[Taco Illusionist]

Dante's Option: Taking control of the situation.

Hank's Option: Letting the situation control you.

I admire Hank a great deal and find his musings insightful, but the more 'Alpha' course of action here is pretty clear cut to me.

[CleanSlate]

Maybe a better way to handle this is to cockblock him. With tact, of course.

Introduce yourself and pepper him with the standard get to know you questions to maintain control of the conversation.

When it starts to run out of gas, say something like "my girl and I are gonna go get a drink, nice meeting you buddy" or something, put your arm around her and guide her away.

The timing has to be right, of course.

[Thrill Jackson]

I remember back in the day when I worked at a restaurant I would have the most solid frame with these waitresses, and I didn't even know what the fuck frame was. I just remembered reading John Alexander's how to be a Alpha Male, and I always tried to have an"strong reality". What I would do is whenever these bitches started I would introduce bmyself and be friendly bto them the first day or two. From that point l, O only communicated with them if I led them, (telling them of they did something wrong or answering any questions they had). Otherwise, I never spoke, I did this to come off as being the prize and boy did it work.These bitches were vouching for my attention, (throwing tables on the ground and then bending over right next to me, eye fucking me, asking me for help and asking questions, etc.) Man, but hour boy had no real game or logistics back in the day. I stayed in a small town even if I didn't, I had no idea what to do besides appear alpha.I just laugh now thought, because frame is just one component of many others to be successful with women.

[birthday cat]

I've said this before and I'm saying it again. On this forum and in life in general - it is important to understand the perspective of the person you are reading or listening to. HankMoody has read a lot of the older Heartiste/Roissy blog. I've read and learned a lot from that blog as well. But Heartiste's understanding of game is limited to the Washington D.C. area which is not a good representation of the rest of the world and Heartiste can be quite negative. Heartiste has even said in his blog that there are positive and negative aspects about women and he writes almost exclusively about the negative aspects of women because our culture only focuses on the positive.

If you take Heartiste's advice very literally then you are going to fail in a lot of situations that don't involve a bitchy careerist western woman. However, if you understand Heartiste's perspective then you will know when to relax a little with the hardcore alpha posturing. I know this because I've failed in a lot of situations with girls outside of western culture because I was following Heartiste's advice too closely.

This original post in this thread is a good example. Hank might have been successful in this situation but I think the more experienced forum members have shown that the situation could have been handled before it ever happened or while it was happening. The hardcore alpha posturing of leaving the girl wasn't the ideal solution.

Heartiste also talks a lot about being aloof and "amused mastery" which I think would have been a better approach. Heartiste would probably suggest something different like making friends with the guys and telling them how to game the girl. Example - if they are talking about food then tell the guys her favorite food is sushi and something like "you should tell her you will take her out for sushi and ask her for her phone number".

[AneroidOcean]

(01-08-2016 05:10 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

No Aneroid, having a different perspective is not the same as not understanding the issue. I have never wrote or suggested that the root of the problem was in them. I wrote that the situation with them had to be dealed, and not passively like OP did. Of course the root of the problem is in her behaviour, and why a girl after a night of great sex and consequent release of serotonin, and still in her early hours of the day while having a brunch in broad daylight in the outside part of the place, has to fuck up big time, letting 2 guys seat right with her chatting, this all, while her man went inside to pick up some cocktails. Strange, right? Or did I missed something? Maybe is not just the girl that it is the root of the problem, it can be also the OP behaviour to her previously.
That is why I asked if the OP could clarify what kind of relationship do they have, wich is still unanswered. It is not the same situation if we are talking about a LTR or any other day spinning plate.
Tough, and feeling that the most important part is still unanswered, I gave a pratical advice on how to deal with the situation, wheter it was a LTR, a spinning plate, or just a plain friend. On the opposite, what I see more in this thread is a lot of excessive game theory (also some good advice e.g. Dantes), for a situation that has to be dealt no matter what. If you go, you go for good. This is just a mess, the guy stands 30 minutes of humilliation, then leaves to meet another girl that after a while he leaves for the one who hummiliated him, that for some magic reason and 2 or 3 badly typed messages is still with him without any further problems whatsoever. I was trying to contain myself to write this, but I feel that something is missing here, have doubts has to what realm this belongs to, and I will not jump in the same bandwagon as you. Also it offers some really bad advice to new guys, in my vision this is a borderline cuck behaviour.

