[Germanicus]

(02-09-2016 12:03 PM)fenetre Wrote:  

Man, I really try to read Rollo's articles in full but my eyes go square with the all the text. It's never-ending. How does it take so many words to say one thing?

I never liked Rollo's writing. It always struck me that his writing was a direct copy of Heartiste. Except Heartiste wrote with some style and Rollo's rip-offs were verbose and pretentious.

Plus when he got butthurt about neo-masculinity. That right there is a tell of just how much of a small-time, small thinking loser Rollo is.

To rip off and modify one of the few smart things Karl Marx ever said: Internet bloggers have always bitched and moaned about the world, but the point is to change it.

We're changing it, and he's making chump change cowering on his internet site, forever whining that women are up to no good but doing nothing about it.

[Blaster]

Quote:

My concern isn’t how he handled this, it’s why he put himself (and other men who admire him) into this. My concern is that any genuineness he might’ve had about Neomasculinity is suspect of being just a vehicle for his own notoriety. If that’s the direction he’s chosen to go, if that’s how he’s decided to turn a dollar, I wish him good luck, but he’s become a dishonest broker of outrage at the expense (in some cases physically and financially) of the men who believed he was sincere.

False dichotomy. Personal, ideological, and stated goals not being perfectly aligned doesn't mean they're in serious conflict with each other.

Seriously, did he even think this through? Even supposing the whole thing was a gambit to gain notoriety (which I don't buy, for the record), what would have happened if that scheme fell through? The successful coordination of a worldwide meetup event for hundreds of RoK readers? That sounds like a pretty fucking win-win situation to me. Rollo can only dream of the ego gratification that would come from pulling off an event like that.

Personally, my take is that the primary objective was a successful event, gaining notoriety from the lying dishonest press and showing them up at the press conference was the contingency plan. A perfect example of an antifragile move.

[Blaster]

Rollo Wrote:

If you read through the Deadbedrooms or Divorce subredds, there are countless men there who would save or change their lives if they embraced Red Pill awareness, but for whatever reason they get violently hostile at any mention of a TRP solution to their circumstances. How many of these fence-riders will look at Roosh and just have all those biases confirmed about TRP now?

I guess that depends on how many men take sensational articles in The Daily Mail, etc. at face value, and whether anyone not willing to look beneath the surface is ready for "The Red Pill" anyway.

[Blueberry]

His article must makes us all wonder why did Roosh create a meetup and leave it known to everyone?

Roosh is not stupid.

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

So Rollo's article actually makes sense and might give us the reason why he did it anyway.

Kind of disappointing if this is actually the truth.

Let's see if i'm banned for saying that.

[Thoroughbred]

Roosh stepped to the podium and called for a world wide meetup of his and associated authors readership. That is actually making progress in this thing.

What is everyone else waiting for, are we going to change the situation for men from behind our key boards?

You get massive props from me for taking the hit to your character and personal situation that being the figurehead of this movement entails.

I mean we all saw it, ugly, ugly, shit.

That kind of move comes with a bit of notoriety, when the personal cost is so high, who is anyone to criticise a man wanting to play what he could of that to his own gain in the process, and still keep the message pure?

Having said that, there are elements of what Rollo is saying that do have validity. I mentioned elsewhere I did see opportunities in the Australia media at least where Roosh could have taken the mouth piece role over paying up the big bad wolf character the media was hanging on him.

It's already pretty impressive as we saw in the press conference, but I'm sure this has been a crash course for Roosh in PR and being a public figure and his game in this sense will only be on the up from here.

This is a small movement though, and an embattled one. Enemies on all sides. How many people here are there who if their account on this forum was publicly linked to them and made known at their place of work would be in danger of losing their jobs?

Roosh and Rollo hit different segments of this community that are on the same page. It's too small for rivalries and inflaming one gets us no where. While not naive enough to think anyone is going to kiss and make up, I think something along the lines of a podcast where Roosh and Rollo could respectfully spar on their differing points, and highlight their areas of mutuality, would be a great thing to see.

[Ghost Tiger]

(02-09-2016 05:15 PM)Blueberry Wrote:  

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

Roosh knew there would be some resistance but no one envisioned this order of magnitude. Size matters buds.

