[Barron]

(02-29-2016 06:33 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

^^^

I have no idea who collected those statistics, or if they are in any way accurate or reliable.

Even if they are, which I doubt, there is a huge variation between countries and people, so statistics like that are essentially useless.

For an individual man, game + strong frame + being high value, is a much better way to increase your odds of having a successful marriage then seeking out some prude boring woman who is scared of dick.

Nice dismissal of empirical information.
In your previous post you complained about women then went on to list all these qualities that you're looking for in the opposite sex. You know who does that? Women.

The dismissal of facts, the complaining, the list of what you want in a female... all this is pretty damming evidence of your character. And you have just admitted to needing a unicorn for happiness.

Work on your inner game.

[ChickenLover9T9]

VVVV I get what you're saying, all that glitters is definitely not gold but even if it is smoke and mirrors there's something about having a nice, sweet, submissive, feminine "good girl" (or two, or three...) in your life that just makes it so much... warmer... I've never had these "prudes" reject sex, though. They all seem to love it, possibly more in a way because they are less experienced and sexual pleasure is new to them. They might be hesitant with more adventurous things but they are all not lacking in libido. It might say something about the man and the relationship as a whole if she cannot get turned on (=by you, not necessarily by other men).

Then have adventure with "sluts" on the side. A lot of "sluts" are very charming, attractive and have great personalities. Some just ooze sex appeal. I try to stay away from the crazies but there are many "sluts" who are interesting, adventurous and extremely sexual, who don't appear to be that different, who don't have tattoos etc.

[Travesty]

VVVV you are forgetting the Catholic school girl syndrome.

Religious girls can be some of the best. Lots of Catholic girls completely slut out in America because "sex is bad" in a rebellious way.

I also believe however there are a good number of low N count girls that also think of "sex is bad and naughty" but hold off due to social constraints. So when they finally get to have sex watch out, which can be a great thing if you lock her down.

Bad news is that many of the girls that are untouched virgins past the age of 20 or so even in this special category aren't usually the most attractive hence they have less suitors.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(02-29-2016 08:37 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Nice dismissal of empirical information.
In your previous post you complained about women then went on to list all these qualities that you're looking for in the opposite sex. You know who does that? Women.

The dismissal of facts, the complaining, the list of what you want in a female... all this is pretty damming evidence of your character. And you have just admitted to needing a unicorn for happiness.

Work on your inner game.

Ok, I'll bite. Those numbers seem questionable to me.

How could they possibly accurately know how many sexual partners a woman has had before marriage? Unless they polygraphed people, I question the accuracy. I'm actually genuinely curious about just how inaccurate their self reported numbers are. The only way to find out would be to polygraph a statistically significant portion of the subjects, and then compare their actual numbers to the numbers they claimed to have.

Anyhow, maybe I'm wrong, let's assume the study is at least somewhat accurate.

I still don't see what its value is. There is a huge difference in divorce rates between various demographics (based on age, race, location, education level, socioeconomic level, nationality, etc).

So, to average together information from disparate demographics, even if it was accurate, will give you an end result that in no way reflects what your particular chances of divorce or long term marriage are if you go wife up some ignorant country girl who has only ever seen one dick.

I think it is a reach to call that data empirical, and foolish to extrapolate it as meaningful.

Also, I never said I needed a unicorn to feel happy, but if making things up helps your "argument," go for it.

edit:

The Teachman study used data from American women from 1995.

More recent studies have questioned many of his methods, assumptions, and conclusions, especially when it comes to cohabiting prior to marriage:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000053/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3487709/


You know what study I would like to see?

Take a group of 500 beta men with no game, and a group of 500 alphas with strong game.

See how long their marriages last. I'm guessing that level of game is a much more relevant variable than how prude your wife is.

[WeekendCasanova]

Why do people even bother seriously answering threads like this? It's a bunch of nonsensical complaints.

