[eatthishomie]

These are valid feelings.

Reading all the stories of women at their worst and dealing with some of these women on OKC was starting to make me into a MGTOW for a while to be honest.

You still need to have sex though, look at Elliot Rogers to see what a life of no sex does to a motherfucker.

Pump and dump.

[262]

OP is likely a MGTOW

(05-29-2016 09:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

decamping for a "more just society"

Yeah, OP should stay at Cuntfest Club instead of decamping for Pussy Paradise Pub.

[RatInTheWoods]

Dude has a point. For a young man to get to get unplugged, it must be a hell of a shock.

I had my kids and a few decades of resilience before divorce rape unplugged me.

If I had the knowledge before the tenacity to handle it, I'd be looking to throw a rope over the rafter as well.

[Sciurophobia]

I appreciate all your replies and I'll try to respond to as many of you as I can.

As it sits, I wouldn't call what's happening to me "red pill rage". As it sits I'm suffering from something between utter confusion and contempt for the opposite sex. As I said, I can't understand why, after revealing "the true nature of women" any sane man would devote so much time to being a professional clown for the sake of getting laid.

@WestIndianArchie Game doesn't seem to be a way to take back my own life. It strikes me as faking something that's just not in my nature for the supposed benefit of getting my dick wet.

@Artiste There's a lot of info here for me to digest, and I appreciate you taking the time to help. Though a lot of it isn't relevant as I don't exactly go to clubs or interact with that many women (I cite my earlier post about my feelings of disdain). But thanks.

@Deepdiver But therein lies the problem. I don't want to treat people as subhuman. I don't want to manipulate and use people. I'm not like that. Not only, but the idea that women are so easily manipulated and toyed with only makes me want to avoid them more. I can't see any good qualities in women that aren't already present in men. There's also the fact that a lot of these "psychological tricks to 100% get you laid" are tricks based on pseudoscience and "dudebro" logic.

@samsamsam See, the rub seems to be that you DO have to chase women to be a "masculine" men. That's what I want. Even if a MGTOW follows the neo-masculine trend to the T but doesn't get his dick wet, the majority of RVF brands him as a loser. Also, I tend to vary between bouts of optimism and extreme pessimism and hopeless cynicism, but my name comes from a guy named "Lutraphobia" (fear of otters) that I played Warcraft 3 with back in the day, it's something of a tribute.

@storm So the only solution is to lie to myself? That doesn't exactly sound appealing. I'm also inclined to disagree, nothing is inherently pointless because humans tend to justify and assign meaning to anything they do. Just I'm using my logic to avoid something that seems blatantly stupid and wasteful.

@dies irae Women are absolutely dumb. Name any inventions, innovations, companies started or wars won by women. And if they're not stupid then they're lazy too. If I wanted to treat someone like a child, I'd have kids. And I absolutely hate kids. How can someone be a caretaker and selfish at the same time? And finally, women have shacked up with their husband's murderers since we formed tribes and started taking the cunts from one another. You speak in riddles. HOW can any sane man continue to be attracted to women under these circumstances? That's what I struggle to understand.

Again, thanks for all your responses. I'm going over them to try and come up with an understanding... And frankly I'm utterly failing, though I feel slightly better. Only thing is every time I think of applying any sort of "game" tactics I feel disgusted with myself, like I'm a performing seal jumping for the entertainment of some cunt that couldn't care less.

[Dalaran1991]

How old are you OP? Do you have a lot of experience with dealing with people? (I dont mean that in a condescending way)

I'm among the younger of the RVF here and I felt the same way you did before. I think you are good-natured and genuinely do not want harm to others, but that is naive. The nature of existence is conflict. The same people who would gladly walk a blind man across the street would be the ones to eviscerate you if you say something redpill. Your best friend that could wake up 2am to come to your help might suddenly turn against you if you two are competing for the same girl.

That is, unfortunately the reality: it is nasty. You don't have to manipulate people per se but you need to know how to deal with them in order to not be taken advantages of. Sadly, a lot of the time that means taking advantages of others before they do. Nothing about the redpill is lying, is just pure simple facts. While we all appreciate that you don't want to do this and that (which you consider bad) you need to be aware it is necessary if you wan to move ahead. You dont want to be good Tim at the office always nice and eager to help everyone but gets passed up for promotion every time.

That is exactly the same way with women. You should not hate women, absolutely nobody here does. You can not succeed with women without genuinely liking them unless you are a clinical psychopath.