[Blaster]

(02-09-2016 05:15 PM)Blueberry Wrote:  

His article must makes us all wonder why did Roosh create a meetup and leave it known to everyone?

Roosh is not stupid.

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

He also posted guidelines for what to do if SJWs showed up, which was probably considered to be a low to minimal risk at all but a few locations (eg Montreal).

I suspect that some amount of controversial coverage was anticipated, but did not expect The Daily Mail, NY Post, Anonymous, and Australia and UK Governments to also get involved and blow the thing sky high.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Quote:

His article must makes us all wonder why did Roosh create a meetup and leave it known to everyone?

Roosh is not stupid.

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

So Rollo's article actually makes sense and might give us the reason why he did it anyway.

Kind of disappointing if this is actually the truth.

Let's see if i'm banned for saying that.

I called Rollo out for this same stupid lie on twitter. Let's see if I hear back.

I was one of the meetup organizers, and so I had a chance to get a bit of a behind the scenes look at what was going on. Roosh always, always made the safety of the meetup attendees his first priority.

It was Roosh who called off the meetups. All the organizers were ready to go ahead with them regardless of the danger. Rollo has this image in his mind of master manipulator Roosh using subtle Jedi mind tricks to make us put ourselves at risk so he could be famous. This couldn't be further from the truth. We organizers weren't the ones who had to persuade Roosh to stop. It was Roosh who had to persuade us to stop.

I remember the exact words he used when we asked him why he'd canceled. He told the group, "I know you're all disappointed, but I don't want someone coming to me on Monday and saying, 'Roosh, I lost my job over this.'"

There were a few people who dropped out before the big cancellation, mostly in particularly dangerous places like Melbourne and Germany. Roosh didn't give them a hard time over it at all. No one did.

And the idea that Roosh was doing this to deliberately provoke controversy is absurd. No one had any idea things would get this big. The meetup post was up for almost a month without generating any news at all. There was less than a week to go before it hit Reddit, then Australia, then Europe, and then the US national papers. None of us, including Roosh, saw this coming. Did you notice how his twitter went from joking posts asking reporters for blowjobs to deadly serious in the span of about 48 hours? That was the time period when it really started to sink in that this had gotten out of control.

The cancellation, by the way, was real. Anyone who met last week organized it on their own, with no help whatsoever from Roosh or anyone at Return of Kings. Roosh deleted the private chatroom for organizers once we learned that it was compromised, so he couldn't even talk to most of us. Anyone who met up anyway did so without a word of help or encouragment from him.

I still don't entirely understand what happened last week. I don't know if anyone does. It felt like something out of a spy movie, or an old Chesterton novel.
I saw real threats that groups were going to disrupt my meetup with bats. I asked a buddy who's a cop if I should laugh them off, and he said, "No, you need to treat threats from (the people with the bats) as being very credible."
I was using burner emails to contact burner phones, and taking all communications off the forum because I thought it might have been compromised. I had to change the time and location, and even then I had to share secret code phrases.
Later in the evening, I went by the location of the original meetup. There were 4 cops there, two in plainclothes and two in uniform, hands on their guns and glaring at me.

The idea that this whole thing was a TROLOLOL publicity stunt, with Roosh gleefully mocking the media and cashing in at their expense, is dumb. Rollo should be embarrassed for advancing it at all. Rollo should be embarrassed about a lot of things, actually.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(02-09-2016 05:15 PM)Blueberry Wrote:  

Let's see if i'm banned for saying that.

[Ghost Tiger]

(02-09-2016 06:12 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

I was one of the meetup organizers, and so I had a chance to get a bit of a behind the scenes look at what was going on. Roosh always, always made the safety of the meetup attendees his first priority.

It was Roosh who called off the meetups. All the organizers were ready to go ahead with them regardless of the danger. Rollo has this image in his mind of master manipulator Roosh using subtle Jedi mind tricks to make us put ourselves at risk so he could be famous. This couldn't be further from the truth. We organizers weren't the ones who had to persuade Roosh to stop. It was Roosh who had to persuade us to stop.

I remember the exact words he used when we asked him why he'd canceled. He told the group, "I know you're all disappointed, but I don't want someone coming to me on Monday and saying, 'Roosh, I lost my job over this.'"