I believe I misunderstood your comments. I'm assuming English isn't your first language. When I initially read your comment I understood that you were referring to the guys being the problem and that the guys were the root of the problem when I feel very strongly that her behavior was the root of the problem. Certainly it's possible that HankMoody didn't set his frame strong enough from the beginning. I agree that 25 minutes is a long time to wait, but not if you're otherwise enjoying yourself or doing other things.

Also, she did reach out to him and touch him, but she didn't catch that it was such a big deal and I think the biggest problem. Her behavior was a big problem, but you're right, he never made it clear that these guys were not going to be able to hit on his girl. With this he could've done better, and it's likely that you're example would've worked just fine.

However, his choices from that point forward as well as his text game were damn strong.

This isn't so much about him doing things perfectly, but in analyzing the situation and ultimately taking action that resulted in the best outcome (him not wasting his time with her anymore or her ending the behavior permanently in order to continue seeing/fucking him).

I've failed to interject myself on more than one occasion with the result being the girl I'm dating coming over and saying "why didn't you rescue me?" with me only giving a smirk and a firm smack on the ass and them trying to give me a disapproving look but not being able to hide the smile immediately beneath it and the guy(s) that were talking to her unable to hide the look of disappointment on their faces.

[Rocha]

^^ There is no such thing as a guideline for these kind of situations. Each one is a different one, depending on the persons involved and their kind of relationship. I think that there is no need to come guns ablazing to the table, but if in those few seconds after your arrival, no one and specially her is not giving a single damn about you, then it is time to act and make your presence be felt, in order to really keep frame and control of the situation. This has nothing to do with topics like abundance mentality or wasting time with strangers or damaged girls. It is all about yourself and your self respect. It is an unconfortable situation to deal, more so if you think that everything is going perfect after a wonderful night, a first date and there was already some makeout or good connection, or your LTR who never did anything similar before. But it has to be done, and it is no big deal. There are things that you see in the body language, I bet the girl you failed to interject was not very comfortable in the situation talking to the other guys, and if it is so, you did the right thing, waiting for her to get rid of them, or giving you the chance to do it. That was not what happened in the OP story. Of course all of this come with experience and interactions with women, and beeing in these kind of situations on both sides. The side of the guy who hits a girl without knowing she is with a guy and the side of the guy whose girl gets hit on. No need to be a watchdog, just confident, self respectful and not taking shit from others. That was not what happened in OP story.

@Hank

Have you considered doing some Martial arts training?

Note: yes, english is not my native language, and this forum is beeing really helpful in improving my english writing skills.

[kaotic]

I was reading this thread again and couldn't help but agree and comment on BB's post which is absolutely a necessity nowadays.

(01-10-2016 03:05 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Anyhow, I see some guys in this thread saying they don't want to deal with talking to guys they don't know, etc. I don't know - I think that's extremely reductionist thinking. You don't have to give the guy a sermon, but some basic socializing isn't going to kill you.

Again, there's no one way about it, but our civilization is tied together with social dynamics and knowing how to work a crowd, or banter with approaching guys, is something a modern man should know how to do. As myself and a few others have said, you can't vacate the premises every time some guy tries to elbow in.

If you don't want to bother talking with other people, don't take her out in public - take her to your house. We're not living in caves and glaring away sexual competition with the threat of violence anymore - violence can happen still, and I personally believe that sometimes it should, but mostly it's our social skills that prevail, so it's not a weakness to blab at your competitors. It's a skill.

Beyond you're absolutely right, it's the elephant in the room with this conversation. Having social skill is an important tool in the modern man's bag.

You need to be able to work a room, hell even strike up a convo with random strangers, short or long convos. A woman who witnesses a guy whose a smooth operator in a social environment, will have her gina tingling.

I've had girls directly talk to my ex, I had no problem jumping in the convo and steering it towards myself and taking over.

Like Clean Slate said, bitches that are hot will always have dudes hit on them, regardless if you're there or not. You have to know how to deal with that shit period.

