[whateverfuckit]

(02-25-2016 07:00 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

But I didn't have any game at 23-25. What you're really describing is princess syndrome. And that is not only a Ukrainian issue. That's common all over the globe.

In the most basic terms, her sense of reality is greater than yours, and you lack the skill set to break it.

There's still time.

WIA

Yup. And I don't fault OP for that. What I take issue with is him posting in Travel and trying to tell the forum how all Ukrainian women are, based on his experience with one single girl, when he puts her on a pedestal and doesn't have his shit together.

If this were posted in the Newbie section and posed as a question, not as "this is how it is" I wouldn't have said a word.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-25-2016 07:20 AM)whateverfuckit Wrote:  

Yup. And I don't fault OP for that. What I take issue with is him posting in Travel and trying to tell the forum how all Ukrainian women are, based on his experience with one single girl, when he puts her on a pedestal and doesn't have his shit together.

If this were posted in the Newbie section and posed as a question, not as "this is how it is" I wouldn't have said a word.

Special Ed, many people, who have actual experience, agreed with his synopsis.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-25-2016 07:00 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

How'd you forget the God awful accent? How can something be more unsexy than Australian? It's as bad as Dutch or German.


WIA

I thought the accent was cute.

[Cobra]

Thank god this whateverfuckit dude got banned. He also trolled a recent "chick is pregnant, should I keep the kid" thread. I had called him out over there but a bunch of members gave him reps.

The problem with this kind of troll and primary indicator is the obnoxious attitude. OP may be misguided but not a troll. Yet whateverfuckit had to flex his keyboard muscles and wanted to feel powerful and make him feel small. What stuck out about him was that his game level in his profile was at "veteran." Yet he's going to call a member out for calling himself Alpha. Good thing is that even if he creates a new forum handles, he'll be easy to smoke out.

[Rush87]

Her Social media presence and egocentric attitude are your first red flags. There are girls like this all across the globe. Of course the west has them in far higher numbers, but it doesn't mean you ignore it if they come from an Eastern European nation.

To have the relationship get as far as it did without identifying and addressing the red flags means that you probably still have a lot to learn [We all do at various points in life]. A bit of time on this site should help you avoid making the same mistakes in the future.

BTW: I notice you've taken a lot of heat in this thread, but I have spotted similar characteristics in many Ukrainian girls [And Polish for that matter]. My best friend growing up was Ukrainian and I spent a lot of time over there with him. From my experience many of the issues you mentioned can be addressed [And they are environmental] but at the end of the day, sometimes you meet someone who is just too far gone. In those cases, you might need to pull judgment on whether the girl is worth the uphill battle.

[WestIndianArchie]

(02-25-2016 07:36 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 07:00 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

How'd you forget the God awful accent? How can something be more unsexy than Australian? It's as bad as Dutch or German.


WIA

I thought the accent was cute.

A girl speaking in her native tongue is cute, but zee bad English and how they extend certain vowels...nails on a chalkboard.

[erikak]

You're 25, in good shape, good looking, with a good job, more alpha than beta -- yet you go to Ukraine to find a girl? As with more than a few posters here, something just isn't adding up.

In the chance that you're accurate in your claims, then the world is in far worse shape than I'd ever imagined and men are more or less doomed.

[AvidArtisan]

OP this is a slightly unrelated question since I agree with all the other posters that you should break ties with this woman.

But... I know the 90day k1 visa takes months to get approved and so you got it approved and she was here for 90 days and then you two didn't get married and she left. So wouldn't it be difficult for you to get it again?

I've heard and know of people who got the visa and married in the appropriate time but I've never known someone who didn't get married so I wonder how difficult it is to reapply and get approved since the whole point of the visa was you were committing to marry in those original 90days.

[rishboy77]

Since I pretty much stick to the Ukrainians... long term it could work if you live there or a different country.
I would never bring one to the West.

Check out my twitter for more on UA.

[LovePotionNo.9]

(02-25-2016 10:09 AM)erikak Wrote:  

You're 25, in good shape, good looking, with a good job, more alpha than beta -- yet you go to Ukraine to find a girl? As with more than a few posters here, something just isn't adding up.

In the chance that you're accurate in your claims, then the world is in far worse shape than I'd ever imagined and men are more or less doomed.

I don't believe you realize the fun involved. Not to mention many, including myself, have a fetaish for slavic women

[Dantes]

I don't think the OP is trolling. He has a lot to learn and is generalizing based on one woman, but there are some points for discussion here. OP got beat up a little bit here, but hopefully he will learn to identify red flags sooner and will develop better judgement. This comes with experience.

Let's keep our criticism constructive to help this young player. I appreciate a different perspective on Ukrainian women even if it's a generalization.

Some points for consideration:

OP, consider yourself lucky that you did not marry her. You dodged a bullet.