Women are wonderful creatures with a strong potential to be bad. They can be sweet, feminine, childlike, caring, romantic and all of the things you want them to be, but only if you know how to handle them. If you don't, they are among the nastiest being. When I think back I still can't believe how women treat me differently now compared to 2 years ago, even though I'm still the same good hearted person who would wipe the tear off a little girl's face in the subway, but who has learned to treat women like trash when I need to.

Game and redpill give you the tool to be the man who can bring out the wonderful nature of women, protect your own and yourself against the danger of this world.

Before you need to know how to fight to survive. Now it's mental alacrity and a healthy perspective at a FUBAR world. The game has changed.

Of course, most people dont want to accept that, hence the MGTOW movement. If you want to succumb to that, that's your choice, but you will no longer be welcome here.

[Sciurophobia]

I'm twenty-two. And I stopped dealing with most people a couple years ago because, to put it simply, I'm not a people person.

It really is a shame, then, that I have to fuck people over, because I'd really rather not.

Also this is another thing I took issue with. Not only do I need to constantly game a woman to get her attention, but I have to keep doing it until the day one of us dies or else she'll leave me for the next cock that comes around. Seems like a stupid amount of effort spend on mind games for very little reward.

[Dalaran1991]

(05-30-2016 05:25 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

I'm twenty-two. And I stopped dealing with most people a couple years ago because, to put it simply, I'm not a people person.

This is MGTOW: giving up, and it will probably get you a ban here.

What if you were born in the middle age with a lame leg and you can't work the field because you "are not a labor person"?

I'm not a people person either, but I've learned to be extrovert when I need to, the rewards are there.

There is tremendous reward to feeling the love and dedication of a woman to you, of bonding deeply with another one, but you will never experience that if you dont want to spend the effort.

You are young, my age when I first practice the redpill. I hope things can be salvaged for you.

As much as I hate the word, men are the true victims of modern society.

[XPQ22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloplastic_adaptation

The difference between MGTOW and here is that it seems MGTOW, rather like feminists, have internalized a rage that the world is not how they want it, or doesn't give them what they want because they want it. They seek to change the world, rather than change themselves. This is a losing battle.

I think to be successful you must love women for what they are, not what you wish them to be. And I also think that philosophy applies pretty well not just to romantic relationships, but many other things in life.

Regardless of what you may feel now, I'd suggest you take a stab at trying to have some relationships. You might be surprised how rapidly your attitude changes after you have a few successes under your belt. I think you'll find that those feelings of disgust when you're around women will drop away, and you'll enjoy being around women, even women who you're not fucking, more than you ever did.

It's not knowing a thing or two about their "true nature" that's causing the rage. It's because you haven't fully let go of the "old ways" and you're still putting them on a pedestal which doesn't exist, i.e. you're suffering from a cognitive dissonance between theory and practice. The only way to break out of this mindset is to have a couple successful relationships where you don't do it.

(05-29-2016 06:01 AM)Latan Wrote:  

PS : meeting a New York chick in a few hours, hope to get my US flag, hehe.

Food analogy for the US flag: It ain't that fancy French stuff, more like Five Guys hamburgers...you pretty much know what you're gonna get going in, and it's consistently satisfying.

Just don't let tasty fast food make you fat and lazy...

[AnonymousBosch]

(05-29-2016 05:50 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

So there's still the problem of "women are stupid, shallow, and essentially children". That's not exactly knowledge that's helping me being attracted to something.

Congratulations! You now have no delusional expectations of behaviour from women and no unrealistic sense of entitlement about what you believe you 'deserve' from them.

Work on acceptance of what they are; tolerance of them not living up to male standards; and good-humoured patience with their over-emotional behaviour. To move forward, learn to be a good leader and genuine lover of women, because, they will sense if you hold hatred and contempt for them in your heart.

Sure, they'll still piss you off, but you'll mostly Make Up Bang your way out of 90% of confrontations and both get over it - until the next time, because the tempest is always churning overhead, threatening to break. It's just the nature of women, but you just learn resilience as a man to be able to walk through the storm without needing an umbrella, knowing the rain doesn't really bother you that much.

Being utterly-blunt, a large majority of the bullshit can be negated by keeping them sexually-satisfied. Sex is an artform, easily studied, practised and refined. Fuck them well, fuck them hard, fuck them until they beg you to stop from the pleasure. Learn to make them reliably-orgasm. Women risk spending too much time in their own heads - an internal world of heightened emotion - and it makes them miserable. Our sexual skills allow us to give women the blissful gift of being swept out of their bodies by intense sensation, which offers them a sense of freedom and release from the prison of their own making, which seems to calms the storm, at least for a little while.