[johnbozzz]

I come from a family filled with Ukrainian women. They can be very nationalist and won't hesitate to start speaking in their native tongue during family gatherings if they wish to gossip or make a side joke about a given situation.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(02-29-2016 09:56 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  

VVVV I get what you're saying, all that glitters is definitely not gold but even if it is smoke and mirrors there's something about having a nice, sweet, submissive, feminine "good girl" (or two, or three...) in your life that just makes it so much... warmer... I've never had these "prudes" reject sex, though. They all seem to love it, possibly more in a way because they are less experienced and sexual pleasure is new to them. They might be hesitant with more adventurous things but they are all not lacking in libido. It might say something about the man and the relationship as a whole if she cannot get turned on (=by you, not necessarily by other men).

Then have adventure with "sluts" on the side. A lot of "sluts" are very charming, attractive and have great personalities. Some just ooze sex appeal. I try to stay away from the crazies but there are many "sluts" who are interesting, adventurous and extremely sexual, who don't appear to be that different, who don't have tattoos etc.

I've had my fair share of virgins/super flags as well as low notch count girls, and yes, I have had great sex we both enjoyed.

Sporadic encounters with these girls are different then an LTR with a girl who is at least 25 and has actively chosen to shun notches

If a girl hits 25 or older, and has 2 notches or less, I think it is at least as likely due to low libido as due to morality.

In my particular situation, she will have sex whenever I want, she is submissive to me. But if I don't initiate things, she would be ok with once or twice a week.

Shit gets old quick. I like to feel that spark of energy where a girl can't control herself.

Especially compared to a high notch count Brazilian girl I dated for a couple weeks over the summer. She wanted sex a minimum of twice a day, would aggressively initiate, and was a squirter and multiple cummer.

Anyway, I don't know how much my personal experience and views can be extrapolated to the likelihood of a busted dude finding a chaste Ukrainian hottie who will bear his children and be loyal for decades and live happily ever after.

I don't really have anything more to add to this thread.

[PeruLover12]

(02-28-2016 10:54 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Some observations on the "busted dudes" thing in Ukraine.

First of all, the "slovenly dressed factory worker" is a provider, he does a manly hard job, puts the food in the table, does all the fixing/reparations at home, helps with countless other stuff, possibly is building a second home with only his bare hands and tools...in sum he is determined in providing the best possible life he can to his family. He is not playing around like many of us, thinking about notches, game, 8s and 9s, quantity vs quality...etc. He got to have something about him, even in Ukraine, that make that woman who is above him lookwise to respect him and feel good with him. These woman know their value, she will not stay with a drunkard gopnik, at least for long.

Agreed.

People should remember that FSU women are much more rational than western women in choosing partners. Looks are not valued as much in a partner because a woman dating you is mostly doing so after making a rational decision as opposed to 'he gives me tingles' or 'I don't know how we ended up in bed together, one thing just led to another'.

It was VVV who mentioned in an earlier post about the importance of knowing the girl's language well in terms of a successful relationship and understanding her in a broader sense. I agree and as you delve deeper into the Russian language and learn the idioms and speak to women without the distorting prism of English you get to understand the mentality better. For example I can think of three idioms off the top of my head about a man's looks, the most famous one probably being 'A man should be only slightly better looking than a monkey'. You hear this one a lot in social settings with women when discussing relationships. ( My favourite idiom btw points to the determined nature of Slavic women: 'A wife is not a wall. She will move'. I.e If I want him I'll get him regardless of if he is married ).

I digress. The busted dudes test is an indicator in certain places but in a hyper-rational dating environment it is pretty meaningless, as long as of course you are not outside the realms of social acceptability. You don't see many hunchbacks strolling arm in arm with models.

Finally just some anecdotal evidence from my own life: If you want a nice sweet 8 to date or marry then Belarus is a far more fertile hunting ground than Ukraine. I don't know why that is exactly but I would be surprised if people who had spent time in both countries did not agree with me.

[Traktor]

(02-29-2016 01:04 PM)The Ligurian Wrote:  

(02-28-2016 10:54 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Some observations on the "busted dudes" thing in Ukraine.