I suggest you reach out to some experienced players on this Forum and learn from them as much as possible. I think you have overestimated your Game and certainly yours experience with women. Learning from more experienced men, particularly in Ukraine will pay dividends.

Ukraine is a tricky place. Develop a better feel of the country and the culture before consideration into another relationship with a woman from there.

Men who state their alphaness tend to overestimate it. Demonstrate it by behavior, not by words. Respect will come naturally. Otherwise, it is contrived.

A woman's worth in Ukraine is predicated on her beauty. Be grateful for her investment in her beauty, but also look for the other intrinsic qualities. I met Ukrainian women who were intelligent, motivated and hard-working with goals for the future. They do exist.

It wasn't until my early 30s that I developed a preference for younger women. I don't find it unusual that a 25 year old man would date a 27 year old woman. At 25, I tended to date women within a few years of my age. How things have changed!

[Moto]

I don't necessarily condone your actions, as others have broken down.

I do think you described the Ukrainian woman to a T. Almost everything you wrote could be said about the half Russian half Ukrainian girl I dated a few years ago. Especially becoming ice-cold at the flip of a switch, needing lots of gifts and romantic gestures, self-esteem based solely on beauty...)

[oilbreh]

Don't see why OP is a troll. Had a few vacation flings with some smoke show EE women and they acted similarly. Fortunately I wasn't the guy paying for their vacation so I didnt have to deal with all the bs. Some had a husband and possibly a kid back home. You wouldn't hear about it unless you asked them about it. Their social media has no mention of the kid or husband either. Photo sessions with a photographer during vacation to upload to social media. Really seems like they are shopping for an upgrade at all times. Shit testing to the max. Have everything paid for in life by men.

Not all are like this. There are some happy care free ones, there are cold and jaded ones that tell you like it is. Op just described one type.

[MrRoundtree]

I believe the guy 100%, I had the same experience with one Ukrainian girl in Paris who moved there to be an actress (at 30 years old), claimed to be a former model (believable)..the girl was just crazy and had that crazy eye look..but the sex was amazing.

[Brodiaga]

If I, as an Eastern European, dated one American girl and then posted a datasheet about American girls in general, what would you say about me?

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-25-2016 09:19 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

If I, as an Eastern European, dated one American girl and then posted a datasheet about American girls in general, what would you say about me?

I would discuss the content of your post. Explain why I agree or disagree. That is how discussions work, no?

Besides, he already stated:

Quote:

I do realize I generalized Ukrainian woman which is wrong. Live and learn, right?

[CharlesHustle]

Guys, I want to answer some of your points about the red flags.

When I first met her she was a complete scholar. She lived at home with her parents and her cat. She never goes out clubbing or rarely goes to cafes due to financial issues. Her joy in life was reading, taking walks, and playing with her cat. She was in a 6 year relationship that didn't work out because the guy was not serious. She moved on at 26, which is understandable, because her clock is ticking.

When I met her she posted occasionally on Social Media, but was by no means addicted. When she started dance lessons she started to hang around new girls. These girls were all beautiful Ukrainian women 7/10 or above. What I learned over time is they all hate each other. It's like a battle to the death to see who can get most attention on Social Media. It's a psychological addiction that only gets worse over time. She was not this way when I asked her to marry me.

And I will also add that her new friends were terrible influences on her. The first thing they would ask her is what did he buy you? Why didn't he buy you iPhone yet? Did he buy you flowers today? Etc. I can go on and on. The point is I had a good damn woman who was ruined.

[CharlesHustle]

(02-25-2016 11:30 AM)AvidArtisan Wrote:  

OP this is a slightly unrelated question since I agree with all the other posters that you should break ties with this woman.

But... I know the 90day k1 visa takes months to get approved and so you got it approved and she was here for 90 days and then you two didn't get married and she left. So wouldn't it be difficult for you to get it again?

I've heard and know of people who got the visa and married in the appropriate time but I've never known someone who didn't get married so I wonder how difficult it is to reapply and get approved since the whole point of the visa was you were committing to marry in those original 90days.

Currently takes 5-6 months to get approved. Sometimes more if you use the Texas service center instead of California's. It is possible to reapply if we truly wanted it. We are only human and we needed more time to consider our future. We wouldn't be the first or the last to be in this situation.

[CharlesHustle]

(02-25-2016 10:09 AM)erikak Wrote:  

You're 25, in good shape, good looking, with a good job, more alpha than beta -- yet you go to Ukraine to find a girl? As with more than a few posters here, something just isn't adding up.

In the chance that you're accurate in your claims, then the world is in far worse shape than I'd ever imagined and men are more or less doomed.

