[Isaac Jordan]

(02-10-2016 02:48 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Rollo is regurgitated Heartiste, but banal and years late. He then repeats his regurgitations over and over. I don't know what value one could find in reading Rollo for more than a dozen blog posts. Just the same stuff.

(02-10-2016 03:57 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

I also can only read Rollo's beloved buzzwords so many times to the point where I feel I have a pretty good grasp of... "Rollo Method".

Just like I skip Voxday's writings about SJW neutered science fiction & sci-fi awards.
Just like I skip most of Mike Cernovich's trolling of naïve fools on Twitter.
Just like I skip most of Milo's gay taunts.

Anyone familiar with Roissy's early writings ('07-'09) knows how massively influential his ideas were at the time, at least to those in our little corner of the Internet. It wasn't initially called the "roissysphere" for nothing. His intimate understanding of the sexual marketplace and his ability to delineate its most important concepts paved the way for every Game blogger to follow. If Mystery and his PUAs were Game 1.0, Roissy most certainly upgraded the scene to 2.0.

While Rollo's early writings didn't have the same paradigm-shifting impact of Roissy's, he made several important contributions during his first year of posting. I happened to stumble upon his blog just as he was getting started, and posts like The Medium is the Message, Just Get It, Operative Social Conventions, and The Cardinal Rule of Relationships dramatically deepened my understanding of social and sexual dynamics and provided a concrete foundation for my new red-pill worldview.

While the majority of Rollo's writings are fundamentally steeped in theory, several of these early posts stand out for their ability to instantly improve one's practice of Game:

-Buffers remains a solid critique of the rationalizations men use to avoid the sting of rejection.

-Relationship Equity gives a name to a concept many of us now understand intuitively, but newcomers still struggle with: that while men recognize (and attempt to reward/reciprocate) time/effort/money/attention contributed to a relationship, women frequently do not, and no level of investment in a relationship guarantees a man a profitable return. (Appreciation follows up on this concept as well.)

-The Feminine Reality, in which Rollo debuts the term "feminine imperative," is another good example of naming an important concept that until then had flown under the radar. In his post The Fundamental Premise, Roissy puts forth the idea that because women are biologically more valuable than men, and because culture flows forth organically from biology, society will often find itself promoting women's welfare and ideas over that of men. While Rollo did little more than flesh this idea out with examples, his creation of the phrase "feminine imperative" provided an easy catch-all that allowed the manosphere to further its discussion of this important concept.

-Finally, his Navigating the SMP provided one of the best visuals the manosphere has ever seen, in addition to an excellent critique of the modern woman's dating strategy (Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks).

...

My point here is that theory has its place. We all remember the days when newbies were directed to "the three Rs: Roissy, Roosh, Rollo." Their early material will stand the test of time, regardless of their current writings or positions, and they ought to serve as reference material to anyone new to the red pill/manosphere.

That being said, there's a reason many of us have stopped reading Heartiste and Rollo, and why Roosh no longer writes much about Game: most of the important stuff has already been covered.

When you're introduced to a novel theory, your first step should be to hit the streets and use your new understanding of the world to test the underlying hypothesis. Anyone with a firm grasp of the basics is better off doing a dozen approaches than reading another thread on abundance mentality. Knowledge without action is useless.

Roosh understands this, the Forum (for the most part) understands this, and it's why we're seeing a shift away from Game and towards things like politics, entrepreneurship, and lifestyle design. Game will continue to draw the newbies in, but as more of us check off "women" from our list of life to-do's, we'll see less time and energy invested into a field where most of the heavy lifting was done years ago.

Rollo does not seem to understand this. He's trying to squeeze blood from a stone by digging deeper into theory, while Roosh is blazing a trail into the future by focusing instead on action: he's uniting his followers and building real relationships in meatspace, instead of simply rehashing dated concepts with contrived vernacular. I appreciate Rollo for his contributions to the community, but my allegiance is clear: as a man of action, I stand with Roosh.