First of all, the "slovenly dressed factory worker" is a provider, he does a manly hard job, puts the food in the table, does all the fixing/reparations at home, helps with countless other stuff, possibly is building a second home with only his bare hands and tools...in sum he is determined in providing the best possible life he can to his family. He is not playing around like many of us, thinking about notches, game, 8s and 9s, quantity vs quality...etc. He got to have something about him, even in Ukraine, that make that woman who is above him lookwise to respect him and feel good with him. These woman know their value, she will not stay with a drunkard gopnik, at least for long.

Agreed.

People should remember that FSU women are much more rational than western women in choosing partners. Looks are not valued as much in a partner because a woman dating you is mostly doing so after making a rational decision as opposed to 'he gives me tingles' or 'I don't know how we ended up in bed together, one thing just led to another'.

It was VVV who mentioned in an earlier post about the importance of knowing the girl's language well in terms of a successful relationship and understanding her in a broader sense. I agree and as you delve deeper into the Russian language and learn the idioms and speak to women without the distorting prism of English you get to understand the mentality better. For example I can think of three idioms off the top of my head about a man's looks, the most famous one probably being 'A man should be only slightly better looking than a monkey'. You hear this one a lot in social settings with women when discussing relationships. ( My favourite idiom btw points to the determined nature of Slavic women: 'A wife is not a wall. She will move'. I.e If I want him I'll get him regardless of if he is married ).

I digress. The busted dudes test is an indicator in certain places but in a hyper-rational dating environment it is pretty meaningless, as long as of course you are not outside the realms of social acceptability. You don't see many hunchbacks strolling arm in arm with models.

Finally just some anecdotal evidence from my own life: If you want a nice sweet 8 to date or marry then Belarus is a far more fertile hunting ground than Ukraine. I don't know why that is exactly but I would be surprised if people who had spent time in both countries did not agree with me.

I second this. Having been to both Ukraine and Russia, I can honestly say that Belarus is top of the pops when it comes to the femininity and wholesomeness in relation to the women folk. This is from someone who spent time living in the Balkans (Bulgaria and Serbia). It's Europe's best kept secret.

Just ask Newsweek

http://europe.newsweek.com/belarus-capit...0271?rm=eu

Quote:

The Belarusian capital of Minsk is Europe’s worst city to live in, according to analytics firm Mercer who annually compare quality of life indexes across the world.

The lowest ranking cities in Europe are Ukraine’s Kiev, in 176th place globally, Albania’s Tirana in 179th place globally and Minsk in 190.

[kiwi12]

(02-29-2016 12:46 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

In my particular situation, she will have sex whenever I want, she is submissive to me. But if I don't initiate things, she would be ok with once or twice a week.

Shit gets old quick. I like to feel that spark of energy where a girl can't control herself.

Especially compared to a high notch count Brazilian girl I dated for a couple weeks over the summer. She wanted sex a minimum of twice a day, would aggressively initiate, and was a squirter and multiple cummer.

I feel you man, I have same situation.

[BallsDeep]

(02-29-2016 01:22 PM)Traktor Wrote:  

I second this. Having been to both Ukraine and Russia, I can honestly say that Belarus is top of the pops when it comes to the femininity and wholesomeness in relation to the women folk. This is from someone who spent time living in the Balkans (Bulgaria and Serbia). It's Europe's best kept secret.

You found girls in Belarus to be hotter than Serbia?

[samsamsam]

Not to totally derail but was the visa process for,Belarus pretty straight forward?

[nomadd]

FSU countries are full of white knights and materialistic women, especially Ukraine, Russia is much better, but still too many white knights.
If you wish to stay long term in Ukraine(Kiev and Western Ukraine) you better learn Ukrainian.

[samsamsam]

(03-01-2016 03:22 AM)nomadd Wrote:  

FSU countries are full of white knights and materialistic women, especially Ukraine, Russia is much better, but still too many white knights.
If you wish to stay long term in Ukraine(Kiev and Western Ukraine) you better learn Ukrainian.

Will Russian do or you think it has to be Ukrainian? May I ask (out of curiosity) where your experience with this comes from? Thanks!