Not everything is cut and dry. I live in Silicon Valley, which is the man capitol of the world lol. There is no chance in hell you can swoop an 9-10 here unless your salary is over 150k. Even the 6-7's are extremely entitled here. The woman are hit on so frequently by dudes with a boat load of cash that they have built a complex. Not hating on my local woman, but the odds are against me. I have even seen hippos in the clubs get hit on by decent looking men just because supply and demand.

[ChickenLover9T9]

1. If you are more "alpha than beta" then why did you resort to an old woman from the internet?

2. You are generalizing all women from one country based on your experience with one woman, who is not only old but sounds mentally ill if your descriptions are true.

3. Unless you're in a country with huge numbers of girls online (SEA) and you're looking for quantity more than quality, you should stay off the internet. Meeting girls during the day doesn't guarantee a better woman in every single case, than you would find online, but overall it wipes the floor with online in terms of quality. There is a higher concentration of headcases online. Yes it's more pronounced in the west but still applies across the board.

4. Go for 18-21, there's no reason to consider old women where there are tons of hotter younger more feminine women out there.

5. For future relationships you set the boundaries. She screams for an iphone? She can shut up or GTFO. Water really does take the shape of the container it fills, and in many cases you cannot stop a previously "nice" girl from becoming intolerable. However, with healthy dominance, firm but fair punishments, clear setting of boundaries, you can very often command her utmost respect and that respect will be sufficient to resist the poison that exists in her environment. Either you shape her or the environment shapes her. Women are very much like children in this respect. You have set no firm boundaries, you do not have her respect as a human being. You have failed with this woman. The good news is there are plenty other younger hotter women out there so learn from this hot mess and move on.

P.S. It's a shame whateverfuckit got banned. I thought his posts were useful and insightful not just in this thread but in others as well. In a time when communities of men such as this one are getting attacked from many angles, I'm not sure it's right to throw out possibly high quality members.

[CharlesHustle]

(02-26-2016 12:11 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  

1. If you are more "alpha than beta" then why did you resort to an old woman from the internet?

2. You are generalizing all women from one country based on your experience with one woman, who is not only old but sounds mentally ill if your descriptions are true.

3. Unless you're in a country with huge numbers of girls online (SEA) and you're looking for quantity more than quality, you should stay off the internet. Meeting girls during the day doesn't guarantee a better woman in every single case, than you would find online, but overall it wipes the floor with online in terms of quality. There is a higher concentration of headcases online. Yes it's more pronounced in the west but still applies across the board.

4. Go for 18-21, there's no reason to consider old women where there are tons of hotter younger more feminine women out there.

5. For future relationships you set the boundaries. She screams for an iphone? She can shut up or GTFO. Water really does take the shape of the container it fills, and in many cases you cannot stop a previously "nice" girl from becoming intolerable. However, with healthy dominance, firm but fair punishments, clear setting of boundaries, you can very often command her utmost respect and that respect will be sufficient to resist the poison that exists in her environment. Either you shape her or the environment shapes her. Women are very much like children in this respect. You have set no firm boundaries, you do not have her respect as a human being. You have failed with this woman. The good news is there are plenty other younger hotter women out there so learn from this hot mess and move on.

P.S. It's a shame whateverfuckit got banned. I thought his posts were useful and insightful not just in this thread but in others as well. In a time when communities of men such as this one are getting attacked from many angles, I'm not sure it's right to throw out possibly high quality members.

I go for what I want. End of story.

And many of the points you brought up have already been discussed in this thread. If a Ukrainian girl is not on a dating website, she is on VK which is equivalent to a dating site because thirsty foreigners bombard her inbox daily. She chooses who she wants to speak to based on money, status, looks. And to continue on the subject of online dating, 50% of woman in my area have online dating profiles. That number is probably much higher. Online dating is starting to become the norm. Can't ever rule out opportunities.

You haven't even seen my girl. How could you possibly comment that there are hotter women out there? And I understand setting boundaries. I have always had solid relationship game. Like I mentioned before her friends corrupted her. She thought I was greedy because I was firm and didn't give in to her demands.

[jayko]

i got a sense that he gonna come back with whateverbendit, just joking.

but seriously, 27 still behave like a drama queen, that is enough indication of red flag. cut loss and hit on the next hot young 18-21 before they get into drama queen mode.

[samsamsam]

(02-25-2016 09:58 PM)CharlesHustle Wrote:  

Guys, I want to answer some of your points about the red flags.

When I first met her she was a complete scholar. She lived at home with her parents and her cat. She never goes out clubbing or rarely goes to cafes due to financial issues. Her joy in life was reading, taking walks, and playing with her cat. She was in a 6 year relationship that didn't work out because the guy was not serious. She moved on at 26, which is understandable, because her clock is ticking.

When I met her she posted occasionally on Social Media, but was by no means addicted. When she started dance lessons she started to hang around new girls. These girls were all beautiful Ukrainian women 7/10 or above. What I learned over time is they all hate each other. It's like a battle to the death to see who can get most attention on Social Media. It's a psychological addiction that only gets worse over time. She was not this way when I asked her to marry me.