[Gustavus Adolphus]

L.A Confidential called and is not pleased by this behavior. You are the weakest link. Goodbye, Rollo.

[Mercenary]

(02-10-2016 12:18 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

Rollo does not seem to understand this. He's trying to squeeze blood from a stone by continuing to dig deeper into theory, while Roosh is blazing a trail into the future by focusing instead on action: he's uniting his followers and building real relationships in meatspace, instead of simply rehashing dated concepts with contrived vernacular. I appreciate Rollo for his contributions to the community, but my allegiance is clear:

as a man of action, I stand with Roosh.

[HonantheBarbarian]

I respected a lot of Rollo's writing, but I can't get behind this.

My copy of Rational Male is going into mall trash can as I type this.

Good riddance, I felt like if I had to read the word "feminine imperative" one more time I was going to shot myself in the fucking head.

[HonantheBarbarian]

Dupe

[Lizard King]

(02-10-2016 08:16 AM)Khan Wrote:  

Ah, Rollo Tomassi. If I recall correctly, Rollo was the first manosphere blogger I stumbled upon after discovering the red pill. At first I found his ideas interesting, but after a while I lost interest in his writing.

If I had to describe his writing in just one word, I'd call it sterile. Reading his blog made me wonder if the guy has any fun in life, some of his articles are that depressive. Just look at this article. I would definitely not recommend something like this to a newcomer to the red pill.

Also, his writing is extremely complicated and full of psychology technobabble. I'm not a native English speaker and my English is not perfect, but I do feel my argument is valid as I occasionally have to read scientific papers in physics for work, and I don't have any problems reading that. I do have problems when reading The Rational Male, however. Two examples from his latest article:

Quote:

It was irony, it was juxtaposition to expose a counter point

Quote:

It was an essay in exposing the duplicity of women’s hypoagency

What the fuck are juxtaposition and hypoagency? When I read someone's work, I don't want to be forced to grab a dictionary every time the author tries to make a point. Words and phrases like this are completely redundant, as he can easily make a point and convey his message without them. Because of this I have an impression Rollo has some kind of a complex, forcing him to overcompensate in this matter to make himself seem more scientific and educated.

It's a shame, as he did have some good ideas and concepts.

To answer your question about the meaning and context of those words.

Juxtaposition means placement of two items together. Rollo is referring to Roosh's Stop Rape article, in which two concepts are placed together.

I think the sentence was poorly written, but I'm very pedantic. I think it would have explained things better if he had written: "juxtaposition of ideas". Instead, it is as if he blurts out "it's juxtaposition", as if he were having an intense face-to-face debate where the context of the word would have been much more obvious.

Hypo-agency simply means: lack of agency. Where hyper is 'a lot', hypo is 'hardly any, almost zero'. He adds an explanation himself " the idea that certain individuals (e.g. women) lack agency in their own actions.".

[dads]

I apologize for not getting terribly in depth with this, but I find it odd that Rollo is being criticized for continually writing about the same topics. Rollo is catering to the constant turnover of newbies in the manosphere, not guys that are past that stage. He's married with a job and a kid, he's as evolved as he's going to be and his main goal is to help men understand the culture they exist in. I don't think anyone would speak negatively on Milton Friedman for continually writing about economics, but not running for public office to enact a change.

In my opinion, regardless of any infighting between them, I think Roosh, Rollo and Roissy are the foundation for any man'sunseratanding of how he fits into the world. While Roosh and Roissy offer action, Rollo offers understanding. Ultimately, to act without understanding is undoubtedly foolish. If you have too much of either, you will never truly pick up what the manosphere is putting down.

[Suits]

(02-10-2016 11:23 AM)doc holliday Wrote:  

That's brutal. Rollo, the irrational female. If he decides to continue down this road of false accusations against Roosh , then perhaps Roosh or someone on his behalf should remove Rollo's cloak of anonymity. Seeing how guarded he is about it, I can't imagine he would take it very well.

This isn't how we operate here. Don't even suggest this.