[DVY]

OP is getting such un-deserved flack. Sometimes this place turns into an echo chamber in which the echoes are louder than the words.

Lets start off by saying I 100% understand your point of view. You aren't the first foreigner to see a pretty face, a girl who is demure in public, does whatever you want sexually and dresses somewhat sexy/modestly/model hot and fall deeply into it.

I have done it too. And failed to see warnings signs or just chalked it off to different cultural behaviors. It really takes time to acclimate to a different cultural and to a different girl. I'd caution anybody on jumping into a relationship w/out knowing the person closely for at least 2 years. I didn't get married tho, but I understand the sentiment considering Silicon Valley is just chalkful of nerdy dudes w/negative game who slop all over hot girls. (I've lived in SF before so I can comment on that too).

The thing w/Slavic countries is that it is a patriachial society in which men dominate the work-force and are expected to make the bread. If you can't her family will often encourage her to move on to the next guy (fkd up but its happened before... many times) The worry is she'll have kids then not be able to feed them or some other survivalist trope like that. Its 100s of years of czarist or communist times when girls only moved up due to beauty. You don't stamp that out. Poor ugly girls had nothing to sell. Its also a place where its acceptable to cheat and steal foreigners and outsiders. Property rights are bascially non-existent and law enforcement is basically nil except to shake down people for bribes (this has improved in the last 10 years).

Im half-russian. Fluent. Been around this scene for many years, lived there, and am intimately familiar w/all the gossip. Married women w/kids trying to hook richer married men. Fkd up culture. Then you have the old school who gets married really young (18-23) and stayed married forever. As mentioned before, age range for marriage is basically <25. 27 is like a 35 yr old here in USA. Keep that in mind...

I've heard personal heartbreaking stories of corruption and graft. One story that turned me off Russian girls is how a daughter stole millions of dollars from her mom's account (retirement) after the mom gave her power of attorney and went on vacation. She came back to have her Moscow apartment transferred to her daughters name. Her $ wiped. Basically went from a multi-millionaire to zero in less than 1 year. Heartbreaking....

That isn't to say that you won't experience this in other countries, but Russians have that nonchalant manner about cheating (getting $$$ over anything. Cheat and steal. Look how the oligarchs are portrayed and how all the girls want that lifestyle. Fkn grimy and don't care what dirty competitive sh-t they will do to attain it). Getting one up on foreigners is "socially acceptable".

Stoic ice queen ---> over-the top blow-up followed by wild sex then demands for $500 fur boots or some stupid sh-t like that (True story). Hyper materialistic.

Def not for the faint of heart. Russian girls play the game better than some players and its mostly natural/cultural. They also have limited sexual timespans. Most blow-up at the hips around 30-32, so you usually get 18-29 as prime years. Thats why its such a fast push towards marriage: moms will tell their daughters to get married before they get ugly/fat. (sounds like your girls obsession w/the photo shoots. She sensed the conflict coming and basically was preparing for departure).

This is all anecdotal but I am a fluent Russian speaker, lived there (Moscow/St Petersburg) and lived in the USA (russian areas). I've seen and hung out w/my Russian friends, w Russian girls, blah blah blah. This aint my first rodeo w/the Slavs. I usually stay away because of my personal prejudice about their mentality but maybe I am biased from the start

[nomadd]

(03-01-2016 04:58 AM)DVY Wrote:  

OP is getting such un-deserved flack. Sometimes this place turns into an echo chamber in which the echoes are louder than the words.

Lets start off by saying I 100% understand your point of view. You aren't the first foreigner to see a pretty face, a girl who is demure in public, does whatever you want sexually and dresses somewhat sexy/modestly/model hot and fall deeply into it.

I have done it too. And failed to see warnings signs or just chalked it off to different cultural behaviors. It really takes time to acclimate to a different cultural and to a different girl. I'd caution anybody on jumping into a relationship w/out knowing the person closely for at least 2 years. I didn't get married tho, but I understand the sentiment considering Silicon Valley is just chalkful of nerdy dudes w/negative game who slop all over hot girls. (I've lived in SF before so I can comment on that too).