And I will also add that her new friends were terrible influences on her. The first thing they would ask her is what did he buy you? Why didn't he buy you iPhone yet? Did he buy you flowers today? Etc. I can go on and on. The point is I had a good damn woman who was ruined.

There was astute observation on the pay woman to shit on them thread - that IG thread about being flown to the Middle East to get abused. I am blanking at the moment.

Anyway, the observation that was shared was these cum dumpsters always post pics about "look how healthy I am eating" but in the corner is a 10K purse or something. They are in a terrible arms race with each other and hating each other is normal. I realize that a guy can dislike some dude but still have respect for him and in the the right situation work with the guy. Women, when they dislike other women just go nuts. And I don't think most women understand respect, they do understand resource providers, flings, but not wow this person is accomplished and I respect what he has done.

I think when you are in a new group of people there is a natural urge to fit in, especially for women.

[Barron]

(02-26-2016 12:11 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  

4. Go for 18-21, there's no reason to consider old women where there are tons of hotter younger more feminine women out there.

5. For future relationships you set the boundaries. She screams for an iphone? She can shut up or GTFO. Water really does take the shape of the container it fills, and in many cases you cannot stop a previously "nice" girl from becoming intolerable. However, with healthy dominance, firm but fair punishments, clear setting of boundaries, you can very often command her utmost respect and that respect will be sufficient to resist the poison that exists in her environment. Either you shape her or the environment shapes her. Women are very much like children in this respect. You have set no firm boundaries, you do not have her respect as a human being. You have failed with this woman. The good news is there are plenty other younger hotter women out there so learn from this hot mess and move on.

Best advice in this thread.

If you want a Ukranian beauty you'd better catch her when she's young. After 22-23 their character is solidified and whatever horrible personality traits they've acquired from endless streams of beta saps fawning over her social media photos won't be easily erased.

Catch them before they're 21, while their minds are impressionable. Set boundaries early and show them how easily they can lose you if they step out of line.
Sounds like your girl never experienced a guy telling her 'No'. She's never been given another option on how to think or had to work for a man's affection.

Lastly, and I've learned this the hard way, never allow a woman's beauty to fool you into forgetting that you're more valuable than her. If you know this and believe this at all times, she will too.

[Akula]

No offense to you OP but there are just so many red flags here that you should have seen and avoided. You really need to read up on the forum more and study the things you did wrong.

For starters:

- you met on Badoo (!!)
- you tried to turn an internet relationship and then 3 meetups into 'something more meaningful" and then went on to marry her after very little time together
- this woman is older than you
- she's 27 and in Ukraine is deemed "leftovers" for good reason. It's not just societal, there are biological issues with women of this age who have not had children yet, and they are incredibly susceptible to the "dark side" pull of the Anglosphere's "YOLO" and "I'm a strong independent woman and I don't need a man" shit that destroys men and relationships all over the place
- you put looks above almost everything else with regards to a "marriage" candidate. I can't blame you for this, especially given the dog shit we're offered up back home in the US. But clearly, very attractive "princess" types who have had it easy their whole life and never had to endure hardship, were pedastalized etc. are typically not going to be good candidates for motherhood and marriage. Lot of thought has gone into Travesty's threads on this and how marrying 8+s adds entire new levels of complexity & "maintaining frame" into a relationship and staying married that I for one never would want to deal with. And even in Ukraine when you get into the high 7s and 8s these girls have options and get a lot of attention so I don't buy the Hollywood-ish "she doesn't know she's beautiful" garbage.
- her work ethic seems to be poor
- mother is apparently fat and a recluse ("like mother like daughter")
- imported her into an Anglosphere country where the datable/marriageable male to female ratio is horribly skewed
- etc. etc.

So this isn't really about this girl being "Ukrainain" per se, as WIA stated.

OP also wrote these things which to me seem to indicate some "one-itis" and "pedastalization":

"She was everything a man could ever want. She is gorgeous, feminine, smart, funny, family oriented, etc."

Really? And at 27 too! So there are zero other younger, more fertile, less broken women out there? Come on.....

Unfortunately, practically any woman you import into the (unfortunately) somewhat toxic and destructive social culture of the US is going to be tempted so hard upon "settling in" that it's difficult to believe they will not fall victim to all the destructive marriage/relationship stuff going on.

Maybe just "live & learn" and try to move on the best you can with this. But be aware that the "juice is almost never worth the squeeze" and marriage in general is a set of trade-offs in the West and really should only be for guys who want to have kids and who have experienced a lot of women already and can be discreet about any playing around post-marriage. The potential financial and emotional pain & damage (if you lose access to your kids for example) are just to huge to play around with.