Can confirm 100% of that post as a fellow organizer. Bang on.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(02-09-2016 11:19 AM)fenetre Wrote:  

Potentially OT but relevant in my eyes. Writers who publish books littered with spelling, grammatical, and punctuation errors greatly irritate me. Rollo's theory is pretty solid as a theoretical foundation in intersexual dynamics but his books, I and II, have evidently not been proofread. What kind of a man skips this fundamental step?

Aside from this, Rollo preaches but Roosh practices. Rollo comes across as obsessive and controlling whereas Roosh is a man of action, an on-the-ground leader, if you will.

Not irrelevant at all. Actually pretty important for two reasons.

First, spelling is the engine that drives clear writing. If that's flawed, it's like driving a car with a knock in the motor -- it becomes a distraction and detracts from the experience.

But second, lack of attention to detail shows contempt for the buying public. It's like a builder who doesn't use the right kind of nails or the auto repairman who puts in a substandard hose.

And, yes, I've been known to make typo or ten on here, but I'm not selling you anything. When my book was published, it was proofread twice-over. (I'm Italian and felt any errors would stereotype me as being a dimwit like Joey from "Friends" -- haha.)

***

Not to pile on, but one of Rollo's sayings is "Hypergamy doesn't care." I think this is not only inaccurate, but a bad message to send to younger guys.

It would be amusing if we could do a meme featuring men we knew who did end runs around so-called hypergamy.

Example: I have a high school friend who is like 5' tall who married -- and stayed married -- to a much taller, hotter blonde from our school. Then there's the poor guy from a Baltimore blue-collar dump called Essex (gag) I set up with a hot Hispanic whose dad is a major financial player. They're still married.

I know enough examples like this to make me question the whole premise of hypergamy being as important as some people say. When exceptions start to pile up, you need to question the rule.

[brob]

I think Rollo was wrong on this one as well. If Roosh was doing this for pure notoriety then the meetings would have never been cancelled. A doxxing shitstorm would have ensued and we would have had dozens of guys potentially terminated from their jobs. We would have seen a lot more YouTube videos beyond what we've seen in Seattle and Montreal. We all saw the shitstorm coming and saw that it wasn't worth it.

When the meeting locations were posted publicly, sure, we all anticipated a little blowback, but nothing we couldn't outmaneuver. We had no way of knowing that the opposition was going to stoop to levels they stooped to that would rally up a hysterical mob using complete falsehoods. I didn't put much stock in the media prior to 2/6 but post-2/6 I see what they are really capable of now.

No one predicted the magnitude of the hysteria.

That being said, Rollo certainly has plenty of genius contributions to the 'sphere that shouldn't be overlooked due to whatever falling out has occurred. Yes, the contributions are rather cold and analytical but he's never claimed to be a hands-on teacher of high energy game, charisma, banter, storytelling, or any of the actual tactics and skills needed to pull.

His shtick is breaking down the Game in a more academic way. It may not be the most entertaining or funniest read but the insight he's shared is highly valuable. There are times when I'll be reading TRM, stop for a second to say "Holy shit that's brilliant", then resume reading.

Unfortunately, Outrage Brokers drove the wedge deeper where a divide doesn't even need to exist.

It gets people talking though. People are weighing in through Disqus comments, Subreddits, YouTube videos, and now RVF threads. It gets traffic sent to and from all that participate in the beef. Not that those types of things are the sole intent, I believe this particular falling out to be rooted in genuine disagreements. But nonetheless an uptick in traffic, however slight, is always a beef byproduct worth noting.

[thoughtgypsy]

I wrote what I thought was a relatively neutral comment on his hit piece, attempting to help him see the events with more clarity. No response from Rollo, but the replies I got from the commenters who religiously follow him were accusatory, snarky, and pedantic. Strange bedfellows indeed. I'm wondering if it was such a good idea to reach out to him after all.

[Blaster]

Quote:

I didn't put much stock in the media prior to 2/6 but post-2/6 I see what they are really capable of now.

Truth is I am so jaded by this point, I wasn't even surprised. These days, when I see a sensational headline about someone who supposedly said something offensive, I know two things with absolute certainty:

(1) The article itself is going to be a meandering mess with little substance and lots of sneaky, dishonest rhetoric in support of some painfully obvious agenda.