You'll be fine, brother. You might even find yourself dancing in the rain.

[The Beast1]

OP, I know that feel you're going through.

I got to a point where I was banging girls and I started to get disgusted with them. During a lay, I just got the image of a girl getting dicked by a bunch of other guys and it would immediately kill any attraction I had for them.

I got lucky with my girl. She was an awkward book nerd, introvert, and a virgin. I know this because of how badly the first time we hooked up was. Hips were all over the place you know the drill. Guys that have banged virgins will know what I am talking about.

She had a relationship with a guy in high school that didn't amount to much besides touching.

She came from a good family (still married) and a religious background. Her ideal life is to be allowed to work from home, homeschool kids, cook dinner, and write. She only has a facebook which she uses very rarely. She has contempt for instagram and other forms of social media. Finally, she likes working out and is doing her best to get rid of some weight.

My advice is this, not all women are like that contrary to what most people on this forum may think. Avoid bars and clubs as places to find girls (unless you are looking for a quick lay) . Day game works, but I prefer shared activities to meet people.

Join a church and read the bible (New Testament only). Understand what it means in relation to your life experiences. Then go and find a church that doesn't allow gays or women to be pastors (this is key). It doesn't matter what denomination it is. A church with these beliefs tends to attract women that are good marriageable material and who are also young. Yes you run the risk of running into reformed whores, so use your best judgement.

Work on yourself and focus on your needs in the short term. Hit the gym, stack cash, and keep an open mind. You'll get your self feeling better.

[LINUX]

Sciurophobia

90% of the stuff in manosphere is shit. Stop reading it. It's obviously given you a negative outlook.

Since the brain is a reflexive organ, most of things are written while under a certain state of mind -- loneliness, frustration, anger, jelousy, etc. and while our brain changes day to day and experience to experience, words are always online to stay even as we change.

You growing as a man, is going to be determined by your ability to sort though the truth and bullshit. And you do that by real-life experiences, not reading stuff on the internet.

Here is an example: I've got a few friends in Indonesia at this moment; every weekend they have a table service at a famous night club surrounded by 10 women who are their close friends. These guys are complete ballers, and not a weekend goes by that they aren't fucking one of the hot girls at their table (that other guys only dream of), or a random friend of a friend of a girl sitting at the table , while also making everyone in the club jealous because all the women in the club want to be a part of that group .

Do you think these guys are sitting around reading that article that was posted on "why men shouldn't be friends with women?"

Fuck no they're not.

Learn to sort through the bullshit and start enjoying life because it's too short not to. No man should be a slave to his own emotions.

[Travesty]

(05-30-2016 08:12 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Women risk spending too much time in their own heads - an internal world of heightened emotion - and it makes them miserable.

You'll be fine, brother. You might even find yourself dancing in the rain.

Very insightful thing here. I learned something today thank you.

I never thought of the view of women being hyper-emotional and neurotic beings where if a man is not there to take them out of their own chaotic minds they suffer. Biggest example of this is daddy issues.

Game is really helping them escape themselves, which in a way makes you look at women with a lot more sympathy because they are thrown into a life where they really lack control and are at the mercy of their minds and their environment. It places responsibility on ourselves and gets rid of a lot of potential excuses.

I think knowing this and letting it sink in will make me a better person.

[AboveAverageJoe]

You should never become so jaded that you don't enjoy seducing women until you have done it for at least twenty plus years. After that, it is acceptable if you retire from the game as opposed to it retiring you. As a young man you should be using this to your advantage, not bemoaning yourself. This attitude you have can become ant-seductive. Never show scorn to women, just indifferent disapproval. Once you can let go of your anger at the rules of the game you can begin reaping the rewards of it. Sexual dynamics aren't fair, genetics aren't fair, life isn't fair. Get out and approach relentlessly and keep a positive point of view. Being a cynical, contrarian, iconoclast rarely attracts the babes unless you are in the top 10% in genes and social acumen.

[yeppels]

(05-30-2016 02:06 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Sciurophobia

90% of the stuff in manosphere is shit. Stop reading it. It's obviously given you a negative outlook.

Since the brain is a reflexive organ, most of things are written while under a certain state of mind -- loneliness, frustration, anger, jelousy, etc. and while our brain changes day to day and experience to experience, words are always online to stay even as we change.