[Green-On-GO]

Rollo said he was warning Roosh with the tweet..Giving him a heads up

I've been reading Rollos comments since the meetup saga.
He does accuse Roosh of putting he's followers in harms way with the meetup but he goes on to defend Roosh's article.He calls it irony and from what I can tell agrees with it.And Rooshs right to say it.Anyone going against Roosh's article has caused a defence of Roosh by Rollo and most commenters.In my opinion Rollo had safety concerns.Most believe Roosh's press conference was a success.
Funny how everyone over there says Roosh is finished as you say here Rollo is finished.
RSD doesn't care and is rolling in cash.

The best thing about the RVF fuck up as I call it is that it's brought 3 more blokes over to my side..Good guys not dick heads.I've been vocal at work with guys and walked them through it..No resistance..Like I said before on a thread,dominate the ground around you with aggressive patrolling..

Old school would have been Rollo and Roosh going behind the shed to duke it out..Shaking hands having a beer ..now however..

[Geomann180]

(02-09-2016 08:10 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

I wrote what I thought was a relatively neutral comment on his hit piece, attempting to help him see the events with more clarity. No response from Rollo, but the replies I got from the commenters who religiously follow him were accusatory, snarky, and pedantic. Strange bedfellows indeed. I'm wondering if it was such a good idea to reach out to him after all.

Pearls before swine.

G

[Blaster]

dads Wrote:

I apologize for not getting terribly in depth with this, but I find it odd that Rollo is being criticized for continually writing about the same topics.

Well, if that's all it was, I think people would keep their criticism to themselves or merely offer it up as explanation for why they don't bother reading. But Rollo arrogantly decided to openly speculate the worst about Roosh's honesty and integrity, so in response Roosh fans are openly speculating that Rollo is green with envy over Roosh's success and can't resist taking petty, passive aggressive cheap shots between melancholy, pretentious rehashing of topics better covered by Roissy and Roosh.

[doc holliday]

(02-10-2016 06:16 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(02-10-2016 11:23 AM)doc holliday Wrote:  

That's brutal. Rollo, the irrational female. If he decides to continue down this road of false accusations against Roosh , then perhaps Roosh or someone on his behalf should remove Rollo's cloak of anonymity. Seeing how guarded he is about it, I can't imagine he would take it very well.

This isn't how we operate here. Don't even suggest this.

Yeah I probably made an error in judgement when I posted that. Nevertheless, it still bothers me tremendously that this Rollo would go to these lengths to slam Roosh and all of us in this manner. But you're right, your criticism is well founded.

[Paracelsus]

(02-10-2016 08:16 PM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  

Rollo said he was warning Roosh with the tweet..Giving him a heads up

Warning someone via a public tweet that the whole planet can see rather than the courtesy of a PM or similar is not a head's up. It's about as ingenuous as a public rape accusation.

[Gorgiass]

(02-10-2016 11:49 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(02-10-2016 08:16 PM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  

Rollo said he was warning Roosh with the tweet..Giving him a heads up

Warning someone via a public tweet that the whole planet can see rather than the courtesy of a PM or similar is not a head's up. It's about as ingenuous as a public rape accusation.

Add to that his "Looks like this slipped under everyone's radar" or whatever, instead of the more appropriate "And 2016 has a strong contender for the fiction Pulitzer already" Yeah, really low.

[Phoenix]

So he's the guy that made that bullshit SMV age graph that's been circulating ever since? That graph is pure fiction. I hope no one actually takes it at face value.

[SamuelBRoberts]

You mean the graph by a 36-year old man that says 36-year old men are the hottest item around?
Yeah, that was him.

[dads]

(02-10-2016 09:09 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

dads Wrote:

I apologize for not getting terribly in depth with this, but I find it odd that Rollo is being criticized for continually writing about the same topics.