(2) Following up and actually reading any of the source material will result in discovery of facts that undermine if not completely contradict the entire article.

[Speculation]

As I've said elsewhere, I don't think the inflammatory tweets Roosh made leading up to the event helped with the security of the meetups. They brought a lot of unnecessary heat. Roosh painted himself as the bogeyman to court controversy and feed publicity which gave the governments and media extra rope to hang him with.

That said, his approach was no different from the highly successful Canada tour and no one could have predicted that the same tactics would result in the firestorm that blew up over this. I found his tweets hilarious until I realised that they would be used as 'evidence' to paint the group as evil, but that was only after the news cycle reached critical mass and took on a life of its own.

I think Roosh deliberately added to the heat, but I definitely don't think he pre-planned for a meltdown that would put members at risk. If he made a mistake, it was in underestimating the media/govt/SJW response, which in context was a completely understandable error.

Rollo was being uncharitable in his view, at least partially due to his past history with Roosh.

[justforfun19713]

(02-09-2016 08:10 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

I wrote what I thought was a relatively neutral comment on his hit piece, attempting to help him see the events with more clarity. No response from Rollo, but the replies I got from the commenters who religiously follow him were accusatory, snarky, and pedantic....

Ever notice in an in-person convo how someone who is wrong tends to get louder and louder? The equivalent online response is being verbose and pedantic. No harm in responding though, true colors tend to show pretty quickly there.

[Enigma]

Rollo just tweeted a link to an article about a woman in Iceland accusing Roosh of rape and urging more women to come out and accuse him:

Quote:

When he was done in the bathroom he faced Susan and said, “Are you home alone?”

“Yes,” she said.

Then he asked her to touch his penis. When she refused, Roosh grabbed her.

Susan started crying and said, “Why are you doing this? You’re crazy.”

He laughed and overpowered her with force, saying, “All girls like this. It’s every woman’s fantasy. You don’t even know what you’re saying. You’re drunk, but I like drunk girls.” And then, according to Susan, he raped her.

Of course, it's clearly a lie. Yet that doesn't stop him from slandering Roosh.

EDIT: I archived the page to keep here shitty little website from getting clicks: https://archive.is/xNgyv

[spokepoker]

Sounds like he wants some of that media pie that Roosh baked, unfortunately, it's been all ate up.
There might be a piece left, but it's been maybe 3 days old now, unrefrigerated, not very nutritional.

[GlobalMan]

Rollo is regurgitated Heartiste, but banal and years late. He then repeats his regurgitations over and over. I don't know what value one could find in reading Rollo for more than a dozen blog posts. Just the same stuff.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Quote:

Rollo just tweeted a link to an article about a woman in Iceland accusing Roosh of rape and urging more women to come out and accuse him:

Quote:
When he was done in the bathroom he faced Susan and said, “Are you home alone?”

“Yes,” she said.

Then he asked her to touch his penis. When she refused, Roosh grabbed her.

Susan started crying and said, “Why are you doing this? You’re crazy.”

He laughed and overpowered her with force, saying, “All girls like this. It’s every woman’s fantasy. You don’t even know what you’re saying. You’re drunk, but I like drunk girls.” And then, according to Susan, he raped her.

Of course, it's clearly a lie. Yet that doesn't stop him from slandering Roosh.

EDIT: I archived the page to keep here shitty little website from getting clicks: https://archive.is/xNgyv

Wow, Rollo is really acting like a stupid child here.
This was a man who wrote on his website that you couldn't believe the UVA hoax because of its "obvious melodramatic dialogue". Now he's sharing an article with lines like, "“All girls like this. It’s every woman’s fantasy. You don’t even know what you’re saying. You’re drunk, but I like drunk girls.” and, "You have a beautiful but sad walk."?

That's not a credible claim of rape. That's a poorly written penthouse fantasy letter.

This is a man who's built his whole career around the idea of "resisting the feminine imperative", and the need to think critically and evaluate rather than blindly trust everything a woman says. But when push comes to shove, he throws out an entire ideology that he's spent half a decade building, just to score a cheap shot at an enemy.

