[Phoenix]

Who?

[Roosh]

He said that I was a sell out for creating neomasculinity.

Then he partners with Christian McQueen.

His behavior can be seen as a man fighting for relevancy.

[MiscBrah]

(02-09-2016 10:30 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Heartiste can put across the exact same negative ideas, but he'll have you laughing along because of his sarcasm and wordplay. This is important. By contrast, reading Rollo sometimes feels like you're going before a drill sergeant.

I see a lot of people around this part of the web talk about how "The Rational Male" is such a good book.

I've tried reading in numerous times and it always put me to sleep before I could make it very far.

I read through BANG in almost one session if that tells you something.

[Huey]

I bought The Rational Male a few months ago and have only read the first 10 pages. I'm pretty sure it was proofread by Stevie Wonder.

[I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE]

I don't get how Roosh is personally responsible for this. Sounds a bit like victim balming, which is problemaaaaatic.

Roosh just called out a nice date for some like minded guys to meet up and have a chill evening together. People wanted to meet up themselves, meetups didn't cost anything. Sounds like some butthurt sour grapes from Rollo's side. Dude should be slamming the rabid SJWs and dishonest media instead of cannibalizing and infighting.

[fenetre]

Man, I really try to read Rollo's articles in full but my eyes go square with the all the text. It's never-ending. How does it take so many words to say one thing?

Edit: have you seen some of the comments? Some of these guys compose 2,000 word responses to his articles. It seems like time is plentiful over there for these "in-demand" men

[thoughtgypsy]

Rollo's tone in that article sounds off compared to the content he's put out prior. He's written a lot of great material, and has helped men for years before attempting to monetize anything. I wonder if he's going through some personal issues, and is using his platform to vent.

It's natural for men to disagree, but to unjustly disparage is completely uncalled for. His mischaracterization of the events in the past week reek of animosity and show the same level of gas lighting he bemoans of the 'journalists' he speaks of. As an amateur student of marketing, I get the impression that Rollo's choice of language shows an intent to attack, not inform. Rollo is a marketing guru and he knows what he's doing. If he disagreed with his approach, he should have been much more even handed. Of course there will be disagreements and we should avoid groupthink whenever possible. But we don't need to air out all our dirty laundry in public and pile on a man when he's going through rough times.

I'm getting sick and tired of the in fighting in the red pill. We've got enough enemies to worry about as it is. First the threats against Spandrell, now the character assassination of Roosh from Rollo and Xsplat. Ironically Xsplat also just lambasted Rollo. At times, including recently, I have been guilty of stepping over the line and I know how difficult it can be to reign in the urge. Especially when your soap box gets bigger. But there's no need to turn against each other and incite factionalism. If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. Vox and Milo can put their differences aside and find common ground, we should too.

If you're a patron of Rollo's work, and you've felt he's been unfair, I encourage you to reach out to him and let your thoughts be known. I'll be doing that shortly.

[Lothario]

I can not find the post by Quintus Curtius but here is the jist of what QC wrote during the Montreal debacle. I have heard him say this in person which beats the written words by a mile.

"You can keep on writing 4000 word turgid posts complaining on girls attitude in USA and how night game is dead. Get on the train of Neomasculinity or move out of the way"

I totally second what QC said and it's best if you guys can listen to QC say this in person, the passion, the emotion he says it with .......

[Panokko]

I am of the impression that this so-called beef between Roosh and Rollo is much ado about nothing: except for the Rooshes choice to go for monetization of his ideas through his books, websites and his speaking tour ("sell out") and Rollo (perhaps unfairly) calling him out on that, there's is very little difference in philosophy regarding the relationship between the sexes.
Rollo might be seen as a 'Red Pill purist' and Roosh has explicitly added a sociopolitical dimension to what are essentially the same red pill truths ('Red Pill plus') and labeled it neomasculinity.

I think Rollo might feel that Roosh broke the first rule of fight club....
I guess he thinks that bringing attention to Red Pill Truths somehow detracts from these truths. Truth is truth, whether given attention or not.