The thing w/Slavic countries is that it is a patriachial society in which men dominate the work-force and are expected to make the bread. If you can't her family will often encourage her to move on to the next guy (fkd up but its happened before... many times) The worry is she'll have kids then not be able to feed them or some other survivalist trope like that. Its 100s of years of czarist or communist times when girls only moved up due to beauty. You don't stamp that out. Poor ugly girls had nothing to sell. Its also a place where its acceptable to cheat and steal foreigners and outsiders. Property rights are bascially non-existent and law enforcement is basically nil except to shake down people for bribes (this has improved in the last 10 years).

Im half-russian. Fluent. Been around this scene for many years, lived there, and am intimately familiar w/all the gossip. Married women w/kids trying to hook richer married men. Fkd up culture. Then you have the old school who gets married really young (18-23) and stayed married forever. As mentioned before, age range for marriage is basically <25. 27 is like a 35 yr old here in USA. Keep that in mind...

I've heard personal heartbreaking stories of corruption and graft. One story that turned me off Russian girls is how a daughter stole millions of dollars from her mom's account (retirement) after the mom gave her power of attorney and went on vacation. She came back to have her Moscow apartment transferred to her daughters name. Her $ wiped. Basically went from a multi-millionaire to zero in less than 1 year. Heartbreaking....

That isn't to say that you won't experience this in other countries, but Russians have that nonchalant manner about cheating (getting $$$ over anything. Cheat and steal. Look how the oligarchs are portrayed and how all the girls want that lifestyle. Fkn grimy and don't care what dirty competitive sh-t they will do to attain it). Getting one up on foreigners is "socially acceptable".

Stoic ice queen ---> over-the top blow-up followed by wild sex then demands for $500 fur boots or some stupid sh-t like that (True story). Hyper materialistic.

Def not for the faint of heart. Russian girls play the game better than some players and its mostly natural/cultural. They also have limited sexual timespans. Most blow-up at the hips around 30-32, so you usually get 18-29 as prime years. Thats why its such a fast push towards marriage: moms will tell their daughters to get married before they get ugly/fat. (sounds like your girls obsession w/the photo shoots. She sensed the conflict coming and basically was preparing for departure).

This is all anecdotal but I am a fluent Russian speaker, lived there (Moscow/St Petersburg) and lived in the USA (russian areas). I've seen and hung out w/my Russian friends, w Russian girls, blah blah blah. This aint my first rodeo w/the Slavs. I usually stay away because of my personal prejudice about their mentality but maybe I am biased from the start

Totally agree.
Half Russian too, but not from the USA. Same experience with Russian/Ukrainian chicks, but correct me if I'm wrong, the "Russian" chicks in the USA that you talked about are mostly from Ukraine, aren't they? it's a different mentality.

(03-01-2016 04:00 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 03:22 AM)nomadd Wrote:  

FSU countries are full of white knights and materialistic women, especially Ukraine, Russia is much better, but still too many white knights.
If you wish to stay long term in Ukraine(Kiev and Western Ukraine) you better learn Ukrainian.

Will Russian do or you think it has to be Ukrainian? May I ask (out of curiosity) where your experience with this comes from? Thanks!

Depends which city. Odessa for example has a Russian speaking majority. There are places in Ukraine that don't like Russians and prefer to speak Ukrainian.

Some people that I know are from Ukraine.
It's even better to speak English to the local chicks, because all they dream of is to leave their homeland. Add this to the latest events.

[Rocha]

[/quote]
Will Russian do or you think it has to be Ukrainian? May I ask (out of curiosity) where your experience with this comes from? Thanks!
[/quote]

Depends which city. Odessa for example has a Russian speaking majority. There are places in Ukraine that don't like Russians and prefer to speak Ukrainian.