You growing as a man, is going to be determined by your ability to sort though the truth and bullshit. And you do that by real-life experiences, not reading stuff on the internet.

This is the best advice in here. Stop reading theory and go experience the practice. You won't understand how to play tennis by reading books about it. You won't learn to drive a car without actually getting behind the wheel.

You will never learn to understand and appreciate women by reading about how they work online.

You will only be able to do so by going out and meeting them, and keeping with you some of these things you've learned. You will fail and will fail hard. When I learned about the red pill, the first few times I took it to the extreme in real life, and it backfired completely. Whoops, turns out reading advice on the internet and cranking it up to 100% is a terrible idea.

Take the good things from the red pill, and remember them well. Take the garbage and fucking burn it. Only through experience can you decipher the good from the garbage.

[RatInTheWoods]

OP - have a read of this

https://therationalmale.com/2014/01/14/t...-of-books/

this covers the realization grief, interesting read.

[Marmite]

Women are what they are, and female nature is what it is. There is no rhyme or reason to it, it simply is.

Now you have roughly three options as far as I can see:

1 - Accept reality for what it is, deal with it, and get on with your life.
2 - MGTOW
3 - Homosexuality

If you choose the first option, you can go out and experiment with your social skills to find out if reality actually reflects what you have read. If it does, then you can use that to your advantage to either have lots of sex with lots of different girls, or to select the best quality woman that you can in order to have a family, or any combination there in. If it doesn't, then you can do the same.

The latter two options will most likely lead to you self selecting to weed your genetics out of the gene pool.

I find sex without some form of connection to be quite a hollow experience very similar to masturbation, except running game to meet a woman for quick sex takes significantly more effort for only a slightly better orgasm. If however I take a little time to build some form of connection with the girl, it can significantly improve my pleasure response to her, hence making for a better orgasm.

I'm not a people person, I'm a person person. Learning and running game has allowed me to develop deeper connections with the few people that I allow to become close friends in my life, and to select better quality friends, while everyone else is kept at what I consider to be a comfortable distance. Learning how to elicit people's reference frames is a very valuable skill in all forms of social interactions.

Whilst I have felt what is commonly called approach anxiety, I have never felt bad after putting myself out there and being "rejected". I would say beating myself up for not having the balls to act is a significantly worse feeling.

If you don't want to learn game for the sake of getting pussy, then learn it for a purely social engineering perspective, which will help you with your family and social life, as well as your professional life. And you never know, your opinions of women may just change along the way.

Edit: Are you really scared of squirrels?

[262]

As the sexual market gets more competitive, especially in the West, I'd bet we're going to see more newbs like OP.

As someone pointed out in another thread, it was only about five years ago that the guys below were considered jacked:



These days, the above is considered newb gains. They look like they haven't even done a cut on said gains.

[Graft]

I know exactly how you feel, but it's not the 'sphere that caused it. I was drawn to the 'sphere because I was already experiencing these things first hand. The 'sphere just confirmed it and put some science behind it.

I consider myself a MGTOW, but not a "voluntary celibate." I use a lot of dating apps, if I'm in a social situation I will try to game. Otherwise, I consider it a giant waste of time to comb through hundreds of people in day/night game for the sole purpose of trying to meet women that aren't preselected.

I've been unplugged for a while, and it's really not my disgust for women that turns me away from day/night game. It's just that I already get some action through low effort dating apps and there are so many more things I'd rather do with my time:

-lifting
-boxing
-reading: politics, cars, ROK/RVF, classic books
-watching a good movie
-going to museums and other exploring
-will start a masters program soon which should take a good amount of time

My advice to you: find a passion. Maybe it's lifting. Maybe it's programming/developing a startup. It doesn't seem to be gaming and sex, so find something that will fill that void.

[XXL]

(05-29-2016 05:02 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

I hear "Women are dumb, women are not loyal, women are like children, women are selfish, women have no sense of justice or honor or comradeship, they'll also sell you and your children up the river for their own benefit and probably falsely accuse you of rape and abuse. So now that you've read all that, we're going to teach you techniques you can use to get even closer to these things."

This is something I simply can't wrap my head around. After reading nearly everything penned on this and dozens of other websites, I've simply become somewhere between numb and slightly disgusted just by being around members of the opposite sex.

You read too fucking much. Start writing your own story.

