely feel anxiety posting about it sometimes because I am afraid I could get doxed. I spend alot of time editing any post in this thread for that reason. I love martial arts as much as I love the rest of the forum, but certainly not enough to put up with constant trolling from you and others in one mere thread.

You and the trolls won't post your credentials or stick your own necks out like I have, to explain why I am wrong on my guide or on any of the information I have posted. If you want respect, you need to show some yourself and to the forum.

[Rocha]

It is not my intention to waste more time with this tread.

But your wrong again, you are the one who cant stand different opinion, who is being overly defensive and passive agressive and effeminate on numerous ocasions, clear example (of many) is your sentences about Portugal and if I cared or not about your knowledge, wich in fact I never mentioned any of that talk. I am actually quite surprised that you recognize I am right in IBJJF (or affiliate) tournaments.

I am no martial artist, but I wrote down my experience and pointed some observations about what I felt the data-sheet could be wrong regarding boxing. And instead of engaging on what could be a healthy discussion, you came guns ablazing saying that boxers break wrists and fingers opposite to what you described as some iron fisting conditioning udes who are "lions amongst lambs" wich had whatsoever nothing to do with the aspects I pointed out. You have no grounds for calling me a troll. You do not have to prove nothing to me or anyone. Its clear that you are versed in martial arts. But just relax a little, this is the internet at the end of the day.

[debeguiled]

[polar]

(08-08-2016 11:39 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

If the trolling won't stop, I will stop contributing. It's that simple and I do not mind leaving my posts to stand as is indefinitely. I saw that the forum had a need for information and decided to help out. I know too many in the fight biz and I genuinely feel anxiety posting about it sometimes because I am afraid I could get doxed. I spend alot of time editing any post in this thread for that reason. I love martial arts as much as I love the rest of the forum, but certainly not enough to put up with constant trolling from you and others in one mere thread.

You and the trolls won't post your credentials or stick your own necks out like I have, to explain why I am wrong on my guide or on any of the information I have posted. If you want respect, you need to show some yourself and to the forum.

Kai, this is one of the most exhaustive and fascinating data sheets on this forum. I, for one, am interested in what you have to say.

[debeguiled]

Amen, polar.

Hate to see the intelligent, conscientious, knowledgeable forum members get frustrated and go unappreciated.

Tune 'em out TravelerKai. Guys like you are what this forum is all about.

[Mikan]

I've done Judo for most of my life, although I was much more serious about competition when I was a young man.

Some mornings I swear I can feel every hard throw and sweep I've ever been subject to when getting out of bed. My left shoulder in particular was dislocated badly in competition over 20 years ago and hurts terribly when I wake up and its raining. I occasionally will have a jolt of nerve pain through an elbow or knee.

I remember the older 40+ black belts when I was young. You could hear their joints crack when they stood up off the mats. Sometimes they would have to sit out for a while if it was raining. And the crocked fingers from all the breaks. When I wasn't watching I became one of them.

If you are young please don't underestimate Kai's warnings about long term injury. Its raining right now, I think I'll limp into the kitchen and make some tea.

Kai - Do you follow olympic Judo? The Japan/Korea rivalry has been great (in the lighter weights anyway). I think the rules changes since 2012 have made the matches more exciting to watch. I'm not sure I would have enjoyed competing under them though.

[Fortis]

(08-08-2016 12:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

I am no martial artist, but I wrote down my experience and pointed some observations about what I felt the data-sheet could be wrong regarding boxing.

[TravelerKai]

(08-09-2016 05:26 PM)Mikan Wrote:  

I've done Judo for most of my life, although I was much more serious about competition when I was a young man.

Some mornings I swear I can feel every hard throw and sweep I've ever been subject to when getting out of bed. My left shoulder in particular was dislocated badly in competition over 20 years ago and hurts terribly when I wake up and its raining. I occasionally will have a jolt of nerve pain through an elbow or knee.

I remember the older 40+ black belts when I was young. You could hear their joints crack when they stood up off the mats. Sometimes they would have to sit out for a while if it was raining. And the crocked fingers from all the breaks. When I wasn't watching I became one of them.

If you are young please don't underestimate Kai's warnings about long term injury. Its raining right now, I think I'll limp into the kitchen and make some tea.

Kai - Do you follow olympic Judo? The Japan/Korea rivalry has been great (in the lighter weights anyway). I think the rules changes since 2012 have made the matches more exciting to watch. I'm not sure I would have enjoyed competing under them though.

Oh yeah brother! I'm not 40 yet, but that is me all day long. When a thunderstorm is coming I can get up and go look out the window and I am never wrong about the sky being dark.

Acupuncture has saved my life. I'm nowhere near as bad as I was the past 5-7 years ago, but I can still feel a storm coming. The muscle spasms were the worst. Once I got past that, the rest is okay.

All the BJJ guys are well on their way too.

I would not take it all back. I am a much better man in too many categories having done all that. No pain, is still no gain.

I used to follow it very heavily. I haven't watched any events this year though. I posted about the last one somewhere on the forum although I don't remember the thread title. The Japanese lady whose name escapes me does beautiful Judo. It's pure bliss watching her. It's better than textbook. If she was the same size as Rhonda Rousey, we would not know who Rhonda is.

The rule changes I do not like. I prefer real Judo. Old school Judo. Yet, I do understand why they did that. Maybe as retribution, they can add BJJ to next Olympics. There is talk about adding MMA to the next one. Both would be good adds that would raise ratings alot. If Brazil does not get a medal, I will quietly laugh in a corner somewhere. They better put wrestling back on, otherwise I will personally boycott it again.

[Fortis]

I don't think it'd be possible to add MMA to the next Olympics. Your average Westerner is way too squeamish about that sort of thing. Also, much like Wrestling, it can be surprisingly technical which makes it harder for casuals to grasp.