Someone under the name of Rollo Tomasi posted in one of the threads before the meetups, warning about a protest in San Francisco. I cannot seem to find the post anymore; it might have been removed.
That means that Rollo is at least on some level on the side of the people of the RooshV forums.

Take care

[therealpoder]

I lost interest in The Rational Male's work long ago. It was interesting at first but how many articles can you write about hypergamy, feminist imperative and sexual market place value?

I don't see anything wrong with Roosh advertising the meet up on websites. How will people know about it if he doesn't announce it? What better place to announce it than on his blog and return of kings website? There are people who don't read this forum but are read those sites and would be open to attending.

And what's wrong with monetize his information? Intellectual work is work and one should get paid for it. If his readers don't find value in it, they won't pay for it. Simple. Free market Econ 101.

[debeguiled]

Doesn't Rollo work in liquor promotions? Doesn't he have to lay low a little to protect his livelihood?

Wouldn't he on some level love to be able to ask a reporter if he lifts and post it on Youtube?

He is a smart guy, as are some of his commenters, but with all of the recent events, like the eruption of the hysteriasphere a minute ago, and the Battle of Canada, compared to that level of direct action in real life, doesn't it just make him and all his readers internet warriors in comparison?

It kinda seems like Rollo's attitude is the public relations equivalent of the pointy elbows syndrome.

Roosh just dropped a Mentos in the media Coke bottle. Rollo didn't.

Wouldn't he just dismiss this whole thread as fanboy irrelevance?

Of course he would. Whatever. Works for me.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(02-09-2016 11:40 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

He said that I was a sell out for creating neomasculinity.

Then he partners with Christian McQueen.

His behavior can be seen as a man fighting for relevancy.

I was keeping an eye on his twitter feed during the Battle of the Meetups. He was being his usual passive aggressive self. When the redpill subreddit split with Roosh he sided with them. I've tuned out since then. His game advice is weak, as its all theoretical.

He also insinuated (as did many of our detractors) that Roosh was organizing some publicity stunt, which is beyond asinine. That line of thinking shows a lack of personal experience in life. Who in their right mind would actually believe that this meetup "was all a stunt" for PR purposes? Sure, it did result in more exposure for Roosh, but that would indicate Roosh would intentionally put not only his followers, but his family in harms way.

I can't stand it when people witness a chain of random events, and come to the conclusion that "it was all planned". The world is more complicated than one overarching force controlling everything. Most of what happens in life is a series of somewhat random, unpredictable, chaotic events. Believe it or not, life is not like Metal Gear Solid. Not everything is a grand conspiracy. Not everything is planned. Sometimes shit just happens.


As Roosh said, it appears he is struggling to retain relevance. His weak game advice has hit the ceiling and the only way he can keep his audience's ear is by attacking someone who does his job better than he could ever dream.

[Deepdiver]

I always find that the person or people accusing another person of being a "sellout" are disingenuous for criticizing others for being good at branding, marketing, promotion and a bit of showmanship and controversy - all necessary for monetization in today's biased major media and short attention span spastic social media environment... I find the accusers motivations to be suspect unless you go full off the grid primitive and live in the woods in a log cabin and hunt, fish and forage to subsist - with no electricity or internet you still need MONEY for Honey, Jingle to Mingle, Finance for Romance and cash to smash!

[Tex]

Take this dude with a grain of salt now. He used to be important. The irrelevance is killing him.



If he wants to spin it to sound like Roosh was actively promoting a bunch of "rape rallies" to get media attention, then let him. Maybe Jezebel will even hit him with a job offer.

[Ingocnito]

C'MON GUYS! Does anyone here really think Roosh planned a worldwide meet-up and somehow intentionally planted a seed within the feminist ranks to dig up a year-old article on rape calling everyone rapists now?!? That's VERY VERY far fetched, risky. Plus, as stated, he cancelled the meetings.

Woman or man, watch the actions, not the words... even if "words" is how you make your living. Roosh's actions still tell the truth of what he's about. I'm undeterred by Rollo's indifferences with Roosh. Yet, there is definitely some really good stuff both men supply to the manosphere. That, I don't see changing.