I personally have different view on women because I had different experiences. I went and challenged everything I had heard before and through my own experiences and formed my own opinions. I don't worry about who says what.

You had an appetite for life and you're losing it because of all this negative shit your read but when you step up and go see things for yourself and play game on your terms you'll see different reality, YOUR reality, where you can't get enough of it.

Good luck

[Samseau]

(05-30-2016 04:44 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

@dies irae Women are absolutely dumb. Name any inventions, innovations, companies started or wars won by women. And if they're not stupid then they're lazy too. If I wanted to treat someone like a child, I'd have kids. And I absolutely hate kids. How can someone be a caretaker and selfish at the same time? And finally, women have shacked up with their husband's murderers since we formed tribes and started taking the cunts from one another. You speak in riddles. HOW can any sane man continue to be attracted to women under these circumstances? That's what I struggle to understand.

So you hate both women and kids? Is anyone good enough for you in this world? I can't say I know too many guys who hate both women and children, if they hate one they almost always love the other, you sound like you've got serious mental issues that go far beyond the manosphere.

I'm sorry, but I don't think women have anything to do with your issues, it sounds like you've got something else eating you from the inside.

[fighter]

N-A-C

[Sciurophobia]

(06-05-2016 07:43 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 04:44 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

@dies irae Women are absolutely dumb. Name any inventions, innovations, companies started or wars won by women. And if they're not stupid then they're lazy too. If I wanted to treat someone like a child, I'd have kids. And I absolutely hate kids. How can someone be a caretaker and selfish at the same time? And finally, women have shacked up with their husband's murderers since we formed tribes and started taking the cunts from one another. You speak in riddles. HOW can any sane man continue to be attracted to women under these circumstances? That's what I struggle to understand.

So you hate both women and kids? Is anyone good enough for you in this world? I can't say I know too many guys who hate both women and children, if they hate one they almost always love the other, you sound like you've got serious mental issues that go far beyond the manosphere.

I'm sorry, but I don't think women have anything to do with your issues, it sounds like you've got something else eating you from the inside.

If you say so, Doctor.

I don't like children because I find them annoying and awkward to be around. I'm just plain not interested in being around them for extended periods.

[Artiste]

(05-29-2016 05:02 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

...After reading nearly everything penned on this and dozens of other websites, I've simply become somewhere between numb and slightly disgusted just by being around members of the opposite sex. How do I drop this feeling so I can actually start meeting women without feeling disgusted, like I'm somehow degrading myself by trying so hard to get approval? Or am I thinking too much into this and just need to somehow let it go?

Now that you have received a range of suggestions for consideration, what tangible steps of action have you taken and will you take, in order to get you closer to your stated goals of (a) developing relationships with more women, and -- relating to this -- (b) experiencing more positive emotions and thoughts, and © enhancing your sense of personal integrity?

[Comte De St. Germain]

(05-30-2016 04:44 AM)Sciurophobia Wrote:  

It strikes me as faking something that's just not in my nature for the supposed benefit of getting my dick wet.

Game is in every man's nature. It's leveraging the best you possible and developing your talents to seduce the kind of women you want.

And to answer your original question of why bother? Short, simple, and sweet: Because it's fucking fun.

Having a beautiful girl on your arm on a night out, that stereotypical valley girl who was only a few hours ago giving you shit calling you daddy while stroking your beard, using all that practice of your humor/wit to entertain groups of people while making new friends, and valuable experiences/downtrodden nights with your boy who struck out with you.

It's part of the ultimate high which is life. Learn to enjoy it because all I see is a lack of experience in your original post.

I'm also in complete agreement with Samseau. Something is up and it's more than likely you than all women.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(06-02-2016 03:22 AM)262 Wrote:  

As the sexual market gets more competitive, especially in the West, I'd bet we're going to see more newbs like OP.

As someone pointed out in another thread, it was only about five years ago that the guys below were considered jacked:



These days, the above is considered newb gains. They look like they haven't even done a cut on said gains.

Mate if you look like that and dress nice even in the West you'll still be killing it. I don't know what you're on about. The majority of guys are skinny shits and it doesn't take much to outclass them. Shit I even outclass the average guy.

And the guys who more jacked than that have not developed their sense of banter generally. Not saying they aren't cool people, but they think grinding it out with 5s or 6s with ease by asking "Want some fuck?" is preferable to development of their wit or worldview generally(there's always exceptions to the rule).

I'm glad RVF pushes both physical and mental improvement in regards to these things.