Some people that I know are from Ukraine.
It's even better to speak English to the local chicks, because all they dream of is to leave their homeland. Add this to the latest events.
[/quote]

No, I have to disagree here. It is not better to speak in english with them.
What do you prefer? A girl who hangs with you because of the dream of leaving Ukraine or a girl who really likes your personality? Seems like sometimes we are running in circles in these discussions. If you pull simply the foreigner card you will have a situation like OP described, if you want a different person you have to speak something (not mandatory, of course there are exceptions to every rule), unless you met her already in the west. I have wrote before, the girls who command english language are the most messed up, pros, semi-pros, anastasiadate and other relationship sites...

And also no, ukranian language can bring some advantage but only in the western part, but does not justify the return on investment. Even there Russian is still the lingua-franca. Learn Russian, it is spoken by 250 million or more.

[Rocha]

Deleted.

[samsamsam]

(03-01-2016 07:29 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

And also no, ukranian language can bring some advantage but only in the western part, but does not justify the return on investment. Even there Russian is still the lingua-franca. Learn Russian, it is spoken by 250 million or more.

That is where I have been making my language investment but nomadd posted in a way that I wanted more clarity. I have noticed that if you are not Ukrainian no one gives you grief for speaking Russian in Ukraine. Better than not communicating at all. And if you know Russian, there is some overlap.

[Rocha]

(03-01-2016 11:55 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 07:29 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

And also no, ukranian language can bring some advantage but only in the western part, but does not justify the return on investment. Even there Russian is still the lingua-franca. Learn Russian, it is spoken by 250 million or more.

That is where I have been making my language investment but nomadd posted in a way that I wanted more clarity. I have noticed that if you are not Ukrainian no one gives you grief for speaking Russian in Ukraine. Better than not communicating at all. And if you know Russian, there is some overlap.

I would go even further to say that except for Lvov (Banderastan) nowhere in Ukraine someone gives a damn if you speak russian, whether you are Ukranian or not. It could have happened some issues during the Maidan days nonsense, but I think today most have realized the stupidity of this anti-russian language campaign, and that politics and language are different issues.

[AvidArtisan]

While I agree that it's a good idea to atleast learn the foreign language of the country you want to find a wife in I think it's silly to say it's an absolute 100% to be fluent because anyone talking to you will basically know youre a foreigner regardless of how well you know the language due to your accent. I have a lot of friends in Japan/Korea and they know the languages well but will always speak English first or not follow all the local customs specifically because the people know they aren't Japanese/Korean and will never see them as such. Same thing as a Black or Middle eastern guy going to Ukraine.

[BangBoy123]

(03-01-2016 12:33 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 11:55 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 07:29 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

And also no, ukranian language can bring some advantage but only in the western part, but does not justify the return on investment. Even there Russian is still the lingua-franca. Learn Russian, it is spoken by 250 million or more.

That is where I have been making my language investment but nomadd posted in a way that I wanted more clarity. I have noticed that if you are not Ukrainian no one gives you grief for speaking Russian in Ukraine. Better than not communicating at all. And if you know Russian, there is some overlap.

I would go even further to say that except for Lvov (Banderastan) nowhere in Ukraine someone gives a damn if you speak russian, whether you are Ukranian or not. It could have happened some issues during the Maidan days nonsense, but I think today most have realized the stupidity of this anti-russian language campaign, and that politics and language are different issues.

You are better off learning Russian in Ukraine, even in Western Ukraine they don't give too much of a damn to be honest, if in doubt speak English.

In Kiev most people that are born in Kiev(and S, E Ukraine) speak Russian, the Ukrainian language pollution comes from those born in the West of the country. Even Poroshenko is barely fluent in Ukrainian.

You may consider learning Ukrainian if you are planning on living in Banderastan, and you have swallowed the whole "Putin is a bad man" spiel.

[CharlesHustle]

(03-01-2016 06:20 PM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 12:33 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 11:55 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 07:29 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

And also no, ukranian language can bring some advantage but only in the western part, but does not justify the return on investment. Even there Russian is still the lingua-franca. Learn Russian, it is spoken by 250 million or more.

That is where I have been making my language investment but nomadd posted in a way that I wanted more clarity. I have noticed that if you are not Ukrainian no one gives you grief for speaking Russian in Ukraine. Better than not communicating at all. And if you know Russian, there is some overlap.