Quote:

Anyhow, I've found a lot of guys respect me for having good looking girls on my arm and also respect me for having the ability to banter with them. But if I didn't have both those things together, I doubt I'd command the same kind of respect - a guy with hot women who builds a shell between himself and the rest of the world, on the other hand, just invites guys to try harder as soon as they get a chance because they resent him and have no reason not to.

Bingo, there's NOTHING like that feeling of being able to command a convo with a hottie by your side. I've been complimented by people I barely know or strangers for my old LTR, and then they'd start a convo. My girl would be quiet or doing her own thing while I talked to the dude, shook their hand, and they bounced or I turned my back.

Quote:

There will always be some guys that are different, but the fastest way to bridge a gap between yourself and most people in the modern world is to show them you're human.

Interestingly enough, the ability to banter well and juggle the dynamics with other men around you commands respect from women too, so you win on all fronts.

If you're not comfortable shooting the shit with other men, I recommend going out of your way to befriend some masculine guys and getting a bit of practice with it.

Exactly that ability and skill to socialize can benefit on so many fronts. Regardless if you have a bitch with you or not.

Put yourself out there, start talking to anyone. I tend to think I'm a great story teller, I definitely have some clown and asshole game I use when talking to a group.

I love being in a mixed group of friend and acquaintances, because I have a no BS and honest point of view about the world and topics, some of the shit I say is laughable and somewhat offensive but produces a conversation about it.

I agree Beyond - start hanging out with dudes you see as players, alpha's, socialites, dudes like that.

I was a complete introvert until late high school years, it wasn't until 19/20 when I hungout around cats that were CONSTANTLY ball busting and shit talking - you grow up fast and start being quick with comebacks, stories, rambling.

This was absolutely detrimental to how I socialize today, I don't know where I'd be without those guys.

You also need to be ADAPTABLE to the social situation as well, know when to turn it up or down, how to guide the situation and make it work for you.

Put yourself out there, start rubbing elbows with people, start watching what good story tellers, jokesters, and all around sociable people do.

[spygoat]

Really this has been a great thread. And as many have pointed out, without all of the past details of their interactions together we don't really know the exact way to respond; truthfully, there is almost always more than one way to handle a situation.

IMO I'm leaning on siding with the 'improvise and socialize crowd'. Most times I've seen situations like this occur whether it has been myself hitting on a broad or a guy hitting on my girl a few things to consider.

1) Game recognize game - if the guy hitting on your girl (or you are the guy) 9 times out of 10 there will be mutual respect between the men. This will only occur if you handle the situation as a man. Introduce yourself, bullshit a bit, if they are aussies make some crack about how you heard all they knew how to do was drink and surf or something stupid like that. Essentially you are defusing the situation and asserting your position as the alpha male without any physical violence. If they are any type of guy (like ourselves) who knows how to pick up a girl they will recognize you as A) A beauty and B) a guy who gets pussy and they know to find scraps elsewhere and bounce and move on to the next slut.

If they have no game, it will quickly become apparent after you assert your dominance and they will bounce anyway and your girl will be in throatzilla mode 5 minutes later because you're the man.

2) If you pull chute every time your girl disrespects you (or you feel that she's disrespecting you) you are either setting the wrong frame in the relationship with her or you are not accepting women for who they are and what they do and getting butthurt over it. Watch what women do, not what they say! And as the other boys said, women are illogical, irrational, and react to how things make them feel as to how things actually look. She probably felt good getting hit on by two guys at the same time, didn't realize how it looked to you because she's a woman. Its how they tick.

3) Always remember you are the boss. If some guys approach your girl and are hitting on her and she isn't giving you the time of day, fuck it. You landed her first, she's with you, unless she is scum of the earth she is likely going nowhere with them. While I wouldn't approve of a woman having a half hour flirt fest with two guys, getting upset internally only screams insecurity to me. You got to know that you're the man. Who's the man? I'm the fuckin man. And in doing so, being the man, we circumvent back to point 1 where if you were being the man you would have snipped these guys after about 2 minutes of convo, met some new friends or sent them packing for other pussy.