Well, if that's all it was, I think people would keep their criticism to themselves or merely offer it up as explanation for why they don't bother reading. But Rollo arrogantly decided to openly speculate the worst about Roosh's honesty and integrity, so in response Roosh fans are openly speculating that Rollo is green with envy over Roosh's success and can't resist taking petty, passive aggressive cheap shots between melancholy, pretentious rehashing of topics better covered by Roissy and Roosh.

Valid. I'm speculating here, but I think there may be some (Rollo Verbosity incoming) generational misjudgment on his part. I don't think he has any ulterior motives or is trying to compensate. I legitimately believe that he feels what Roosh is doing is bad for men and the manosphere, and he has every right to share his opinion. I think he's severely misjudging how effective Roosh is at bringing attention to the manosphere. Finding this place changed my life, but you know how I found out? Someone posted about Fat Shaming Week on my Facebook feed and down the rabbit hole I went. Rollo is older, and when I read that post, I felt more of a "get off my lawn" vibe than anything that a lot of the users here are saying.

[Irenicus]

Yeah, his SMV graph is only partially true. You are not going to be attractive just because you are 36.

[262]

^^^
To be fair, I think he did state that you have to work.

An 18-year-old basement dweller is not going to become more attractive by just sitting in his basement for another 18 years.

[wi30]

That graph is great in theory, provided a number of assumptions are met.

That pretty much describes the remainder of his work as well.

[Phoenix]

The graph is full bullshit. Not even the female peak is correct -- 18 or 20 is believable not 23. The guy just scribbled it out based on nothing and people are treating it like actual information because it looks like a graph. The only concept it gets right is the fact that women tend to be with older men and vice versa, but that's the most obvious thing in the world. There is nothing insightful or informative or even correct about that graph.

[Mercenary]

Just noticed this...but it should have triggered alarm bells somewhere at the time.


This is Rollo's idea of a HB 9.8

NSFW thread on RvF
thread-3335-...#pid130597



Rollo's perfect female is Jaime Eason - a bodybuilding, short haired, woman with muscles who is almost 40 years old.

[eradicator]

(02-12-2016 10:17 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Just noticed this...but it should have triggered alarm bells somewhere at the time.


This is Rollo's idea of a HB 9.8

NSFW thread on RvF
thread-3335-...#pid130597



Rollo's perfect female is Jaime Eason - a bodybuilding, short haired, woman with muscles who is almost 40 years old.

That was a post from 5 years ago, and the photo is probably more like 10 years old. The women that do bodybuilding competitions are generally in great shape, but no, I would not consider that girl a 9.8 even in her prime, maybe a 7.5, would bang, would not kick out of bed.

[RedPillUK]

What kind of a faggot spreads a false rape accusation against Roosh, even when he's written ten million words on the feminine imperative? He's outed himself as a hypocritical loser and keyboard alpha now.

[ladderff]

Lot of damaging stuff in this thread about Rollo that I didn't know! I thought he was being a dick before I saw it. If I were to ignore these things and be as charitable as possible to him, and then sum up the R-R difference, it would be on the question of inclusiveness. In one of the original anti-Roosh articles Rollo rhetorically asked if someone like Jack Donovan would be welcome under the banner of neomasculinity. He seems to want to be able to say that "the Red Pill is for everybody" or at least everybody who is biologically male. But of course there's more to being a man than being male, and when after this whole dustup emerged I browsed over to /trp/ or however you write it, I saw a lot of people there who barely qualify. Roosh's approach is the correct one. [/i]

My verdict on Rollo's work is that he can be insightful but he is tainted by his liberal streak: note in addition to his emphasis on inclusiveness his obsession with money and profit and the notion of Roosh's making a living by his writing and related efforts. I'm sure Rollo thinks that his Feminine Imperative paradigm (or one-string violin, depending on how you look at it) transcends notions of left- vs right-wing—but anyone who thinks he's doing is ultimately left wing.

So in case it isn't clear, I think Rollo's attacks on Roosh are 99% bullshit. I do hope however that Roosh does not make the same mistake (of believing that neomasculinity can/does "transcend" the left-right distinction). Roosh, something I've wondered a long time: how much of Moldbug have you read?