I've said a few times before (recently), the greatest part of what Roosh accomplished in attempts to organize the worldwide meet up (which sounds like a handful were successful anyways), is:
1) It flushed out just how crazy and intertwined the click-bait trigger worded media and masses have become over SJW imperative. So NOW we have an accurate gauge of where things stand in action.
2) It provides a much clearer strategy for men, readers of RVF and ROK, to build upon going forward.
3) It accelerated the idiocy of feminists, SJWs, which IMHO, means were closer to a tipping point in change, which will be increasingly more in favor of men.

So again Roosh, thanks for doing so. I watched his video response press conference with a girl last night, and despite her disagreements with some of what is taught here (mainly how to pick up chicks, no surprise in her own quest for self-preservation in the SMP), she wholeheartedly agreed this is absolutely insanity what he, and others here have had to endure.. spanning governments, and local communities versus an organized mob. Her words:"Well he's right, these idiots just made him famous, this world is so fucked up."

[PolymathGuru]

(02-09-2016 11:40 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

He said that I was a sell out for creating neomasculinity.

Then he partners with Christian McQueen.

His behavior can be seen as a man fighting for relevancy.

Then again we are fighting for relevancy as well. We are a minority among civilization. Although it through classical male identity we try to save ourselves, we are understand our forefather's knowledge is not enough to save us in the modern era. Hence, the need for neomasculinity. An expansion on the classical male identity.

I would gamble the problem with Rollo is he attached to a series of ideas. He refuses to prune the deadwood and branches to reshape one's growth.

[Tex]

(02-09-2016 02:26 PM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  

Then again we are fighting for relevancy as well. We are a minority among civilization. Although it through classical male identity we try to save ourselves, we are understand our forefather's knowledge is not enough to save us in the modern era. Hence, the need for neomasculinity. An expansion on the classical male identity.

If you're a threat to the order of things, you're always relevant. That's why Rollo brings up Roosh, the establishment brings up Roosh, Dr. Oz and miscellaneous fatties bring up Roosh.

Rollo is a forgotten masculinist philosopher caught in an awkward relationship with a playboy charicature in McQueen.

All for what we don't even need. We've got it in excess. We don't need to do anything special. Our existence is threat enough.

[Hannibal]

Sounds like he's projecting.

He accuses Roosh of stirring up controversy to make a buck, so he stirs up controversy within the manosphere to make a buck.

[Putin Closes]

Its clear some guys want notoriety, sounds like nothing but jelly. Roosh now is by far the indisputable king of Red Pill in terms of "brand recognition".

[el mechanico]

Quote:

Then he partners with Christian McQueen.

   

[Hades]

The root of argument here is the radical vs. the moderate. Rollo is a moderate. Roosh has been painted as a radical. Moderates tend to shit all over radicals, even if they agree with 80+% of their ideas, because they want change to happen very slowly. The narrative itself is like an enormous pendulum that has so much inertia that it's unstoppable in the short term. Look at the liberal media, for instance. That took at least two generations of hippies infiltrating academia and graduating classes of uber-liberal marxist journalists - they were "fighting the establishment" one day and a few decades later were entrenched establishment.

What they don't understand is that the slow and creeping change comes due to the radicals swinging the narrative, with moderates sort of hopping along for the ride. Low risk, low reward. If Rollo were a rational male, he'd see this and could both disagree with the method but recognize that he and his ideas were benefitting from the result.

I also had no idea that Rollo Tomassi paired up with McQueen. That's pretty hilarious.

Some of the posts here also miss the point.
Even if the meetups were a publicity stunt, so what? Best case scenario, we would have all benefitted. That's a pretty serious opportunity to network and be among the like-minded. The risk ended up being too great, as feminists and their minions extricated themselves from Netflix to sit in the cold and protest nightclubs.

"The Independent" and "The Daily Beast" bemoaned how easily manipulated RVFers were. Shitheads, the lot of them. What does "neomasculinity" seriously cost you? 10-50 dollars over a period of years? I pay more than that on a monthly power bill and don't feel particularly oppressed about it.