Hanks Method

Hanks method invoked the power of abundance, not giving a fuck, and scarcity mentality. Sometimes you have to rattle the dogs chain for it to remember who is boss. I applaud him for his execution.

I will agree with a few other posters in that if I was in the situation where I had to up and leave the girl that even if she texted, begging to come over you gotta hold her off a while longer. Letting her come over a few minutes after apologizing gives her all the power back......and I hate to say it, makes you look a little dramatic in your exit strategy. Bold works but you can't switch it on and off all the time. If you're going to be bold, be fucking bold. No other strategy with a woman will work wonders with her when she knows she won't be able to get away with shit.

Excellent commentary by all.

[Deepdiver]

I applaud Hank's frame and self respect to just get up and do what he wanted and leave her in her own little world with her Oz orbiters - she was behaving like Hank was her beta provider and drinks waiter and he hard stopped with an excellent attitude correction with no drama - just exit stage left and next.

I now make it known that mutual respect is my guiding principle and have in fact dumped a large number of Mrs candidates for failing the 5 Sicilian tests - love, honor, respect, loyalty and fidelity...

Like building blocks to a lifetime relationship they each build upon the previous block in order.

The respect block is the first real biggie... I am so hard on this now that if we are together and I mute my phone - in front of them in the beginning to set expectations ... if they start taking out their phone and texting or worse posting to faceyspace - I will pay the bill and walk out and NEXT and delete their numbers.

Of course they have to show you love and honor your wishes as the Alpha Lion of your pride. Then loyalty - they are part of your pride and on your team - no winking or giving numbers or rooting for players (men) on the other team. Then fidelity is the deal breaker - If they decide to go out with the girls when you want to do something else or worse go on a vacation with their girls to to the Cape or Hamptons for a weekend or worse for a week in Hawaii and come back knocked up (Yes happened to me with a school teacher who wanted to marry me) needless to say unfaithfulness is a total deal breaker. I was immediately working rotation that week and got at least two other bangs in while she was on her tropical phuck fest in paradise. I never proposed and found other ladies to add to rotation.

So in my personal opinion any disrespect needs to be firmly nipped in the bud. Get up walk away and NEXT.

In all things in life and any negotiations in business or romantic relations you give up all your power the minute you are not willing to get up and walk away.

[xmlenigma]

(01-04-2016 08:02 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

From Heartiste: "The more women you reject, the more women will sense your radiating power to inflict pain and loss and subsequently want you. Buttress your inner game by being choosy, and rejecting freely."

I love the walkout. It's almost guaranteed to get the chick scrambling to win back your favor.

I've used it a couple times in my LTR when it was warranted. Even if I was in the wrong I could walk out and eventually she would be blaming herself and begging me to come back.

You can also do a reverse walkout if your chick is acting up. Tell her to leave. I did this to my chick once and she returned with a bouquet of flowers for me.

Reminder! Reminder! use it.

[RatInTheWoods]

This is a great thread.

Shows the nuances of game and frame.

[Jack_Smith]

(01-09-2016 05:27 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Frame is Game.

And the name of the game is Your Happiness.

Meaning that anytime a female does something to make you unhappy, then your response has to be to hold frame (outcome independence). Hank's willingness to walk away is his game. The girl was compelled to respond because she now felt the pressure of losing something valuable. Whether or not she came running back was irrelevant to Hank, all that mattered was his happiness.

When women know they have no power to affect a man's happiness that's when they respond because now they know they've found an alpha, a valuable man. Hank showed her this when he casually walked away without a second thought. Having this level of frame is almost bittersweet because you lose the sense of indulgence from getting hot girls, but that's all ego anyways.

Frame is about defeating the ego and every man owes it to himself to reach this level because nothing is more important than the ability to dictate your own happiness. When a man can do this, when he is stronger than the body, no female can upset him.

Money.

[MaceTyrell]

To this day frame is the only game-related thing I get. Perhaps it's the most important.

Happy this thread got resurrected, it's helpful.

[Steelex]

If I were in his shoes I wouldn't have taken her back after that. You've still permanently lowered your value. That's not a dynamic I would like.

If your girl pulls this shit on you, the real problem is a lack of fear for her own well being.

Sometimes you have to give her a little sample of just how bad your unbridled anger can be.