I would go even further to say that except for Lvov (Banderastan) nowhere in Ukraine someone gives a damn if you speak russian, whether you are Ukranian or not. It could have happened some issues during the Maidan days nonsense, but I think today most have realized the stupidity of this anti-russian language campaign, and that politics and language are different issues.

You are better off learning Russian in Ukraine, even in Western Ukraine they don't give too much of a damn to be honest, if in doubt speak English.

In Kiev most people that are born in Kiev(and S, E Ukraine) speak Russian, the Ukrainian language pollution comes from those born in the West of the country. Even Poroshenko is barely fluent in Ukrainian.

You may consider learning Ukrainian if you are planning on living in Banderastan, and you have swallowed the whole "Putin is a bad man" spiel.

I respectfully believe this is bad advice. I agree with you on the fact that most are better off learning Russian. But, when in doubt speak Russian over your native language. The reason for this is because Ukrainian women obviously know you don't speak the language. Woman like mysterious men, therefore when you walk up smoothly and say something in Russian she is pleasantly surprised. Most times she will be flattered that you took the time to learn her native language. The one exception to this rule is game in Lviv, but even then she will quickly forgive you for speaking Russian.

And the Ukrainian language is not pollution. Most are raised speaking Russian and they learn Ukrainian in school. Therefore most have poor Ukrainian grammar, but can speak it at a fluent level if they are from the West.

[CharlesHustle]

(03-01-2016 04:58 AM)DVY Wrote:  

OP is getting such un-deserved flack. Sometimes this place turns into an echo chamber in which the echoes are louder than the words.

Lets start off by saying I 100% understand your point of view. You aren't the first foreigner to see a pretty face, a girl who is demure in public, does whatever you want sexually and dresses somewhat sexy/modestly/model hot and fall deeply into it.

I have done it too. And failed to see warnings signs or just chalked it off to different cultural behaviors. It really takes time to acclimate to a different cultural and to a different girl. I'd caution anybody on jumping into a relationship w/out knowing the person closely for at least 2 years. I didn't get married tho, but I understand the sentiment considering Silicon Valley is just chalkful of nerdy dudes w/negative game who slop all over hot girls. (I've lived in SF before so I can comment on that too).

The thing w/Slavic countries is that it is a patriachial society in which men dominate the work-force and are expected to make the bread. If you can't her family will often encourage her to move on to the next guy (fkd up but its happened before... many times) The worry is she'll have kids then not be able to feed them or some other survivalist trope like that. Its 100s of years of czarist or communist times when girls only moved up due to beauty. You don't stamp that out. Poor ugly girls had nothing to sell. Its also a place where its acceptable to cheat and steal foreigners and outsiders. Property rights are bascially non-existent and law enforcement is basically nil except to shake down people for bribes (this has improved in the last 10 years).

Im half-russian. Fluent. Been around this scene for many years, lived there, and am intimately familiar w/all the gossip. Married women w/kids trying to hook richer married men. Fkd up culture. Then you have the old school who gets married really young (18-23) and stayed married forever. As mentioned before, age range for marriage is basically <25. 27 is like a 35 yr old here in USA. Keep that in mind...

I've heard personal heartbreaking stories of corruption and graft. One story that turned me off Russian girls is how a daughter stole millions of dollars from her mom's account (retirement) after the mom gave her power of attorney and went on vacation. She came back to have her Moscow apartment transferred to her daughters name. Her $ wiped. Basically went from a multi-millionaire to zero in less than 1 year. Heartbreaking....

That isn't to say that you won't experience this in other countries, but Russians have that nonchalant manner about cheating (getting $$$ over anything. Cheat and steal. Look how the oligarchs are portrayed and how all the girls want that lifestyle. Fkn grimy and don't care what dirty competitive sh-t they will do to attain it). Getting one up on foreigners is "socially acceptable".

Stoic ice queen ---> over-the top blow-up followed by wild sex then demands for $500 fur boots or some stupid sh-t like that (True story). Hyper materialistic.