Granted, in practice it caused a shit storm and blowback. 15 minutes of notoriety isn't going to kill off the message, though, and the ideas generated and supported here are generally far off enough from the mainstream that this is the only way it could generate exposure. The Rational Male isn't going to make Oprah's book club.

Rollo Tomassi's stuff is more suited to a Men's Studies department, where people debate the intersectionality of the male experience and how men are oppressed to the benefit of women. There's a time and a place for that but it's going to be a long while.

[Jones]

(02-09-2016 01:57 PM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

C'MON GUYS! Does anyone here really think Roosh planned a worldwide meet-up and somehow intentionally planted a seed within the feminist ranks to dig up a year-old article on rape calling everyone rapists now?!? That's VERY VERY far fetched, risky. Plus, as stated, he cancelled the meetings.

Woman or man, watch the actions, not the words... even if "words" is how you make your living. Roosh's actions still tell the truth of what he's about. I'm undeterred by Rollo's indifferences with Roosh. Yet, there is definitely some really good stuff both men supply to the manosphere. That, I don't see changing.

I've said a few times before (recently), the greatest part of what Roosh accomplished in attempts to organize the worldwide meet up (which sounds like a handful were successful anyways), is:
1) It flushed out just how crazy and intertwined the click-bait trigger worded media and masses have become over SJW imperative. So NOW we have an accurate gauge of where things stand in action.
2) It provides a much clearer strategy for men, readers of RVF and ROK, to build upon going forward.
3) It accelerated the idiocy of feminists, SJWs, which IMHO, means were closer to a tipping point in change, which will be increasingly more in favor of men.

The meetings had to be cancelled, yes. The responsibility got enormous for one man to take; however, taking risks is part of succeeding in life and I think Roosh has set a great example on how to build a following as per the forum and with ROK, and picking your spots on when to take those risks. I have all the respect in the world for him in putting himself out there.

Your second point is the most important I think, for everyone else here. Meetups still need to happen, but the planning needs to be better, safer, more secure in it's arrangement, and globally sporadic. We can have meet ups in one city planned for a certain week, then follow up with meet ups in other cities. A "blitz", as this ordeal was to our opponents, works best when the enemy is least suspecting it and is unprepared.

I respect both men's perspectives, Rollo and Roosh. Like you mentioned, both have a lot of value to bring to men in the manosphere.

As per the rape article, they used it against him in Montreal the past summer, so that should not come as part of a surprise that it was wielded by them once again on a larger scale. It was fantastic to follow this saga, and we here have no doubt learned a lot from it.

[BortimusPrime]

Eh, it's just internet call out culture. The main attention-generators like Roosh will do something that draws in a wide audience, then you have a wide group of youtubers and bloggers that try to leech off that attention by responding. If they're critical, they themselves generate call outs by yet more youtubers and bloggers, generating a feedback loop of increasingly petty disagreements made for the sole purpose of getting clicks.

[doc holliday]

This Rollo dude sounds more like an irrational female than a rational male. It's pure jealousy, plain and simple. His crying over Roosh monetizing his ideas is something some Bernie Sanders loving feminazi would say. Fact is that most guys including manosphere writers like Rollo behave like women, throwing people under the bus that they should be supporting instead, all because they can't control their petty emotions.

As has been said here, Rollo's writing sucks. He takes a subject that is filled with emotion and passion and makes it read like an intro to Organic Chemistry textbook. Notice how the guys who aren't anonymous like Roosh, Vox and Mike along with all of us here who still met up inspite of being under tremendous pressure are courageously leading this fight but the anonymous cowards like Rollo, Heartiste etc want to undermine us for the sake their own fragile egos.

To Rollo, the AVFM people and the rest of these cowards I have this to say- help out or shut up and get the fuck out of the way.

[Benoit]

Very disappointing post by RT. It's just so uncharitable.

Rollo could have tried to see things from Roosh's point of view, but instead he twists and distorts everything. Only his analytical mind can save lost men from being lead astray by the cartoon villain Roosh he's created.

And he has the nerve to criticise self-promotion, while building up his following of enlightened men who will tell him how great he is.