What a small, petty little child. Why should anyone bother reading this person, or believing what he writes, when he so clearly doesn't believe it himself? Why should anyone trust a Men's Rights Activist who spreads false rape accusations?

I've felt for a long time now that Rollo is an overrated writer. He's long-winded and uses a lot of imprecise, vague words that seem to have no value other than the fact that Rollo Tomassi invented them. I've been reading him on and off for years, and I still don't have a clear idea of what the hell a Feminine Imperative is, beyond "something involving women that Rollo doesn't like." But that's fine. There are lots of overrated writers on the internet.

Spreading false rape accusations about a man just because he doesn't like them goes against everything this part of the internet is supposed to stand for. He needs to shut the hell up and get the fuck out.

[CynicalContrarian]

(02-09-2016 12:44 PM)therealpoder Wrote:  

I lost interest in The Rational Male's work long ago. It was interesting at first but how many articles can you write about hypergamy, feminist imperative and sexual market place value?

I don't see anything wrong with Roosh advertising the meet up on websites. How will people know about it if he doesn't announce it? What better place to announce it than on his blog and return of kings website? There are people who don't read this forum but are read those sites and would be open to attending.

And what's wrong with monetize his information? Intellectual work is work and one should get paid for it. If his readers don't find value in it, they won't pay for it. Simple. Free market Econ 101.

If I ever met Rollo Tomassi in person, I'd have no choice but to shake the mans hand.
He was a great influence in exposing me to "Red Pill" theory & human behaviour from a "Red Pill" perspective.
Also, his (almost too clinical) articles at the time were probably just what I needed. As opposed to material such as "day game vs. night game".

However...
I also can only read Rollo's beloved buzzwords so many times to the point where I feel I have a pretty good grasp of... "Rollo Method".

Just like I skip Voxday's writings about SJW neutered science fiction & sci-fi awards.
Just like I skip most of Mike Cernovich's trolling of naïve fools on Twitter.
Just like I skip most of Milo's gay taunts.

What I don't do however, is grandstand & postulate on how those four should conduct their business & try to enforce my preferred interests onto them.
What was that about leading a horse to water?

Anyway, isn't Rollo a psychologist or some such? Perhaps with the hints of envy / jealousy, it should be a case of "doctor heal thyself".

[GlobalMan]

(02-10-2016 03:57 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Just like I skip Voxday's writings about SJW neutered science fiction & sci-fi awards.
Just like I skip most of Mike Cernovich's trolling of naïve fools on Twitter.
Just like I skip most of Milo's gay taunts.

What I don't do however, is grandstand & postulate on how those four should conduct their business & try to enforce my preferred interests onto them.

Recognizing those who mock you does not equate to "grandstanding & postulating"

This is not the result of guys forcing their interests on Rollo, the man has repeatedly ridiculed others' interests, in a bitch way, without provocation.

[262]

Fyi, CH is not on board with Rollo's accusation either. Two of the three R's (Roosh & Roissy) are more than one (Rollo).

https://twitter.com/ChateauEmissary/stat...0779183105

"Survey says... rapethatneverhappened.txt
Seriously, it reads like a feminist rape fantasy."

Edit: I can see why Rollo is doing this though. How many times can you write about hypergamy, etc? It's like asking Roosh and Roissy how many times they can write about Game.

[CynicalContrarian]

(02-10-2016 04:23 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(02-10-2016 03:57 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Just like I skip Voxday's writings about SJW neutered science fiction & sci-fi awards.
Just like I skip most of Mike Cernovich's trolling of naïve fools on Twitter.
Just like I skip most of Milo's gay taunts.

What I don't do however, is grandstand & postulate on how those four should conduct their business & try to enforce my preferred interests onto them.

Recognizing those who mock you does not equate to "grandstanding & postulating"

This is not the result of guys forcing their interests on Rollo, the man has repeatedly ridiculed others' interests, in a bitch way, without provocation.

I was referring to Rollo as well.
I read that Outrage Brokers article last night & gathered the impression that Rollo either looked at the past week with bias,
or wasn't aware of all the particulars & as such, isn't in a position to take such a grandstanding position.

[spokepoker]

Maybe Rolling Stone will publish her story.