Def not for the faint of heart. Russian girls play the game better than some players and its mostly natural/cultural. They also have limited sexual timespans. Most blow-up at the hips around 30-32, so you usually get 18-29 as prime years. Thats why its such a fast push towards marriage: moms will tell their daughters to get married before they get ugly/fat. (sounds like your girls obsession w/the photo shoots. She sensed the conflict coming and basically was preparing for departure).

This is all anecdotal but I am a fluent Russian speaker, lived there (Moscow/St Petersburg) and lived in the USA (russian areas). I've seen and hung out w/my Russian friends, w Russian girls, blah blah blah. This aint my first rodeo w/the Slavs. I usually stay away because of my personal prejudice about their mentality but maybe I am biased from the start

Excellent advice and you tell it like it is without sugar coating it or being a white knight for Ukrainian woman.

On the topic of fidelity, about a week ago I hit up SF with a few buddies. We ended bar hopping all night which eventually led us to an after hours night club. As soon as I arrived I noticed this beautiful woman on the dance floor. As I was moving in I overheard her speaking Russian to a friend. I instantly opened with a smooth opener in Russian and she turned around amazed and wanted to know where I was from. Next thing I knew she was passionately grinding her ass against my hips. A few minutes later she turned around and said do you want to get out of here? She had a room at the Marriot so I called a Lyft and we were on our way. She was great in bed and kept insisting that I do whatever I wanted to her. The next morning she asked for my number so I thought what the hell and gave it to her. Later on I checked her Snapchat username which led me to her Instagram account.... It turned out she was a Russian expat who is married and has a 2 year old daughter! In every photo she would say how much she loved them and couldn't live without them... blah blah blah. Feel terrible for the husband. He was attractive, a family man, and had a bank roll. If it can happen to him it can happen to anyone.

[BangBoy123]

(03-01-2016 11:54 PM)CharlesHustle Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 06:20 PM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 12:33 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 11:55 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-01-2016 07:29 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

And also no, ukranian language can bring some advantage but only in the western part, but does not justify the return on investment. Even there Russian is still the lingua-franca. Learn Russian, it is spoken by 250 million or more.

That is where I have been making my language investment but nomadd posted in a way that I wanted more clarity. I have noticed that if you are not Ukrainian no one gives you grief for speaking Russian in Ukraine. Better than not communicating at all. And if you know Russian, there is some overlap.

I would go even further to say that except for Lvov (Banderastan) nowhere in Ukraine someone gives a damn if you speak russian, whether you are Ukranian or not. It could have happened some issues during the Maidan days nonsense, but I think today most have realized the stupidity of this anti-russian language campaign, and that politics and language are different issues.

You are better off learning Russian in Ukraine, even in Western Ukraine they don't give too much of a damn to be honest, if in doubt speak English.

In Kiev most people that are born in Kiev(and S, E Ukraine) speak Russian, the Ukrainian language pollution comes from those born in the West of the country. Even Poroshenko is barely fluent in Ukrainian.

You may consider learning Ukrainian if you are planning on living in Banderastan, and you have swallowed the whole "Putin is a bad man" spiel.

I respectfully believe this is bad advice. I agree with you on the fact that most are better off learning Russian. But, when in doubt speak Russian over your native language. The reason for this is because Ukrainian women obviously know you don't speak the language. Woman like mysterious men, therefore when you walk up smoothly and say something in Russian she is pleasantly surprised. Most times she will be flattered that you took the time to learn her native language. The one exception to this rule is game in Lviv, but even then she will quickly forgive you for speaking Russian.

And the Ukrainian language is not pollution. Most are raised speaking Russian and they learn Ukrainian in school. Therefore most have poor Ukrainian grammar, but can speak it at a fluent level if they are from the West.

I would say go for English when in doubt, let's not forget how wet some girls get when they are approached by a foreigner in English, or maybe switch to some Russian when you have determined her English abilities

Yes most girls in Ukraine speak Ukrainian, when I say pollution it's me in particular as I am not generally interested in Western Ukrainian women, their language, or their politics.